THE BEST TUNING FOR IMPROVISATION? | Why do I use 4ths Tuning? | TOM QUAYLE 

Hi there everyone! I get a TON of questions about my 4ths tuning, so I thought it was time to do an updated video on this concept outlining the pros and cons of having a symmetrical fretboard layout. I hope you enjoy it - let me know if it raises any further questions and be sure to check out the links in the video description for more lesson content and info on this tuning and my playing style. Cheers! Tom

As a bass player it has a lot of logic... 😉😉

Been using all fourths myself for about 5 years now, I would never go back. We will convert them all in the end...

Solution: Double Neck Guitar with a standard Chord Neck and a Perfect Fourth Solo Neck... and Boom!

I have completely renounced standard tuning since I started using B,F#,B,F#,B,D# 12 years ago.

Video should be called "How a bass a player sees the fret board" GREAT VID

May the fourths be with you!

Going on 5 years of 4ths tuning ...can't see myself ever going back. I gig frequently playing improv-based music -the symmetry of the tuning allows me to think more musically and less with my hands.

I've been using the 4ths tuning for a week now and wow. Guitar feels like a new instrument to me. I can now clearly see all the intervals and somehow allows me to play by ear more. I use DGCFBbEb tuning - just can't tune 1st string to F. Of course I have to re-learn everything I learned throughout the years muscle memory and all that but the *pros outweigh the cons* and I've never felt happier! Thanks Tom Quayle and Alex Hutchings!

If you tune in all 4ths-half step down (Eb,Ab,Db,Gb,B,E), you can always throw a partial capo on the top four strings and you'll have standard tuning for open strings and still keep the symetry of all 4ths, when you bar with your first finger you just do it at an angle and catch the last two strings a half step down.

Well ... used to be a bass player half of my live and started playing guitar lately (like 2010). So i instinctively tuned to perfect quarts ... and of course my friends and co-musicians looked at me like "whot a dork". Later on i got more into RU-vid and leaned about Alex Hutchings and you which made me feel less "alien". So thank you very much for sharing hints on this perfect 4ths tuning theme!

Great video as always! You are among the most articulate and thoughtful instructors out there.

Thanks for breaking down your 4ths tuning. I like the symmetry of 4ths tuning.

Ive always played by ear, now 40 years later I want to learn notes, etc. This just blew my mind!

Great content! Thanks for taking the time to share this!! 🍻😎👍

Very compelling. I've known for a long time that you tune in 4ths, but hearing you talk about the advantages and the type of player it's helpful for, I'm now curious to try it for myself.

Brilliant, great explanation. I’m using standard tuning for guitar and using 4th tuning for Middle eastern instrument Oud and couldn’t get my head around the difference and why, your explanation helps sooo much, thank you.

100k subscribers! Congrats Tom!

I play using 4ths tuning about a couple months ago thanks to Tom. Definitely got a handle on a bunch of the chord shapes now. The symmetry makes a lot of sense to me. On my seven string I drop the tuning on the thick low string and I can do some fun bigger chord shapes. Think I'm sticking with it.

I played guitar for 32 years then tuned my guitar this way after watching your early videos. Never looked back.

Thanks for a very clear definition of 4ths tuning with all +s and -s.

Bring on the 4ths..!!! 😉🤘Great video mate. I Hope all's well with you? I can't believe we've never had a 4ths off, 😂 we'll defo have to have a jam sometime.. Cheers for the mention mate and that app looks wicked. Nice one.

I love this! Bloody BRILLIANT. Thanks Tom

Nice :) I have been playing 4th tuning since 2009 almost exclusively except for teaching. Love it!. Much easier for jazz and related music with improvisation. Tom is great. I am so happy to know he is using it too.

Great video Tom! I think your closing comments at the end about the cons are spot on and can be a decisive factor for many players. I myself switched to the Major Thirds tuning nearly a year ago, which makes the instrument even more mathematically simple, as you basically have your 12 tones in a 4 frets x 3 strings box, that repeats all over the fretboard, which means, you basically have to learn 1/4th of the fretboard any the rest is copy paste. Still - same challenges apply, and as you mention, there are ways around playing chords, chord shapes get simpler, but it's not for every musician because of the already existing repertoire, that needs to be reproduced in a certain way. Great video!

Nice one T - very VERY clearly put. And now I know where to direct everyone who asks me about it! 🤙

Great video...super interesting. I'm 66 years old and started playing when I was about 10. I'm also a guitar teacher and have learned scale shapes, arpeggios and chord patterns as well as teaching and reading sheet music....all with standard tuning. It may be too late for me! I do some stuff in open G and a couple of other open tunings. It's a great idea for a player such as yourself and like you said when you don't have to play traditional/standard stuff. You are an amazing player. By the way I bought a Wampler Dual Fusion overdrive pedal a few years ago, after viewing your demo of it!

Started using 4ths tuning about a year ago after 15 years of standard tuning. Alex Hutchings turned me onto it when he did a video explanation of it and I was sold. I still got back to standard frequently for stuff but I am also in the process of teaching myself how to use 4ths last tuning to play all those same things. For the most part I have it down but the longer ago I learned it the harder the muscle memory is to break. But other than that it has been amazing and I typically just write my own music so this has helped my process a lot.

The entire video I was thinking "why not tune the other strings down?" and then you mentioned Ant right at the end! Anyway, off to do aerobics in Drop C.

Thanks for this. Another approach to improv!

Glad to find this! Looking at this now to answer the question of whether it makes sense to use P4 just for Melody and solo and to use standard tuning for everything else.

I never realised this before....thank you sir...

Tom, I love your style and playing technique. Unfortunately I haven't had time to take your lessons until now. Hopefully that time will come soon!

Brilliant explanation Tom. Thanks a bunch

I keep my acoustic tuned this way! Great tips!

Nice. That's the same way a bajo sexto is tuned for texmex folkloric music. Great explanation for your use, it's always great to have ideas for experimenting. Thanks.

Very cool! Thanks, Tom!

Went to 4ths tuning because of Tom, Stanley Jordan. Just makes so much more sense. You lose those big open jangly chords but the fewer chords you do have can be shifted all over the fretboard.

I`ve found the Bajo Sexto & Quinto Bible very helpful when learning chords in 4ths tuning- it`s got the lot.

Always great content Thanks Tom

4:53 Stranger Things has entered the chat

I have a 7 string acoustic guitar (low B). Worth noting that when I tune the High B to C and the High E to F, I now have all the notes of C Major as open strings. Inspiring to play around with that! Thanks for posting

I really like your playing Tom and glad to see you objectively discussing 4ths tuning. That said, I disagree with your statement at the 14:00 minute mark about "chord melody" being much harder in P4. I've been playing P4 for almost 30 years and I've found P4 tuning makes things much easier because it forces me out of the now cliched idiomatic approaches std tuning encourages to look at the important harmonic information that the P4 mapping clarifies. Chord melody in P4 is different and doesn't rely or need bar forms. Instead one focuses on picking the right chord tones to go with the improvised melody. P4 also makes chord melody playing more independent of particular keys because the forms mostly remain the same across string sets.

It's been about 4 years since I switched to 4ths tuning, and I'm proud to say that I only massively doubt my life choices about 4 times a day now XD Great video as always, Tom!

TOM !! I am so glad that you have a channel for 4ths tuning guitar players. I converted to 4ths tuning in the last 12 months, I can play anything I hear now, and I'm playing prog rock/jazz fusion without batting an eye. I only had to learn 1/3 the number of scales, triads, chords, modes etc (ad nauseum) to master the guitar. Knowing where everything is at an instant. 4ths tuning increases your learning speed by 300% yes.. 3 times faster than EADGBE... USE only EADGCF and you will be amazed at your progress inside of 1 year that would have taken you 3 years

yours is the most beautiful ibanez ever. no flare, just a tool for efficiency. 😍

Great info Tom! Really enjoy your insight and channel. I got that solo app too! Great App🤘🏽🤘🏽

awesome stuff. thanxTom !!!

I have the auto tuners on the head stock, its a matter of a push of a button to start improving on 4ths and another push to go back to standard. 4ths tuning is amazing

I've been going through the wonderful Alex Hutchings JTC content. But once I've gone through that there's not much other 4ths content out there. There are some videos like "here's an intro to 4ths", but I'd love to see some intermediate/advanced 4ths specific lessons from you with shapes you commonly use, etc.

I have done that since 35 year because the same reason as Tom Quale - also build my own keyboards for the same reason - also change from the classical violin position to a much more comnfortable position for another reason.

I’m definitely gonna try this out

Great man I'm going to work on it

Ha! I used this tuning when I first started playing because I didn't know any better. Alternating between “Standard tuning” and I called it “Tuning for Lead”. I can remember feeling a bit spoiled for it.

“A Hunter is a Hunter... even in a dream...”

Super interesting Tom! Never experimented with this. Also , been enjoying the Guitar Hour loads, right now listening to the one w my old friend/mentor Wheato!!

I found the same problem with lowering my tuning. I have an acoustic that I will always try different tunings. I find it worth the trouble. But that's very good advice about aspirations of making a living.

Awesome - thanks for sharing...

Very interesting. Too set in my ways myself! Read an interview with Alex Hutchings where he talks about having his guitars adapted (for playing with Steven Wilson I think) with a split nut - I think it involved moving the higher strings nut on to the headstock, giving him the standard open strings and the fourths on the fretboard.

Dude, I JUUUUUST got into Bloodborne a couple days ago. That game is freaking brutal. Can't get enough!

I've been using 4ths tuning for most things for a little while now. Although it's just another tool and a means to an end. I can still play well in standard and also frequently use other open tunings. Depending on the music I'll be playing, different tunings make more sense than others

Congrats for 100 k subs ❤️ 🎉 cheers love and greetings From Goa india

Very informative, thank you

In my opinion the advantages of 4th tuning outclass the disadvanteges by a lot. I switched a little over 1 year ago and never looked back. But i also just care about improvisation. Great video. :)

Fascinating thing about all fourths is that, when you drop the lowest string to 5ths, which is drop tuning basically and you tune all the rest to 4ths, you can play 6 string barre chords super easily. I just discovered that and as a metal head, I am super happy about it.

Hey Tom ! I would like to see your studio. Can you do a Studio tour type video ? Your general equipment, guitars, amps etc.

Finally it finally clicked what this tuning is all about

As someone who's been playing for 20 years and has tried 4ths tuning, I would add that this tuning is very seductive for beginners, since it cuts down on what you have to learn, but beginners are the last people who should be using this, because you don't yet fully understand what you're loosing by playing fourths tuning. It's a great tuning for playing leads and Jazz-style comping (better than standard), but you're giving up the main advantage of the guitar: It is the most portable instrument which is truly polyphonic (i.e. can play several different parts at once; fight me, accordion players), and having the instrument laid out in such a way that you can play a major chord in any position with just a barre (on the D, G and B strings), and having all the other open strings be notes in its scale is such a big thing for the kind of polyphonic effects the guitar is designed for. This is why it's such a perfect instrument for accompaniment, and also truly excellent for solo work (solo in the sense of playing alone, not in the sense of having the spotlight in an ensemble). 4ths tuning is very cool, but in terms of function, it's almost turning the guitar into a different instrument. You're going from the ultimate portable accompaniment and solo instrument to "yet another" portable lead instrument---and I don't think violins, saxophones, trumpets and all the rest can be said to be any less expressive than an electric guitar. If you love playing lead guitar and aren't that interested in polyphonic playing, there is a special feeling of freedom you get when playing lead in fourths that's hard to match, but to my mind, you're giving up a lot of what makes the guitar special. No offense to Tom, of course. He plays beautifully.

Nice, Tom. I would have loved to see how the 4ths tuning helps you when you're the developing the typical longer legato lines that you usually play. Maybe in a further video? 😊

Cool video stanley jordan been jusing that since rhe beginning rock on

I love what you just learned me.

I've been doing it for maybe 3 or 4 years now, I love it. I'm feeling like Barry Harris would approve of it as a layout. 🙊

I also play all 4th. Great! A lot of benifits. I actually like the equivalent to a bar chord on all4th tuning, omitting the deep 5th. Jazz chords are also easy to play. Also taking a solo idea down an octave could not be easier.

This tuning but lower is so much fun! I play a Danelectro in C#, F#, B, E, A, D. Also I play a bass vi tuned to d# all 4ths. A really fun thing to do is playing stacked 4th triads on the high strings

Basic what we do on bass guitar.. My new bass is a 6 strings EADGCF and I love it. In guitar I use standard tuning but in bass... amazing to play

Tom. Of you do t feel well lately, start taking walks, getting some exercise every day and soon you’ll feel way better. We got to keep you with us! Love ya bro!

Thanks Tom, I keep a guitar in all 4th tuning at home and occasionally play it to inspire my lead stuff. I'm conflicted with playing in a covers band where I can't really re-invent the songs without loads of forethought for the chords and lead breaks etc, so standard tuning for me seems to take over but I'm interested to know if you or others find it easy to switch from standard to all 4ths on the fly if needed. Great video Tom. Many thanks 🙂

nice vid, i'm recently returning to playing guitar more regularly, after not picking one up for around 10 years, and this helps alot to refresh my understanding of tuning lol. I mainly played rythym and my own music before I stopped, and I'm still in the process of retraining my grip strength n building back up the calouses. It seems that with 4th tuning you might go through a few more top strings? however tuning using ant law's method for 4th sounds like it might reduce the need to replace as many strings... I used to burn through 2-3 strings every 2-3 weeks while playing alot of metal/punk/grunge/heavy rythym all the time, but picking it back up i've been focused mainly on widening my knowledge base and playing more pieces in the mind of more properly understanding scales, and higher chords. This should be a big help before my fingers build those harder to lose habits again 😎

I'll have to check out Ant Law now, due to the variant on the 4ths tuning - my 4ths tuning is D, G, C, F, A#, D#, with .010 to .052 strings.

I've used all 4ths tunning for about 3 years. I recently reverted back to standard for the repertoire but also because it's really impractical to do closed voicings (especially those containing major and minor 2nds), and I really like that closed voicing sound..

TOM: Thanks for this. I'm going to give it a go.

I love using 4ths tuning, except I use Eb 4ths. Hitting a low eb and letting it ring out sounds so good in some jazz contexts.

The new standard tuning from Robert Fripp Is another one very intersting,perfect fifth and a minor third for the last litle string. Low to high C,G,D,A,E,G very cool tuning

Cool Shirt, Hunter^^

It’s fairly easy for me to compensate for the B string when soloing, since it only moves the patterns up one fret, and it’s always perfectly consistent string-wise. I simply don’t play barre chords that aren’t rooted on the E or A string, so I don’t need to learn wacky fingering. If I want higher voicing then I use the “Stairway to Heaven” type fingering of triads on the high strings (AED). If I exclusively played lead I suppose it would be great to setup 4ths tuning and just hammer away at those octave milestones. But if I switched between different tunings I’m afraid it would just introduce bad habits. So I guess one has to be really committed to making the change.

Glad to see your back with Ibanez. I like your technique (left hand) Holdsworth like technique. I am more of a Frank Gambale style player, but I a am getting into the Holdsworth like technique also. Can you recommend any videos or books on it? Cheers!

So, what is this 1 b3 5 nomenclature. Screw you monks for trying to make it inaccessible 😀First consider every note A A# B C C#.. all 12 notes laid out. The 1 is whatever root note you choose or play according to the key of your band. The b3 just means first that the note we are looking for it is the Flat of something. That something is of the 3rd whole note in lineup after G; which is C. Then you go back from there to the first flat you can cross back to, and you land on B-Flat. The 5th just means that this note is the 5th whole note from the root G we chose; that gets us to D. That is all. So a 1 b3 5 starting with G as the root is G Bb(same as A#) and D. I am sincerely grateful to Tom Quayle for introducing p4 tuning to me and making great music. Thank you for cutting through this barrier or us.

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing. It really makes sense to keep the visual aspect of the guitar fretboard. Have you also seen the other tuning developed by Frank Gambale?

Thanks for another excellently presented video. I have been meaning to try your tuning for a while but never liked the idea of putting the top two strings under increased tension. Going G flat, D flat, A flat, E flat on the lower four instead is a great idea, especially since, as you say, the open shape chords as we know them are gone. One other downside strikes me: the "kink" of the major 3rd in standard tuning forces you to use compensated shapes for chords, but also often forces you to arrive at different voicings. In fourths tuning the shapes stay constant and so do the intervals between chord tones. I'm not saying you can't have other voicings, but you perhaps won't discover them so organically.

I like your Ibanez finish

im a six string bass player and have often used eadgcf on guitar, its perfect for cross-instrument skill transfer. ive also messed around with beadf#b on the six string bass, emulating the guitar tuning on bass, if anyone is interested

For me, spending a month in all forths tuning made me understand the fretboard in standard tuning much better.

I played so much bass that coming back to guitar is so hard. I might try using a perfect 4ths tuning

It’s so funny, I play 6 string bass, and this totally makes sense. I also play guitar and just can’t play in 4ths (and can’t tune a bass like a guitar and make sense of it) - and I can transition back and forth without getting confused. But I just... can’t do this. Kudos to Tom to be able to do it.

Just found your video while surfing YT! This is Standard Bajosexto/Bajoquinto tuning utilized in Regional Norterno/ Conjunto Music which originated in Northern Mexico and what is now Texas. The BajoSexto/Quinto is used primarily as a rhythm instrument to accompany the button accordion. ( Based on the Oompah Music the Europeans brought to what is now America. The Mexican people borrowed the beat and gave it their own flavor, Check out Los Tigres Del Norte and Ramon Ayala and you will see the bajosexto/quinto in use. Some players will use a 12 string guitar tuned in the same fashion if they dont have a Bjaosexto/Quinto.Also Check out Max Baca of the TEXMANIACS he uses a large traditonal Bajosexto and is considered one of the best. He even incorporates blues anf jazz into his playing. Side note the Norteno music I am referrng to is not the Gangster rapp but rather up beat beer drinking dancing music played at all venues such as weddings, quiceaneras, etc..

I see the learning aspect here and it's a very interesting concept. Also you can play part chords or arpeggio's all day long so you really aren't losing much at all. It's definitely not for me because I have 45 years of standard tuning playing stuck in me and I wouldn't want to lose that at my age. It might not come back!

I’ve actually been using M3 tuning (i.e. major thirds) for a while now. It has pros and cons. I am as far from a professional guitarist as one can get but its symmetry appeals to me and I have found compromises to find chords that approximate the common ones that can’t be played.

This vid was playing when i woke up in the middle of the night. It came to me like a dream. 😆 Don’t play cowboy chords? Check. Hate playing in cover bands? Check. Write my own weird material? Check. The more he went on the more it made sense. Also, been studying circle of fourths lately so maybe this would streamline all that for me?

This is the video I could've done with when I asked about tuning in fourths on the Guitar hour podcast's FB page the other year or was it last year? Blues licks were a pain in the ar.. When I tried them in fourths!

@ Tom - Do you ever play in standard tuning and more? Just curious. The major 3rd in standard tuning is tricky to deal with. I got a better handle on it by thinking of the strings in two groups: 6-3 and 2-1, and in 3 groups: 6-5, 4-3, and 2-1. That helps makes fingering intervals more logical. Sometimes I use Lute tuning intervals, which puts the major 3rd between the 4th and 3rd string. That creates a 3 string interval symmetry between 6-4 and 3-1. Thanks