Brought back memories... I had a BSA Spitfire in the day. A sign of the times: brand new, the first thing my mate and I did was pull the engine, plane the case halves, mill the head and balance all the internals. Imagine anybody doing this to a new bike, today! You'd have him in a straight jacket, pronto. The thing was, that work only took a couple days, and that only because fo the machine shop time. When reassembled, the bike was oil-tight, faster and a bit smoother (especially at high revs). It did require 5-star petrol with a squirt of added lead, however (imagine that, today...OTC tetraethyl lead!). With flat bars and a small (homemade) bikini fairing, it would just top 120, outrunning almost everything on the road back then. The chrome and candy-apple paint had all the 1960s flash you could ever want. But, no, I wouldn't want to have it back, now. I replaced the BSA with a '70 Norton Commando and was amazed at how smooth a motorcycle could be. You could ride it all day and just get a tingle in hour hands. What a concept, comfort...wasn't quite as fast as the old Beezer, and it leaked a bit of oil, but I never bothered to "blueprint" the engine, either. Some years later, I found a new-in-box '73 Commando and DID blueprint the engine, install electronic ignition, and a big single Mikuni and generally tidy it up. It's fast, doesn't leak oil and has been kept up and updated (seat and suspension, especially) regularly. It's the old guy in the corner of my garage, and I wouldn't sell it for any amount.
Back in 1967 I was in the Navy and a guy who lived in the same barracks bought a new BSA Spitfire Special when they came out. The one with the Amal GP carbs. I remember being woken up early every Sunday morning by him kicking the thing over for an hour in the parking lot trying to get it started. Later I would go out and hop on my Honda Super Hawk and push the button and ride off. I always liked the looks of the BSAs over the Triumph or Norton though. My favorite Brit big twin was the Royal Enfield 750 Interceptor.
@@barryervin8536 Yes I probably should have included the Royal Enfield. There's a couple others missing as well. I just can't include them all it makes videos too long.
I talked to a guy at a machine shop who did work on British Bikes, he said when balancing the crankshaft on a Triumph, for example, he would end up removing ounces of metal from it., that's how out of balance they came from the factory.
Think You forgot a BMW R 69S (made between 1960 to 1969) R69S..with its 600 cc boxer-engine...was considered by many to be the finest luxury-tourer You could buy. Totally oil-tight...and nearly free of vibrations...and able to do a steady 90 to 100 Miles an hour for hours. Absolutely German Craftmansship !
@@motorcyclecafe Thanks for your reply. Withb - or without haviing added a 600cc BMW R69S..it is still a brillant llittle video you. A lot of fine and detailed and correct information. I truly enjoyed watching it. Greetings from Denmark, Anders
I had a 1969 BSA A65L (purchased new). I think you're probably right with what you say at the end. I had mates with Bonnies and Nortons but I sometimes wondered whether I should have bought the Trumpy. All history now. Great video. Thank you.
My very first job 1965 was at the AMC Plumstead factory first day there they were assembling the Norton Atlas.Remember the 650ss and the Comando very well.Helped to make all the control cables for the bikes left in 1968 fond memories.
Brought back memories - thanks. You forgot the Royal Enfield Constellation; at 700cc the biggest British bike available in its time. My brother had one.
The Royal Enfield Interceptor was fast but unfortunately leaked oil more than its contemporaries. But it also vibrated less due to its factory dynamically balanced twin crankshafts which ran on large bearings.
Great video.Had 3 650 Triumphs .I wish I still had the 1956 T110. It was the most useable one .The later unit ones were good but not as much fun. I'm 83 now and still recall the good days when all those machines were around.
Great video! Ive had three honda cb750s and they r great bikes but after i got ny trident i got rid of my hondas. Oone other thing a trident had over the homda is handling. The je trident handled way better and for me the feel of the ride is better more like a race horse as apposed to a plow horse. Iive fallen in love woth triples and my every day rider is a 2000 legend tt. I absolutely love that bike
Thanks mate, I've never ridden either a Rocket 3 or Trident but reviews at the time said that they did handle very well. Both bikes were very successful on the racetracks back in the day.
The BSA-Triumph triples were great bikes in many ways, it's too bad the company doddled so long gettin them out ( The design was started in the early '60s) & that the first yrs models were styled so poorly. For the complete story google either: Ahead of the Curve : the Triumph Trident or Triumph Trident: Ahead of the Curve' it will shock you how BSA Inc screwed up a great opportunity!.
I had a Bonneville T120. It was a wonderful bike and I regret ever parting with it. I do still own and ride a Kawasaki H2R which is now street legal here in NZ. My daily ride is a 2023 BMW G1250 adventure. I might just add that I am a female and almost 70 years old 😅
I also had a '59 Bonny back in the early '60s. Couldn't afford that model now. Just turned 80 and still bombing about on a modern Bonny and still loving it. Safe riding.
Had an early Aerial square 4 Mk1 (each side had casting so the exhaust was a single down pipe each side). It had a Steib Model S 500 Side car and was great fun. Also had a BSA Rocket Gold Star 650cc clubmans racer in 1964 (I was 17). Pre unit construction with an A10 engine and RR T2 gearbox. Within a year of ownership it had many mods including the American W&S valve springs and cams. It got sold when it became necessary to get married to my first wife. Wish I hadn't of bothered as I'm sure I would have had more fun with the bike.
My two older brothers both owned a 1968 triumph Bonneville. In fact they both owned the same bike but a few years and owners apart. My brother Clyde bought the 650 in 1972 and a friend rebuilt the 650 into a Sonny Rout 750 pushing nearly 72 horsepower. He still owns it.
I’ve had three of these bikes a 750 tiger and two commando s a 750 roadster and a 850 interstate and while i loved them all the commandos were faster .great video 🇳🇿
I have had my Triumph Tr-6 with a hard tail and magneto for 40 years. When she was 50 years old we had to split the cases to replace the camshafts and the sludge trap. Cleaned everything up and put her back together and now she is good for another 50 years.
I had a BSA Lightening in 1970. It was quick and handled well but the engine was soft, needed a rebuild every 20 miles. I was overjoyed when it stolen. Bought a Jawa 250. Ugly and smelly but cheap to run and reliable. Now I am 80 I dream of having one of these retro bikes. They are all so much better in every way.
Hi Julian. I went from a Matchless G9 twin to a Jawa 350 twin 2 stroke. Great bikes, but a trifle agricultural. Changed a barrel base gasket on the side of the road once. Did over 100,000 miles on the Jawa. The electrics were worse than Joe Lucas's (the Prince of darkness) DC generators. I soon learned watt's watt with that bike. Kept a multimeter in the toolkit. I had a 250 Jawa at one stage too, and a Tiger 100. I eventually graduated to a brand new Yamaha 250 SR, and had that for 19 years, replacing the rings just once. And to think we ignorantly called them "Jap Junk". I'm 74 now and drive a Nissan March that has the sweetest little 998 cc 4 cyl 4 valve motor. Broad power band, hardly needs five gears, pulls away like a Square-four (10-100 mph in top gear) but only gets up to 75.. No more bikes for me, when I think of the number of times I could have been wiped out a cold shiver runs down my accelerator cable. Keep safe. Cheers, P.R.
I bought a brand new 1979 T140, lots of people laughed at me, but boy some of those boys riding 1100 Katrina's were very surprised to be over taken in a corner, especially after they had blasted past me 1 or 2 miles back, surprised I was close enough to pass them in the corner!
@@redtobertshateshandles you obviously never rode a TSS, m7ch stiffer crank shaft, nearly doubled big end journals but much narrower so no increase in friction, lighter con rods, a much, much improved engine than a T140E which I also owned from brand new, and I also might add the only thing that ever fell off that was me after hitting a car sump full of oil after an accident!
I have had my Sportster for 25 years and 400,000 miles on the original engine. Reliable and dependable transportation. My daily driver as I don't have a car 🚗.
@@motorcyclecafe Sportsters are great bikes. They are not a gateway to the big twins they are a bike unto themselves. Went through 37 back tires and 17 front ones and 3 belts. I did have the stator replaced when she was 20 years old. I love the solid mount you feel her while she's running. 883 is good enough for me.
My memories of large motorcycles was the 750 litre Suzuki, the "Flaming Knights" (c. 1970) were buying them saying they were riders and the Harley-Davidsons required too much maintenance time, they wanted to spend time riding, not in the repair shop.
Thanks for the video, two notable 1960's Italian omissions are the Laverda 650 / 750 vertical twins and the Benelli 650 Tornado. They were great motorcycles that were manufactured well into the 1970's.
In 1964.. when l was 17 years old... l had a 650 plunger frame BSA A10. I also acquired a Triumph Thunder Bird..the engine of which l fitted into a Douglas frame with torsion bar rear suspension. The Douglas wheel hubs were fitted with Borrani aluminum rims. Tank and seat were typical cafe racer style. It was a good looking racer! I took it to South Africa and raced it there for a couple of years. I moved to Zambia and subsequently left the bike there. I wonder where it is today... any body in Zambia who can help??
best bike in the late 60's was royal enfield's interceptor closely followed by the Norton commando, bonnevilles vibrated terribly, baa's were good workhorses, don't about Harleys or tap bikes as I never rode them.
I had a Norton 750 Commando Interstate with a 810cc Dunstall conversion. The Norton was incredible fast, easy to handle, but always had trouble with Lucas electronic parts failing. The carbs needed to be tickled and the bike leaked oil from the vertically split engine cases. Even with all it’s faults it was one incredible motorcycle.
Haha..found myself accidentially landing on your page again. Good vids mate. Honest. Your one of 1970s 400s was particularly good and struck a resonent shared experience bone with me, although I resonated with the earlier part of the decade when 350s were de rigeur before the quest to have a modest segment advantage naturally took capacity to 400.
@@geoffreycarson2311 I owned an RD350A (1974) for a short while. Years later I became a hard core 2 stroke afficionado. Although the RD350A was a remarkable class performer in its day, at just 39BHP (crank), no, they didn't blow away the "BIG Kwackers" in an era when all Japanese frame and suspension handling was definitively mediocre at best and 'blow away' meant out accelerate and to a higher top speed in a straight line. A bit of understandably nostaligic memory creeping in there. In 1976, I rode the RD350B (metallic blue) owned by a mate too. The 6th gear for cruising was probably the most significant change in the B, although overall it was an improved variant. I think the colour schemes of the A looked better though. Mine (A) was dark green metallic.
Excellent comparison. Never owned a Bonneville. Wish I did now. But I did buy a nice red 1968 Norton fastback with drums brakes from a caryard on Parramatta road. Cost $600 back then. Rode it for near a year and traded on a new Suzuki T500 at Ryans of Parramatta. The Suzuki was the better handler and faster and more reliable in real world situations like thru the old Bulladella Mountains twists and turns. Wish I had that old Norton today....
Agree with you on the Suzuki T500...bought one new back in 72...STILL got it today...needs big refurb..!!...Back in the day...Bonnevilles..Norton Commandos and Triumphs fitted with the infamous 750 "zip kit "....struggled to stay with it out on the road...!!!!
Your notee on the varying frame types of triumph trident and bs rocket 3 are now noted i know they were the same so to speak but i never saw that at the time. Wow what you can learn in life. Thank you . Yes those we're the days 50s 60s 70s then all change.
Your Right the Bonneville ruled in the 60s, you never saw sportsters on the roads of England to make comparisons but in America Bonneville's were killing sportsters in flat track racing, the Norton sports special with its twin carbs came out in 62 but the Dominator 88 500 or dominator 600 with the single carb would be a match for most of your pick with a decent rider on board. monoblocs cellar .
I always wanted a snortin Norton 750 commando but got and still have since 1978 a Harley 1968 Electra Glide I've put 100,000 miles on that bike great video thanks for sharing 👍
Thank you mate for your really positive feedback. I truly appreciate it. 100,000 miles is a great effort, goes to prove those old Shovelheads are pretty good once they are sorted properly.
I am lucky enough to own a Domestic 1968 TR6R still in the acrylic riviera blue over silver with original pea shooters. One owner before me with original sales docs, service book etc
Ah! Australia! England is a small country. My journey in 1966 from Southend (essex) to college (engineering) in Hatfield, was less than 50 miles. It generally took me 2 hours, but this involved a lot of time in village greens poring over a map. My 500 Velocette could only manage 80mph flat out anyway. If I'd been in Australia i think I'd have had a Vincent 1000!
@@motorcyclecafe well... as a junior engineer I was on about £500 a year, and you could buy a decent Rapide for under £100. It would probably have cost more in Australia tho?
agree! started riding in 1957 19 bikes later i must agree on the Triumps, had 2 -1959 t-20s the cub, and 2- bonnervilles 1964 and 1967 by far my favorate was the 1964.
I production raced the Honda CB750/4 in the early 1970's. I was electronically timed at 132.16 mph on the back straight at Terratonga, Invercargill. I blew off the Kwaka Z1 900's! Needless to say, it got me an appointment with the scrutineers. However, all parts were factory Honda! I used to change the front sprocket depending on the circuit - speed or acceleration. Best I could do was just over the 12 sec for the 1/4 - Z1 900's beat me there, often going under 12 sec. I think I got "one out of the box". Flat out I would be siting beyond the red line which I think went from 8200 to 9200 and the end of the dial was 11,000. I could take it to 11,000. Hell, I miss that bike!
@@motorcyclecafe Yeah, tuning was all important. I build my own Dwell meter and bought a strobelight. I took off the timing plate and put a washer behind it, new points and returned it. Tightened it up really tight. Then sat with the Dwell and Strobe just working between the two of them until I got the engine "bark" as sharp as I could (it goes "dull" right at the point of being retarded). Then put new candles in it and off to the track. I also had removed the air filter, removed the baffles from the pipes and jetted the carbs up two sizes. I think the standard front sprocket was 18 tooth - I'd put on a 17 or 19 depending on the track. Man, did it sing! I used to often see the local HONDA dealer on the start line and was very glad I could do my own tuning!
Four laps of Amaroo Park isn't very far. The 650 Bonneville win, though, was probably a rap for the mechanics as much as the bike. Them and Harley's were enthusiasts bikes. By the late '70's nearly everyone rode Jappers, Brit bikes usually sat in the garage. If you needed to ride somewhere, Japanese bikes didn't fall apart.
Fuck where do you start. I think you've done a great job, I love your style and your conclusion is sound and rings true to my experience. The unit Bezzers were not as good as their forbears. Fastest bloke I knew rode a 650 Tiger and he'd have anything off. Love your channel and look forward to your vids. Cheers mate.
That bonnie was fitted with E3134 cams, higher compression pistons and gas flowed. Put the equivalent in a Triple and you have Slippery Sam a much faster machine. Some 650cc Norton SS’s were also fitted high lift cams and higher compression pistons and given to road testers.
The main problem with the British bikes was their proclivity to leak oil, vibrate themselves to pieces and the electrics, provided by Lucas, the "Prince of Darkness".
I found on my own that rubber mounting the coils, head and tailight, that the Lucas electrics were very dependable. I rebuilt a number of Triumphs, BSA's like this and never had problems
I Had a '66 Bonneville T120. To my eye it was the best looking bike on the road. Still is in my humble opinion. I do remember seeing a 650 Matchless which you didn't mention.
I currently own a late '72 Bonneville and a later '72 Trident. While I love the Trident, and the intoxicating sound it makes at full throttle, I ride the Bonneville more. The Trident is much better on major highways, but the Bonnie excels on the back roads around East Tennessee. I had a '71 BSA A65L, but I didn't like it much. The one-piece rocker cover is a pain to remove. I can adjust all six valves on my Trident in the time it took to remove the cover and the head steady from the A65. And, don't get me started on the awful gap between second and third gears. You either scream in second or lug in third to stay legal in town.
In the early 70's, the best bike I owned was my BSA rocket3.... suited my riding style. The Norton interstate was nice, cornered as fast in the wet as the dry, I had great fun watching my mates in the rear view mirror who were on Japanese bikes, wobbling around corners. I've had dozens of bikes since, some good, some not so good, but my rocket3 stays in my heart. I nearly killed myself riding my 73 Honda 750, in the same way as my rocket3, thinking I could ride it the same way, frightening lesson learned very quickly. I still have a R3 but not the same one.
Yes a lot of those early japanese bikes suffered from poor handling. It took them years even decades to get bikes to handle anywhere near as good as the Italian bikes being made.
The fast, good looking Commando Roadster was left out. The Commando “S” had the fastest quarter mile time in the June 1970 Cycle magazine road test against six of the era’s best, which included Honda’s CB750.
@@motorcyclecafe Yes. The Roadster was released in 1970. In 1971 a Dunstall Norton was the first production bike to do the quarter mile in less than 12 seconds. I wonder how many were produced by Dunstall in order to qualify as “production”. The Royal Enfield Interceptor was a good bike but leaked oil even more than the other twins. Instead of Enfield it was sometimes derisively called “Oil Field”.
A friend of mine has been restoring his Norton Commando for awhile. He bought it new. He loves that bike. I may buy it from him, as he is not likely going to ride again, due to poor health. But to be honest, I’d rather have a T120. But, I know the Commando’s provenance and having been my friend’s bike gives it immense sentimental value….
0:43 I still have my Norton 650SS, which I bought second hand in 1971. Following a rebuild, high compression pistons, new camshaft, and careful setting up I got it up to 121 mph over a measured mile on the Low Road to Fenstanton. I lost my anal nerve and never went anywhere near that speed again. I subsequently returned the bike to standard compression when 5* petrol was no longer available. The first bike shown has Amal Concentric carbs, rather than the Monobloc, so it must be 1967 or later - or had the carbs replaced, and a non-standard seat, but it looks as though it has the original scarce-as-rocking-horse-shit front mudguard. The bike at 1:07 has a standard seat (or more likely a Leighton replacement), but a non-original front mudguard.
@@cerealtiller Thunderbolt's Rule, I toured on a 1964 the summer of 1970. My Triumph buddy was a bit jealous of how smooth the TBolt was, but I loved the torque of his 650 Single carb
Having owned a few pre 71 triumph twins I can only agree. A good oroginal Triumph Bonneville can still give you a buzz when it gets on its' powerband. Low weight plus handling plus moderate torque equals sucess. Shame aboit the oil leaks!
@user-zb8ty2xt8k I had a BSA lightening rocket with a Barnett clutch, Amal GP carbs, a 17 tooth counter shaft sprocket and a 52 tooth overlay sprocket. These embellishments lowered the top end but enhanced acceleration. I also had a Harley Sportster and a Harley pan head chopper which was a real eye catcher.
I ride a classic manual Vespa and more concerned about style and pedigree than performance figures. My ride is the slowest and least powerful of all the bikes you mention in this vid but probably one of the most stylish eye-catching machines.
I had a 1971 Honda CB750 which at the time was one of the only 2 inline 4's in the world (OK yes there was the Munch Mammoth but that was for billionaires). My friend had a 71 750 Bonneville. His was cool but the Honda was smoother, faster and cheaper and did not leak oil. The Rocket III was pretty cool but I didn't like that clunky exhaust pipe and Brit bikes all leaked oil furiously. Even in the show rooms they leaked which didn't inspire confidence.
BSA took 4 Rocket 3's to Daytona. Took them out of the crates and assembled them. They rode the track around 130 MPH. One had to pit and tighten a loose chain guard. Stock out of the box. Pity what happened to the whole British motorcycle industry.😢
BSA A65 best of the best Triumph Bonnie BSA Rocket 3 Norton Commando but a very specific version got to have the Correct Exhaust with the Key in the correct location and it must be Canary Yellow my Ultimate dream machine totally un-modded if i could still ride that is what i would want remember them all coming out having not long left school and started as a motorcycle mechanic yes good old days would i go back definately YES
If 650 cc+ was a big bike then all Harley Sportsters were big. When the Sportster EVO engine came in ‘86 more or less the 883 became the “starter” cruiser.
Presumably the Bonnie won that race because it had the best handling --? As for Harleys, they were a very rare sight indeed here in the UK... and eyewateringly expensive.
yer most manufacturers start selling the next years model late the previous year. This was the issue I found when researching for the channels docos on Burt Munro. Many people including Burts son thought his bike was a 1919 model because thats when it was manufactured. But Indian never made a 1919 model year Scout. 1920 was the first year.
In the 1960s, I the 650cc-plus bikes I owned were a 700cc Royal Enfield Super Meteor, a Model 31 650cc AJS , a 1961 Triumph Thunderbird 650cc with matching Watsonian sidecar and a 1966 Triumph Bonneville. They managed to put me off British parallel twins altogether because of the high frequency vibration. The Bonneville and the AJS were the worst culprits. At 70 mph and above, the high frequency vibrations of the Triumph made me itch, and broke bulb filaments and exhaust brackets. My pal had a 1969 Thruxton Bonneville which was better (I drove it 250 miles home from the 1970 Dragon Rally while he dozed on the pillion, too tired and hung over to do anything else) and it was definitely better, presumably because more care had been taken at the factory to assemble what was a premium version of the Bonnie, but then, I wasn’t thrashing the bike , partly out of consideration for my mate, and also because the rally was held in winter, and rain and sleet made careful riding essential. I owned other bikes, singles and smaller-capacity twins, and they ran much sweeter, the best of all being my 1938 Velocette KSS, a superb machine. In the Bonneville’s favour, it handled very well, and I was able to chamfer the footrests with confidence, unlike the earlier Triumphs I owned and rode, which handled like pregnant camels. We used to refer to them as having “instant whip” frames, Instant Whip being a sloppy but popular dessert in the 1960s. (As an aside, my mother reckoned that all I wanted to eat when I a schoolboy was baked beans and Instant Whip. My guts 😅must have been in a terrible state).
Don’t know how that emoji crept into my previous comment, except that elderly people and modern technology don’t seem to mix well. Perhaps this is why I now own a 1948 Ariel 600cc side valve…
Back in the early 60s I had a BSA Road Rocket and a little later a BSA Super Rocket, great bikes I thought at the time but the brakes and road holding were rubbish but when you are a nutcase teenager and no fear of death they were great.
A great time was had by all in the golden days of British bikes ,if you disliked the bike you owned or fancied a change it was all O.K. because bikes were so cheap and running one a lot cheaper than a car . Just about everybody and his Uncle owned Triumphs or the odd BSA ,the old pre - units were great and proved their reliability in the early days by pulling sidecars .One of my first "big bikes" was a 1960 ex Police 650 it was cheap [£120] leaked oil ,candles would have been better lights than the one"s - fitted and the handling was - so ,so as it was a rare duplex frame Triumph .One of the best Triumphs I owned was a 1958 5T Speedtwin , closely followed by a Unit construction T 100 and a new TR 6 . All the family were bikers ,and my late wife"s parents had a 650 Goldflash BSA with double adult . My Brothers had Vincents , Velocettes ,Enfields mostly rode with L plates fitted in the late 50s without Helmets - till they came in during 1973 . I could probably count the really reliable stuff on one hand ,the problem was in those days ,most lads did their own spannering ,nobody could afford garage prices ,so most repairs were rough & ready with poor tools . A surprise was how good a 1960s Enfield Interceptor I bought off dealer in 1970 - was ,ran it for ages till it succumbed to my constant thrashing and blew a big end . We eventually started using Jap machines and even Harley"s my youngest Brother has a collection of Bikes and so have I , big customs and even a Kawasaki 1000 ex - Highway Patrol U.S. Police Bike I use all year round ,even in my mid 70s . - Great review and its always good to get a Bikers insight from other lands ,ride safe & ride happy 🏍.
No Royal Enfield Interceptor? Maybe the best looking of all the ‘60s bikes and fast. I do agree, the best overall was the Bonneville. I had a Sportster and a Bonneville back then and if I had to pick I’d take the Triumph, but the Harley was a lot of fun also.
And what about the BMW R69S? THE touring bike in Europe back in the day. And used by very many Police forces. The V7 was Italian's answer to this machine. Italy also had the Laverda 750, an awesome bike that booked many long distance race wins in its SFC form. Your overview seems to focus on the British bikes and Harley's. Back in the day both species with questionable reliability...
pretty sure the Beemer was a 600cc and Laverda's were not easily obtainable, it is impossible to include every single bike manufactured, most popular yes but not all. Its in the video description.
What have we lost when we compare '60s iron to the modern rockets? The importance of light weight. In general modern bikes are far too heavy. Why has this happened? It's due to the disappearance of winding roads that demand handling. Check out the current videos that show modern bikes motoring along straight line M roads or Autobahns without a bend in sight. The wonderful handling of the Norton featherbed was a source of delight. It's gone.
