You are missing the whole point of using the Cozy Camper: It saves you a cosmetic slot for your hitchhiker loadout. But hey, at least you mentioned the DDS's equivalent awesome utility of playing Crocodile-Man.
This one or two times when I was in melee with a butter-knifing spy, I tactically turned my back to stun them for an easy kill, that was pretty cool, I guess. That's about all I can think of Razorback was helpful for
I once saw a bottom of the team sniper get targetted so much that that he ran the razorback and switches positions and that spy avoided every single person just to backstab that sniperc
The worst part is that Sniper has, in my opinion, one of the top 3 toolkits for spychecking, with first going to Pyro, and being tied for second with Scout, due to having a rapid fire secondary option (SMG for Sniper, Pistol for Scout) and an AoE option that can extinguish teammates and put either the spy at a disadvantage or yourself at an advantage in a 1v1 fight (Jarate for Sniper, and Mad Milk for Scout respectively.) "Oh, but the sniper rifle is terrible at spychecking" look, if you don't have your secondary available to you for whatever reason, either because it's on recharge or you ran out of bullets, you still have the ability to spycheck someone either by shooting what would be a bodyshot on a spy noscoped, or by just whacking them with your Kukri if they're close enough.
It's not that, he said snipers are paranoic, but oh boy you don't know the feeling of having 4 heads on Bazaar and seeing more and more spies around you
@@bruschetta7711 the feeling you get when you are ready to get that sniper who got you from that cheeky spot then see 3 backstabs pop up in the killfeed.
To be fair, if they could find another role for Sappers in addition to taking out buildings, I think it would be good for Spy as a whole. Since it's not like spy is in a super OP place (The moment a team is coordinated or even just talking Spy is in serious trouble) and another option in the toolbox would likely help them a good bit.
@@tommyb1088 No no no, rather than a “shield” that doesn’t actually block things, it’s a shield that blocks everything other than splash damage and penetration, but breaks after it takes a certain amount of damage
More of countering their tools with your tool(or at the very least make it a bit difficult/very temporary breathing room against certain counters like the spycicle, or extra protection in exchange of powerful burst damage like demo-shields) instead of completely nullifying their tools to a stupid degree for free 👀
It was the opposite for me, I liked the idea of needing to watch where you're standing and smaller scale ganks, but also liked honorable fights from time to time yet there was/is basically no way to tell the others what you want unless you have a mic and they have Mic Chat on, which is asking for toxicity in that game. The end result was basically me being forced to only play Dominion. Duels and Brawls had way too many people demanding you play honorably, and there being no way to tell them what you want to do either leads to you coming off as an asshole for ganking in a Brawl or reviving your teammates because you want a real 2v2 instead of 2 1v1s, or playing in a way you don't like because you don't want to have your teammate basically become an enemy you can't kill because he leaves you to die. This could've been fixed if they added in chat presets that allow you to say what you want, stuff like "I want to have real 2v2s" or "want to have 1v1s" or "i don't want hazards to be used". Tribute and Siege i don't know enough about as i didn't play them much, because Steel rewards were bad and the fastest way to get steel minus Orders was dominion at 50 Steel, so constant playing of Dominion was vital if you wanted a decent source of income for Steel, which was big reason for many other modes being empty. So yeah, Dominion was the only mode you could play how you wanted without worrying about coming as an asshole....mostly because everyone else is an asshole, either because they were looking for an experience they couldn't get because of all the bullshit ways others could play it, or because they're just assholes. I know that steel rewards are at least significantly fixed because they added in dynamic rewards based on time played and performance so you can finally get more Steel than the jackass who idles the whole the game getting the same rewards as you for sweating the whole match, but at that point i was way, WAY too pissed off with For Honor to keep playing it for so many reasons, so i didn't really from it.
@@Manglet762 the reason people (or atleast me) want to play "honorably" and not use ledges is because it completely negates skill You say that positioning is important but i still vividly remember certain maps where you are always in range of a insta kill pit that you could accidently knock your opponent into because there was just no space
One of the craziest things I’ve ever seen is 3 Razorback snipers huddled around a medic, and what would happen is if a spy tried to backstab the medic, he would end up accidentally breaking one of the Razorbacks and then gets destroyed.
none of them are counters. Razor back is useless except in situations where you're alone as sniper so in that case even with it on the spy would have just shot you and then left DDS literally only really stops the scorchshot. At long ranges the sniper has the advantage and fishstick is just straight up lying by saying they're at equal risk since an instant bullet is better than a flare that can be seen and avoided and in the close combat situations the pyro can just W+M1 the sniper and has the airblast or shotgun to back him up if the sniper tries to go for melee and the SMG sure as hell isn't going to save the sniper unless the pyro is almost dead to begin with. This video was hyper exaggerated.
@@MyLolmom If you think the Razorback is useless then you definitely haven't used it. I've had a lot of situations where a spy died trying to shoot me. It's not always an easy shot if you can react to being damaged fast enough and play near your team. The moment I unequip the Razorback is when all of the spies on the server tunnelvision me, even in situations where it'd be suicidal for them to do so... so I just leave it on these days, and it's much harder for them to do that.
I remember reading the reason they gave for the DDS redesign, something along the lines of "to strengthen melee fights against pyros" and just thinking, but why? Why do you want to do that? Is Sniper not the 'strong at long range, weak at close range' class and Pyro the 'strong at close range, weak at long range' class? Is it not supposed to be the case that Pyro has a massive leg up in a close range engagement with a Sniper? And Sniper in a long range fight?
that's still the case though. Pyro can just press RMB or backpedal since pyro and sniper walk at the same speed. The DDS literally only helps with being pestered by a scorchshot
@@MyLolmom that just makes me think you've never played pyro. DDS is such a significant increase in the time to kill that's it's quicker to kill another pyro with direct flame. Airblasting you is just going to give you more of a window to no scope me to death. If a sniper is even in flamethrower range, either you successfully flanked them, or they are out of position, ie they should be dead. I'll put it in sniper terms. Imagine quickscoping another sniper, them not dying, and then them killing you before you can take another shot. Oh wait... Just because it now the class it turns off is one you don't like doesn't make the exact same design philosophy any better.
@@griskin_8202 airblast isn't going to launch them across the map, they're still in flamethrower range and it's still going to be hard to get headshot as long as you're bobbing and weaving. This is also assuming the sniper is even one of those godtier snipers that can heashot at close range and do it effortlessly. Yes it takes longer but it's by no means close to a hard counter, especially if the pyro has a shotgun. The game is built on counters. Good pyro counters spy Good sniper counters heavy Good Demo counters engi Good spy counters sniper and engi Having items that help reduce how effectively one class counters another isn't bad design it's just the items that are poorly designed. It's like pretending that just because pyro can airblast he suddenly shutsdown every soldier and demo. The effectiveness of these "counters" are massively massively exaggerated for the sake of the video and his own bias
They just decided that giving Sniper a perk against other Snipers was ridiculous, but couldn't decide what to replace bullet resistance with, and then remembered that this was the Pyro Update and that everyone would be firing Scorch Shots everywhere.
as a sniper main honestly no one bothers care about pyro mains anyway I mean theyre annoying so why bother care about their feelings? and edit yes im a sociopath i dont feel remorse
I just feel naked without the cozy camper. Like, even with huntsman, fighting closer to the enemy makes me incredibly conscious about health as a sniper so the passive healing is very calming in that regard
I had an idea for a backpack that would sort of promote an "active sniper" playstyle. The stats would be: +25 Max Health on Wearer +10% Movement Speed on Wearer -50% Maximum Primary Ammo on Wearer The upsides would help you get into cheeky spots or better survive duels, and the downside would force you to search for ammo and actually play actively.
id even go for even less ammo 13 headshots or 12 if we round it down is still alot id be for -75% Max Amo on wearer then Sure and bc you choose 25 plus max health is very wise bc it doesnt force other snipers to use it
@@Kitsune_Chara_CG agreed, 6 or 7 shots and then grab more ammo. 150 health for fair sniper duels with little to no change except for fucking up aim with move speed which is a skill problem not a balance problem.
@@harrogeorge7878 Yeah Since the old danger shield waa broken bc of that 10% i think bullet res so in a sniper duel if the enemy sniper didnt precharge for a sec which can mean death in a sniper duel you had to equip the danger shield
6:05 i absolutely disagree, a projectile that deals 30 damage + afterburn vs the infinite hitscan bullet and 1 shot potential. Sniper has the advantage all the time.
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 Sniper still has the advantage, with his hitscan weapon that can deal this damage in an instant. Meanwhile, the Pyro's flare can be dodged, and he doesn't have a scope to help him see further.
When playing spy, I like to stab off the razorbacks then lurk with cloak and dagger spamming "SPY" at the snipers. Seeing them get more and more paranoid is one of the few things I deeply enjoy.
I like the camper as an "I don't trust my team" or "I keep getting shot at by some idiot with a pistol" thing. But I also hardly play sniper as I love combos with my flare gun and shiny axe.
In my experience Sniper is absolutely overpowered, but the only sniper main I know is one of the nicest people I know. I'm proud to have him as a best friend. (Here's to you Chuck!) As for the OP bit, a good sniper is horrifying.
In my experience there are two types of snipers: the useless one that can't hit the broad side of a barn and the scourge of hell that is so good it terrifies the entire enemy team. SoundSmith talked about this problem and I agree with him that if they ever do nerf sniper, it should be their ability to quickscope and instakill anyone in front of him. So like a half second space where quickscope shots do 100 instead of 150, of which after normal damage returns. Would help a bit with bots too. Its unlikely to happen but hey who knows.
The bot crisis should show just how OP sniper is when basically one sniper aimbot can shut down a whole team, any class that can instakill from infinite range with the only restriction being line of sight is just bad, yeah a regular sniper can't kill invisible spies but let's just be real, a good sniper with a team that spy checks could always shut down the other team entirely
You hit my main reason for mailing the Razorback right on the head. For some damn reason, I bloody attract those crazy trickstab pro spies all the time. I don’t WANT to be paranoid, I HAVE to be paranoid. You have not felt true fear as a sniper until you’ve fought off three trickstab spies with their sensitivity cranked so high they make tornadoes jealous.
agread plus I like to use it as a stalling tool as if I'm being a good sniper being decently close to my team instead of insta killing me the spy now has to pull out the gun leaving him in the open for the rest of the team to see
Pretty much, I don’t really care how many people say spy can just gun me down, point is I don’t have to deal with trickstabbers and hit and run big earners without needing to always equip the piss
"From behind" is two words I never want to see on a weapon. The absolutely horrible inconsistency of the back burner and backscatter, combined with the average casual player's ungodly net settings would mean the weapon would have some major inconsistency issues, almost left up to chance.
One unrelated thing: Ambassador was nerfed because Spy is **short range**. So why hasn't Sniper's rifle been nerfed at close range? He's supposed to be **long range**. Headshot damage should be proportional to distance.
Fucking mood. There’s no reason why the Spy cant be long range, when the sniper has multiple potentially overpowered ways to shutdown enemies in close range such as - Jarate+Bushwacka (I still like the combo ok) DDS vs Pyro Razorback vs a Knife Spy Random Crits And lastly quickscope flicks.
@@kerbonaut2059 Bushwacka is okay DDS shouldn't even be in the game with those stats, which is discussed in the video Razorback doesn't do anything since *Spy has a gun* Random crits don't really make sense in this context since everyone gets those Quickscopes in close range should be nerfed because getting close to a sniper should pretty much be a guaranteed kill, even if the sniper has back-up weapons for such a situation
Well if you did fight a sniper at close range then most of the times the sniper will die because of his inability to fight back since: SMG can't outdamage a scout scattergun. Cleaners carbine needs you to deal 100 damage with the gun to use its mini crits Cleaners carbine/bushwaka, jarate/bushwaka is a risky combo since it has damage vulnerability A pyro can still set you on fire with the danger shield using the gas passer and dragons fury also plog exist. The razorback is just making the sniper much more squisher because of the lack of overheal The camper won't do anything unless its a classic/huntsman sniper. The only way to make sniper good at close range is by practicing quickscopes or use the classic or the huntsman
Yeah I was on a pretty major power trip when I wrote those exact words in my script, but if you have any sort of problems with that then I can't help you because I'm just better and smarter than you. Those are just the facts and I speak for everyone when I say that.
Personally when I play pyro I really like playing against danger shields as its one of if not the only situation where a flare punch is required to win the fight and also a single flare punch reliably kills which makes hitting it incredibly satisfying though with the other flare guns id imagine id find it a lot more annoying to deal with
Thing is, snipers are usuallly far far away, and by the time u get close enough to flare punch them, they can just, headshot you, bodyshot you, noscope you. And when you reach them ur either dead or one shot away from dying lol.
@@luleta1644 and thats the time i switch to spy, backstab them and they switch to the anti-backstab weapon. then im using scorchshot to really annoy them. i think its a valid option for badly designed maps with no option to go somewhere else to not get headshot.
"And if I equip [the Razorback], I can easily be gunned down if he's using the Diamondback or the Ambassador or even the Enforcer..." I use the Razorback because it means, no matter what, a Spy can't one-shot me. That gives me a fighting chance, however slim, however brief
So what youre saying is that you suck at spychecking If a spy flanks, gets to you without you being aware of his presence, and then goes for the backstab, he deserves it and its just rude to give him the middle finger and fuck him over like that without doing anything expect equipping an item.
As a flaregun pyro I really appreciate your criticism of the dds, you basically said exactly what I've always said about it, that the scorch shot needing a nerf doesnt mean the sniper should shut down half the damage from pyro. It is beyond frustrating landing 2 flares on a sniper from a mile away and doing precisely 30 damage. My personal idea for it has been to half ticking damage and give it the ability to ignore aim punch from the same ticking damage sources, i.e. bleed and afterburn
8:12 As opposed to giving it to almost all classes, like Sniper mains usually do? Hmmm, sure. I'd prefer if no class gave big middle finger to any class tho.
Design of rock/papers/scissors is always implied in games like TF2. Heavy would be hard-countered by trickstab spies, snipers and demomans (even with respective items and skills). Scout has troubles with engineers etc. It's just the big middle finger to a particular class is quite BS.
Playing ""honorably"" does feel a lot more fun and challenging. Like, do I get dopamine and a feeling of success from a Flare shot, or w+m1? Do I feel better when I charge up a bodyshot, or just try to quick scope? This is why I am trying to stay away from knockback/stun weapons as much as possible so the other player can also have fun. But some of these unfun to fight against weapons are either so good that you can't equip anything else if you don't wanna lower your effectiveness (Wrangler and stuff), or they are literally in every variant of your weapon (Rocket Launchers, cough)
@@DesolateLavender I tried using the pistol, but even in a battle Engie loadout it is better to use Wrangler since your mini will be ready in seconds and has a higher base dps rate than pistol. Hell I'd even argue that Short Circuit's primary fire is pretty good at close range to finish off an enemy.
@@DM_2145 I understand. Personally, I choose to just accept that it's an outcome outside of my control, whether I liked it or not. It's not my fault. I didn't want it to happen. It just... happened.
0:05 Sniper isn't Overpowered, but being quickscoped at close range by a sniper you would have killed otherwise is one of the worst feelings in this game, would atleast make Zoom-In headshot delay from 0.2 sec to 0.5 sec. Edit: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-cRCgxr3Gkro.html
Sniper doesn’t break the game, but some engagements with him just feel kind of unfun/unfair at the same time. Your only way to counter him sometimes is to just... not go on a specific part of the map... whoop de do.
@@maximilianoferrer6841 that’s the thing though, Sniper’s only true counter is ANOTHER SNIPER, which can mean the entire flow of the game can solely depend on which Sniper is better than the other.
it’s easy just beat him at his own game as sniper, with your own pocket medic, razorback, pybro and your sentry nest sniper is painful to play against though, and an inhumanly good sniper can literally shut down multiple lanes simply by existing and clicking on heads
7:02 I’m the exact same way, I almost never use things like the scorch shot because I realize it makes people mad. I’m here to have fun, not piss people off and make them target me
Odd. I’ve seen failstabs played frame by frame that didn’t stab even though they played most of the animation and swapped to normal animation once the reticle was at the wrong angle or distance from the target. Could you explain what I saw? It could be as simple as it was fake footage but now I don’t have proof for either direction and would like a source for either point of view.
The client will go with its assumption about the situation until the server gives you its version of events basically. Backstabs will hit instantly serverside but the delay in ping and interp makes it feel later than that from the player's perspective. On the recieving end it's incredibly obvious that it's instant, just have someone butterknife you and you'll get to see it This gives spy a really good upside in melee duels btw, definitely worth using if your target is at 40 health or below because you literally don't even have to aim and they can't even do anything about it. Also worth remembering if the spy is good and you're in that health range, they will go for a butterknife. If you can, nope the fuck out and make yourself hard to shoot
The “Screw You For Playing Spy” Razorback definitely comes into play when you use it as a backstab-shield on the Payload Cart. Just stay behind your teammates while moving side-to-side often and just feel the Spy glare daggers at you for not just blocking your back but everyone else’s as well.
Ah yes, the Sniper. The class that: - has people scream at you for being a no aim weight on the team - has people scream at you because other 3 teammates decided to go Sniper after you for some bloody reason - has people accusing you of cheating and later kick you if you're good.
@@lm9029 or mabye, melees like those have a "charge" meter, like the beggars bazooka. after a few seconds of holding M1, it's an instant crit/mini crit. mabye a slowness debuff while charging?
@@lm9029 if you were to hit someone while they were charging, it would cancel the charge but leave the slowness affect there for a moment, resulting in more footsies required and more direct thinking about your next move. kinda like melee duels in PF
All you doing is pressing W All you do is shoot the ground Do i need to explain All you do is spawn camp All you do is rev All you do is build All you do is click on teammates All you do is click on back
"No weapon's sole function should be to screw over another class." Makes me think about discussions around the Spy and why the class is weak compared to others, and very rarely is the sapper brought up: a "weapon" that affects only one aspect of one class in the game that already has more threatening counters.
Granted, they kinda designed it t Spy to be a general counter to Engie, and it goes along with that Espionage Theme in general (I mean.. an EMP that shuts down electronics is totally the kinda crap a James Bond figure would have in his back pocket)
On 'off meta' mode would be great. As would a 'Frontline' mode where the only support class permitted was Medic. No Snipers / Spies / Engines to slow games or do solo kill farming like they usually do.
@@oilrig2384 eh... kind of. You’re going off from the selection screen. The offense, defense, and support category isn’t that accurate anymore. The comp designed a new type of category and Engineer is apart of the support group
@@flying_gorilla8069 I see where you’re coming from. The sniper is under the support category but isn’t that much of a support class, (?) same with spy (?)
0:14 No, it's ALL of them.(Although Idc if Sniper mains are a holes, if they played any class I wouldn't mind it, except maybe engy but atleast Engy isn't overpowered class) Wanna know the proof of why Sniper is op? He's so overpowered, that Highlander meta *REVOLVES* around him, despite the fact that he is a *SUPPORT CLASS* and not even a healer support class Your meta in a game should never revolve around support classes, they are *support* classes for a reason. If, say, meta revolved around Engineer, the game would turn into choke point push simulator 2021. Since Highlander revolves around Sniper, its basically "Dont Peak around a corner until someone manages to kill that camper simulator 2021".
@@theblueengineer47792 Bots with perfect aim dominating Casual servers aren't exactly something to judge the class balance by. *Cough* Ambassador nerf. *Cough* But Highlander meta is a good example. Goes to show that even in the hands of a human player, sniper still has a HUGE impact on any battle while being able to stay safely behind his team, meaning you need an equally good sniper on the other team to take him out reliably.
@@benismann Medic is a pretty special case. His balance is, like, one level above every other class. Players' interactions with the enemy medic are quite different from their interactions with other classes. But if we compare him to sniper, we can see some major differences: - Medic's individual skill means very little without the rest of his team playing properly. - Medic can be countered in a large variety of ways. He needs to stick close to direct combat classes, which exposes him to more attacks. One thing I'd want to see changed about the medic in his current state is the crossbow damage. Bolt's max healing could be nerfed too without making the crossbow not worth using, but the damage dealt to enemies is the stupid part. Medic's whole thing is relying on his teammates to kill enemies, but 75 damage at long range is pretty damn solid for any combat class.
@@quartzskull8772 The thing is that it was originally planned to *only* counter buildings, it's one other use isn't even available in main gameplay (disabling robots in MvM), and sentry destruction is done much better by demoman with his stickies
At least is part of the class design due to it's infiltration and destruction role with spy, not the case with pyro (Op secondary that shut downs chokepoints) and Sniper (Passives that give him free immunities against 2 classes)
To answer your curiosity about snipers who stay on one point. Players will always try to optimize the fun out of a game and every game needs to take that into account
There is two types of people who uses cozy camper: - I use it because I’m too lazy to go get a health pack or a pocket medic - I use it because it looks nice for my “military” cosmetic sniper
The reason why I like sitting on one end of the map is because I've always loved deer hunter games and playing sniper in this way reminds me of those games
Yeah, I agree that the DDS and Razorback need changing. In terms of reworks however, I'd replace the Darwin's Danger Shield's stats with a 20% faster charging speed (the point being that you trade your self-defence for being more lethal at range) and I'd replace the Razorback's stats with an increased movement speed while scoped, allowing a scoped sniper to avoid more spam, dodge otherwise lethal blows and peek corners more aggressively at the cost of self-defence. I think these would have a more clear and uncomplicated purpose, be applicable to a wider range of situations and influence the user's playstyle much more, which is what a good weapon really should do.
also, the increased charging speed would make it a good combo with the SS (in some way)and it would kinda make sense, since they are from the same set. i mean, 45% faster charging speed is pretty strong i'd say lol
"It's like when you're a kid playing pretend and one kid uses his super laser gun that kills everything instantly so you use your invincibility shield that blocks super laser guns" how is this a universal thing. it's like the cool S, it seems to just embedded into our dna to do these things
7:06 When you see an ennemi, try to switch to your melee and swing it. You have 1/3 chance that the ennemi go to a melee fight with you. It's an honorable fight
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 Tool Box. Old, now defunct RU-vid channel where some dudes played some games. Best videos they made were TF2. This is the video that the clip was from if you’re interested ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-lu2HDWz2ixM.html
*When you're Pyro and a Sniper comes up and melees you twice, killing you, and you finding out the reason why he didn't die to your flames is because you had the Darwin's Danger Shield on*
I have an idea for a new stat for the cozy camper! +1 bullet for every headshot that kills It makes it so you have to actually hit your shots instead of standing in a hallway and clicking
he is so right sniper v pyro fights are genuinely so fun as a sniper main, because they are such a big challenge and either could win or lose it is cool
![[TF2] Sniper's Backpack Bonanza](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
