I’m about to trigger some people with this one, lol. What does Steph have to do to pass Magic? Correction: At one point, I mention how Bill Russell was the only player to win 4 straight.... Well, What I should have said was “superstar player outside of that team”, because naturally many of his teammates did as well, and also Steve Kerr. My bad. Carry on.
Nothing to me, even though Curry is my all time favorite player, I just can’t see myself ever putting him over magic IMO Even tho Steph is a legend, Magic was 6’9 that’s insane.
Eh, the league had far less player mobility then, so it was way easier for a few teams to dominate the league. The luxury tax in 2001 was what really forced championship teams to dump talent, unless they could convince key players to take a pay cut.
@fab7an758 yeah it was! Kobe tried to recreate the 1 on 1, in game showdowns of Magic vs MJ, and Magic vs Isaiah. He tried to go one on one against Lebron. All the other players stepped back and gave them the moment and Lebron PASSED THE BALL. Kobe just rolled his eyes in disbelief of what a coward Lebron was. I go back and try to find it on the net but that minute is erased from the game. Lebron probably paid to have it erased! This is why I know Kobe didn't like him. He didn't like chickens that don't want to compete but want to be in the goat conversation. He also knew Bron was a statpadder and superteam builder!
Magic and Bird are actually 2 of the league's biggest What-If's. They both got cut down at the tail end of their prime. Both had PERs in the mid 20s the year they got hit; both made the finals; both were top 2 in MVP voting.
don't think they are what ifs. They reached their peaks they just didn't play as many years as they could have. What ifs are people like d rose who got injured way too early
@stratosm3154 well, the way I meant it, the what-if, is not necessarily how good they could get, but their overall legacy and the knock-on impact for others and in this case the whole NBA story.
Aside from pumping up their overall points, assists, rebounds they aren't really what if's, they retired at the end of their prime and wouldn't do the same things they did in their prime for the years after, no more mvps etc.
@bardol359 We're probably thinking about it different ways. I guess I'm not thinking what they will become, but I am thinking what they would achieve and the influence or butterfly effect on the league. Both were 2nd in MVP voting when they had their injuries/illnesses. Both were 31. Both had been to the Finals immediately prior to injury. Guys like Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, Curry, Jordan, Olajuwon, Kareem, Dr J, Moses and Shaq were all leading stars on title winning teams after that age. Throw in combined what ifs of Bias and Lewis, with a healthy Bird, and maybe Jordan's career never pans out the way it did. But that's pushing it, I know.
here's the thing with that argument, yes curry changed the game fully, but problem is it helped no team to be able to win a chip other than warriors, when talking about games changed, I look at also teams implementing that style to their team and guys game which would prove that style would help them win a chip, and so far no team thats tried to copy curry or warriors have benefitted from it
now with magic's revolution to 6'9 pg guys, or revolutionizing the game with his passing and fast breaks, he elevated a similar team in nuggets adapting that style, and he influenced lebron to run point, and helped jason kidd unlock giannis
@@theonlygoodonehere2259 when you look at how all team take significantly more 3s after 2015 than before it, you can say that it has just become a part of the game. And the Rockets most likely win in 2019 taking it to the extreme if not for the worst cold streak in league history.
@@theonlygoodonehere2259 teams played fast before Showtime, and bigger players may have started learning ball skills because of him but it's not like every team has a 6'7+ PG
As a Curry fan, I think the most painful part is Steph's start to his career plagued with injuries. Would be interesting to see mirror results where Steph blooms late while Magic had to retire early.
Exactly! All these boomers don’t want to admit this point exactly. Also, the years steph played with a teammate similar to Kareem, he went to the finals every year.
Wouldn’t playing the same number of years or games do that for you? Like if they both played say 10 years who did better in those years? Or take whoever played shorter a career and overlay that with the others best years. I don’t know I’m dumb trying to help!
Magic was a point guard when point guards played like point guards but he showed that he could score instead of assist when he had to, Steph is phenomenal but he's a pure scorer more than anything in a positionless era, so it's just not the same thing. But Magic is still the best PG of all time and a top 5 of all time in general imo.
yes, yes and YES! it is hard to call steph a point guard. nothing to take away from his greatness, but in a positionless era it has to be acknowledged that he is NOT a point guard.
Just because in their offense he doesn't play like that, because he's better off ball is just obvious, doesn't mean he can't run an offense. We've seen Curry lead the playoffs in assists, it's not loke he can't play a traditional role. He's just better as a scorer
I hate the dumb argument of he could do it if he wanted to. He didn’t score consistently so him having good scoring games doesn’t mean he could’ve been a good scorer
@@uncivilwaterboy0788 he even said himself he only development an outside shot so people couldn't play off him and gum up the offense. His mind was never on scoring
I agree. Magic is #1. Saw him play and was astounded on how quick he was for his size. I would say that the fast break offense led by Magic was the fastest that I have ever seen from rebound to score. Great show by the way. Glad to have subscribed. Steve
@@p1xelmissile Curry is much more effective on offence ESPECIALLY in a half court setting. And they are both Medicore defensively. If anything Curry is a better ON Ball defender than Magic. So how is Magic better?!!!
Magic & Bird changed the game from this perspective: They could look at a game & say “What does my team need from me tonight to win?” Points, rebounds, assists? That is their impact & legacy
This is precisely why bird and magic are grossly underrated. We didnt even see all they were capable of when it came to their health and they STILL dominated
It's a hard comparison between Magic and Steph because their playstyles are completely different. Each brings something unique and elite to the court . If I want a guy who can shoot from anywhere at anytime, I'm going with Steph. If I want a guy who can fulfill whatever is needed on the court to win, I'm going with Magic. On top of that, I don't see Steph as PG, he's a guard in a league that's increasingly position-less. Magic is a PG, no doubt.
Magic as a player just gives you more. On one hand you have a guy called a point guard but can play any position. On the other hand you have a guy called a point guard but isn’t good at it’s traditional value and really plays like a shooting guard. Even as a shooting guard he’s not a top 5 shooting guard ever. I’m taking the first guy.
I'm sooooo glad he's back! I was seriously sad when he stopped years ago, but I understood. His video on the early years of NBA History is still one of the best I've ever seen
The only reason curry is considered better than magic is because he is the best shooter ever, but I think magic is still better than curry at most things
@@franagustin3094 he's not a better ball handler 🤣🤣 iq either maybe towards passing thats it . However you just call that playmaking like I said. Currys 3pt shot is so good it amplify's his ball handling to elite of the elite . Aint no one worried about magic popping a three bruh
@@franagustin3094 also curry is a pretty good rebounder 6 a game ain't bad for 6'3 . Also magics 6'8 if you getting more rebounds than a 6'3 player you ass
Look both of them are great in their own way. During Magic’s era we didn’t see 6’9” PG’s run the floor after getting the rebound, getting their teammates involved by dishing out tons of assists, and making their teammates better. Magic was the first at his position to do that. Steph changed the game with his shooting ability and how shooting as a whole is viewed in the NBA. Different eras and different play styles. I don’t necessarily would choose who’s better. Both are great in their own way. Just appreciate the way they played the game.
I have always wondered how Magic's career would have turned out if he didn't retire early in 1991, and how the rest of the NBA would have been different. At that time in 1990 and 1991, the Lakers already seemed old and slow. The media even called them "slow mo" or something like that, because Magic and the Lakers were slowing the tempo down to beat opponents, whereas a few years earlier in 1988 or so, they were this high octane run and gun showtime team. Magic would have needed another superstar. He still had Byron Scott, A.C. Green, Sam Perkins and the real star of James Worthy, but Worthy was getting older himself, almost 10 years in the league. I had always imagined if Magic never retired, the Lakers might have made a push to recruit Hakeem Olajuwon as Hakeem and the Rockets were having a feud in 1992 and the Rockets nearly traded Hakeem. They eventually made up and won 2 championships together, but if Magic was still in the league and in need of a superstar, you can bet him and Jerry West would have angled the Rockets for Hakeem, probably dealing both James Worthy and Sam Perkins. But it might have been worth it for the Lakers, as Hakeem was at the peak of his dominance in that part of the 90s.
Hakeem and the Lakers would have been lethal. People like the idiot who commented above me have no idea how dangerous Magic was. He and Bird were terrifying to play against, but so much fun to watch. I miss the old NBA where players largely stayed together on a team. They float around so much now, it's more about players than teams.
@@gboyce975because the writing was on the wall. If he never got AIDs from the rainbow bars he loves to visit we could be talking about Magic Johnson as a GOAT contender if he continued his winning ways with Worthy.
This is why you have the best NBA content. I'll admit I was a victim of recency bias. I still had magic above Steph but they were very close. This video made me realize the true gap. Agree that Steph could finish above Magic, but not there yet.
Here's the funny thing... If I had to bet my life on it, I would bet that Steph WILL catch Magic. The modern player ages so well, and Steph is showing no signs of slowing down. I think he'll get there, but yeah, he just doesn't have the resume, dominance or accolades that Magic had... yet.
The realest basketball creator on the platform. No bias no stupid hot takes. Just plain out accurate information, and input, alongside the numbers to back it up.
Jonny is the best!!!! but he does have his bias. You can see him get annoyed often when defending old school players or mentality kinda like this video. He seems a bit pissed and wants to defend magic. I think
Steph is absurd as a basketball player, but for me Magic is still unsurpassed. He is everything you want out of a franchise leading PG with his otherworldly playmaking, versatility, heart and unselfishness. I think of Chef as the best "combo guard" in basketball history cause he can equally have a 10-assist game one night and drop 40+ with 8-3PM the next game, plus he's one of the best off-the-ball and catch-n-shoot threats ever. He's just not the type of player you rely on to lead your team as a pass first kind of guard, mostly because Draymond has been tasked with being Golden State's playmaker for his entire time there.
Step isn't even in top 10 playmakers of his own era. He's not good at being a playmaker. He's good at shooting and off the ball movement. If PG as position is considered, I'd argue between Magic and Stockton. Magic has the edge because of the titles, of course, objectively speaking, but even he would put John in front of him as the best true point guard. It's not his fault he didn't have any help for 19 years of his career. Him and Malone played alone all that time, and that's not how you win the ring.
@@bmsuperstar1 The Jazz also had Darrell Griffith and Jeff Malone for a time with K Malone and Stockton, they weren't no slouches. but on the downhill of their careers. Jeff was better in Washington and Griffith was better pre injury.
What I like about Jonny's vids, he still remains respectful to the players and their accomplishments. For me, in the traditional sense of a PG, Magic is the one. Steph is one of the greatest players to play, like you said, "do a top ten list and everyone of them changed the game somehow". Magic is the one, but like you said also, Steph is close.
How did Duncan change basketball. Or Shaq. Or Kobe. Or Hakeem. You see you can't just practice to become Shaq or Hakeem or Kobe or Duncan. They used their physical tools to help them. Curry uses barely of his. So in our mind we think we can practice to become like Curry. We can't become anything like Bron 6 foot 9 230 pounds muscles everywhere jumps like a train. Shaq 7 foot heavy as hell. Strong asf. Duncan 7 foot with amazing basketball iq. Hakeem 7 footer who got footwork of a God. Kobe fast asf and can jump very high. Kareem 7 footer with a shot that no one before or after him has done. Etc. I think Bron somewhat changed basketball with the point forward and positionless basketball. And he def changed the NBA with player empowerment. Mj didn't really change ball.
@@muhammadrajput3502Shaq changed the rims they use to play basketball. Got the zone defence reintroduced and had every team have multiple bigs on the floor to try and contain him. Hakeem had the best post moves ever and is one of rhe first bigs to showcase that they didn't necessarily have tp be brutish to dominate. He was quite influential honestly. Kobe introduced the work ethic and drive and how you didn't have to be very gifted to dominate the game. Also, the Kobe shout will always remain.
@@muhammadrajput3502Michael definitely changed ball. The fadeaway was popularized by him. He was also somebody who showcased just how effective guards as scorers could be. In an era dominated by Bigs he was by far the best scorer. His shoe deals are why everybody has them now. He made basketball popular worldwide and most talented kids we see are there after watching Jordan. He reintroduced flair to basketball. Michael changed the game a lot.
@@samraizshoaib585 work ethic was a big part of the NBA before Kobe's influence. Let's not act like Kobe was the only hardworking superstar. To become an NBA you have to be hardworking that was always known. Almost none of Hakeem's post moves have been able to be replicated because its just not possible. Shaq changing the rims just meant the rims were harder to break it the rims didn't make the rules or how basketball is played different. Shaq did with zone defense I will give you that. But Kobe and Hakeem didn't. Hakeem being from Nigeria didn't mean the game of basketball rules changed or how it was played. You could say Hakeem affected the audience of basketball. There was way more overseas ball players because of Hakeem.
The only thing i disagree with is steph changed the game in a way that was so unbelievanble you couldnt change it more. Shaq being really dominant for 2 seasons isnt the same as changing how players play, defense, offense, capability for as long as the nba goes on
Ironically enough, Shaq led to the less traditional big man and slow post play focused basketball of the last 15 years or so. It was in response to shaq’s dominance that the 04-05 7 seconds or less phoenix suns, who accepted that they couldn’t stop shaq, as so many teams were attempting to do, and built a smaller, pace based line up with Stat at C. It was this team who changed the way the game is played and the pace with which it is played.
-- Steph spreads the floor with his 3pt shooting, not his passing. The rules changed so much. The run-n-gun offense with Nash started the trend on top of rules changes. THEN...Steph started to spam the free flowing offense, defenses were handcuffed more, and boom, Steph crushed it. Steph changed the game, started by Nash and D'Antoni. I prefer Magic over Steph but depending upon who have you on your team, it's also whether you need to spread the offense (w/ Curry) or have a 6'9 PG who can play modern day center (Magic) in switches -- b/c like Jokic, Magic can see over the defense.
@paulscanlan57 I don't think the Suns 7 seconds or less offense was in response to Shaq. And the Suns didn't change the game. They laid a blueprint that the league didn't fully adopt until Steph emerged.
That's such a casual take. Shaq changed how defense is played. Fouling players who can't shoot FTs was due to Shaq dominance, that teams has players just to take fouls because of how dominant Shaq was.
@@laz0rama tf is a true point guard? that’s like saying KAT is not a “true center” bc he shoots 3s. Steph is the height of a PG and distributes that ball like a PG while being a lethal scorer
@@coolwitzayy point guards main job is passing. Lol did you really not know this? Curry is a soso passer, fantastic player, but an average point guard, mainly because he plays as a shooting guard, and does what shooting guards do.
@@coolwitzayy Bruh, BRUH lol it's perhaps time to wake from the 7+ year long snooze. You DO realize that Draymond has been averaging more assists than Steph every year _over the last EIGHT SEASONS, no?_ Steph's primary role is to _SHOOT the friggin' ball_ _Yes, it is indeed possible to play with 2 SGs when your F or C can handle most of the distro instead. See also = Denver Nuggets_
Thank you! Jonny, as always you shed light where it is needed. Steph truly is amazing, but I’ve never really found Curry to be that close to Magic. It is just that Magic is that great and there is still quite a gap between him and whoever is considered the next best point guard (imo, prolly Curry or Thomas).
Bruh if people would hold up and take a step back and look at curry career, he definitely isn't anywhere near magic or anyone else in the top 10 for that matter. I honestly have never seen as much hype for a player as him. He's extremely overrated. He isn't even top 40 in points scored and is behind Gary Payton who wasn't a scorer and trails current players like chris Paul, who, also, isn't even a scorer. He also isn't top 40 in assist and trails players like Derek Harper and Avery Johnson, who weren't stars, and current players like Conley and Holliday. So what are his achievements? He's the all-time 3 point leader. But wasn't ray Allen the leader for years? Allen is also top 25 in scoring but never heard talk of him as top 10 all-time. Curry has had more co-allstars, for finals runs, than any other player ever. Compared to Jordan who had 1 co-allstar for 4 out of 6 of his rings. Curry has had 3 other all-star teammates for 2 of his rings and gets a pass for losing to the raptors when 2 of the other 3 got hurt but what did magic do when his all-star teammate got hurt as a rookie? What did Jordan do when pippen got back spasms before game 6, 98? They stepped up and closed out the series but curry gets a pass, even with another all-star teammate playing?? Lmao The guy was not the best player in the league for 13 out of 14 of his seasons and wasn't even the best player on his team for 2 of his rings. He's overrated AF and definitely ain't no where near magic or the top 10 for that matter!
@@MJIZZELthis is an absolutely terrible argument 😂…. How many unanimous mvps exist? I’ll wait… There’s only 3 point guards in history that have led teams to titles and steph is 1 of 2 that led a dynasty… steph is absolutely top 10 and not 10… give me steph curry over bird, shaq, hakeem, and wilt every day of the week… just because you want to bring up longevity stats is absolutely criminal.. so in your opinion I guess MJ isn’t a top 5 player ever because his stats definitely don’t support his greatness
@@OffTopicKamah thanks for exemplifying the fan boy persona I alluded to in my reply! Figured the lure wouldn’t linger to long before an ambitious fanboy would bite. Yes you are correct on the unanimous mvp you brought up and I thank you for doing so because it further helps to reinforce part of my original comment when I said “he was not the best player in the league for 13 out of his 14 seasons”! Hiow generous of you to help me out with one of my original points about steph. Then of course, as I predicted in my reply, again, you just stating one of the points I made originally, as if it somehow becomes your own statement in debate, you bring of steph and 3 pointers. Woohoo he made more 3’s. Why not ray allen top ten since 3’s gets you in. Stupid and lame af. That’s all you fan boys have and you know it too don’t ya? That’s why you said it differently than I because the 3 pointers and unanimous mvp arguments, are your only fanboyish talking points when debating about the most overrated player in league history. Refute my arguments. Not just call them terrible. You win no points that petty way. Lmao that you think steph “led his team to titles” because as I already stated, he wasn’t Even the best player on his own damn team for 2 of them. Again the guy has had more help than anyone, ever. Yes I criticized him for longevity stats and here is why. The players in the top 10 are either in the top 10 for peak performance and accolades, or cumulative stats. Steph isn’t top 10 in any of it. What for???? Most 3 pointers?? His rings don’t mean much because of the amount of help he had. Plus the fact that guys like Kobe 86% and Jordan 73% of the teams they played against in the playoffs were 50 win teams. Curry with his loaded teams faces 50 win teams, 62% of the time. Should I keep going? Wanna talk about his playoff point rankings or per game points? Neither are great. Jordan has accolades and highest peak rings and was the league alpha Kobe accolades and longevity rings alpha Wilt has the most records alpha Kareem accolades , rings longevity, alpha Magic accolades rings total assist rankings Bird accolades, rings alpha 3 straight mvp Curry:3 point leader, unanimous mvp the only year he was the alpha THATS IT for him compared to some of the top 10! The criticisms I can apply to curry that I stated above, DONT APPLY TO THE OTHER PLAYERS IN THE TOP TEN! The guy made like 1 all nba 3rd team for the 5 years before Kerr arrived and won 1 playoff series.. Then Klay and draymond and KD arrived. Then as they win 1 ring then 2 more with the most loaded team ever with steph playing second fiddle to kd, he then becomes 3 point leader and wins another ring with his first finals mvp. In his finals wins, he’s had 2 other all stars and 3 other all stars. No one has had that much help and still didn’t win 3 in a row. Dynasty is stretch my guy. That resume is top 10??? Yaw smoking some good stuff these days. It’s called hype. Don’t comeback at me criticizing my facts just because you don’t like em. Debate me on the facts or F off and keep pretending. Either way, the guy not def ain’t top 10.
@@OffTopicKamah and to say that crap about Jordan only because you don’t comprehend my argument. Well let’s look at it then. Jordan is what 5th on scoring list? Too 5 in steals. Top 2 in blocks by a guard. Yes those are longevity stats. See how your statement is dumb AF?! Why is he that high up without a long career compared to the others on the leader board. Because he had such a high peak that his per game stats get him there. Again, does that apply to curry? Fk no and you know it. The guy has most 3’s and only unanimous mvp. That’s his resume. He ain’t no pg that’s led his team to a title or whatever nonsense you stated. For one, he ain’t a good pint guard. If so then he wouldn’t be so far down the line in assist and definitely didn’t lead his team in 2 of those titles. It’s all fanboy hype. The guy has had more help and an easier path than anyone ever.
It was never close but modern fans don’t know any more than what a mixtape shows them. Guys like Magic, Bird, Dominique and others needed to be seen game to game in order to see what they could really do. They were amazing.
U need a wake up call my guy. Compare magics stats with curry. You old heads no nothing about how the game has developed smh 🤦. Explain why current nba players are breaking the records of hall of famer’s then you know it alls🤣😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
All props to Majic. As a Sixers fan I remember that finals game like it was yesterday. But what everyone forgets about that game , was yes Majic had 42 but Keith Wilkes had 38. He was the one who really killed us. Every time we got close he would hit another jump shot or backdoor layup. Must be something to have the best game of your career and nobody remember it. Well I did so props to Wilkes to. As far as the comparison. Majic over Steph every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Steph is my favourite player, but I always thought it's way too soon for those arguments. You named a lot of good reasons, but there is an even simpler way to look at this topic: Magic is almost universally recognised as a Top 5 player of All-Time. Some may put him a bit higher or lower, but he always finds himself somewhere around Top 3-7. Everyone agrees that he is undoubtedly Top 10 though. The same cannot be said about Steph. People are starting to consider putting him Top 10, but most of them are still hesitating or putting him very low (Top 9-10). So how can he be the greatest PG if there is still this clear gap between them in All-Time ranking? Steph still has time to change that, but right now it's not a real debate
@@mzdfresh6129 I'm not basing my opinion on it, I just expanded on the arguments that Jonny already made in this video based on their careers. The totality of all those arguments make up my opinion
Great point! I'd like to add that in my opinion Magic was at his absolute peak when he played in the 1991 finals. He actually may have outplayed Jordan, though in a losing effort....
I'm a curry fan and not mad lol . Magic is better at passing and defending. Curry is a point guard that's extremely good scorer so it makes his passing handles and playmaking better. Magic is naturally better at it and is better at it . I'm taking him at point and putting curry at shooting guard
Magic's 'short' career is a terrible reason why he should be considered greater. Allow me to explain. While Magic's career was ended shortly, his overall 'luck' in his career still far surpasses Curry's. BOTH players could have been GOATs had 'luck' been on their side. You can't have Magic's short career as a reason why his GOAT resume should be considered more valuable and cite HIV as a factor outside of his control and had he not had it, he would have been even better. Using the same logic, I can say Steph Curry should have had 6 rings and 3 FMVPS, one ring was completely secured except Draymond Green was ejected and missed games which turned the momentum of the series, a factor completely outside of Steph's control. AND he would have won FMVP for that series. The other ring, KD and Klay both got injured, again something outside of Steph's control which would have been the difference of another ring. He was also robbed of the FMVP by Iguodala. I don't want to mention Steph's personal ankle injuries in his early days as those were weaknesses of his build as a player but the other factors had absolutely nothing to do with Steph as a player. So if Magic wasn't as unlucky as he was, he should have stayed in the league longer and won more rings. If Curry wasn't as unlucky as he was, he should have 6 rings by now (winning 5 of them consecutively) and another 2 FMVPs which would probably make the Warrior's dynasty the greatest in NBA history winning 5 consecutive titles and would make Curry a top 1-2 best player of all time.
3:03 Magic did not build a goat candidate resume in half the time than EVERYONE else. Kobe Bryant had 5 rings by the age of 31 and eight all defensive first teams compared to Magic's zero. I enjoy your videos and the importance you place on NBA history but for someone who claims that Kobe Bryant is their favorite player you frequently overlook his accomplishments.
Thank you for this video, I got caught up in recency bias as well, especially after last year. But only losing to the early 80s Sixers, the Larry Bird Celtics, the Bad Boy Pistons and MJ's Bulls in the Finals, is still impressive
You make excellent points, and i agree that Curry isn't greater than magic as of yet, but lets not skip over some details with Magic. As i believe that he was the missing piece to making the Lakers a chip contending team, he was drafted when they had the consensus best player of the 70s in Kareem. Both players have very comparable stats as rookies, but injuries early in Stephs career hindered his evolution.
the injuries for steph didn't destroy anything, he straight wouldn't have dominated from season 1, Adam Silver changing the rulebook helped them win, and getting a coach to unlock your potential and style did as well
@theonlygoodonehere2259 you can not read. I said nothing about his injuries destroying anything, but it's a fact his injuries curtailed him a bit his first few years in the league. magic didn't dominate his rookie season. He wasnt an allstar or best rookie. The best rookie that year was Bird, and he took a 29-win team to 61 without a top 2 player in the league, and was all nba first team. Curry was all nba before Kerr got there, and the rule change happened before he got into the league. What're you talking about?
@@remnant8898 magic did dominate in his rookie year, never said he had the most dominant rookie year, if he went to the championship and won finals mvp at rookie year, he dominated, no other way to put it, he averaged 18 ppg, 7 ast, 7-8 rebounds, on 53% FG, he dominated, curry couldn't literally anything, he was only making all stars, couldn't get passed the 2nd round without rule changes and without kerr, no mvp's either, end of discussion
@theonlygoodonehere2259 you don't know what you're talking about. Averaging 18/7/7 on 53/22/81 isn't dominating. He had a very good year, and the only reason he won fmvp is because Kareem went down in game 5, and they didn't want to give it to him while injured. Currys stats at 18/5/6 on 46/44/88 splits are comparable to Magic, except he didn't have anywhere near as good a team like the Lakers. At least know what you're talking about before talking.
Great video and I think we have to wait until Steph has retired to review his entire NBA career. A couple of points that need to be made regarding Magic is that LA played in the weaker western conference - see "Basketball Abstract" by Dave Heeren. Head to head and all teams included the east dominated the west for all 10 years of the 80's!!! Also Magic had the benefit of playing with Kareem = in 1980 was the MVP and still best player in the world. Kareem actually won the 1980 FMVP AFTER Magic's great game 6 but because Kareem was not present the voters were asked to change their votes so Magic would get the award - see "Kareem" pages 140-141.
the lakers won 5 chips that decade, and were in the finals most of the other years. also, great as kareem was, he couldn't win shit in la before magic got there, aside from individual accolades.
Absolutely… I can’t really see the case for Curry being above Magic, when EVERYTHING’s considered. I mean, Magic has more accolades, awards, so on, while his influence/impact is top notch and regarding both primes/peaks as overall players.. it can go either way really, but I’d probably pick Magic, even. So there’s not much debate for Steph above Earvin. Hell, most people - including myself - would put LeBron above Bird when you factor in everything.. but then as far as both at their best, I’ll say that Bird probably had a slightly better peak as an overall player! So you got Magic with a better “resume” and a prime/peak that’s up there with Curry, and people putting Steph above? C’mon…
Steph completely changed the game. He doesn’t stand at the key and direct the offense because that’s not conducive to winning in todays era. If he focused just on passing he could paw with the best of them but the way he runs the offense is so diverse where he’s either passing to open teammates, moving off the ball to get open, or a variety of other ways. Magic is amazing but Steph has been the best PG ever since he hit his prime.
Nah, you always need someone who has the ball. It could be a talent like Lebron, Magic or a limited player like Draymond or Pippen but you can't win a title without someone who runs the offense
@@franagustin3094 i agree and steph does actually run the offense but he also allows draymond to initiate at times. stephs style has clearly worked he has 4 rings to show for it and has obvi been the best player every one of those rings. besides steph haters no one considered KD better than him
It’s absurd that people who weren’t around base their opinion on Basketball Reference. “Durr, he only averaged 19 ppg!”. If Magic wanted to, he could’ve easily been a 25/12/7 career guy. EASILY. But the genius of his game was how he made guys like Byron Scott, AC Green, Mike McGee, Larry Spriggs, Kurt Rambis, and Vlade Divac legit offensive threats with him not just because he was a nonpareil passer, but because he knew when and where to get those guys the ball. And as the 1987 Finals demonstrated, he still had the ability to go to a completely higher gear when needed. It’s still the best Finals series I’ve ever seen…26/13/8 isn’t much in todays watered down game, but doing that on 54/50/92 shooting AND having an absurd 6:1 assist to turnover ratio (78 assists, just 13 turnovers in six games) as his team was playing up temp is crazy to me. To be that ultra efficient against the defending champs…not even 93 Jordan was as great as peak Magic in that Finals series. He’s the one and only POINT GOD.
9 finals, 5 chips, 3 fmvp, 3mvp, 9 first teams, 4 assts titles and 2 stl titles, high ssists per game in nba hiatory, chip his first year playing all 5 positions and ran his conference for the entire decade while having to see the Celtics, Pistons and Sixers year in and out. Wanna talk about being a game changing engine? He was the motor of the league's best offense, could play 5 positions and pioneered big guys playing point. Still #1 with a bullet
I think Magic wasn't going to win another ring without Kareem. Too many teams were already on the lakers such as the blazers, rockets, suns and jazz. But I see your point of him still being good.
@@easylife6348 nah. The Jazz weren't losing to any west team In 97-98. Especially because although Kobe was good, he tended to fold in the playoffs in the 90s
Hard to say when doing a what if revisionist scenario. Magic and Worthy aren't beating Portland in 91-92. Too Deep. Remember Barkley said his agent told him he was being traded to the Lakers in 92-93, and the Sixers pulled out the last second. Maybe if Magic is there and 33 years old by then, he pushes Jerry West to make the trade happen. Chuck in his prime with a 33 year old Magic is enough to get back to the Finals obviously since Chuck was good enough to carry the Suns with KJ, but the Suns were deeper. Worthy was carrying the Lakers pretty well on his own in 91-92, but injured his knee and needed surgery and was never the same. Maybe that never happens if he doesn't have to carry the load that season with Magic and he was only 31 in 92-93, but you have to imagine Sixers would want most of the Lakers depth in return. Can that team beat the Sonics in 93 playoffs like Chuck Suns could? Not so sure. Chuck needed a hard fought 7 games with a deeper Suns than the Lakers would have been. We may have seen Bulls vs Sonics in 93. Without Chuck, and say Worthy now never gets hurt, i don't see them getting past the deep Blazers or Chuck Suns or Sonics and when things were wide open in 94-95, i have a hard time imagining anyone beating Hakeem at his apex. Never count out Jerry West to make some moves, but likely he has to wait until Shaq joins the team and they get tons of depth now you ask yourself if 37 year old Magic is enough to make the 96-97 Lakers contenders when they were beat by the Jazz in 5 and then swept by the Jazz in 98 when Magic would have been 38. I don't see Magic ever winning another.
My argument for Steph is that I don't care who you have in your Top 10 and in what order, but if you had to build a theoretical starting 5 to play for a Championship - Steph has to be one of those 5 guys.
Na, you'd have magic at point, Jordan at shooting, Bird at small foward, Duncan at power foward, and you can choose any of the center legends that were amazing at both offense and defense. Steps lacks passing ability to replace Magic at point, and he lacks the rest of his abilities, especially defense at replacing Jordan or Bird.
Magic is the essence of point guard... making your team mates better... bringing their game into a - game... the reason why Lakers in the 80s always shooting great is because of Magic... also Magic is not all about stat... his leadership, smile and charisma is the big reason why the Lakers is the team of the 80s and i dont think there will be another Magic Johnson
Problem is that they do not play the same position. Essentially the game has changed and GS runs 2 shooting guards with a point forward. Meaning the word point should be appointed to the pointman, be it point center (Jokic), point guard (Kidd) or point forward (James)
THIS _inn'it funny how in this era of so-called "position-less basketball" we still insist on comparing players all-time as though they play a position..._ Steph is a combo guard he compares a lot better to A.I., the Logo, or Pistol - not Magic, Kidd or Cousy.
That is true but even comparing them statistically, it's no comparison. I seem to be in the minority of fans but I don't really see what the hype is about curry. Dude definitely isn't top 10 and imo, is barely inside the top 20. Curry is behind guys like Gary Payton on the all-time scoring list, 43rd, and trails guys like Avery Johnson and Derek Harper on the assist list, outside the top 20. He's already had a 14 year career and is behind several other active players in scoring. Are we really gonna place that much emphasis on him leading the all-time list in 3's?? I didn't hear anyone proclaiming ray Allen as the goat, or placing him top 10 when he sat atop the 3 list for years! And to touch on Curry's rings. No other all time great or top 10 player has 3 other All-stars on the roster when they won a ring. Look at guys like Jordan and Kobe. Jordan had a co all-star in pippen for 4-6 rings. Kobe had 1 co all-star for his 5. Yet curry has had multiple co- All-stars for all 4 of his rings. Hell I even make the case that not only was curry not the best player on his own team for 2 of those rings but in his entire 14 year career, curry wasn't even the best player in the league for 13-14 seasons. What other goat candidate can you say that about. Hell even olajuwon was the best player in the league for 2 seasons there The young ones can keep feeding and eating the hype all they want but I'm not buying into it one bit. Curry is not top 10 and reality isn't top 15.
@@miloszchmielewski1271 may be true, but what other metric should we use to gauge the level of success of any given player? All NBA selections?. You don't become an all-star without standing out originally to be voted on as such, so when I use the cover-all term of (all-star), I am using it in reference to the level of talent curry, or others, have had the luxury of playing with and I'm sure you understood my intent. So we can either sit and debate the semantics of a label or you can man up, leave the strawman be, and refute the accusations I've made. No other players in the top 10 or top 15 for that matter, have had the leniency of playing with multiple other star players throughout their careers as much as the overrated player curry has. He's getting compared to magic for what?, Becoming the all time 3 point leader? Then if curry should Garner as much fanboy praise as he has, then why wasn't ray Allen being annoited as a goat candidate when he led the league in 3's? He's higher on the scoring list than curry so why not?
Thanks for this video. People don't recognize efficiency anymore. Now, the narrative has shifted to longevity stats largely to embellish the career of Lebron James. There has been a concerted effort to diminish the legacies of greats like Magic and Kobe and even Kareem and Russell. For me, Magic is the second greatest player I've ever seen play (I never saw Lew Alcindor) and Kareem is #3. I never saw Russell play either. Bird is another player that didn't have as long of a career as others but accomplished more in those 13 seasons than others did.
You dont need to diminish players while praising others. Kareem & Kobe both played 20 years yet you felt the need to somehow turn LeBrons unprecedented production this late in his career against him..? Makes no sense to say its an "embellishment" to praise LeBrons longevity as he arguably had the second or third greatest prime in NBA history behind MJ and/or Shaq. Just to give an example and shed some light on his dominance at his prime, hes the ONLY player next to MJ to win a ring, finals mvp, regular season mvp, 1st team all nba AND 1st team all defense in two consecutive seasons. Not Bird, Kareem, Magic or Shaq ever did that and this is all while being robbed of DPOY by losing it to a guy who didnt even get voted 1st team all defense.
As a Steph fan I’d say Magic is still the best pg of all time. But the main point of your video is the hypothetical scenario if Magic played more seasons while there was no mention of Steph having a late start due to injury. I agree that Magic really was great in such short span, even cementing himself in the top 10 all time and with Steph needing to catch up with Magic’s accolades .
You are spot on. As a fan who was fortunate enough to watch Magic play from the start of his career to the finish, he has shown what a true point guard can do. Yes he was not a shooter persay, but he was a scorer when he wanted to or when he had to. He was just as good a closer than anyone. He could have been more selfish and score 25 to 30 ppg if he wanted to. But you have to be an extra special player to make teammates better every game........ WINNING BASKETBALL. Take nothing away from Steph, he is just not as pure a pg as Magic was..... especially at Magic's height and size...#MagicpointguardG.O.A.T!!!!
@@staywavee6474there are definitely comparisons, but if you ask those of us who watched Magic and are still watching LeBron, the comparison in execution is just not comparable.
3 pointers existed before steph but what magic done didnt exist before him. that doesnt mean that curry changed the game but magic is way more impactful.
I get your argument. I agree that Magic is the best PG of all time, he’s the more complete player and had a better career. But, when it comes to their prime, I’d argue that it’s not crazy to say that Curry was a more impactful player, one thing is the best playmaker and another one is the best all around player. I think a lot of people would argue that Steph is more versatile and can impact the game without the ball in his hands and is also easier to fit in any team that Magic.
Hey Jonny. I’m a huge Warriors fan and Steph is my favorite player oat, but Magic is still my goat PG. The way Magic ran the entire Showtime Lakers offense with his passing, playmaking, and IQ, I realized there would be no 5 titles without him. I said that Curry was the goat PG when he won it all last year, but now I changed my mind. Great vid.
@dogbreedsareamyth9409 yea, but karrem and Shaq weren't always that talented or there Kobe still won two more without Shaq. Kareem was just an all star level player for the last chip and arguably two
You described ways that other great players changed the game, but Steph seems to be the only one of those you mentioned who naturally changed the *style* of how the game is played around the league. (I'd argue that Wilt "unnaturally" changed the style when the NBA scrambled to change the rulebook, and Shaq changed the style of how teams played against *him* -- but not around the league as a whole. Also, there were some rule changes because of Shaq, IIRC.) Not saying that natural changes are better or more impressive than unnatural changes, but something like that might be a more accurate way to describe how Steph "changed" the game. Still agree that Magic is better, though. And great video.
FINALLY someone that says magic is better than Steph and curry only got injured for 2-4 years and I DO NOT want a dumb Steph curry fan and replay to this saying I’m dumb or I’m a casual
This video is wrong on so many level... First thing were people get confused is the early part of steph career, the thing is he was already an all star level player in his second season and from there he just got better every season. Careful when you say Steph had to wait 5 season to become "elite" like Magic, because in his 5th season Steph was the MVP and Magic was at best a borderline All Nba player in his first two seasons. The comparisons between the two are absolutely deserved if you look at their entire body of work
I mean, he literally didn't have that help in Game 6 of the 80 Finals, and look how he showed up. You can even ignore where the teams finished, and you'll see that individually, Magic reached prime abilities and production waaaaaay faster than Curry did. People forget that Curry was kind of a slow bloomer
@@jonnyarnett Magic got drafted onto a team where there's another GOAT candidate. When Curry came up the Warriors had been ass for a decade. And during his career just teaming up with KD (a top 20 player all time?) people slammed this as it invalidated the competition this despite being in the same era as LBJ (a GOAT candidate)
@@jonnyarnett Sadly true as Curry's early career injuries staled his production, and that also brings a point that Johnson can individually have a bad scoring night, but his playmaking alone can make his offensive night good. Curry's playmaking is underrated for sure but if his offball play turns sour so does the Warriors offensive.
Honestly speaking, should Curry even be in your rankings? Earvin and John were unselfish, ran the offense, and always facilitated the ball as a (true) point guard should. Curry doesn't do those things. Or at least not enough of.
@@ktapreswreckd921v9 he is a great player. While not the classic PG like Stockton and Magic it is undeniable he is effective and a winner. To me he deserves the podium at least
An entire league had to gameplan to defend Magic's fastbreak, which opens up his teammates. And he was an extreme guard mismatch (for both SGs _and_ PGs) in any 1/2-court set and near-unguardable in the post because he had big-man moves w/ the size AND could create a dime to anywhere at ANY moment.
😂😂😂his team was stacked bro. Dude played on a team with 2-3 top 75 all time multiple year... How do people not factor this but will talk about warriors super team is crazy to me. Steph did the most with the least amount of help when we talk quality for quality... Only KD was top 75 and he was there for only 3 season
And Curry won 2 championship in 3 years with KD, if not Curry would have 2 championship 1 FMVP. Curry is plain overrated, this guy had literally the best team in NBA history during KDs years.
The greatest PG and forever a case for the greatest Laker (I can never choose between him and Kobe. My answer changes every day lmao but that's more on how both have different flavors of greatness) With that said, Steph has his own flavor of greatness. Who the hell would have predicted he'd become the greatest shooter of all time and breaking 3P records and changing the game as we know it.
Jerry West is the greatest Laker and it isn't close. Kobe, Shaq, Phil Jackson, and Pau Gasol were all brought to the Lakers by West the GM. As a player he's was one of the all time greats as well. Lebron is as much a PG as Magic, Magic is not on Lebrons level.
@@gboyce975 - Jerry West wasn't the GM for the Lakers when Gasol was gifted. His last move as a Lakers GM was on October 20, 1999, when they signed Brian Shaw as a free agent.
One thing that I think people often don't appreciate about Magic is how far ahead of his time he was. The lack of spacing in the '80s half-court game really held him back. He'd put up truly insane numbers if he got to ran a modern, uptempo, NBA offense featuring a bunch of shooters a rim-rolling big man.
Magic is number 1. But I think ppl are not focusing on the context surrounding he and stephs team situations. and also the competition level. The warriors are a great team with great personnel, but their dynasty is more predicated on Stephs impact on the court. Steph had not played with a player as dominant as Kareem and had another player as good as Worthy as a 3rd string. Klay and Dray are really good but the Warriors whole identity is predicated on Stephs greatness. Magic had stacked teams playing in a less talented decade/era of nba players. I much rather face a great team led by Magic than a great one led by Steph. There is also simply no way to downplay how steph changed how the game is played now. Yes many players changed the game in different ways on the same level as Steph but you cant downplay the level of impact Stephs style had on the game today. Magic is still the goat PG but there is no crazy Gap between he and steph once you use context.
kareem to magic is the equivalent of shaq to kobe, and steph did play with dominant guys before like KD, what do you expect him to play with now? lebron? magic's never recruited a top 3 superstar guy to his team, and kareem with lakers were missing playoffs, and struggling very hard to pass 1st rounds until they got magic who finally took that all away, when steph went down in 2016, his team managed to obliterate rockets dominantly and was up 2-1 against blazers and was going to easily advance to the wcf all without back2back unanimous mvp curry
@@theonlygoodonehere2259 lol ???? Steph won WITHOUT KD and that 2022 warriors team werent even all that. Magic never HAD to recruit anyone, even tho steph didnt have to either but Magic always had great teams he had no reason to recruit lol. Kareem missing the playoffs with lakers has nothing to do with magic and kareem having stacked teams so your just sharing random information that I already knew by saying that. Yes Magic took them all the way but he also had great supporting casts what so hard to understand about that??? as of 2016. the blazers? lol really? and what they did without him vs the rockets...like whats your point???? lol I know those things but I aint arguing against what any of their teams did without them why do u keep saying those type of shit?? The warriors are not winning any rings without Steph anyone with a brain knows this so i dont get why u keep saying what they done without him vs what lakers done without magic.
@@dominicharris5489 I brought up him without lakers vs steph without warriors, bc you said they were stacked, and so was stephs warriors, they were stacked, and its clear that if lakers never got magic they never win any chips either, same could be said for warriors without curry, right?
@@theonlygoodonehere2259 klay and dray are nice and role players are really good but they were not stacked like the showtime lakers. Kareem and worthy are better than anyone on the warriors aside from Steph. then lakers got great 3nd players like Michael cooper and Byron scott. idk I just feel like they were more stacked than the warriors. warriors identity rides on Stephs court impact. but yeah neither of them getting rings without their pg and thats what really matters
@@dominicharris5489worthy isn't better than kd i wonder why you never mentioned that when talking about magic and curry's teammates. In this timeline/universe kd did play for the warriors and was their mvp for two of their 4 championships
It’s close in the sense that Magic is just slightly ahead of Curry in just about every basketball category except for 3 point shooting. And it’s also not very close…well, for that same reason, because he’s ahead in just about every basketball category except 3 point shooting.
