The Big House 4 - Leffen (Fox) Vs. Shroomed (Dr. Mario) - Winners Round 1 - SSBM 

+AZaxe Let's be honest, it still was legendary. XD

beeWesley same here!

You're legendary

gg

W

This is a god tier pun. Layers on layers

fantastic

ayy

+EonSword yooo hypeeee

Gaara destroys rock lee

but rock lee showed that he wasnt someone easy to beat

But leffen tried hard to be good, and gaara had his power without trying

frame-perfect

this breaks my heart. love the doc like no other

this breaks my heart. love the doc like no other

+Luke Piper No Johns.

+Luke Piper thats what shroomed gets for putting himself at a disadvantage

Wait, Shroomed doesn't play Doc at all anymore?

It was confirmed multiple times that he did not go for that.

I think so. It looks like that

+OMGItsAllen Yeah, it's the stublet on the fountains. Imagine if a doc player used that as a surprise though lol

Wow this is why this game is the best! Physics are crazy!

ya he shouldn't have. he could have won. :[

He wanted that reverse up+b cancel to reverse the pressure and then use it to combo into something else, but he reverse up+b'd but didn't put the input in fast enough so instead he just got punished. A shame, really. If he capitalized off of that he would've been a legend.

I talked to Shroomed in person and he said that he did that cuz he knew leffen wouldn't drop it and he hoped leffen wouldn't expect it and not tech.

Because Shroomed is really the only Doc to ever have notable tourney success while there are plenty of notable Fox mains. The tier list merely reflects that.

BHawksFan01 I main dr.mario. :D not really a melee champion tho xD

BHawksFan01 it's unfortunate that because Fox is viewed as the best, many people automatically starts off using the character in tournament. I'm okay with that for sure, but I get super hyped when players like Shroomed, HugS, or Bizarro do their thing with mid tier characters. ;)

BizerkPixel It's definitely a topic that is misunderstood a lot. One example is that people think a character higher in a tier list will always beat a lower tier, when in fact the matchup might be even or favor the lower tier character (ex. Ice Climbers are 6-4 vs Sheik).

BHawksFan01 Also, Young Link v Ice Climbers or Peach. Axe and Armada pull out the Yung Link sometimes.

Frost Wolfe Yup

His contact fell out

Viktor Alsos lol woa

Damnit I would retaliate with how stupidly broken Fox is, but I don't have the energy. This comment is just, eugh.

Which move is broken for fox

Whatever ignorance is bliss

1 right below S means a lot more than you might think. There's a reason he isn't at the bottom of S, and it's because S Tier = Top Tier, A Tier = Viable, B Tier = Not Viable, F Tier = Gutter Trash. It would be easier to see if it wasn't structured like it is, but there's a giant difference between the bottom of S and the top of A.

Lol, I knew I would get that response from somebody. But, Melee's tier list is very broad, meaning that it is very easy to have different opinions on where the characters stand within the A and B tier. You're right in the sense that F tier is the garbage tier (XD), and the S tier is the top tier. These are two categories that can't really be interpreted differently because it's blatantly obvious who's good and who sucks. But you can look at the A tier as high instead of mid, and the B tier as mid instead of low. What's weird though is that Prog once said that IC's were by no means considered a top tier character even though they're in S. That's just one example of how broad and open to discussion Melee's tier list is. But as a Doc main myself, I believe that he's just a slower C. Falcon with a projectile and a better meta-game suited for me to explore. But anyway, my point is just that I don't agree with Scar's opinion of Doctor Mario.

Waddle Derp Yeah I agree with you, but I think that even though the good doc. can compete with characters like Sheik, Fox, Captain Falcon, etc. playing him is putting yourself at a serious disadvantage. I think if Shroomed can do well with Dr. Mario, they can do twice as good with an S Tier. In my eyes, losing to a Dr. Mario (or any non-S character) with Fox means that if you had gone against that same person in an even fight, it would have been a 1 sided, 4 stock massacre. xD

Shuv I would have to disagree. What about a character like Samus? She is considered to have even matchups versus Fox, Falco, Peach, and an advantageous matchup versus IC's. She is ranked below Doc. The tier list isn't near as unbalanced as you think.

StatusC Well I don't think SSBM is "very" unbalanced, I just believe that in the particular case of Dr. Mario, playing against any high-tier other than maybe Jigglypuff is putting himself at a significant enough of a disadvantage to be noted. I don't expect the game which wasn't expected to be competitive to be perfectly balanced, but it should at least be noted how his chances of winning would go fairly higher with a different character. Also, any top player could easily switch over to Marth and Shroomed would be out for good.

I think that's what he was going for.

Wat

+Nit Bean He's basically saying that it is amazing, but unbalanced as fuck.

Eddie The Internet Pacifist I would be inclined to disagree with that analysis. Fox is balanced in the sense that it's incredibly hard to play him, and at a human level he's not unbeatable in the slightest. Especially when you're playing a matchup you don't know (like doc) playing a spacie can be hard because every char has like a gaurenteed 0-45% on you lol

Nit Bean I agree with Fox. If you suck as him, you may as well use Kirby. Some people think all you have to do to do those tech's with the Reflector (more commonly known as the shine) is press down B and then just do an attack. I'm dead serious. I've never played Melee in my life (Born too late) but when some options with the shine are so difficult to pull off that it hurts one of the Five Gods (MewTwoKing), you know it's advanced.

Hyper Kirby That upsmash is why I hate fox. I wish everyone used the PAL version :(

Hyper Kirby He didn't even DI... he got hit earlier by an upsmash at a higher percentage and died.

he told me why he did it. he was like let me upb out, so i can get out the drill,infinite. at lower % cause up-smash wont kill at 70 ish the irony was it killed it anway and leffen dropped it to =/

Edson Charlotin That's what I figured

He had bad DI because he was holding up, I think he would have lived DI'ing out.

it's not as easy as he makes it look

+jonlin1000 lol thank you for the explanation, but I was just simply quoting HomeMadeWaffles' memorable commentary around 10:40 :)