The Carbon Fiber Printer: Markforged's Mark Two review! 

The amazing discourse about patents and the comparison with FDM and open-source was the best part of this awesome video. This is an issue about which other 3d printing youtubers do not care enough.

Thomas - I love the crisp, clean look you've achieved with your video nowadays. This is the kind of review where I want to be able to see the details and it's a real treat being able to see everything so clearly, nicely focussed, hi res, good colour balance - you clearly put the effort into making it look good as well as getting the content right. So thank you!

I looked at this briefly for orthotics... Great to see a review, matches my (limited info) impression. What I'd really like to see is a continuous fibre printer that doesn't limit itself to layers, but instead uses a 5-axis head to build a model in 3D, from the inside out...

I really want to see if I can build some sort of homebrew fiber-filling extruder. I'd probably need a lot of time, but I think it would be doable.

Dingleberry! lol, first time I've heard a beautiful Pelican case referred to as a dingleberry but, in context, an accurate assessment. Also, 10 points for your ethical stance re patent application and use of open source. You have something of the Stallman of 3d printing about you, a very good thing.

Great video Thomas, I just received my Enterprise Mark 2 and I am just blown away. Superior build quality combined with amazing software and you have a great printer setup. I have the Mark X on tap for 4th quarter this year. Thanks again, keep up the great work.

I agree, I'd love to see what the 3D printing community could do with open source continuous fiber fabrication. In time, I suppose.

I went to a maker space in Tacoma, Washington, and they had this printer there. I got to hold and feel some of the parts that came off of that printer. All I can say is wow.

When low-end 3D printers will become this nice for some hundred bucks 3D printing will be for everyone.

The Metal X looks really interesting. You can print yourself a metal mold and then injection mold yourself your part. Awesome.

Wow funny that i get this as an remommended video. Because is actually worked with this machine in late 2016. Its crazy how strong the parts with carbon fiber inlay are.

This was a great review. Very balanced with the pros and cons without completely bashing the product or praising it.

Controller is a BBB(?) running Linux, I hope they disclosed the GPL source code (or reference to it) somewhere, as per the license requirement.

Looks like they are trying to be the apple of 3D printing industry. Can't wait for someone like Prusa or some random tinkerer to make a kit version of this

It's reviews like this Thomas, that assure me that you are one of the most open, and ethical 3D printing RU-vid commentators. You're handed what appears to be an incredible tool, I'm sure with the hope that you'll do them favours, and while you don't tear them to shreds, you specifically comment about their failure to note the open source development that led to their designs, and you complain about their patents, which are potentially holding back further innovation. You do your research, and criticise specifically where it's fair to do so.

On another topic, this machine is great but.... the strength (pun intended?) in using fiber in a structure comes from overlaying it in several different orientations. This printer is only able to lay it along the tool path, reducing the ability to strengthen a component... so is the fiber laying ability really just an expensive gimmick in the end? If the printing table had it's own 3 - 6 DoF (degree of freedom) then the printer could stop, re-orient the part (table) and then lay a new layer in a different orientation. That would make the printer stand out. And BTW guys, that's how you innovate when faced with patents... you make the design better. It's hard to do nowadays, but that was the original intention of patents, before they were corrupted. - Eddy

I own 2 Onyx Pro's and one Mark 2- totally love them- I use them for printing parts that I design and sell. Great video.

It's way out of my price range but what a nice looking machine. Love the idea of embedding fibers into the plastic. Kinda makes me wonder if there's a mod you could do to other printers to do something similar.

This is like the apple of 3d printers

Brilliant! I am industrial, I have been cautious to purchase a printer, but all barriers are now gone.

I just got my Onyx Pro a week ago and have been running it almost nonstop since. Not a single failed print and I'm almost going to need to order another spool of material. It was really hard to decide between buying the M2 Standard before it got d/c'ed at the end of 2016 as that offered nylon, carbon fiber, and fiberglass, whereas the more expensive Onyx pro only does Onyx and fiberglass, no carbon fiber. That to me feels like an arbitrary restriction for such a price increase. But all things considered, it is a phenomenal printer that simply does things other printers can't. I was expecting the strength, but not the resolution. At 100 micron it looks almost sintered like shapeway nylon. And while you make a lot of good points on patents and such, you have to give the company credit for being significantly less gouging than Stratasys or 3D Systems. $200 for a spool of Onyx is a lot better than a spool of ABS. The nylon could and should be cheaper though. I also wouldn't say that the company is hurting innovation as they are still pushing the envelope with the Metal X. They are hurting competition but that's what patents are for. They have incredibly generous upgrade paths as well, so I'd say they treat their customers right. You know what you were getting going in with material cost, and as long as you are at peace with that, the printer does live up to all its lofty promises in many ways. If you can't afford one and need the capabilities, you can always pay someone else.

I guess I'm the odd-man-out. I don't have a problem with the patents. The company put the money/energy/brains into the tech, they deserve the opportunity to recover those cost and be rewarded for their work. What I have a problem with and really dislike with a passion is the length of these patents, oh and don't get me started on copyright, which is pretty much forever now in the US. Anyway great review Tom, looks like a very impressive machine, too bad you have to send it back.. :-(

I don’t necessarily like the online based slicer, if you loose connection your done, they should also provide a hard drive base software too.

So the secondary material is most likely just a rod of that material with an outer layer of nylon. And it's probably literally just pressed into place with the nozzle. Not that hard to recreate the mechanism, it's literally like a second extruder, but it cuts off what it doesn't need. All you need to do is program the difference of where the nozzle is and program the switch between the two. As for the material itself, not sure how it'd be manufactured. But the mechanism can just be retrofitted to any machine, though you would lose print volume, and you'd need the extra code. As for the nozzle, I'd suggest finding a tungsten carbide, of all the harder materials, that should be the easiest to source.

Do you think we'll see any other materials sent through the fibre nozzle on machines like this in the future? I'm thinking copper wires.

Damn, would have loved to see torture tests on prints :-)

I use this machines. I have 2 of them in my workshop. I make most of the mechanical parts for myprojects with this printers. The problem is that they are noty 100% suitable for small series, since the mechanical parts arte getting weard really fast

really good review Thomas , please keep going !!!

OMG that extruder for the MK2 in Onyx looks awesome. I would love one for mine

Great video. Thank you for this thorough review.

Patents are one of the many things that slow down advancements in science and technology... oh well I guess the arguments can go both ways. I am pro patents-free or defensive patents.

So they use open source/patent free technology as the main platform of operation yet hold the patent for the fiber extrusion head and won't let it out ? Ridiculous. ...Markforged is a company that is less then to be desired after finding out they are holding back humanity's ability to thrive in this arena.

Many many thanks 🌹 This video help me in preparing my thesis....

i support many open source ideas, but i can defend their use of patents on the continuous fiber. i cant imagine the cost it took for a relatively small company to develop that and make it work. i would really like to see them license the ip to others because 3 years down the road, here we are will still only nylon as the impreg material. lets get on with some higher temp materials.

Seems like more of a gamic than anything. The main reason carbon fiber parts are so strong is that it is woven together, and then the hard resin that bonds them together. How can adding some strands in layers melted in some nylon make all the time and money?

Ask them for a review model of the Metal X, Tom! Why settle for Nylons/fiber inlays when you supposedly can print metal filaments in a manner similar to FDM machines?

Tom, how was the dimensional accuracy of the printer? Also on the IDs of holes etc? Thanks. Good work on the video as always.

Wow I was not expecting to see a ATmega2561 inside.

The longevity of Markforged and the patent is a concern considering the investment. I'm going to do a bit more research, but all signs point to yes.

Is there any video that actually shows how carbon fiber fillaments are made? from chopping the carbon to mixing it with Abs, pla, etc. to making it into a spool. Thank u

These would be great if you could mix carbon fibre and kevlar in the same print.

Would be cool to see stress testing of epoxy filled hollow parts.

Have compared this to form 2. They have materials that compare.

Just gotta say that the little bit of experience I have had with this printer was rather poor. I was working at a company that had bought one a few months ago, and they were constantly having issues with it. Even just trying to print straight nylon very rarely worked correctly. Part of this may have had something to do with the people that were trying to operate the printer, but things like warped beds sure didn't help the situation. I never got to actually operate it, but as you said, the print options are pretty limited, so it wouldn't have mattered. Anyways, just my experience and $.02.

As amazing as it is , 14k and no auto bed level ? Come on now thats kind of sad.

Kevlar and bonded nylon thread seem quite cheap, It would be nice to see this on low end fdm printers.

Outstanding review

Patenting a bed screw - these guys are crooks. Seriously. Great review Tom!

I would probably buy this if it wasn’t for the extreme overprice of fiber

Wait, kevlar? oh, you need to do a review on that filament.

Nice review of the Mark Two. I am a bit disappointed that Markforged got rid of the standard and professional versions of this machine and released the Onyx series in their place. Their unique selling point is the CFF process and that is removed from the Onyx One leaving only the ability to print Onyx on a $3500 printer. The value for money just doesn't seem to be there. Same for the Onyx Pro - 7k for only fiberglass? Seems like they really want to up sell you the 13.5k Mark Two so you have access to the entire fiber ecosystem.

*200 dollar prusa* what where can I get a prusa for 1/3 retail

cheers! You rock ... Thanks for keeping it real and honest.

Great demo, thank you!

You should really start to understand why open source is good but there is just no incentive for any company to make any technologically innovative product, especially the low end of innovation, to open patents. Tesla opens their patents because they are very dedicated to their vision but they also know not really anyone can replicate their products. Although CFF is great but some random Chinese company will steal this design in an instant. I support open source but I fully respect companies who lock down innovative products for protection and, well, profit. To cite an example 3DR tanked eventually while they where propped up by the open source Pixhawk autopilot but their eventually downfall is due to their inability to fully monetize their product.

This is what I would expect if Apple ever made a printer!

I think companies need the patent protection, however that is not to say that the patent thing is perfect. How to make it better? 17 years?

0:40 i would heavily disagree, this type of thing is amazing for car and boat parts but it is too expensive for any small shop.

We have one of these here at work. Its a nice machine for sure. I'm not sure I could justify the cost vs. performance relative to other machines for small company or home use. Nice machine... but its it 10K nicer than everything else? The objet's still see the most through put by far in our shop.

Nice use of the word dingleberry.

Macht es einen Unterschied, ob ich die Werbung direkt noch fünf Sekunden, oder zum Beispiel nach einer Minute überspringe? Oder gibt es einfach pauschal Geld für kurz angefangen oder fertig angeschaut? Wieder ein hammer Video btw, super Arbeit ;)

13.000 dollars for a desktop machine that prints carbon and Kevlar reinforced parts is kind of amazing.

That is a such a gorgeous machine. Great review!

Frankly I don't think it would have been all that expensive to inlay small strands of material, like metal wire, into PLA and instructing the printer to fill it into the part with plastic. I do think such a process would require a wider nozzle though (.8mm at the least). The other alternative of course is their patented process, which is to use the heated nozzle of the fiber extruder to melt it into the part. One could create a specialized printer with a very flat hotend or a flat extension of the hotend to melt the material into the print, but then we run into issues of oozing plastic possibly creating an uneven surface for the rest of the print... This was not an easy thing for them to do. I dearly hope that they provide license to use the patent at reasonable fees. That is my biggest issue with patents, it allows such aggressive exclusivity. Mandatory license laws for patents would be good to discuss. Imagine what Josef Prusa could do with this process... if he cared for it...

I really like my MarkForged Mark 2 Enterprise edition printer. Your video was very informative, especially about the Onyx/Nylon print head wearing in time. I'd like to know what options I'd have in therms of post-processing Nylon or Onyx. How would one best smooth it out? Or how about painting it? Printed Nylon and Onyx seems to become more flexible and less brittle when immersed in water, but it also seems to lose some of its shape, if the print is single-wall. I'm very impressed with its impact resistance. I'm experimenting with printing static planes, RC planes, and quad copters, so far with very promising results. I'd just love to know how Nylon likes to be treated over the long term. Crash-resistance in RC planes seems very promising.

Did they patent encasing fiber in filament and then smooshing it onto the print? I feel like a lot of startups in the 3D printing space are patenting common sense stuff.

Hi Thomas, so I saw you printed a new extruder case to the Prusa MkII, right? Please tell me how much difference is this carbon filament in comparison to say the carbon fiber you could print on the Prusa?

I hope you are using this printer to finish some of your homemade printer parts while you have access to it

Hey Tom! I have access to one of these at school. What did you have to change on the drone frame to get carbon infill to work correctly? maybe a short video on optimizing the software to get the best fiber reinforcement?

Is It possible to print only fiber filament without using any Onyx/Nylon core?

Hi there thinking of getting into 3d printing. My projects will involve complex tube shapes. I have sets of complex frame profiles. They are a pain to recreate. Do you know if any of the cad software allows importing image files for easy copying the profiles? Steve

Wow, i wonder what size is the fiberglass filaments? Can i use it on my printer?

oh weird tech company uses open source resources without abiding by the open source license? that's crazy, i've never ever heard of that before

Thomas Sanladerer could you please review the MyMatSolutions Ultra Nylon Filament? Thank you

thank you

it makes more since to get carbon fiber sheets and print around the carbon, it takes more thought put into design but if you want quality product this machine doesn't makes sense to me. cut your carbon skeleton print half ur object, lay the carbon in and finish the object. it's complicated but it's going to be stronger than what this offers.

i'm wondering how long until an open source version of their fiber laying system gets made

Dieter Rams would prove of the aesthetics

Base64 encoded gcode?

What is carbon fiber like? I was thinking of seeing if I cAn ghetto my own fiber layer ;p Ant ideas on how they work?

Any idea what software/libs they've used for the web UI ?

Can I buy that Awesome nylon Box separately? If so, where? The air tight storage/dispenser.

I get the price, but for that price the machine leaves a lot to be desired. H-Bot movement? RC servo actuated cutter? No auto-levelling? Give me a break. Thankfully, for them, it's the good old USPTO to the rescue because of course reinforcing one material with another or using an ironing process to stick one material to another are completely novel concepts.

Hello, I have a 500 dollar budget and I am a novice, can you recommend some 3d printer. I am a polymer clay jewelry artist looking to create simple tools for my craft. ie cookie cutters. In advance thank you for your assistance.

If the filament is hygroscopic, the printed object will be aswell... ???

great printer👍

Frankly, price-tag aside, the closed nature of this whole ecosystem makes me indifferent to it, despite the cool new technology. I want the option to use any slicing software I like, choose my own preferred filament, and tweak low-level settings like temperature. I want the ability to hack the software to my liking and customize my own gcode. This company can't possibly provide everything we might need, and they purposely prevent us from interfacing with third party stuff. In other words, this is not a printer for hackers, even if it could come cheap. And those patents could prevent an open version of this technology to be built for a long time. So at the risk of sounding melodramatic: if those patents are enforced, Markforged is essentially holding humanity back.

The overall design and cloud slicer for this look a LOT like it was based on the failed Zeepro Zim. They have a Boston-area area code, so I assume they're not related to the French company. But the resemblance of hardware and software is uncanny. Anyway, after that company, I wouldn't buy any 3D printer that required a cloud slicer. Eventually, they'll eventually go out of business, or stop supporting it, and you're stuck with a $14,000 paper weight. Or they'll put limits on personal resale of the device, and you won't be able to unload it later to get something else.

Did he say it's 13,000? It's not worth the price tag.

are the patents public? if so does anyone know where to find them?

he said dingleberry...hah...

You had me at that "magnificent piece of engineering". :D Not with the same style of Z axis carriage as those horrible Makerbots, not in this price range.

What does FDM mean?

dingleberry lol good one

From who and from what date are the patents? I've seen threads about this on reprap forum starting at 2010 and 2013 These patents just make me sad. Knowledge is power, so I guess knowledge needs to be controlled and capitalized.

as a owner of the Markforged Mark Two I am VERY disappointed with the Layer interface Surface quality.

as long as it is not possible to use human brains to say where I want the fibers it would not be an Option for me. for me it looks it is well made for Standard strenght Test Parts. i also would like to See a comparisson of Glas fiber to carbon enforced Parts. Glas adds often some flex which can be very welcome in extreme situations. carbon is cool but beside the weight often not that Superior. sorry for the strange Camel capitals. tablet keyboard

Markforged needs to get mushroom slapped.

hmm.. nice one but just one thing, I have no doubt about the quality and R&D that has been done for this product... some people need to print carbon ok... BUT !! 13K$ it's fucking expensive.. I've got a brand new CAR !! yes a car for this fucking price ! and a car have I think more R&D and more guys on the project.. What justifies this price? Some people already live on March, and the saddest are the people who buy at this price ! I live in an idiocracy where is my rope ? EDIT: Tom your work is always on top, No doubt about the quality of your work and the time you spend in.

The patent topic is great, but let's face it, if someone goes through years of expensive hard work and research and finally perfects something revolutionary, can we expect them to just eat that cost and let someone else copy it? They haven't paid for the research, they haven't put in the hard work. No one wants to give great ideas and research away, and for good reason. Why do it in the first place unless you can at least make your money back? Unless you're a philanthropist researcher with independent wealth, giving your research away for someone else to make money on isn't going to happen, and frankly I think that's O.K. While it would be great if we could all share ideas (and this does happen), if someone works hard and makes something great, it's O.K. to make some profit in return!