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The Bigger Picture Conference: Preliminary Findings from Online Trans/Detrans Communities

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Eliza Mondegreen shares her preliminary research findings
on the impact of online trans and detrans
communities on attitudes, beliefs, and knowledge
about gender. Discover how these communities
address questions, doubts, and uncertainty
surrounding trans identity and transition.
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Опубликовано:

13 окт 2023

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Комментарии : 86

@alexandragrace8164 9 месяцев назад

Eliza, as a lesbian who really struggled with belonging and self esteem and body hatred as a tomboy teenager and survivor of child abuse, I can’t thank you enough for your important work.

@howardhutton6806 6 месяцев назад

You were not at risk for becoming Trans let alone medicalizing yourself into another sex. Not even most Trans people medicalize. What does happen is that lots of transitioners desist because of lack of support and then retransition later if they survive their lack of support, which can be crushing. Their is little more like religion than this immoral panic turned social contagion. And this is always how it works. The flailing silly emotional narratives to attack those who have finally found enough pride in themselves to ask for what they need against all odds.

@relax_enjoy_English 9 месяцев назад

I was in a religious cult for many yrs and a big part of cult life was senior members assuaging doubts about whether it was the right thing

@Ifailedeverything 5 месяцев назад

I follow a lot of ex-cult and ex-fundamentalist channels and there are so many parallels with this. “Doubt your doubts” is well known adage.

@Gingerblaze 9 месяцев назад

There is a particular very young ftm trans influencer who has an entire video about how to ignore doubts and "intrusive thoughts" or "regrets". Its really quite something to see. Worse are all the young ppl in the comments who are the "influenced"... some who had been beginning to consider detransitioning but switched back to continuing on despite their doubts and medical and mental health issues having become worse.

@robertmarshall2502 9 месяцев назад

I once spoke on reddit, before being banned permanently for the crime of saying that a mod shouldn't state that either you accept J K Rowling is extremely transphobic or they'll ban you, to a non-binary trans man who was incredibly adamant to me about her beliefs and how she was a man because she'd got legal recognition and that affirmative care worked. In a different post a few months earlier she'd explained that she was regretting taking testosterone, she'd had unwanted side effects, her gender identity had shifted to non-binary but now she was thinking she didn't like appearing masculine, that she might have made irreservsible changes, her mental health was getting worse not better, her problems might be more centred around issues with sexuality, trauma and SA etc. All the responses were all basically the same themes. Doubts are normal, you have to keep going, things will get better when you get the surgery, you are a man but also if you're non-binary that doesn't matter because the solution is the same, if you stop now it'll be very difficult to get support again because of waiting lists, don't worry I'm sure you look like a man/pass/are handsome even though no picture was provided. Not one single person tried to actually address the issues or deal with the red flags even if only to say, maybe you should talk this through with your therapist or take a pause to think about what you should do next. I'm sure some ppl felt that way but they either didn't comment, got banned if they did, or commented something they didn't fully believe because they're trying to convince themselves of the same ideas.

@chrisbfreelance 9 месяцев назад

Reddit (I'm band too) is an indoctrination petri dish for indoctrination. You see the radicals telling young teens to cut contact with their parents, it's a grooming power trip. And of course you get banned so it's impossible to challenge the narrative.

@877swissmiss 9 месяцев назад

I answer some questions on reddit too, of ppl who obviously hesitated, were very unsure. I told them to never rush into med treatment that is irreversible! You probably can imagine what most readers there made of it😢

@robertmarshall2502 9 месяцев назад

@@877swissmiss What I find bizarre is that there's an answer within their own ideology that doesn't require medical intervention. They could say, you don't need the medical intervention to be trans, and still adhere to the faith. But they don't, they all urge each other onward to the end of the cliff and then ignore anyone who falls off.

@chrisbfreelance 9 месяцев назад

@robertmarshall2502 They genuinely don't care about the individual, it's a power trip and they feed off of the control and manipulation. There are suicide forums that do the same, it's absolutely heinous.

@happynjoyousnfree 9 месяцев назад

"You are supposed to think only approved thoughts." This phrase alone raises anxiety in me. It brings me back to when I was a Mormon as a young adult and believed that I had to be thinking the right thoughts every moment of the day. Pureness of thought is a religious requirement.

@barboglesby2162 6 месяцев назад

Pureness of ideological thought is also the peer pressure of Marxism and other totalitarian ideologies. Questioning and disobedience are not allowed.

@wraykoepke3515 9 месяцев назад

It seems like a lot to go through just to feel like a fake.

@sheilaoreilly6826 9 месяцев назад

Sunk cost fallacy, eh!?

@baconsarny-geddon8298 9 месяцев назад

But they only figure that out AFTER irreversibly mutilating themselves. And to some extent (especially with the young ones), you can't even blame them- They're surrounded by peers, respected professionals, schools, academia, all of mainstream news media AND entertainment media, the biggest corporations on earth, and state and federal governments, all affirming the idea that this is NEVER a bad decision; You totally CAN change sex, and become (somehow?!?) MORE of a woman/man, than an actual woman/man. From OUTSIDE the ideology, it's easy to see how much of an insane, gaslit fantasy all that is (and if you're past 25, you really should know better). But if you've been taught to hugbox yourself, since your teens, how much blame do you have?

@browndoc 9 месяцев назад

If I've learned anything from meditation, it's that such a firm focus on one's identity, is not only non helpful, but it's a recipe for depression. It's the epitome of ego, which seldom leads to a healthy mental predicament, and predominantly the opposite. It screams of everything that's wrong with this superficial, adolescent position.

@meretriciousinsolent 9 месяцев назад

For a talk centred around reddit posts, that was tremendously poignant. Love Eliza's work.

@ALinn-vr3nl 9 месяцев назад

Eliza, thank you. I always think your blog posts are brilliant, and this especially so. This video is just about, or is, the most important piece of information to give to doctors and the general public, about the doubt that gets denied or dismissed thanks to a heavy dose of guilt and peer pressure to keep up the facade, and to perpetuate the myths of "born this way" and the permanency of this socially contagious psychological problem. I hope many people will forward this to MDs, pediatricians, politicians, etc. Thank you again.

@nastja33 9 месяцев назад

this work is so valuable. thank you Eliza.

@lessons9745 9 месяцев назад

Sad state of affairs.. Train yourself out of your doubts that you're actually trans .. Wow

@user-ll9wh4jt2k 9 месяцев назад

Important insights. I hope this message reaches the people who need to hear it.

@randomtanjnt9441 8 месяцев назад

Being sure you're trans means you're trans. Doubting you're trans means you're trans. I am glad that my sanity is not broken enough to accept their false reality. Thank you for informing people about this madness; it will help me to protect my kids.

@theresearcher253 5 месяцев назад

It's the original Catch 22 / Double Bind mind f***.

@t-timewithartemis4174 7 месяцев назад

This is the kind of madness that can occur with such a powerful tool as the brain, when critical thinking and emotional regulation skills are neither taught nor supported from youth on up.

@nicolepreou6754 9 месяцев назад

Utterly heartbreaking 💔💔💔

@marielong8969 9 месяцев назад

excellent presentation

@georginawhitby1320 9 месяцев назад

Thank you for important work.

@sincerityissacred5101 7 месяцев назад

Great Job, Eliza! Incredibly important research. You'll need to get this published anywhere and everywhere you can.

@ruthhorowitz7625 9 месяцев назад

What I have heard from older transsexuals who went through all the gatekeepers is that they had no doubts, they were driven to change, they had to change. If you're having doubts, there's a good chance you're not trans.Trans. The fact that they call it internalized transportation is heartbreaking, and shows how brainwashed they are.

@clarebear764 9 месяцев назад

Many many detranisioners talk about how sure they were, how they had no doubts whatsoever.

@Engrave.Danger 9 месяцев назад

@@clarebear764that tends to be the case with self-diagnosing anything. Munchausen's people don't have to fake symptoms once they're convinced.

@roleat 9 месяцев назад

Absolute fallacy garbage you're spouting. There is no "true trans" those in the past were a small fetish community and now it is wide spread.

@Gingerblaze 9 месяцев назад

Elder transvestites will talk privately about their regret, however for post op transitioned people, they depend on exogenous hrt as they can no longer produce their own naturally. In many instances, these are not covered by insurance if they detransition. Just recently Oregon voted down a motion that insurance should cover detransition healthcare. However, "affirmitive transition" procedures are covered. Many trans identifying people can not medically detransition even if they want to.

@Joy-kc5xz 9 месяцев назад

Nobody is truly "trans" There's no such thing as a "gender soul" in the body. There are men pretending to be women and women pretending to be men, using various means to do so (clothing, hormones, cosmetic surgeries, a combination of all three.)

@browndoc 9 месяцев назад

I'll add to that, with the observation, that all of these so called ultra unique people, are so alike, it's mind boggling, and they're extremely shallow to boot. They're literally just toddlers throwing tantrums at this stage.

@theresearcher253 5 месяцев назад

I read a powerful story written by an anorexic who finally managed to cure herself, after three times in a clinic, when she opened her eyes and actually saw the other girls in the clinic and realised she was nothing special about her and that actually there was a horrible banality about her situation.

@allenoverall7361 7 месяцев назад

Kinda crazy that after years of examples of cults people are still falling for the same thing. And its always people that are in a state of change or confusion

@theresearcher253 5 месяцев назад

This is particularly toxic for young girls who don't fit the traditional stereotype or even just find it difficult to fit in with their peer groups. I know one young lady who was only saved from the trans gender ideology cult by the fact that she'd been a part of some quite fundamentalist Christian communities in her childhood. Her final word on the subject was, 'I was able to spot a cult because I'd already been part of one'.

@pseudonamed 5 месяцев назад

more people need to hear the stories of detransitioners

@helenromanelli2544 6 месяцев назад

The more learn about this foul ideology, the more malign it appears and the sicker I feel...

@theresearcher253 5 месяцев назад

The nastiest trick they were able to pull was to convince so many people (and institutions) that they were the kind and compassionate people and that anyone who disagreed with them were mean and bigoted.

@canuckzed 9 месяцев назад

I recognize so much of this language from the failed addiction recovery model playing out everywhere. I was born this way, it's not my fault. The surgeries are like the steps. The group is the higher power. Addiction and trans share many things. But mental illness is a key part of both. Anyone else see this?

@RyanMoodyFishing 9 месяцев назад

No it’s nothing like the steps. Perhaps have a read of them then and see if you can recognise some of the principles I have set out below. The steps are about anonymity in its deepest form. Being a worker among workers. Serving your community instead of constantly thinking about yourself. It’s about recognising your selfishness when insisting others do it your way. It’s about divorcing your thoughts from self pity, dishonest or self seeking motives. It’s the ultimate empowerment. It’s about accepting yourself as you are and also accepting others whom opinion you do not share. (Actually ultimately it’s about not necessarily even having opinions).

@canuckzed 9 месяцев назад

@@RyanMoodyFishing How about step 1, admitting you are powerless and your life is unmanageable? How is telling a sick person that "empowering"? Where is the evidence it works? Even AA admits less than 5 percent success. Also, they claim to be 'born that way'. Again, no evidence of that after a century of study. Compare the 'spiritual awakening' of an alcoholic to the euphoria or these trans people, going through surgery and steps in a ritual only they truly belong to. Try sharing your experience, strength and hope if you get sober without the cult, and they kick you out, much like detransitioners. And step 12, to spread the message in all their affairs, means most people working in the industry are former addicts with a financial interest in perpetuating the failed model that relies on, and predicts, relapse, suicide, and failure. Sick people deserve better. And families and taxpayers should demand more.

@ALinn-vr3nl 9 месяцев назад

@@RyanMoodyFishing Any process that encourages people to not have opinions, or results in that, should be a huge red flag. To me, everything about those particular addiction "step" programs (the famous organization), is problematic. I'm curious to learn if there are more analogies to what is problematic in both.

@ALinn-vr3nl 9 месяцев назад

Thank you for this. The surgeries are like steps: in what way, please? I'm curious if there are other analogies you see between the two. Are 12-step programs being more heavily critiqued and replaced with other approaches than was the case in, say, the 1980s? I've seen other recovery models that were much more rational and intelligent than those famous step programs, which to me always seemed completely irrational and awful.

@RyanMoodyFishing 9 месяцев назад

@@ALinn-vr3nlit may seem problematic to you haha. But they’ve gotten millions of people sober, who are now leading useful productive lives. Not the only path to be sure. But a very effective one for those drawn to it.

@ahighhorseman 6 месяцев назад

Tragic.

@dimercamparini 5 месяцев назад

So basically is a self-fulfilling prophecy...you even mildly think that you could be T is the automatic proof that you are definitely T 100%... :DDDDDD

@HowardSchoonover 9 месяцев назад

The most remarkable thing about this talk is the sound of the audience laughing. We are asked to believe that these people see this issue as a kind of contagious disease, they see it as harming people, but really it's just a bunch of funny jokes to them. They communicate entirely in dog whistles, subtext. If you know you know, you laugh at the jokes which you will insist everyone else treat as serious concerns.

@robertmarshall2502 9 месяцев назад

You mean when they laughed at the irony of "don't stop believing"? Or the irony of "imposter syndrome"? You could hear a pin drop when she was going through the heartbreaking words of distressed girls. Do you not find it concerning?Are you saying it isn't serious?

@baconsarny-geddon8298 9 месяцев назад

At least they aren't like the trans scene, who responds to concerns, not with subtle, esoteric "dog-whistles", only visible to the elite few, but with OPEN mockery, completely UNDISGUISED contempt and hatred, and SHOUTED threats of violence against women ("stab a TERF today!!", "punch TERFS in the face!!"), often from men with criminal convictions for violence against women; Male violence against women, which is openly CELEBRATED by mainstream trans activists (like when three young men beat up 60yo Maria McLashlan. Or when a mob of young men assaulted Kellie Jane Keen, also around 60, and barely 5ft tall- Both met with near-universal celebration, from the "just be kind" trans activist scene...) But boo hoo, someone in the audience DARED to titter?!? OMG this is the greatest injustice in human history!!! CLEARLY this is a fascist, nahtzee, far-right hate-group...

@kyoglesage 9 месяцев назад

You’ve completely misread the room. The laughter was laughing *with*, not *at*. The whole of your post leads me to suspect you’re watching through a warped lens.

@donjindra 9 месяцев назад

Most audience laughs were about the absurdity and irrationality of the trans "advice" being given to doubters. You created a fantasy about what really happened in that room which may be part of a general need for fantasy to support the absurd trans ideology.

@barboglesby2162 6 месяцев назад

It is normal for humans to relieve tense situations and highly serious information with laughter. It may seem inappropriate at times, but it is the body's healthy way of relieving pressure. Crying is another way, but people don't always feel comfortable crying in public. Unfortunately, the Left is on a mission to destroy mental and physical health at all levels. That is why the WOKE have abolished humor except for the most childish and slapstick variety. They'd do better mentally to lighten up.

@aaronbernal3189 9 месяцев назад

"Preliminary Findings".... proceeds to do nothing but read quotes, real "academic" work here, my god

@kyoglesage 9 месяцев назад

All academic work and research *starts* with the roots of the matter which, in this case, lies in observing the questions and doubts expressed by people at the very edge of making life-changing decisions. Did you not read the video’s title?

@aaronbernal3189 9 месяцев назад

@@kyoglesage not sure what is your point, wherever academic work may start, passing off quotes as "preliminary findings" is some lazy freshman stuff tbh

@netizencane3717 9 месяцев назад

Don’t feed the trolls folks. This person isn’t upset about any perceived lack of rigor. They’re upset about the findings. I mean they’re out there trying to cancel academics who publish strong studies that go against the trans fantasy. Years of work with solid methodologies and good statistical power are not enough for them so of course they would attack a preliminary finding.

@aaronbernal3189 9 месяцев назад

@@netizencane3717 what are the findings? who am I trying to cancel? what are the "years of work"? lol wtf

@mikescollard6499 6 месяцев назад

@@aaronbernal3189She is shedding light on the self reinforcing nonsense that these trans people can't even comprehend as nonsense.

@marti7343 9 месяцев назад

Ok, so what are you supposed to do? You have internalized transphobia, imposter syndrome, intrusive thoughts. You wanted to be the opposite gender from before you entered puberty. Your identity as the gender opposite your birth gender has developed over many years. You feel trapped in the wrong body. You lived a life in a melancholic fog. You spent between ten to fifteen years in psychotherapy and psychoanalysis. You started to transition later in life. You feel happier and more connected than ever you have been since starting your transition. Oh, so you are just a victim of the media hype and online communities about the trans movement. You are just a victim of trauma and need to accept and live as your birth gender even though that makes you feel worse. You are told by professionals your feelings about being trans and being trapped in the wrong body will not cease with therapy. You hear other trans people experiences and how for nearly all of them (especially MtoF) transition has helped them live happier lives. You are better for having started your transition. Oh, but, you are not really trans and just deluded. You are really autogynaphilic. Live with it! I watched Eliza’s video and at first thought she was a supportive trans activist until she says at the end “How detransitioners learn to live with reality, rather than disown it. I think these stories show there is a way out of doubt.” When I listen to detransitioners I think they may feel less doubtful, but they do not seem happier having detransitioned. I’ll acknowledge that for young girls who think they are FtoM transgender it can be complicated to sort out if they are actually trans rather than struggling with accepting the difficulties of becoming women. Even for MtoF young people, there needs to be a lot self-reflection and exploration to determine if they are actually trans. But, trans identity is real and has been around since humans have. Transitioning can help trans people lead better lives. Maybe not perfect ones, but certainly better ones.

@miroirs-jumeaux 8 месяцев назад

I think Eliza _is_ supportive. She's been on a lot of podcasts, you can watch a few and give her a chance. She's seemed full of compassion, and insight, for years that I've been aware of her. Give her a chance, if you don't like what she's got to say you can comment again. Let's hear from each other!

@marti7343 8 месяцев назад

I hope you read my entire comment. Eliza says at the end “How detransitioners learn to live with reality, rather than disown it." I am trans and live in reality. If I denied I am trans and chose not to transition I would not be owning my reality. I did that for many years. My reality tells me I need to transition. I am happier and a better person now. I think most transgendered people who transition will tell you the same thing. I appreciate you are ready to listen.@@miroirs-jumeaux

@pseudonamed 5 месяцев назад

There are multiple reasons why different people end up feeling dysphoria, and so there are multiple solutions to that discomfort. For some it may be best to transition, but for many they would be better served in other ways. But currently there is only one path that is being pushed for everyone and it often ignores other issues that need to be resolved first.

@marti7343 5 месяцев назад

If a person is trans and suffering from gender dysphoria medical professional experts have advised transitioning is a good option. Certainly, a person should examine for themselves and with help of a professional, if they are actually trans or there is some other reason for their discontent with their gender. If they persist with their dysphoric feelings or insist on a particular gender, they are trans. Ultimately, in a free society informed consent must be respected. Please be careful when you emphasize in your arguments how transition is not for everyone without being clear that for most people claiming they are trans their feelings are honest and valid and transition is most often the best option for them. If you do not, what you say likely will be used by transphobic people to erect barriers harmful for trans people.@@pseudonamed

@theresearcher253 5 месяцев назад

You sound like one of the very few 'genuine' trans people. 20 years ago it was almost exclusively mtf transitioners who had felt dysphoria from a very early age. How does it serve your interests that your condition has been hijacked by men with kinks and sold to girls with complex mental health conditions as a cure all?