This is a terrible way to do space battles though, why does everything need to be point blank to hit anything? Why do almost all ships fire via iron sights? Why don't their torps not track targets and move to hit them? Everything about this suggests that Trek tech is terribly weak and pathetic. Why go into atmo and get within a hundred metres to shoot at a target on a planet? Orbital Bombardment is a thing, or at least it should be.
The story, the setting, the battles all of it was way ahead of it's time, and every time I look at these space battles all I can think about is how much more incredible they can look with today's CGI and or animators
Man the models shot with motion control hold up way better than those later CGI models. Look at the Klingon attack on ds9. Shot with tons of off the shelf kits and studio models. That's art! When sacrifice of the angels came along it was all in the computer. Models dont age . CG does. I know CG is way cheaper and less time consuming. But the old school way is just timeless.
same happened with TOS, TNG and DS9/voyager remasters. there's a reason DS9/voyager never got remasters while TOS got a stellar one and TNG had a lot of manual work needed to get the quality high enough. momentum and "impulse" forces in trek have always had some "interesting" results onn-screen.
K'Tinga class cruisers seem to have had many different weapon configurations throughout the various series. They fire disruptors from the nacelles, they fire disruptors from the wing shoulders, they launch torpedos from the front port, they fire disruptors from the front port.....
Gotta hand it to the Klingon Warbirds. They are designed for space and planet attack runs. That's not something you see in the federation. The runabout is the closest, but it's not built for battle like the Warbird.
That's because when you have space superiority, you don't need to make planetary strafing runs. You inform people on the ground that you're beaming down occupation forces and anyone who objects can file a complaint with the ships in orbit that have the capability of pinpointing anything the size of a vehicle with an anti-ship phaser. Klingon combat doctrine favours raids and suppression tactics; Starfleet thinks both of those have entirely too high a collateral civilian damage ratio to be acceptable.
@@martindevon3204 this and when you have a heavy investment in phasers/shields/crew-preservation and a ban on cloaking, unguided projectiles mounted on small/cheap mass production swarm/packhunter ships is one of the last things you would consider. it became a requirement against the dominion due to their willingness to ram large ships and trade 2-3 small ships for a multi-year investment plus crew, plus the insane resource tradeoff but by comparison the klingons were a known factor, in it for the fight and so surrounded by competing factions that they could never raise a large enough standing force without being spotted, countered and outmatched on any given front. The dominion had a slave-force of replaceable quick-grow soldiers, a quadrants worth of resources, several local allies, a vastly more ruthless/rigid system of control and zero hesitancy to sacrifice an entire fleet if it would weaken the foe enough for the follow-up wave to break through. Remember the only reason the feds "won" the dominon war was because space-jesus-sisko had an entire reinforcement fleet put into timeout before they could emerge from the wormhole. no clue why the entire fleet travelled through the wormhole at the same time, that's the tactical equivalent to standing on a bridge with a thousand people and stamping full force in time with each other.
It's always bothered me that that one torpedo turret is just lobbing numerous torpedoes into empty space and they don't appear to be guided or tracking a target at all.
@@martindevon3204 I guess Tim means DS9 firing at 1:46. If torpedoes get disturbed in tracking, I would say they should roam around, not just go straight into empty space.
Imagine having to engage in space combat in a fuckin runabout... That's the equivalent of going into battle today riding on a Segway with a pair of 9mm Glocks duct taped to the handlebar.
There is so much space debris around DS9 from all these battles it's a wonder the station can still function. Ship have to come in to dock with full shields just to avoid hull punctures.
I doubt DS9's gravity is strong enough to require much speed to orbit it. Indeed DS9's 10.1 million metric tons (10.1e9 kg) are only twice that of mean 160 m diameter Dimorphos (5e9 kg), which orbits mean 780 m diameter minor planet Didymos (5e11 kg) at 1 km in 11.9 hour, at 6.283 / 11.9 = 0.528 km/h.
What I don’t understand is why these ship explosions are so small. When a warp core blows the explosion is huge, and you’d expect the same matter/anti-matter reaction to take place when a ship is destroyed by phaser fire, no?
Gotta admire Kira's lady balls taking on 3 Cardassian warships with no weapons and no shields after using 6 photon torpedoes as a fucking warning shot in Emissary. That my kinda terrorist. Also: 0:40 A moment of silence for that B'rel class that took on the ship that was meant to fight and defeat the Borg (With Worf at the trigger). Those warriors are going to Stovokor for sure.
As enjoyable as it was to watch, it seems that many of the ships battles happened on one plane. The battles with DS9 was more on the 3 dimension. Plus DS9 showed the advantages of having torpedo launchers and phasers on a turret. For instance, when the Defiant and the other ship flew under the Klinglon cruiser, they could have easily flipped 180°, keeping their main armaments trained on the underside, whilst letting their momentum carry them forward.
Is it just me or does the size of the Defiance (and the DS9 itself) vary wildly between shots? Sometimes the Jem'Hadar ships and the Defiant are about the same size, sometimes the Defiant is small and nimble enough to fly between the nacelles of a klingon battlecruiser and sometimes she's almost 1/4th the size of the DS9.
The Negh'var of the mirror universe/Regent Worfs Flagship was easily 2-3 times larger the the prime version. And it was mirror defiant fighting the mirror Negh'var in those scenes.
The production changed the look and size of the Defiant many times. So, what you are saying is interesting that you noticed that. I noticed it, as well.
The model, itself change twice, I think. Size is usually depicted 128m in length up through 170m. I know how often the official size is rehashed as the larger, but it is more frequently shown as the smaller. The crazy thing is either could work, depending on the story and internals. One interesting shot is when Enterprise-E shields Defiant and passes by it very closely. It was once intended for the Sovereign class to be larger during production, but was scaled down by the time the actual model was built. Another oddity is the Romulan Drone, a refit Warbird, supposedly barely larger than a Runabout, but Tucker and Reed spent a great deal of time going between compartments strongly suggesting a far larger vessel, though still on the scout ship scale. The BOP, well that is a Pandora's box. The Jem'hadar attack ship is a can of gagh. Just about every single Cardassian warship is as big as it wants to be that day. The Nebula class explorer was initially planned to be a modest-sized frigate, more or less like the New Orleans, which has strikingly similar components. Ben Maxwell, captain of the Phoenix, once commanded the Rutledge, a New Orleans class.
I was gonna say I wish you had put all the scenes in order but I appreciate you putting the same themes together, don’t know if it was deliberately done but I appreciate it nonetheless
DEEP SPACE IS SO AMAZING !!!!!!! SPECIALLY = SISKO !!!!! HE HAS BALLS !!! HE IS SO = HUMAN !!!!! Brings the best out of us !!! Wish I could CALL HIM = MY FRIEND !!!!
@2:09 -- note the flame rising vertically from the front of the Klingon battle cruiser. That screams, *"STUDIO MODEL"* to me because fire wouldn't rise in a vertical column in space. :-P
@@telephony Not quite. Yes, plasma would expand spherically with no other constraints, but while it's still venting out of a hole in the ship, the primary plume will look very much like a flame spilling out of that hole.
They use a combination of inertial dampeners, structural integrity fields and impulse engines (you can even hear them hum/whoose/whirr during hard maneuvers) to handle the G forces and accelerations necessary. Otherwise, yes they would rip themselves apart trying these kinds of moves at those masses.
Yes, in Season 5's "The Ship." In fact, that same captured ship reappears in the first two episodes of Season 6 when Starfleet sends the DS9 crew on a sabotage mission using the ship they'd captured. The clips in this video from 10:10-10:26 are of that captured ship.
Hahaha The 24th century,all this imaginary advanced technology,and, HALF OF THE TORPEDOES CAN'T HIT A SHIP THAT BARELY MOVES! Only in the Star Trek!☺️🤭😄
The Defiants were powerful ships but they really needed larger ships like the Galaxy, Excelsior and Sovereign class ships to hold the line and lead operations. The Defiant is powerful and agile but not as imposing as those. Now if they had a Prometheus...
@Defiant GTI ECM interference to the torpedoes. If you've ever played the board game "Star Fleet Battles" or the PC RTA version "Star Fleet Command" you'll understand the importance of allocating energy to the ECM/ECCM systems to: (A) jam incoming torpedoes and energy weapons lock ons. (B) to counter the target ship's ECM counter measure attempts to jam your own weapons targeting. A player switches to ECM when incoming is detected and switches to ECCM when firing.
I sure wish Xbox One would come out with a version of the Dominion War CD it would be a great seller I know it would How do you get Xbox to produce a game for you cuz the games they got out now all suck
Because The Klingon's were under the impression that the Cardassian Government had been taken over by The Dominion due to the Central Command being over thrown and a civilian's taking over the Cardassian governement and they decided to Invade Cardassian space star a war with them, the Federation condemned The invasion so in response the Klingons ended their alliance with the Federation and Sisko decided to rescue the new Cardassian government and bring them back to DS9 and that's why the Klingon's were atttacking Ds9.
A: Why didn't the Defiant defend DS9 when the Klingons attacked it? B: Why didn't the Klingons attack the Defiant during their attack? Did everyone just forget that it exsisted during the battle?
this was when they sent the defiant to rescue some cardies and somthing along the lines of it took damage and was docked and had the shields from DS9 over it, Somthing like that
Ah...their lazers only have a 200ft zone range. That's why they are always on top of each other. Also, who needs physics? when u have video pew pew graphic shooting games. Watch B5 if you want (a little) better physics.
@@josephfilm73 It's not even just bad physics. It's also inconsistent power levels. Once the Klingons breached DS9's shields, they should be transporting pieces of the hull or even crewmembers out into space. Even with our primitive 21st century technology, we know that if you ram a ship into DS9 at full impulse, then DS9 would be no more. The Klingon fleet need not even be within 20 AUs away from DS9. Just launch a ton of torpedos, bring shields down, then start hurling asteroids armed with a warp drive to hit DS9 at warp 1. The Romulans use a singularity to power their ships. A singularity. The heart of a black bole. Somehow the Romulans don't believe that their ship's engine is an extremely efficient weapon. Nope. Bad writing. Just awful.
@@zadkiel242 1 simple runabout running at full impulse can easily destroy a planet (I think that is as destructive as the asteroid impact that killed the dinosaurs but even worse because full-impulse may be quarter light-speed which is INCREDIBLY fast). If Star Wars, Star Trek and any other shows have this tactic then we won't have any cool battles, just enjoy the scenes bro. Though I believe a semi-realistic sci-fi show may be quite awesome now that I think about it.
Star Trek space battles are also so mind numbingly bad. Ships that explode with no wreckage, no escape bods. Huge explosions on the hulls that leave no damage whatsoever. Its all so tiresome. Wrath of khan did it probably, there is no excuse for this garbage in the CGI age.
Most of these were done in the pre-cgi era of DS9 which the show had a very limited budget. Wrath of Khan had a movie budget of an estimated $11,200,000, and there were only two ships involved in that battle. And do you know how limited and expensive CGI was back in the 1990's? You act like this was made in the 21st century where tech has advanced considerably and CGI costs have lowered substancially.
@@ValiantWrestling On any other IP I would agree with you 100%. ST is almost 60 years old. yes I know how expensive things were but I also know that ST is a billion dollar property for CBS and paramount, and the reason for that is the loyalty of the fan base who the studio nickel and dime with these flimsy budgets and 2nd rate special effects. Im not looking for cinema quality in a TV show but Copy and pasting the same Flyby's and explosions is just laziness. And they continue to do it, as Picard S1 showed. A Better question is why are you sticking up for them?
@@christopherrobin4619 You might consider reading up on Ds9's severe budget restrictions, especially when it was running alongside TNG. Television CGI was not cheap and DS9's effects were hardly "second rate". Compare it to contemporaries Babylon 5 and Stargate. Ds9's CG/FX were far superior to both. Context, as always, is king. Of course, modern Star Drek has no such excuse for its examples of poor effects. That is simply poor budget/time allocation and inexperienced producers/directors/artists.
@@Acrosurge people like yourself bother me on a fundamental level. Who are you defending here? The multinational studio? The S-tier writers and directors of ST in the 90's ? Why would you do that? The franchise prior to the release of the modern DEI startrek shows. made over 2 Billion for paramount. They rake in a fortune every year from licencing and conventions. Im asking for the IP to be treated seriously and proper investments made. and you are chastising me because I've dared to hold them to a higher standard and say NO? this is not good enough.
