It is interesting how chinese brands have caught up aero-wise without seemingly having to invest as much in aero testing, Specialized are known for having built their own wind tunnel, while other brands leverage ex F1 aero know how from the likes of Simon Smart at drag2zero or specialist like Swissside, but you see less about how the Chinese brands arrive at their rim profiles, hub choices etc. Years ago the aero performance of Chinese wheels seemed hit & miss - I remember there was a Zipp copy that tested well with those in know & then some of the 3 spokes copies worked well, but now it seems more Chinese brands are consistent in their performance. Is it through better computer models, utilising knowledge gained from other brands that tested well - mimicking rim shapes or just the fact that there really is not that much you can do with a carbon wheel that is miles different? Caden use particularly narrow hubs on their tri spoke, Swissside take into account rotational drag with hidden spoke nipples, relatively small hubs and narrow in the modern sense rims, but guessing the advantages are getting smaller from these slight differences.
@@morrisizing To be fair they could just be reverse engineering the wheels from the companies you mentioned and then fine-tuning their designs based on them. Just a theory anyway.
@@morrisizingHe's mentioned previously Craft Works' owner used to work for a top wheel company so the guy surely does know what he's doing The mystery here is as to what capacity. He needs to know R&D as manufacturing is likely the easiest puzzle to solve being in China
Some interesting points - Joe could you elaborate. For instance: do the Chinese 'brands' have access to wind tunnels? given that most of the manufacturers do not make their own wheels - who is actually making them? Do CRW make rims for anyone else? Given China is kinda closed to the western world (and does what it likes - look at the car industry, little IP or TM respect) - how do we know they don't just hand around their moulds for profiling after hours?
Agreed, probably one of the most transparent creators out there. Admits and even calls attention to his biases, whereas even those who buy the products they review seem not to realize the bias that creates.
This a super review - really good work! Can I suggest another score: the Crit race score. Crits often have a mix of all conditions & knowing whether a wheel would be good under (what for most of us) will probably be a max/extreme use would be amazing!
I genuinely appreciate your time, then sharing the knowledge for our community but most importantly I felt your honesty came shining through when giving kudos to a Wheelset you do not retail..... Great work and gives me confidence that I could buy from you....Thanks
Roval is only from name western brand... made in China as well just difference is the price 2,5 times more then other wheels :) is up to you which path you choose ..
Wow this is an awesome wheel comparison Joe, thanks so much, enjoyed it a lot and I'll share it too. I don't know if it's of interest but on my channel I've done in-depth looks at Chinese wheels (ICAN, Light Bicycles, Elite). I do it from my perspective as a wheel builder checking trueness, roundness, tension, dish, centering, spoke length, ease of tire installation, etc. So it's different than how you've compared these wheels but it helps me appreciate the work that went into your video. Thanks again. Great job!
Carbon Wheelset from Avian are 🔥🔥🔥 They’re cheap like $400 for the 50mm, weighs 1500g for a pair, durable and holds speed well 👌🏼 Used mine for 2 years and no issues on my pair until just a few weeks ago a motorcycle rear ended me. They also have top notch customer support.
I think at that price point, i would value warranty really high. But i don't think i could ever justify a purchase a wheelset in that price range. Last wheelset was from yuananbike. But i love watching these videos and dream a little.
100kg weight limit for rider + bike. Just inspect your bike regularly if you're near the top end of that. (Which is good advice for every component of your bike.)
$3500 for a new set of wheels (+ new tires & water bottle) is just diabolical. Someone who justifies/buys this wheelset is delusional. Nonetheless, amazing video Joe!
Did you ever get yourself something that hardly made sense from a financial point of view, but made you feel really happy? Does the Average Joe need a Cannondale SuperSix EVO LAB71 to be able to ride fast, a Sony Alpha 9 III full-frame camera with a global shutter to take good photos, or a Rolex Submariner to tell the time? Of course not, but most of the people (who are not professionals) buy these products because it makes them happy. None of the people who I know who buy such stuff are delusional or justify it economically - but they are really happy and inspired to go out and use their new gear.
Why get a multi room apartment or house, when one could just as feasibly live cheaper in a single room unit? Or better yet, why even get a house/apartment when you can just live the van life.
I once had a bad experience with a carbon spoke, when it broke in the middle of the journey, the other spoke broke very quickly along the way. and in my country it takes quite a long time to get spare parts. Steel spoke is the best
#16:50 The next generation of prop making: Play-Doh molds! Great solution to a problem without cutting a rim or a frame cross-section, thought you used 2-part silicone putty on first look... you did a really nice wheel comparison!
I'm so happy you made this video. Lots of my friends are riding CLX2 and are sceptical when I tell them how impressed I am with my CRW5060's. They cannot believe that a Chinese made wheelset could possibly be better than their expensive Specialized wheels. Now I can show them the proof👍🏻
They are not better they are just cheaper and lighter. Aerodynamic wise, roval is ahead especially with the team edition that's why they opted for metal spoke vs carbon spoke. Listen to the reviews.
great review given your limited testing equipment. I have to point out that "LIGHTER" s NOT necessarily faster. It depends on weight DISTIBUTION Watch any figure skater spinning. The skater is the same weight during her/his spin but when the arms are out, the spin is slower, The spin gets tremendously faster as the arms, hence, the weight, is brought into the body (the center of the spin). Angular momentum = angular velocity X Angular MASS and all that stuff , or Angular VELOCITY = Angular ÷ Object's Mass, so the Object's MASS (the weight on the outside) gets smaller, the Angular VELOCIYT gets BIGGER, i.e. faster So IF the Roval has a heavier hub but the RIM (and the distributed spoke weight) weight is significantly less than the CRW, the Roval SHOULD result in quicker acceleration. video of a spin accelerating as weight is moved to the center: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-49zi_73pm1Q.htmlsi=lgt1sISpa4rNi-Bb Watch this physics explanation of skating spins: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-yVf1M0Jjn5Q.htmlsi=wz1omuw-JFZfL0BZ and this: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jeB4aAVQMug.htmlsi=Rcw2YpWMpRuEtXTZ
Very true!!! But when doing a long climb at a constant speed, weight is weight. So, I guess you can analyze both separately. However, I know the crws rims are lighter than the rovals, so win win. 😁
@@ChinaCycling true that "weight is weight" as far as lifting the weight up the hill, but the wheels are not going up the hill statically like the frame is. Your legs are still DRIVING the rotating mass of the rear wheel around and around, that is you are using leg power to make the rotating mass go around, so less rotating mass is easier drive around.. Since the CRW' rims are lighter, then it IS a win win but rotating mass matters.
Hi mate I always like to watch this videos because I think big brands are always overpriced and I buy loads of good stuff from china, I was considering buying my first carbon wheelset but im not sure if I should go with the "easy" route and get Elitewheels like a lot of people or buy Go-Zone wheels that no one talked about but it seems like they are made on a very good factory... Have you had any experience with Go-Zone wheels or products? Thank you
The Chinese companies are making a lot of the Western Wheels already. So They probably don't need to do much additional R&D to build something with similar performance to what they're making already. Given that they also have FAR more institutional experience in working with carbon fiber, getting comparable aero performance at a lower weight isn't a huge lift.
Hi Joe, what do you think about Avian wheels? On paper they look like a steal. I've seen you're selling their handlebars. Are the wheels any good? Thanks for your video's I really enjoy them!
OMG Joe, you REALLY are a wheel nerd... Thank you for the effort, one of the best & most detailed wheel analyses I have ever seen so far... I was hoping you'd pick the Lun wheel but that's just me. RIM profiles were great!!!
Detailed report. Thank you. Would love to see you test the various ‘wavy wheels’. Loght Bicycle makes a few sizes of rims with side waves. As opposed to the Zipp and Cambridge waves.
I like the chart which shows the power and Cda for each wheel set. Is it possible to add other rim depths? for instance is you had 40mm rims, is there any point in upgrading to 50:60mm? what is the watt saving at 40 kmh?
Any idea whether the aero sensor software is able to work out the changes in weight and rolling resistance (bearing friction difference may be negligible, but perhaps tire width change from internal width difference on the front)? Edited to add: Hardly matters since the power meter variance likely conceals such small differences, but props for doing the utmost to eliminate the wind variability.
My guess for the even lateral stiffness in the front wheel on the rovals is that it comes from the bigger P.C.D. on the "flat" side of the spokes. This changes the angle of the spokes so it matches the opposite side. There is probably more going one since the difference in the back wheel is also pretty good without the change in P.C.D.
This video is great as it is 👍 no need to fret about Roval CLX Team Edition as they are an addition to Spesh’s line. It’s not a replacement to the on-going Roval CLX’s. cheers
We need to test wheels on a test bench puy through load cycles. Weight being saved on spokes is ok if the bonding holds up. Weight at the rim is where you'll notice it.
thanks for the interesting observations and testing - between you at 50 something kg and peak torque at 80 somethign we should also be able to get a sense of how wheels handle with a range of overall system weight
Ive got the 50mm CLX2 that came stock on my sl8 tarmac sworks. They are ok but my r33 hyper rim brakes feel WAY better and when I need max performance I use my rim brake bike with the lightest rim brake wheels like the r33 or my lightweight meilenstein.
Great honest review. They are too big for me. Have you tried the CRW Works CS4045 Road Disc Brake Wheelset? Presumably, they are just as fast on the road and not so twitchy on the front?
Great job. I purchased the CRW 5055's from Panda Podium They are impressive. Wondering: Does the wheel finish affect the aero performance at all? The CRW's have a slightly glossy finish while the Roval's have more of a matte finish.
Very good question. I have to imagine it does, and I'd imagine smoother is faster... but... if that were true, all bikes and wheels would surely be glossy. So, maybe the answer i "who knows?"
I honor the Hard Work you put in this video. But to say the roval are the best western wheels seems to be very random. Of course they have the most wins in races, because specialized sponsors so many teams with great strong riders like roglic, van Aert, alaphilip… and maybe it’s the tarmac sl8 who wins the races
@@ChinaCycling All right, but is that the single most important performance metric? It goes against everything else looking at the wheels from system perspective: aerodynamic, comfort. To optimise the tire width for such wheels, you would need 32mm tires in front and 28mm at the back. I have never heard anyone to do this before. The dogmatic approach is to put the narrower tire in front to increase aerodynamics and wider at the back to increase the comfort (55% weight at the back).
Spending time in wind tunnels and having lots of friends that spend time in wind tunnels, Rovals have never been very fast. Their disc wheel is very good, but none of their spoked wheels have ever been close to the top wheels. It's all pretty funny considering that they own a wind tunnel.
@ChinaCycling yeah, outside of the first Rovals, I've never seen them test as being slow. But they've been very middling, despite not being bargain wheels. They always claim they're some of the fastest though which bothers me. Zipp has their NSW wheels designed for stability. They're slower than the firecrests and they've never claimed them to be the fastest wheels. They're definitely more expensive and people think they may be the fastest due to the price but Zipp has never made that claim with the NSWs
@@veganpotterthevegan That's interesting, as several wheel tests by Tour Magazine and others (even competing wheel brands such as Hunt!) have tested them to be among the fastest wheels out there. Faster than the Zipp wheels you mention.
Been wanting to get a set of the CRW 40/45 but being in the US afraid if I had any issue, it would be a long time before I could get back riding them again. I need something to light up my HEAVY emonda sl7 help. Great video
I have Campa Zonda after stock and never dreamed of Roval. But the facts here made me stay from start to end :) Good work! Edit: Roval sound check - whole bike shaking, CRW - so smooth
The comfort you experience with the Rovals compared to the CRW is down to the spokes. Amazing no one ever talks about spokes in compression. Yes, spokes are tensioned to pull the rim in and hold it in position. But when rolling and hitting holes, the wheel goes into compression for an instant. Carbon is king in tension, but scary in compression. Great work and appreciate the honesty of your videos. I'm dreaming for my next bike to make some significant purchases through Panda Podium - waiting to see the Seka Spear on your site. Cheers
Absolutely awesome video and comparison 10/10. I would like to know if you have any video on Magene EXAR DB508 Ultra Wheelset. In my case it’s between the magene db508 or crw 5060. Im a tall guys, 196cm and 90kg. Any suggestions would be highly appreciated, thank you.
I've ridden the magene ultras. Very good wheels. Haven't aero tested them yet tho. The crws are more comfy, but the magenes ain't bad! Check out Patrick Linos channel.
@@ChinaCycling thank you kindly for prompt reply. The area we live in does get quiet windy at times, In terms of cross winds performance which one do you feel is more steady (90kg rider). Thank you
