The *5th* Best of Every Smash Ultimate Move 

Thanks for watching everyone (after the MockRock video of course): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vaZbFd6GOY0.html One point I probably should have included in this video: ROB's down air was directly competing with Ivysaur in my mind. They're both big 2 frame tools, ROB's lingers for longer, Ivysaur's is faster. Which of those you find easier to time at the ledge will somewhat depend on preference, but I think Ivysaur's speed also makes it better for edgeguarding and attacking underneath platforms. Let me know what you thought of this video or the original video on MockRock! crisisrelief.un.org/t/ukraine -Main channel: ru-vid.com -Twitter: twitter.com/MrMockRock -Twitch: www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch -Patreon: www.patreon.com/mockrock -Teespring: teespring.com/stores/mockrock -TimeBolt affiliate link (excellent software I use to speed up editing on my videos, use code "MOCKROCK" for a discount): mockrock--timebolt.thrivecart.com/order-page/

Just watched both vids; Can't wait for "The Worst of Every Smash Move Post DLC"

When I first heard that Charizard's up smash was frame _6,_ I thought "there's no way that can be right", but lo and behold here we are. I swear the only thing keeping that move remotely in check is its unimpressive horizontal range.

I can see the reason for JR not being an honorable mention, but I can appreciate how footage of their ladders is in *both* videos showing it’s consistency both in their gameplay and ultimate as a whole. Loved both this video and the main one, and super happy to see what 2022 has to come from the channel

Thought I should mention this, but I think ROB's up b is pretty good. Being able to cancel your recovery with an aerial, and then continuing recovery would be a powerful tool for characters.

I was really hoping to see Revenge here. Counters are generally very situational moves, but Revenge can be really great for disadvantage, and can turn almost any move into an obscene kill move. It's also frame 3 and has minor combo potential as well as invalidating some recoveries and punishing projectile play. Still, great video 👍

Thank you for working so hard on your videos MockRock :)

Back air is such a stacked category. Arsene bair is the best bair if the limitations weren't there. And i would personally put Pikachu's bair as one of the best, easily combos into itself and other moves, frame 4 start up, and one of the most reliable multihits in the game.

I was wondering if Shulk's Nair would get an "honorable mention mention". I realize that, with Nair being such a stacked category, the innate flaws of a 13-frame nair might dismiss it from top contention. But you have to factor in how a character with probably better air mobility than Shulk would make use of it. It's got an insnae, longlasting hitbox that makes it applicable in most situations. Add to that its surprisingly short landing lag time, and its very good combo utility (again, non-Shulk characters would likely have better frame data to followup Nair with) and I'd argue it slots into the top 5 or 6 in the game.

I think Thunder Jolt is also worth mentioning. Incredible neutral tool, and a pretty good gimping move.

For down special, did you consider Wii Fit’s deep breathing? It honestly might be a contender for #1 imo, it basically gives any character one wing (without the armour and double jump) on demand, and it would be absurdly broken on a character that’s already fast, think about Joker, Roy, Palu, Aegis, etc, who can basically access god mode whenever they have time to charge it up. Even on an average character, it would move them up at least a tier (it certainly does for Wii Fit, who has poor hitboxes and might even go from mid tier to bottom tier without it), so I think it should definitely be somewhere on the list. Thoughts?

WOW! Now I know that Captain Falcon has the 12th best back air in the game! Thanks Mockrock!

Kirby's down tilt deserves some kind of mention. Don't believe the lies that its trip chance is only 1 in 3. Though I imagine the hurtbox shifting mechanic would be tricky to try to translate to other characters.

Im glad Byleth made the main list in some way. Their up B is absolutely ridiculous as a recovery move and i would argue the best for recovery at the very least. You can tether out of hell with it

I enjoyed the video on the main channel very much, and frankly enjoyed this one even more. Seeing how your view of the game has changed throughout the years is ridiculously entertaining, and your delivery, and ability to explain your thoughts with ease, makes this video one that I know I'll go back to in the future. Great stuff as usual Mockrock!

The effort you consistently put into these videos just to make another video on top of it explaining everything else as well is amazing, it reminds me a lot of AsumSaus who makes content around Melee, and this has even higher production value and effort into it.

The editing on this video insanely impressive, especially for a second channel.

Your vids are amazing! So much detail and insight that always delivers - Youre amazin!

Loved the video and watching this one to get more insight. One thing that did feel like it was missing however was any mention of Can. Granted neutral special is a packed category, but it does so much in such a radically different manner that I was expecting a cameo somewhere.

I was gonna read a book, but it seems your list wasn't actually finished with Final Smash after all :p

This was super fun! So glad you followed up with this.

The charts of what the picks were in the old video and the new video are really helpful, thanks for including them!

Can't wait for 2022 for this channel. Hope to see it grow soon. Also I am completely fine with no worst of every move post dlc unless if you're planning to.

I like how your argument for grenade is absolutely the reason why duck hunts usually don't use their frame 1 can to combo break

Cool to see the 2019 and 2022 comparisons of the winners and honorable mentions.

I love to see how your thought processes have changed along with the game.

I just discovered your second channel And I love it! You provide great commentary on all of ours favorite game!

Great list and lots of fun to watch (like always)! While I have a few different takes in terms of ordering, the one move I'm surprised didn't get brought up is Ridley's up-smash. I wouldn't put it in top one or two, but with how tepid you were at the end of the honorable mentions, it seems like it could have been worth a mention. It loses some of Charizard's speed, but has similar intangibility, power, and gains amazing coverage-safely covering tons of ledge get-up options, aerial approaches, and checkmating every tech on low platforms. Not sure 100% where I'd place them relative to each other, but I feel like I more often go "Wow, that move is broken" on Ridley's up-smash than Charizard's despite seeing about twenty times more PTs than Ridleys. (Although that could be because Charizard has up-b out of shield as an anti-air option whereas Ridley just... doesn't.) And running it through my head, I see more characters wanting that huge, intangible arc than Charizard's faster startup.

While I don't necessarily think it deserves the best spot myself, some players *cough ESAM cough* think Game & Watch has possibly the best up air in the game while other players can't really see it. It's a very debatable move & I don't know how well it would work in a vacuum where you wouldn't have G&W jump height and air physics.

Oh you gonna hit these back to back, ok, nice. Now i have two mockrock videos to watch when i get to the bottom of my everexpanding list of watch 9 hrs later i tore through the list

So glad I subscribed to both channels!

I'm just upset you don't release vids every day! Haha but I love your work keep it up!! I wish kirby made it to these lists rather than the most underrated moves but I still got my hopes up for smash 6! (Been waiting for kirby to be good since 2001) haha

I think a cool idea for a tier list video (or top 10 if there are too many) is bury moves. Moves like Mr. Game and Watch's down smash, Donkey Kong's side special, and Inkling's side special. Either that or a tier list of item pull moves like Link's bomb, Diddy Kong's banana, and Peach's turnip. I love all the effort you put into videos and think these ideas would be interesting!

loved the video!

I'm aware throws were a smaller priority over the main categories, but I'm gonna chime in on Up-Throw. While Charizard's Seismic Toss has the best kill power of the platform ascending throws with no DI, however with optimal DI (down & away), it actually kills way later, which is more than slow enough to react to. So under those same conditions, the title goes to K. Rool's Back-Breaker as optimal DI (horizontal) barely hurts it, thus killing earlier regardless of platform height. (Along with the perk of high raw damage)

2 videos out in one day man it's 12 am I don't need sleep I need mock

I think you might be seriously overlooking Corrin's up air. That move is ridiculous. Only a 7 frame start up and -5 on shield. Gigantic sword hitbox which allows it to be a potent combo tool at many percents. Still has great kill power despite Sm4sh nerfs

There’s a lot of left out moves that should have made it but they’re gonna get brought up anyway by other people. So I just wanna talk about one of the best fairs and also one of the most underrated moves in the game due to the character it’s attached to: mii gunner’s fair. It’s one of the safest moves in the game at -1 point blank, meaning it’s either neutral or + if done anywhere but point blank, giving a free mixup to literally any character who can land this move, and maybe even a guaranteed grab setup on some characters since gunner has the worst dash speed in the game. It’s also an amazing mobility option, being like corrin’s bair but faster and more spammable improving any character’s recovery, edge guard and mobility mixups. It’s also a really great zoning option being a spammable, relatively fast and spammable projectile with not the best range for a projectile but the second best horizontal range for a fair (behind min min) that can be instantly converted into a mix up because of the + frames.

Editing clean my g

The thing with G&W dsmash is that the sweet spot is really good, but the sour spot also sends enemies at such a nasty angle that would even be amazing as a sweet spot for another move.

I wonder how you'd rank some of the "oddball" moves, the cases of moves who's best utilities are against their slot's normal archetype but also keep them from being considered the absolute best or worst. In particular, REALLY curious where you'd think PK Thunder, specifically Ness's variant, ranks in comparison to all the other Up Specials in the game. That move can do so much (projectile, juggling tool, edge-guard, kill move, even a niche combo starter) and it ranges from good to amazing within all it's use cases... except as an actual recovery, where it has the dishonor of being the easiest to gimp Up-B in the game on top of mediocre distance and severely limiting linearity. In comparison, Lucas's PK Thunder is worse for nearly all the niche uses but significantly better and safer at getting you back to stage... but does that make it better or worse in the grand scheme of things?

I think I'd probably still pick extreme recovery like ROB Up B over the attack functionality of Link's Spin Attack, god imagine that move on another character

Loved both of these videos. Just wanted to comment for the algorithm

I remember that you also did a "worst of every move" in the past. I wouldn't mind seeing a similar analysis and how that might have changed, especially given that Ultimate's general philosophy of "buffing before nerfing" might mean that there could be more movement based on patches as opposed to just having new DLC characters to crowd the field.

I really thought Ridley's Nair, Up Smash, F-tilt, Up tilt, or Space Pirate Rush would be an honorable mention, great video (oof)

i'm a little surprised you didn't mention villager's bowling ball in the fsmash category since it's a free edge guarding tool that kills at 30-40 assuming you hit it great video though, i applaud your effort put into making these videos

Lucas Down Smash might be getting overlooked here. Ridiculously safe, ridiculously easy 2-frame, and surprisingly fast to come out.

The little graphic in the top left is appreciated

I’m a bit surprised that Roy/Chroms’s side b didn’t get any honorable mention at all. I do know I’m very biased being a Roy main but the raw kill power of the base version and easy damage of the down variant give it nice versatility. Not to mention that you can mix up the timing and direction (mainly throwing in the up variant of the two middle hits) help the move be more consistent when you factor in DI. The choices you did go with all do make sense though so I can see why it didn’t make the list.

Lowkey, I think a top 3 jab in the game is Piranha Plant’s. Frame 2 and the gentleman sets up for tech chases extremely consistently up until like the mid 60s and even after it has a nasty, nasty angle. Feels like a mix of chroy downtilt on a frame 2 option. If that thing was on a better character people wouldn’t call for nerds with how good of a grounded option it is

In the clip at 12:25 it looks like esam looks towards the camera and gives a chilling grin

Kazuya back tilt is nutty but tbf a lot of its utility comes from the fact that Kazuya can cancel dash into any of his non-standard tilts for free. Take that away and back tilt is still good but it's just a slightly worse version of Ken roundhouse.

Great vid

hm… my top pick for down smash would be steve. it drops down below the ledge and sends at a flat angle so it’s great for 2 frames, and it does good shield damage, and it’s decently fast so it can be a combo ender. i would replace sephiroth with steve.

As a doc main, I think his down smash is a contender for one of the best. It's frame *5* and is stronger than Mario's, killing ad earlier percents. And the back hit is even stronger, like it's kind of absurd. Another thing is I think doc's back air is better than Mario's. It has more landing lag but has the kill power you said Mario's lacks along with lasting almost twice as long with both the sweet and sour spot. He may not be able to do 2 in one short-hop but that's just because he lacks the height rather than any aerial frame data being worse. Doc is a bit underrated and I've devoted way too much time to playing him so I just wanted to give him some attention

I really like your list and reasoning, I just personally surprised I didn’t see Min Min at all, yet saw so many Belmonts

It's funny you pit DK & Mario's Bairs up against each other since Doc's Bair is essentially what if Mario had DK's Bair. Humor aside, based on your design criteria, DK's would still edge out due to its better range & a couple fewer frames of endlag over Doc's 1 less frame of landing lag.

What do you think about Wolf's back air? It's a little slow on start-up, but big hitbox and it's pretty strong.

I want to hear your thoughts on Ness's PSI Magnet, did it make the shortlist?

Flash tornado is such a broken move, but yeah its hard to make a case for it when Electric does all of what it does but better. I think the thing that does make it better in most cases is its use as a faster (since a perfect frame 10 Electric doesn’t sound feasible for most players) kill move and option.

The Shotos have been slept on hard haha

Honestly it's funny how far ahead DK, Palu, Corrin, Pika, and Cloud backairs are from the rest of the cast(in my list I guess to be completely fair). They each are so completely absurd in their own regard, I think they far exceed Mario, joker, and inkling backairs. I'd even argue that the rest of the top back airs that follow are wolf and lucina over the other three, since they are equally huge and safe, but also can kill.

If you counted character-specific gimmicks, Arsène bair would definitely make HM.

but still Ganondorf having a Dash Attack and Up Smash so good makes you wonder what he would be with some decent buffs

Doc back air is a really good move on its own though. better than mario's in every way. It does more damage and has more killpower while still being able to combo, so he should have the honnorable mention spot isntead of mario imo. Corrin's up air is also really good. good on landing, quick, you can DI it quite well but she can mix up your DI with a RAR or microspacing, and it has great killpower for a move that fast.

I'm a game and watch main, that down smash sour spot is broken. The angle leads to some crazy tech chases and sends people off stage so low that the edge guard is practically free. It's definitely the best one in the game.

Wow, he really does cover everything.

this might be odd but is there a live stream or video of you testing every move in the game for when making the best moves video

11:53 Ah yes, I too watch top Smash Ultimate games and think how much better a character if they had a completely different move

It’s crazy how many best moves or at least honorable mentions Pyra and Mythra have. I honestly think they’re the best character

Kinda surprised Wii Fit Trainer’s Deep Breathing didn’t make honorable mentions; I always felt that move would’ve been abused a helluva lot more if it were on a different character

I think Pyra's neutral b is a good contender for an honorable mention. It can deal a lot of damage, a lot of shield damage, kill fairly early and can be a devestating edgeguard against opponents with more linear recoveries. Add in the fact it has very little end lag for how strong it can be, having 3 different versions with the earliest having little total animation, and that Pyra can mix up the timing of when she uses it can give it a lot of versatility and offensive pressure with very little commitment

Really surprised not to see Mewtwo's down smash at least in the honourable mentions. (I think it's even deserving of the first place potentially). M2's down smash is stronger, safer, deals more shield damage and has more range than G&W's and Wolf's down smashes. Similar to Wolf's it is also a really good 2 framing option. And it's nigh on lagless allowing you to literally spam the move in neutral, which you can utilize to bait your opponent into committing to unsafe attacks for example, similar to how some G&W players use their down smash. It's also a surprisingly good ledge trapping tool. But obviously it has it's downsides too though: coming out as late as frame 21 and not hitting on both sides. But except for those blemishes, I honestly think it's the best down smash in the game and I don't see why any character wouldn't want M2's down smash.

So, I need to know, because I’m curious what exactly pushed Sephiroth out of Down Air? The thing can be used to pressure ledge trap, and knock certain characters out of tether. I know suicide down airs aren’t great, but the thing is very useful in my opinion.

Steve’s has the best jab, best up tilt, best neutral special, best side special, and best down air.

personally I'm shocked that Corrin wasn't even in the honorable mentions list for up air

Greninja dash attack: Am I a joke to you?

No Shadow Flare as an HM in side B? While it is rather short ranged and lags a bit, it has amazing rewards and applications. It forces opponents to be aggressive to make space for themselves or it makes them play defensively in which case they can be punished. It can help the user get out of disadvantage, creates an delayed opportunity for advantage state while in neutral, and it's brutal when in advantage. 3 or more orbs outlast airdodges. It also causes flinch similarly to Joker gun and halts momentum which can be awful for opponents trying to recover. They can kill early if opponents are anywhere near the blast zone which isn't that difficult to achieve for most characters, and it racks up damage fast especially if the user can follow it up with other attacks. It's essentially a projectile Snake C4 and arguably one of the best set up moves in the game.

Was thinking that Wii fit would get a mention for down special, deep breathing is basically a super form on command lmao

Mario is next in the nair line. It’s basically the same as Mii Brawler’s in terms of safety & startup. The only thing that makes it weaker than Mii Brawler’s is that the lingering sourspot is active for less frames. After that, we’ve got Young Link. This nair trades off Link’s massive hitbox and some of it’s kill power for a FRAME 4 STARTUP! It still has the same amount of safety, and can combo into his aerial up special because of the Low ending lag in terms of how long the sourspot is active for. Why say Mr. Game and Watch’s nair might be in the next slot when Mario & Young Link are sitting RIGHT THERE!?

Honestly I was surprised that u gave an honourable mention to ness down smash but not to his up smash, a lot of the time u see pros use his up smash instead of down smash to prevent opponents from recovering

I just noticed after rewatching this video that you didn’t really mention a 5th best move for dash attack. Would the runner-up still be fox, or would it be someone else instead?

Was expecting game and watch up air to be on the list tbh, like you can throw out multiple in a full hop, it's an enormous disjoint, it can be abused to oblivion with good jump height, and oh they're trying to air dodge? Just smack them out of the air like a fly with an up smash. Also incineroar down b, that thing counters projectiles like no other counter can and makes shiek fair do 30% and I feel like if incineroar the most sluggish character in the game can get uses out of it then that speaks for the entire roster

I love this

I don’t necessarily disagree with your Honorable Mentions (I mean it’s obviously an opinion piece and I’m probably biased towards my main) but I want to give some thoughts towards Yoshi, because I’m still convinced people overlook this character a little bit. Plus, hey, I’ll be giving you that engagement and I think you’re one of the most consistent creators on this platform. F-tilt: fills the niche of a combo move, and while it does hinge slightly on his ridiculous air speed, most good characters would be able to convert it into a combo, or on some characters even kill. Pikachu up air bridges, Chrom or Roy up air, Ike/Sephiroth up air, Mewtwo Fair, I think this move is slept on a bit. It also two frames if angled down I believe (although I’m bad at it). Up special: this one is… admittedly a bit weird, but also Egg Throw is the big one I want to talk about. If we are to assume the move gives a character the same level of momentum boost on their double jump that it does for Yoshi (that is, to count it as a characteristic of the move similar to Corrin’s dragon wings), then I think this move is incredible. One of the only up specials specifically that places out a projectile in front of you which can be angled/mixed up, basically forcing you to shield the move or get out of the way while you can just recover to stage (albeit there is counter play, but then you could likely counter that). Further, for some reason the reflect angle tends to send the move at a perpendicular angle rather than straight back at you, so you rarely have to worry about it getting reflected back at you. Your ability to control both the speed, distance, and angle make it fantastic as a kill confirm, combo starter, combo extender, combo ender, edgeguarding tool, and ledge trapping tool. Plus it’s a projectile, so it’s reasonably good in neutral (though not as good as something like Wolf Laser or Samus charge shot). Much of its use relies on Yoshi’s air speed, although I think even characters with less absurd air speeds would still benefit greatly from the move. I think neutral air is great with its 3-25 active frames and -3 safety on shield, fantastic combo/kill/ledgetrap/edgeguard potential, but admittedly characters who are not Yoshi would not be able to abuse it as much as he does, so I’ll leave it off. Up air suffers a similar fate of being incredible based mostly on Yoshi’s physics. Side special: lmao just kidding

I’m sort of curious how ganons dash attack got in and pikachus isn’t even mentioned if killing dash attacks are being discussed

I personally think Shulk should be there instead of Sora because it’s just really large and really helps in both neutral and edge trapping. It’s like Bowser’s except more range and less power. Edit oops forgot Shulk was already an honorable mention.

Ike's Quick Draw might actually be a contender for the top spot when it comes to side specials-at the very least, it should be an HM. It's a free recovery tool against 90+% of the cast and can reversal if the opponent tries to challenge you at high %, has movement mix-ups with wavebounces, can provide quick whiff punishes or safe punishes on long-range charged moves (and can kill doing this in the right situation on the ground), provides a faster movement option for characters who are slow on the ground, allows for many mix-ups from disadvantage through autocancels that may give you center stage back for free, can set up tech chases on platforms at low %s, and provides an unreactable ledge option with good range that can be low commitment since if they shield at ledge you usually safely regrab and if you react to them shielding, you can just return to ledge; it also often shield pokes opponents at ledge if you release it at the right time. Sure, it's not that great against shields, but it often autospaces so it can be hard to punish. Overall, it's one of the best recovery and utility side specials-if not moves in general-in the game.

I personally have K. Rool and Doc as the best forward and back airs in a vacuum respectively. A lot of people tend to overlook them because the characters aren't exactly meta relevant, but when you take a closer look at them, you realize that they're pretty nuts. Doc's bair especially is like a hundred times better than Mario's; it's much stronger and lasts for three more frames.

I dont think other characters would get the same benefit from soras nair, soras idj allows him to use the move closer to the ground which makes combos more reliable.

2:42’s pokemon trainer scared the sh*t out of me

I think falcos up tilt isn’t the best because it actually sends pretty high so a lot of characters couldn’t combo off of it but falco can because his jumps are crazy

Pikachu would probably want Squirtles F-tilt but i get the point lol

Nine UpAirs were mentioned in these three videos (Chrom, Mario, Ike, Sephiroth, Shiek, Bowser Jr, Robin, Byleth, Palutena), and yet Corrin UpAir doesn't even get a mention. Clearly this is a stacked category, as that move is insane.

Will forever argue in favor of Rosalina’s nair (though if it’s excluded because of the criteria that’s fair)

I'm very surprised G&W uair wasn't mentioned at all.

**literally just sees sora's stock icon(?)** SOWA!!

Ok, take 2! You were VERY ADAMANT about watching the other video first.

We need ‘The 5th Worst of Every Smash Ultimate Move’ next

The “new” intro is cool, but if you’re going to change the intro can I make a suggestion? Can we PLEASE have the old dark pit voice line back? The “HRAAAAH” had so much more impact in the intro than the new “hap” and it would perfectly open up each video.