THE BBC'S FATAL MISTAKE OF LETTING RTD RETURN TO DOCTOR WHO | RTD1 V RTD2 

Well RTD really exceeded my expectations. I thought this series finale was going to be crap and boy did he deliver and then some. I have no words for how bad that was.

RTD was shockingly dumb the first time he was producer. People have nostalgia for his era of the show because there were some gems in there like the Doctor Dances and Silence in the library and the Family of blood, but none of the high points were penned by RTD. his stories were always either puerile childishness like farting aliens or bombastic end of the world season finales that couldn't make the landing and just had the bad guys disappear ten minutes from the end and the people of the earth incomprehensibly pretend nothing just happened. Anyone who thought his return heralded anything good was just not paying attention the first time around.

I can't believe how bad that was, the last 10 minutes was an episode of eastenders, if Suetekh merely burned in the time vortex, why didn't he suffer the same fate when the same thing happened in pyramids of Mars???

Ooft! I hate it when I'm proven right. Just dreadful. How far has the Doctor fallen. Red card for RTD and possibly a lifetime ban from Doctor Who involvement.

If RTD wants to write gay p0rn, maybe he should've gone back to Showtime and do a sequel treatment of Queer As Folk. Perhaps he has passed his prime, and should've gone into retirement (and stayed there).

On the question of "who is it for?" something came back to me from the wilderness years (1989-2005), before the coinage of such phrases as Mary Sue or fan service or memberberries, there used to be a phrase for fanfiction that contained too many references to past stories, wish fulfilment self inserts, clumsily exposited head canon even though the plot doesn't require it, and the term often used, within the fandom, was "fanw@nk" - does anyone else remember that term? And I think that term is appropriate here because *ahem* self-pleasuring is a very appropriate metaphor for a product created with no one's enjoyment in mind except that of the creator. Imagine you're not a Doctor Who fan, or at least you're a casual fan as in you've only been watching it since Jodie and you never watched the classic series because the pace was too slow for you and you can't suspend disbelief where chromakey and bubble wrap are concerned... you hear the name Sutekh, maybe that means nothing to you, or maybe if you are well read you know it is an Egyptian deity and then if you are in the well-read category and you then hear Mara and you'd think, wait that's a Buddhist demon of temptation or Hindu goddess of death or something to do with nightmares; the Gods of Raganarok - wait this is Norse now!? Why didn't they just stick to the Egyptian? Why have Mara when you could have had Thoth. This seems like a random collection you have here. Just pick one system and fully explore it! Okay, suppose you are a fan and every one of those names gives you memberberry tingles! And then that fan, who is deep enough imvested in the lore to know the significance of these names, Sutekh isn't an Osiran now, he is an actual God - he is a titan now. The one set of people to whom those names have significance are also the one set of people who are going to be upset that canon has not been observed. The set of people who are not going to care about the canon aren't going to be impressed with the name dropping either. It's like uploading your family photo album to Pinterest and then labelling them with all the wrong names! Most people won't care but won't be interested either and the few who are interested are going to be infuriated.

RTD has a specific view of realiry, and it is very specific ' gay prism'. I dont mean he sees life through a 'gay prism' , it is very specific type of gay man who sees the world in a certain way And I can telll you as a gay man who grew up in Manchester in the 1990s, he might as well set Queer As Folk in Oz , because it did not bear anty resemblance to reality, and it did the Community, and the area known as the Village a diservice and turned into a theme park for Hen Parties . Unfortunately, this strand and approach has persistently doggged his writing, and it is tiresome and irritating. He is a very privileged, very spoilt and very self obsessed individual with a spiteful streak His reaction to the Davros backlash spoke volumes. He ought to remember that he stands on the shoulders of Hincliffe, Lambert and Nation, not vice versa.

Tonight's episode was terrible Sutehk did nothing and just got dragged along in the vortex by the Tardis. Then defeated by severing the cord. I could write better.

I was absolutely gutted to have witnessed that hour of badly edited dirge. The first 15 minutes could have been cut, and the last. I'm still aghast at what a hotMess of nothing that was. I can only guess RTDs sofa will need a steam clean considering the work of Who he hired for that dissatisfaction.

How can you say its better than even Jody? It gets half her views with double the budget

I suspected RTD wouldn’t be able to stick to landing, but that was a clusterf#%k of crap. From defeating Sutekh with a magic rope, calling the TARDIS with a whistle he just found. The TARDIS killing Harbinger with a conveniently placed, never seen before gun. The nothing that was Kind woman and her spoon or Ruby’s mum. The somehow bringing everyone back to life. The Doctor cried … again, he had a tantrum again. Although, Ruby’s gone, so that’s a start.

From what I hear, RTD was given zero oversight. That was the main mistake right there.

Bet Disney wished they bought a real time machine, quick trip back and say no to deal lol

My first memories were when I was parked on the sofa for the last strides of Troughton. Pertwee appeared shortly afterwards, still in B&W to me because we couldn't afford a colour set, but it was great. And of course Tom was mine. I've taken the thicks and thins throughout - not devotedly, but always with fondness and there was always something to enjoy. I actually agreed the show should be cancelled back in the day, because it was plainly riding on fumes by that point. The movie was a misfire but I really liked the revival and there have been inevitable ups and downs since. But never have I sat through such an empty, disjointed, smug, self indulgent, pointless emetic explosion as this disgrace. If there's any sanity left in the world this will be the last broadcast episode. If this is the best they can do with the best they can get and the best budget the show has ever had, then let it die. I will thank Davies for two things though. The first is Midnight and the second is his deal to put the back catalogue on iPlayer. But not bringing it back - that was on the cards anyway and he happened to be in the right place at the right time. I believe Ecclestone when he recently broke professional omerta and implied that the revival succeeded in spite of Davies not because of him. Irony follows those who lack self awareness like a dog's tail. Or a jackal's. To give just one example, Gatwa's Doctor is yet again repeatedly stunned into inactivity, stands there emoting while someone else sorts out the problem and then emerges to bask in undeserved adoration. Now who does that remind me of? But in so many respects this appalling vapid waste of everyone's effort and interest would make a fitting although sad end.

Season 2 won't be any different as 1&2 were shot back to back - so RTD hasn't had any time between seasons to sort out the rot.

Literally all RTD had to do was make “more of the same” show he had made back in the day and we’d have loved it, but he just couldn’t manage it.

*Disney Doctor Who failed because it went full RTD, NEVER go full RTD!!!* 😮

It happened with Whittaker she was told to to tone down her remarks about sexism , misogyny , & feminism . In her first series she fans who criticised her " to all you sexist misogynist dinosaurs if you don't like it go away we don't want you or need you . Little girls have a real role model now". From her second series on she was gagged after fans turned off.

Empire of Death part 2 was complete nonsense, for all the reasons others have pointed out. But the biggest let down was the failure to deliver on the season-long Susan (the real Susan, the Doctors granddaughter) tease. No Carole Ann Ford, no newly regenerated Susan, just the vague cimment that the Doctor may find her one day. Oh well, there's always the Susan's War Big Finish series...

I think the portents were there with the Davros business. He created a problem that didn't exist; that wheelchair users were portrayed as villains in fiction. How many can you name bar Davros and Doctor Strangelove? Heroic wheelchair users exist in the form of Ironside, Professor Xavier, Jimmy Stewart in "Rear Window". It is at the very least *balanced*, which is as it should be. Then, when fans, including disabled ones, pointed out he had utterly misunderstood what disability discrimination actually is, and that Davros as a formidable antagonist whose disability didn't hinder him one jot was almost the exact opposite, what did he do? Reflect, announce that he understood he had dropped a bollock, and he'd reverse said change? No, he smugly inhaled his own flatulence on Twitter and told people to deal with it.

My comments were removed. Not sure why. Maybe RTD’s fanatical followers? I think RTD should have kept away. He’s making Doctor Who for himself now and forgets that what makes it work is the Doctor needs to be enigmatic and resilient and sadly I don’t see that from Gatwa. I never thought RTD was a genius writer because he does constantly rip off Classic Who and other sources.

I never made it to the Christmas Special. Prior to "The Starbeast", I stopped watching after "Revolution Of The Daleks" when "The Timeless Children" just killed my interest in the show and having not really enjoyed any of the stories from Whittaker's first 2 years. I only came back for the 60th non-specials (hoping RTD could right the ship)... and honestly, I didn't really care for any of them. I don't know what RTD thought he was celebrating... but apparently, it wasn't the 60th anniversary. It's been a little over 45 years since I fell in love with the classic series... and now I haven't watched since "The Giggle". To be honest, they probably should've just cancelled it when Jodie Whittaker's era came to an end. I'm not interested in watching this show die a slow, painful death. Series 2 won't get any better because it was written and shot (mostly) before Series 1 even started airing. And the ratings being what they are, I don't have any confidence that there will even be a Series 3.

The RTD approach to overarching stories. Introduce, create multiple questions, build up hype, build up more hype, create a great first part episode to the finale, major let downs with only some questions answered and most through juvenile, nonsensical events. Veneer over narrative. Why can't he just for once pull back on the faux build up and multiple threads to be answered only to continually fail to do so well. Just do more episodes like Dalek, Father’s Day, Midnight, Blink. Fantastic scaled down episodes that are brilliant (yes, I know he didn't write them all). Other than the ending to season one in 2005 I have always thought most of the finales to be hyped up silliness. Just give me good stories please. The writing was atrocious.

These shows strike me as “more fun to make than to watch” much as ghostbusters 2016 was “hilarious on set” according to the director etc, but in my experience the more fun a show is to make, the worse it is for the audience.

It gives me no pleasure to say that Doctor Who is currently on life support with RTD at the helm We can only hope the Disney money men shelve season 2 before any more damage is done to its reputation. Bereft of originality and intent on introducing fluff characters Davies urgently needs to be kicked into the grass that Ncuti advised lifelong fans to go and touch before we all got to witness what they had done to a beloved character. Gatwa is as wooden as a wooden thing. No gravitas. No thanks.

The finale proved you could get any old hack to write the script and it'd be better than him now.

Well, that episode sucked absolute ass. Edit: I mean the show not your video Brendan 😂

The answer is an emphatic YES.

As a viewer who is quite a bit younger than everyone on the panel, even I can't stand this most recent series. It feels like the writers have forgotten how to write the Doctor. I've been re-watching some of the seasons I grew up watching and it just makes me sad to see the absolute mess they made it into.

RTD has perfected a new genre: "Unintentional Comedy".

I hated that rubbish more than i can even express.

19:00 The "male presenting Time Lord wouldn't understand" was such a miscalculation of pandering to the intersectional feminism crowd, of which the transactivists form a section, because he is trying to virtue signal to the feminists (let's talk about how inferior men are) and virtue signal to the transactivists (let's affirm Rose's gender identity) at the same time, but think about it a moment from a transactivists point of view, the biggest spike in people identifying as trans in the last ten years has been transmen, i.e. biological females, usually in their teens or early twenties, identifying as men, so a virtue signalling put down of "male presenting persons" (rather than biological males, which would of course include Rose) was going to inadvertantly swipe at a majority of one of the contingents he was trying to appeal to. For someone playing the "no f***s to give" role with the fans, he is at the same time thirsty for the approval of other social groups, and he is never going to be able to appeal to those identitarian groups because they all have slightly different agendas that sometimes fundamentally contradict each other.

Hubris and a god complex has left RTD believing he has the right to shove his own particular agenda down the throats of everyone whilst insulting existing fans and anyone who isn't on board with everything he spouts - and believing that all this would somehow be palatable because it would also be better than the other condescending/patronising one that came before - Chibnall - this is RTDs problem in his second tenure. When he started - he had humour, enthusiasm, passion for the legacy and how to take it forward...but let's not forget even then there were problems..with no love lost between Eccleston and RTD because of suggested mismanagement by RTD - “I didn’t enjoy the environment and the culture that we, the cast and crew, had to work in.” Take a look at just one episode with Moffat as showrunner: A Town Called Mercy - serious issues, comedy at times, but not force fed straight down the gullet like a duck/goose for foie gras... a simple joke...which allows the audience to pause and think through humour...this is how you do it.. Matt's Doctor sitting on top of a horse saying: The Doctor : Can I borrow your horse, please? It's official marshal business. The Preacher : He's called Joshua. It's from the Bible. It means 'The Deliverer.' The Doctor : No, he isn't. The Preacher : What? The Doctor : I speak horse. He's called Susan. And he wants you to respect his life choices. RTD - humble yourself now.. and you should look up humility also..fascism isn't a good look and you are becoming a dictator...that never ends well..

My Wife and I watched with the hope we would get a payoff for staying up till 12 am. Well we didn't. Mrs Flood still not explained. Time turned back so everyone lived. Ruby's Mother just an ordinary Woman. Sutekh reduced to a Pantomime Villain. Too long in the memory Tardis. Stuff shoehorned in to keep the fans watching. RTD simply brought back old stories badly written, unlike 2005.

Well, the Digital Spy mob who have kept me entertained throughout this sorry mess have actually destroyed this “grande” finale 😮😂. Theres a few who voted Excellent but theyd vote excellent over an hour long video of RTD shitting in a carrier bag. So many others have roasted it. Whoops 😂😂.

Disney has been desperate to fill Disney+ with content, and this has caused standards to go off a cliff. Agenda, is all, and story takes a backseat, and this is the death of drama.

I wonder if there is a downstream consequence of "cancel culture" is when you listen to people's accounts of their cancellation experiences is, "I lost so many friends overnight because..." of what I said or what was said about me, and this is the cause of the echo chamber - the echo chamber keeps shrinking and shrinking as more people are excommunicated for heretical views, whether it is Gareth Roberts or Graham Linehan or Laurence Fox or Gina Carano or Noel Clarke for that matter, and those are people we know about with celebrity status; for many unknowns it is just "blocked", sent to Coventry, and in a nepotistic industry like entertainment has always been, where your social network is the pool you fish from, if that pool is shrinking from the ideological excomminication then a drop off ij quality of talent will be inevitable. Nepotism + safe-spacing must lead to a drop in quality of talent.

Look what ever way you look at it, the programme has to be pulled to save it from anymore humiliation

Time to start some Write your own Doctor Who scripts, in the Blue Peter Competition

I doubt it's a mistake, I expect the BBC have the same policy as Disney now.

About from shoe horning Rose in to tick a box, what was the actual point of her

Great debate guys. Personal view is no show runner should be writing to please the fan base as a primary goal

Well, if this season of Who needed just one more coffin nail, that was it. The predictable Deux ex machina ending and wooden actors with a range of A to B. A masterclass in everything wrong with writers/show runners using the programme as their own socio-political soapbox. R.I.P a once popular and entertaining family show.

The Curse of Fatal Davies 🙂

There was a problem with RTD as early a 2005. First episode of Ecclestons era ROSE it was down hill all the way.

just proves RTD is a one trick pony.

Yes, because he was never as good a writer as he was made out to be. He never had a single good idea of his own!

you can understand why but his first run was good this time not so much its sad he might of saved the show bringing tennent back for a few episodes great and the xmas episodes ( they no longer think xmas is evil ) okay maybe things are getting a bit less woke and then no same old over the top woke

Surely after the problems caused by Chibnall then returning RTD to reset the show was inevitable. But he has failed utterly by going full Trans and Gay message and not writing comprehensive stories that follow (and redress) canon.

SPOILERS! Don't read this if you haven't watched Empire of Death and intend to. As soon as they started killing off major characters with Magic Dust (that we KNEW were coming back), all suspense was gone. Obviously RTD was once again going to hit the Reset Button as a resolution. Despite many flaws that we are all going to pick to pieces I quite enjoyed this on my first viewing,of course none of it made any sense. Ncuti tried really hard to deliver some power to his performance, but I kept imagining Eccleston, Capaldi or Baker( Tom & Colin) delivering the gravitas it needed. At least "The Memory TARDIS" makes more sense now, but "INTELLIGENT ROPE....WTF?! Bringing death to death = LIFE? Or somehow a Spoon saves the Universe? Oh and why was Rose there? She was a glorified extra. The origin of Ruby's Mother was a classic RTD anticlimax. Davies essentially wrote a big budget Coronation Street. Oh well there's always Season 2 hey?

I didn't have a problem with captain Jack I really liked his character then what put Me off it forever was ncuti and whole sqaud telling us fans since 2005 to go f off even david Tennant did so I'm done with this garbage I used to like it but I'm done with it

RTD is talented, but his talents have their limits.

the best thing to happen to dr who since it went on a bad female journey, now we have him back in his normal madcap manner. this series is not for old watchers its for the young new viewers, get real and undestand change for the new younger viewer, bring them in like wem did then have the older type stories. its fun to watch unlike the female on which was undesirable.

RTD is rather talentless for DW he ripped off American shows 25 years ago and is still doing it. The show in 2023-2024 has just been ****.

What in the remote working is this

I said I quit after bubble and dot I watched the last three episodes on I player I’m a hypocrite I didn’t want to boost there viewing figures I nodded off for ten minutes I don’t know how they got sutek into the time vortex I don’t care I couldn’t be arsed to find out how you defeat a god with a twenty foot bungee cord when he teared up at the end I nearly switched it off with a couple of minutes to go rtd needs to be gone new showrunner new dr and new production crew or it’s dead and gone

RTD1 was discrete woke crap - the good episodes were written by Moffat and Rob Sherman and to lesser degree Gattis. RTD2 is non discrete woke crap.

Can the American women stop yelling ? Shes damaging my ipad speakers

The Series 2 Miracle - Ncuti has been weak, gay and crying since Bi-Re-Generation because he is only half-powered. So Tennant returns to re-unite them and Ncuti becomes manly and a proper Doctor. The Series 3 Miracle - New Doctor and New Showrunner.

There have been some fantastic episodes & interesting aspects of the new doctor this season. I think Ncuti Gatwa is excellent and will continue to surprise us when he’s got the right script and director. 73 Yards, Boom, & Dot & Bubble were excellent episodes of Dr. Who and none of those were written/directed by RTD. Space Babies and the Devil’s Chord were probably 2 of the worst episodes and that was because the writing just sucked. I enjoy the glam aspects of this Doctor, and I think it brings back the eccentric nature or the Doctor that we haven’t seen since Matt Smith.

It was great