The Darkness That Comes Before by R Scott Bakker Review (non spoiler) - A new favourite? 

A quick note, I say in the second era of this world there are three books, but it is, in fact, a quartet!

Glad to see people are rediscovering this amazing book series

Welcome to the club! The more eyes on this series the better. Such a hidden gem

Great review! Love your analysis on Bakker's prose. He definitely makes every word count with depth and meaning. Bakker only becomes a better wordsmith as the seven book goes on. The world-building is so good in this series. I like how you brought up the tensions between institutional religions and sorcery, as that was a dynamic I really enjoyed too. It was really nice to hear you talk about some of the philosophical threads that Bakker is pulling on. Many of those themes take on greater perfundity as the characters and plot start to really get moving. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on The Warrior Prophet.

Imo, this is one of the only fantasy series where the prose was just as gripping as the story, rather than being flowery for the sake of flowery. Every sentence was packed with meaning and contemplation, creating a haunting atmosphere of dread and anticipation with complex characters to guide the twisty narrative. It felt like a masterfully crafted psychological horror thriller set in a gritty fascinating world. Absolutely love it and wish it would get more attention. I feel the same way about the Manifest Delusions series by Michael Fletcher.

Thank you for this review! This one was recommended by a bookish friend as their favourite, but it has been sitting on my shelf for years 😬 Maybe now is finally the time. You express your thoughts in such an organized way, great video 👍🏻

HAAAAAA!!!! Finally. So much to say about this masterpiece.

There are seven books. The Prince of Nothing is a trilogy, the Aspect-Emperor is 4 books. The latter is excruciating (in the best possible way). Please join us on the r/Bakker subreddit once you are finished.

TPON and TAE are without a doubt the best fantasy writings ever produced.

I ordered the book before you review was even finished.

@slowlyred has done great work in spreading the word about this series :)

This is the first book series i have read that i would call a masterpiece! the first book in the series is really difficult to get true but, after that the series just gets better and better.

Thanks for the review, I feel like this series has been on my TBR for like five years, I definitely need to get to it.

I've been planning to read this book and I've thoroughly enjoyed your review and analysis of it. Also have to say, glad that I found this channel, its very rare to find someone who is articulate and concise in their reviews/impression while being thoughtful and diagnostic of the books they are reading.

Inrithi definitely based mainly on Chirstianity. Inri Sejenus, the prophets name is a bit of a give away. INRI is a common Latin initialism or acronym (I'm bad at words) translating to “Jesus the Nazarene, King of the Jews.” Sejenus is an anagram of N E JESUS - i.e. Any Jesus. And now I'm gonna have to go back and reread the series, great review!

To me you are the most reliable person when it comes to Dark fantasy books! I know if you Like something I Will definitely Like it too! Great Job our fantasy Queen! 🥰😘

Thanks for this great review, Zara! There are some authors that can craft worlds and characters so rich it captivates us profoundly, and still manage to make us stop abruptly and ponder upon some existential questions. To me, they're the kind that elevate my readings and my perception of the world, my connections to others. Sure, in a way, those are mostly philosophical themes that have been pondered for thousands of years, but it puts them into perspective, it helps figuring out their cyclical/timeless nature. It almost feels like these authors are continuing those discussions that were started ages ago, and making us readers a part of it. And it definitely feels like Baker would be my jam ! 😀

I'm halfway through my re-read and its hitting so much harder. The amount Bakker has set up that'll pay off in these 300 pages alone is wild. I've been especially focusing on Conphas, a therapist would have a field day with him alone.

Great review! Always wanted to read this series, but along with Malazan, they seem so intimidating. One day! So many books, so little time. Be well, stay safe!

I think the book really ‘clicks’ for most readers around the Battle of Kiyuth, that was when I got totally hooked, it’s my favourite series :)

Ahhh finally. An excellent review for the most underrated fiction series in my humble opinion. I even had some minor goosebumps listening Cnaiur's quote about war and how the earth breaks the bones of the men. Its what you very pointfully said about words and their meaning in these books. No other author in the genre had such an impact to me with his writing. The selection of words is brilliant. He style is at the same time beautiful and punching. It has such gravitas that it feels scriptural. He also has an uncanny ability in describing abstract notions and feelings with the perfect words. Things like the distilled tension of a meeting, something in the corner of your awareness, the vertigo of a tresspass and so on. Terrific stuff. Also you will be surprised, the further you read, how meaningful is everything. From the first sentences. The foundations built are strong and purposeful all the way to the end of the Aspect Emperor, thus making these books extremely rewarding when rereading them. I also appreciated much your mention to the actual philosophy themes and influences of Bakker. He is a student and teacher of philosophy. It is his main field along with neurosciences and he does a great and organic work of imbuing them to his world. The philosophy feels like thoughts that have arisen from that special place and its really great how it will slowly connect with the metaphysical aspects too. Also I am really happy how you didnt stay on the mistreatment of women. I always feels the critique is modern biased. This work studies how people mistreat those they can, making no distinctions and it is clearly judgemental of such behaviours. Reading Bakker make me question much more often how I treat other people. Make me more aware to my faults. Make me fruitfully discuss such things with fellow readers many times. I could talk for these books endlessly but lets hope we will have more discussions in your future videos. Hopefully you will enjoy the rest of the books too. For me the Aspect Emperor quadralogy is even better and a really brave effort so different than the vast majority of the genre. An uncompromising, brave and disturbing vision, full of awesome and horrifying revelations and implications. I hope you will get there. Thanx again for this very good review.

Great thoughts. I love Bakker as well. He has such a strong voice right out of the gate; I feel like if you scrubbed away the names I could still identify as piece of writing as his. In addition to everything you said I'll add I like Cnaiür as well. Not in the empathetic way I connect with Akka or Esmi, but as a really "fun" deconstruction of the Conan archetype. All the martial skill, none of the confidence; can hack his way through an army but can't sit quietly in a room alone.

For me it's Nietzsche meets fantasy

This is a fantastic review, gave me different perspectives on the book. I hope to start book 2 soon

Nice review. I just read book 2 and my opinions on a lot of things in book 1 changed. Still loved it. Maybe even more. There is so much subtlety. I would probably need to read it read it multiple times to fully get it. I am reading book 3 soon. Great stuff.

I just ordered the first trilogy, can't wait to get into it. Y'all are hyping the fuck outta this series... and I'm quite hyped myself ngl, nothing like a new _dark_ fantasy world.

I recently got into fantasy because I was only reading psychological thrillers and I really like Abercrombie's writing and characters! Wheel of time first book on the other hand was torture and I won't continue the series! That book is one of the most boring shit I've ever read! You are really eloquent in your reviews and I will try Scott Bakker! 😊

Thanks for the video review! A great series. I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on book one, and look forward to hearing more as you continue through the series.

This is such a great review! I’ve never heard of this trilogy, as I don’t read much fantasy, but you had me at philosophy and I love a dark narrative.

Hi 👋 good review video!! 🎬🎥

Great review! I agree especially on the appreciation of characters. I don't need characters that are likeable, just compelling. And these are. I really enjoy Akka and Esmi's connection and their scenes together. I'm currently halfway through The Warrior Prophet and enjoying it.

Yes, violence is not about any collective, is just another tool for the sake of survival, power or self confidence in a different era than today. What stand out for me is the aura in all these books especially TDTCB(i havent seen this anywhere else) that made them depressing as fuck, and not even talking about the dark moments. Im talking about daily life moments in "safe" places like in Sumna, Carythusal or Momemn. Is a strange aura in which the religion fervor rules all of human souls even in their daily routines. I would even prefer to live in the trackless steppe or hidden in the mountain like an hermit, than to live inside that aura. Along with some dostoievsky stuff, the Second Apocalypse is the greatest thing i ever read in my life

Good review, Zara! I just finished reading "The Broken Empire" trilogy, and I have been thinking about my next "grimdark" to read being either this one or "Heroes Die".

Great review, Zara! You brought up a lot to appreciate in Bakker's prose and depth of worldview explored! I studied a little bit of philosophy and always appreciate philosophical questions explored in fantasy. I'm very tempted to read this at some point. There is an intense amount of violence-especially sexual violence-that turns people off of Malazan. I was able to stomach it because I had a sense of Erikson's intentions and know he's written essays regarding this subject. I think as long as the author includes this kind of content responsibly with purpose and social consciousness, there can be a place for it. If it's done to elicit a sort of perverted excitement or fascination, that's when I feel like a line has been crossed for me personally. I loved hearing your perspectives on this book and know other friends have been completely blown away with this series. I will go in with an open mind hoping for the best if I read this book someday!

Great review! Looking forward to your thoughts on the next one!

Amazing review lovely Zara as Always! I finally read this book and omg it was fantastici! I'm thinking about it all time! It consumed all my time and head space! Can't wait to read the next one in the series!

Great review. I appreciated the take on how difficult it can be to initially get into. As to how rewarding it can be for those who stick to it... I guess you'll find out two books later. Or six. (Honestly, the second series is even better than the first one.)

I too got into this series thanks to Slowly Red. So glad your enjoying the series. As much as I love this series I don't know if I can recommend it to people lol Achamian is honestly one of my favourite characters, not just in Fantasy. I also love Esmenet whose my 2nd favourite after Achamian. I took a break from Malazan after the 6th book The Bonehunters, I read Books 3-6 close together so I needed a breather. And Prince of Nothing I immediately picked up and it quickly became one of my favourite trilogies, I just prefer the Second Apocalypse as a whole slightly more than Malazan. In terms of comparisons to Malazan, Prince of Nothing is more clear. Still nuanced, complex and richly detailed but clearer than Malazan. Both Bakker and Erikson have different approaches, Bakker from a philosophical perspective, Erikson from a post-modern anthropological perspective. I love both series dearly, each are in my Top 5 favourite Fantasy series of all-time. I couldn't get Prince of Nothing out of my mind, so I picked up Aspect-Emperor and binged it. Bakker continually blew me away. Bakker's exploration of religion and belief is honestly some of the best I've read. I believe this world has been in his head since he was a teenager.

this is my favorite fantasy series, thanks for giving it such a thoughtful review.

Aw yeah, this series is a wild ride. Intense and interesting. A bit violent and graphic in parts. Bold of you to pronounce all these character names! LOL

Thanks !!!

I had the same issue when I started this series. So much information is being presented. In a way, it reminds me of the first time I played Dark Souls. You're sort of thrust into this hostile world, and have to try and find a way to get your footing. One you do, there's not much else than can compare, imo. Later on, the phrase "The Slog of Slogs" is featured in the books. It is certainly by design that Bakker chose that phrase. The series is a slog in parts. I think I enjoyed the challenge.

great review, you nailed it!

Wait till you finish the series...

Thanks for this review Zara! I’ve had this book for a while, and keep saying I’ll start it soon. I need to make good on that haha.

I honestly did not think this was 'grim dark' but maybe that is because I've been desensitized to it in general, bu it is a fantastic book, and I couldn't stopp thinking about it once I had finished it. It got so bad that I stopped another book I had started to I could read the second book in this series instead!

This series sounds perfect for me. Dark fantasy and strong prose is a match made in heaven. And I know exactly what you mean when you say you enjoy more subtle writing. It's far more immersive to me when I'm thrust head first into a world, because it means I _need_ to be an active participant if I want to understand what's going on. It leaves me with a far more memorable experience. A series very worth keeping an eye on is Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe. I just finished the first book and I'm looking back on it like a fleeting dream I'm struggling to piece together. It's one of the coolest, strangest things I've ever read. I'm new to your channel, and I see you've read a lot more Bakker since this video. Would you say you rank him amongst your favourite fantasy authors since starting his work?

As excellent as it was on the initial its even better on re-read. I couldn't help myself and picked up Warrior-Prophet immediately 😅

lol, I first read the darkness that comes before like 15 years ago when I was in 10th grade and the names and dates and places were WAYYYYY too much for me. But now I can’t read authors like Sanderson b/c their proses just feel like rocks and sticks. No matter how great the plot, the material he’s building them with may as well be mud bricks. Very nice review, especially the way you address the controversy regarding the series.

Ooo yay. I never see reviews of these go up. I think it’s great to go in blind, even though it is overwhelming at first. Pretty incredible that this is your first book like this. This is probably my absolute favourite fantasy series, maybe. Top 3 anyhow. And a big part of this is the prose work. I think as the themes progress the misogyny present is what it’s About. It ends up exploring some of the most interesting things of any fantasy series I’ve read. Looking forward to hearing about your thoughts as you make your way through it. The audiobook of just the first trilogy is absolutely fantastic btw. The guy pronounced things correctly (the quartet narrator was terrible and mispronounced most everyone) and he’s just a fantastic narrator, generally. I think they’re only on audible though. The authors last name is actually pronounced back-er, rather than baker.

Nice Review!

Hey Zara, my comment comes a bit late, but I wanted to be able to focus on what you're saying about this book. After a few days of being somewhat distracted, I've finally found time to watch your review at full length. I have to say, this series sounds very interesting! I appreciate that you took the time to highlight and discuss so many aspects of the book. It appears that Bakker is a very intentional writer in every way, which makes him pretty attractive as an author to me. And although these books seem like a "big reading project," I am tempted to pick them up soon. How much of a focus would you say are the characters in these books? I heard that the Malazan books heavily deal with themes but are less focused on characters. (I haven't read Malazan, though.) On the other hand, you mentioned Abraham's LPQ in your review, which, as we know, has a heavy focus on characters. So as someone who is a bit of a "character reader," I'm wondering how much the story in Bakker's books is tied to its characters... In other words, do you think these books are for me? I think you are familiar with my reading taste by now, at least to some extent. :) As always, thanks for this excellent review! I had a great time watching.

Finished this recently and am about 100 pages into WP and also really liking it. Bakker is the love child of Steven Erickson and Gene Wolfe. The former mainly for the writing style and the latter for world building. I really did not find this book as all grim darky as others seem to think it is. It is essentially the Crusades with magic and a Bene Gesserit for lack of a better term. The prophet is named Inri, you have the issues between the Crusaders and the Byzantines. A lot of the events described are variations on historical events and riffs on names which are too numerous to mention. There is a lot of walking and talking but really not a lot of action. Not a fan of the sex scenes but one dud seem necessary if a bit drawn out. The setting is very medieval so is medieval by definition grimdark? I do like Esmenet as a character. But the two female POVs are a prostitute and a rape victim and secondary women mentioned are a mixture of the two can be off putting. But yes, I also really liked it and curious to see where it goes. One item that I do find a little distracting is his use of modern or 'real' words in a fantasy setting. Logos and Gnosis in particular. These have very specific meanings in a Xian/Gnostic contect. Will echo the Malazan recommendation. Have read twice and likely more in the future.The Ten Big Books have a lot more characters and the setting a lot more fleshed out. Erickson also have a wicked sense of humor that helps break the tension and hus female characters are some of the best in the series. I would also say that while many arcs are very grim and dark, the overall series is not. Quite far from it.

Great Review. I would love to try this once I finish up some series like The First Law and Realm of the Elderlings. I noticed you have a Clive Barker book in the background. Is it Imajica or Weaveworld?

Very interesting review. I found this book weirdly boring and confusing at the same time. Mainly picked it up for the writing but that didn't really stand out to me as much as I hoped. But I am curious about the appreciation for this series. Re your point about the world being brutal for everyone, agreed. But I also felt there was a structural misogyny on top of that heightened by the fact that one of the few (only?) female POVs we get is from a sex worker who is intelligent and resourceful, but ultimately limited because of her gender and status. Given that there were no POVs from female characters in other professions to counter that, I felt it was at least a limited view from the female perspective. I should note that I do struggle a lot with reading about graphic violence (including sexual violence against any gender), slang and relentless nihilism. I've been getting better at it by reading different books and trying to understand what the author is trying to communicate. Dark fantasy series I have tried/read: 1) ASOIAF and F&B: Really liked both. Especially F&B was a surprise - made-up history as a page-turner? There were misses - I do not like GRRM's obsession with describing people's private parts! and Feast really dragged for me (imo what saved it from being a bad book was Cersei's POV) but Dance was more or less GRRM back in form. I really liked the character work and here in relation to the above paragraph I'll say that while the world is misogynistic, by giving us a wide range of female POVs with different personalities and statuses (Arya, Cersei, Dany, Sansa, Catelyn, later Brienne and Asha), GRRM shows what it is like from a female perspective very effectively imo. I know it is pretty dumb to say in Sept 2022 that ASOIAF is so good but I'm genuinely happy I understand why this series has sold millions of copies and engaged so many readers. 2) First Law and Best Served Cold: I thought First Law was fine. There were a few issues (Ferro, portrayal of the Gurkish) but the biggest miss for me was the theming. It started out as a great subversion to the Fellowship (really liked the twist on Bayaz) but didn't really go anywhere. Also in terms of reader expectations, the character work which everyone praises was missed potential for me with depth squandered for quips (a valid authorial choice, just not one I preferred). DNF'd Best Served Cold halfway through, couldn't take the graphic violence. Monza again started out very interesting, then the development waned for me. Not the author for me (feel free to cancel me😄). 3) Gardens of the Moon and The God Is Not Willing - DNF'd the former, genuinely had no idea what was going on. Regretted finishing the latter. No idea what the author was trying to accomplish. Not for me. Sorry for rambling pointlessly. What do you think - is Prince of Nothing worth a retry?

1. Tolkien 2. Baker 3. Martin 4. Sapkowski IMO Malazan sucks

I don't know how to message you directly - Madness, get after me.

i watch a review where the person gave 2.5. Main reason she found the book way to sexist