The Delicious Baguette of Failure: Why French Luxury Cars will NEVER Succeed 

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The 407 Coupé isn’t a bad looking car, but it’s predecessor the 406 Coupé was almost universally regarded as a thing of beauty (I think it was Clarkson who described it as “achingly beautiful”).

Today in Manchester, I saw a Range Rover, a Bentley Bentaga and a Mercedes GLS. All were shiny black, with black windows and shiny chrome wheels. I guess that is modern luxury. What I don't understand is the new craze for matte paint.

James, fyi: inventor of the V8 engine was a French man, Léon Levavasseur.

I think it's important to understand the French psychology too. Often, they are not wanting or even aspiring to be seen driving a Jaguar Land Rover, BMW, Audi or Merc like UK motoring journalists seem a bit biased to believe for some reason? They seek understatement not Power, different not generic, and of course tradition to buy French. In France the top 4 car manufactures by sales there is Peugeot, Renault, Dacia & Citroen. In UK most popular is VW, Audio, BMW & Ford.

As a French citizen and car lover, I tried to some good French cars in the last 46 years. I had a Renault 5 Alpine Turbo, a couple of Renault 30 (TS & TX), a couple of exceptional Renault Grand Espace 3,5 V6 (with a 245 hp Nissan engine) and more recently a Clio RS (1,6 l turbo 200 hp). The exceptional one was the Grand Espace (although it did drink a lot). The problem is simple and is very French: tax!!! And it is even worse today. To replace my 225,000 km (almost 150,000 miles) Land Rover Discovery 4, a new Discovery 5 would had a malus of Euro 60,000 to a price new of 100,000. That is a total of Euro 160,000! All attempts by French manufacturers (big ones or small ones) failed. When your home market is prohibited, then you simply can’t exist. We could make very good luxury cars with big engines but they would not sell in France. And what is the image abroad if you can’t sell a luxury brand at home? We had Hispano Suiza, Bugatti, Delage, Delahaye but that is a long time ago. Our governments have been hating the people who can afford luxury cars for 80 years or so. Result is a disaster. So I drive (second hand) 6 and 8 cylinder engines of my Mercedes Benz, BMW, Jaguar, Maserati and Land Rover and only regret my Renault Grand Espace with their Japanese V6. What a pity isn’t it?

My dad owned a Renault 25 executive. It was a beautiful car in its day. Had a voice warning for doors open and bulb failures. Which meant it was like a spaceship to an 7 year old me

I own this car now. Must admit, I absolutely love the look of it with the slightly lower suspension and wider stance (also has wheel spacers on), but you're right about the suspension. I spend most of my time avoiding potholes instead of enjoying driving it. I cracked a wheel bringing it home

I have 2l diesel Citroën C5. I bought it 3 years ago as my last chance to get a hydraulic Citroën. It has been reliable, driving it is so relaxing, and passengers comment how comfortable it is. I initially bought it to keep for about 3 years, but now I don't know what I would replace it with.

I'm currently restoring a 604 and trying to persuade my wife to let me buy a 504 coupe.

I wish that before they go completely electric, Citroen and Peugeot would make one last swan song for the big, luxury(ish) 2 door coupes with big engines (even if they have to borrow them from another manufacturer), cause let me tell you, back in the day both brands used to make absolutely stunning looking 2 door coupes.

The DS21/23 was technically, and certainly in terms of relative cost, a luxury car and quite successful in the UK.

I used to have a Renault Laguna II 3.0 V6 Initiale, which was the top spec Luxury model with full leather and all the toys. Sat Nav, Auditorium sound system etc. It was actually a really reliable car. Never let me down, was super comfortable. And amazingly on long runs it did 40mpg without even trying. Downside was the bushes. Fun fact.... The Laguna II was the worlds first ever car to get EuroNCAP 5 Star. But it nearly didnt. To achieve it they had to fit far bigger and wider wheels than the chassis was designed for. The change in dynamics was such they it would eat suspension bushes every 4 to 5yrs.

In answer to your question about a French V8, the Simca Vedette had a small capacity side valve V8, but wasn’t around for too many years.

I have a love of French oddness. A modern Alpine is on my list for cars I want in my life, as is the wonderful C6

I’ve got a huge soft spot for French coupes, and in particular Peugeot coupes; the 406 Coupe, 407 Coupe (even with it’s big mouth) and RCZ are all cars I like very much (plus the old 90’s Megane Coupe).

They needed to do the equivalent of Lexus or Infinity and create a separate brand. Just because French brands used to be luxurious a hundred years ago, doesn't mean that we now don't associate them with utilitarian, disposable models.

As a French petrol head, I can say we had lots of great cars, Hispano-Suiza, Delage, Delahaye, Avions-Voisin, Talbot Lago, Bugatti, Salmson, Chenard Walcker (had a OHV V8 of their own presented in 1933-34 late replaced by a Ford lump), Hotchkiss, Facel Vega... even obscurer ones like Gobron-Brillié, Cottin Desgouttes, Tracta, Sizaire Frères, Ballot, Léon Laisne... We also had a couple of V12 with Voisin (C2, C16, C18, C20), Hispano-Suiza (J12) and Delahaye (Type 145). DeDion Bouton made V8's... the very first one at that from 1909 to 1919ish. We had Ford/Mercury derived flathead V8's in the Matford (Mathis+Ford), after the war in the Ford Vedette(2.1l)/Vendome(3.9l) - Comete/Montecarlo and then without Ford partnership in many Simca, still a flathead but modernized (83HP compared to the previous 66HP for 2.3l). The Simca Vedette had a huge success in Argentine where they made factory "hot rod" versions by copying the Ardun OHV conversion heads designed by Zora Arkus-Duntov (the father of the Corvette), in 1966, the old 2.3 (designed in the early 30's) made 140hp in the Simca Rallye EmiSul 6M (6 speed, a 3 speed box with high/low range). We could have made it but the government made every decision possible to never let that happen, by giving control over the industry to communist unions after the war who were too numerous and organized to be trifled with and by making buying any foreign cars a luxury (as most countries did). Since then our brands were doomed to appeal to the the people who had no other choice but to buy them. There was no real competition nor incentive to do better, some tried (Facel-Vega) and failed because the government forced them to develop a French engine that would cost millions, was launched hastily, wasn't ready but money was running out and didn't appeal to the customers outside of the country...

16:13 Bugatti is technically ‘French’ and is sold in North America, but of course, that is a super, super low-volume brand. There was talk that Nissan would introduce Alpine on Renault’s behalf however. French imports are relatively common in Canada (on a super low-volume scale) - quite a few Clio V6’s, Lagunas, 206’s, and even Avantimes (!) here.

The previous generation, 406 coupe, was a beautiful car. The 407 coupe didn’t quite match it but the 407 estate, with its panoramic roof, was a wonderful car to be chauffeured around.

There are several luxury French cars that I always wanted as a kid. One of them is Citroen XM. It's a fantastic-looking thing. The other is the equally bewitching C6 (preferably with the V6 petrol or 3-litre V6 diesel), as well as Renault Safrane Biturbo Baccara. None of them were sold in Indonesia, though.

American here The French have been gone from the US market since the early 90s so no French cars have been sold for about 30 years What did them in was their reputation for poor quality and reliability. It wasn’t just that they couldn’t compete upmarket against V8 luxury….they couldn’t compete downmarket either.

The Citroën C6 is one luxurious car.

Wait a minute. There is one French-built brand you can buy in the USA - Bugatti.

French luxury cars gain a moral victory for sticking to their oddball designs and no-compromise ride, even if they'll never win a sales war.

I was thinking yesterday James that part of your channel a big part of it is actually you ! And your journey with your own cars and your past cars like this one .

Lexus didn’t take off until Partridge started pushing them with his leather driving gloves. Perhaps Peugeot need their own Partridge?

I had a 605 in 1991 and a C6 in 2010. French luxury cars are lovely companions when life isn't going as planned and let you put things in perspective. If they made a more cossetting, idiosyncratic, and luxurious RWD version of the C6, I would definitely consider one.

Before the Vel Satis and Avantime, Renault made the Safrane, which had a more conventional shape/styling for an executive car. It was offered with a 3.0 V6, had a lot of soundproofing, and as is often the case with French cars, it packed a lot of tech for its time. My favorite feature was that the car would speak out any issues, e.g. it would say “attention, rear left door open” or “attention, seatbelt not fastened”, and that was available in a few languages depending on your preference. There was also a rare biturbo v6 variant (only available with a manual though).

Jay, you're correct. The last time we had a French car here was in 1992, and it wasn't even badged as the Renault it was. (Eagle Premier) I love how a Fiat 500 drove past right as you were talking about inexpensive Italian cars.

I owned a 407 2.7auto diesel coupe from 2008 to 2018, it was a terrific car. The only reason I traded it in was concern about its age and the fact that the diesel car I was once encouraged to buy was in danger of becoming a car I would not be able to drive anywhere. I switched to a VW cc for 3 years but found it lacked certain fixtures & fittings I had come to think of as standard like electric seats & mirrors. Now I'm back in a Pug again, a petrol 508 hybrid, this is also a lovely car but the sacrifice of 150 miles worth of petrol tank for a battery which costs£4.00ish to charge and gives me about10 miles in return is the economics of lunacy. Only a government could ever think that is eco friendly.

There was Facel Vega, the HK500, but that cheated a bit, it used a Chrysler V8

Dad had a Peugeot 504 in the early 1980s. It was incredibly comfortable, and rugged... until it started rusting... thanks again for a lovely vid... great shirt as always

Owned 3 of these, 2 manual 2.2 petrols and a 2.7 diesel auto. I loved them. Lots of toys, distinctive and cosseting. Alas, the electrics were a real concern.

Alpine has been planning on launching in the US, although they have been saying that for a few years.

Thanks James, great video as always, reminded me of happy Peugeot days of my motoring past which started with a 504,:then a 405,:604 and 406 V6 Coupe which I loved, another car (one of several) that I now regret selling.

I am the proud owner of a Peugeot 407 2.2 HDi BiTurbo sedan. And that monster simply slaps. Even in its standard form it gave German traffic a headache when I stepped on it. Subtly modified now, when I go through them. The shock on their faces, priceless. I wanted to get a new Peugeot 508 II sedan, but when I found out that that engine is not available and that the biggest one is 1.6 HDi, I was disappointed. Even when I was on a test drive, the lack of torque was felt. Although he had the speed. I have no words for the suspension. It reacts as it should react in any situation regardless of the conditions. And now that he wears good sports tires and better than the factory but still Bilstein shock absorbers. How to fly a plane. When it comes to durability and longevity. The only flaw or downside I have to say is the electricity. I simply have no words for the rest. As a young person I have changed quite a few vehicles. I will drive this 407 until the end. Otherwise, a wonderful and brilliant video. Greetings from Skopje, North Macedonia and I wish you a pleasant day and much success

I seem to be an odd ball here. My first car was a Citroen CX Turbo, I did choose it oven an Audi Coupe Quattro. I owned a couple of french cars, including Citroen XMs, BX, Renault 19, Scenic and the 407. Regarding the 407, I had a 2007 2.2 HDI sedan, that's the Bi-Turbo Diesel with around 180hp. I did with it multiple trips to Europe, it's comfortable , does very good mileage on the motorway and overall I count it to one of the best cars I owned; and I owned over 40 😁 If it comes to comfort, French cars beat the Germans. I had two Citroen CX, and even the XM is unique, quirky and surprisingly manages the right amount of sportyness (V6 24v Sport). A Citroen DS is on my wish list - always liked them; another cool car I had but didn't owned was the 405 Mi16.

Pre-WW2, many French car manufacturers were actually at the peak of luxury. What happen was 1) lots of factories could not produce the same cars during the war; and 2) after the war the government requested that all manufacturers build cars for the common people to help reconstruct the country. That's why Citroën came with the 2CV; that's why Talbot and Simca started building cheap turds; and that's why the Panhard, Delage, Delahaye, Facel and co disappeared (terrible budget situation at the end of the war, and unable to create new cars from scratch). The first ever V8 was the French "Antoinette". The last French-made V8 was probably the Ford-derived 2.4L Aquilon engine in the 1954-61 Simca Vedette. The Facel Vega did have a V8 in 1954, but a Chrysler unit. The last French V8 (ignoring concept cars) would be in F1 cars, and only there unfortunately.

😊🙏 Have neighbours that been driving Peugeot cars from fathers to children for many decades & once asked them why , they replied these French designed & engineered cars are more safety conscious with stronger crash-cage monocoque & installed with more fuel efficient smaller engines that can do the many jobs of bigger engined cars & they're stylish! Must drive them lovingly & maintain them earlier than stated with PSA Peugeot-Citroën AutoFrance Service Centres! There are still many French Peugeot & Citroën cars to be seen in the Middle East , South East Asia & in the African continent! 😊🙏

Your essay style videos are very good and refreshing. Keep it up!

What an intriguing question. Keep up the good work

True. The French left the US market in the late 80s I belive.

In 1980, I was driving a Rover 3500V8 and honestly, there was no french car like that. I loved this car.

The first plane ever to fly in public, the 14 bis, was powered by a french v8. Also, Simca did produce a flathead.

The Renault 30 was a breath of fresh air, and the 25 in first phase, V6i mode, honourable exceptions?

There actually is one French brand in the USA: Bugatti 😉. Now, they are owned by a Croatian company after having been owned by a German company, but they are at least headquartered in France still. Otherwise, there are no French car presence in the US, although there is in Mexico.

Great review, James. Interesting to see a view on the bigger engine to my 2.2, you reviewed! Cheers

I had a 2004 Peugeot 605 2.2 auto and I loved it. The C6 was also another quirky motor

I've just acquired a petrol V6 engine which I'm transplanting into my Fiat Scudo Van, just trying something different.

Fordson Major tractor, last made in 1951.

Excellent, Jay. Very interesting and I really enjoyed it. 👏👏👏👏

Very interesting analysis, thought provoking. Thanks.

I found this channel recently and have become obsessed. Excellent viewing!

The French copy no one and no one copies the French

Great video. Very informative! Going into it, I didn't expect to learn so much about post WWII history of the automobile (taxes, French attempts at luxury, contrast to Americans...). Thanks!

In the 1930s Citroën made a Traction 22cv with a V8 It is a mythical car that was finally not marketed mostly because of the war. Only a very few numbers still exist . One is used in Holland by a collector. It was supposed to be Citroën flagship after the 15 cv 6, straight 6 cylinders . But, Citroën could not afford to carry on. There is a short Dutch video on RU-vid..

My 405 had so many electrical problems (including a breakdown on the way to catch a ferry) that my head has ruled my heart ever since and I’ve avoided French cars for 40 years.

French cars haven't been in the US since 1991. It's been quite a long time.

Idrive a 2003peugoet 406v6 210bhp thanks from NewZealand its so smooth a joy to drive and looks good 😊😊😊😊😊

Very particular for someone who doesn’t put much work into his own build quality

The 2.7 hdi diesel v6 that is in the 407 was also used by jaguar+land rover. I read once that the simca had a V8 in the Simca Versailles V8. could not found out if it was a simca development.

I had a Renault 14 TX years ago. Brilliant car, very very comfortable, quite rapid and went round corners very well - on all four wheels and two door-handles! I had a Peugeot 406 estate V6 automatic. Fast and excellent. Citroen's C6 was nice too. So, not all bad

Very interesting video James, and I largely agree with you on why french luxury cars don't seem to succeed, but I gotta say, the exhaust note on this example is the best sounding diesel I have ever heard (from one now envious Skoda Superb TDi owner). Cheers!

one of the most beautiful cars ever created

So it's got a Ford/ jaguar engine

Thank you. I enjoy the different stuff and French is refreshing. Totally agree, judge steering once you have driven a Lotus.

Just lovely ❤.. excellent content as always 👌

As a American I do find it a bit confusing why you talk about how Americans viewed cars and French cars. When it comes to French cars reputation we simply don't matter. It has been decades since they were last here. I don't see why our perspective and opinions matter compared to what other markets think. I feel like what Europeans think was much more valuable and affected them much more significantly as they were more dominate there. We don't care what French cars are doing and the French automakers shouldn't care either. I highly doubt that will change anytime soon. The American division of Stellantis is struggling a lot with hollowed out brands and offerings. Adding French brands here is just dumb. Also Toyota is not one of our most popular brands. It literally is THE best selling car brand in the United States. Many of us abandon American brands. They have been in decline for years. No mainstream European brand has ever taken off here. Even VW is definitely a third rate hack if I'm being brutally honest. They don't offer anything at all you can't find from American, Japanese, or Korean brands. They were here before most other import brands and fell far behind. Even the Koreans are doing better. The French left and Fiat was never even a player. In term of mainstream more affordable cars. More premium European brands are another matter entirely. They have had a much greater impact on what Americans desire in my opinion. But they are definitely earned a lease and throw away appliances status.

That is a very elegant car, I live in France and have done for the last 22 years and don't recall ever seeing one, however my first French car I owned when I was 20 years old in Australia, was a Renault R10 which I picked up from the factory in Melbourne, now that was quirky but I loved it, now it has been here a succession of cars like Fords and a Jaguar X Type.

Current owner of a manual 136 hp 2.0 hdi coupe, nice to drive suspension is better lowered on one without the electronic shocks , doesn’t affect it to badly

I love your reviews of cars like this James. You’re filling the void left by old school Top Gear 😎

I had a 406 estate, was a cracking car, loved the 90s styling, but modernly (and very well) equipped car, wasnt even top spec, but had dual zone climate, sat nav (terrible sat nav, but it was a 53) auto lights, wipers etc. loved it. only got rid because a lovely van driver rear ended it

Cheers! When a teenager my friend's dad had a Renault 25 V6, that to me at the time an incredibly luxurious car!

DS Automobiles. Im a Canadian that rented one last summer. Boy, i loved it. Nice luxurious PHEV with wonderful handling and performance.

I loved my C6. When properly maintained it was superb.

Had the Renault avantime paugeot RCZ and absolutely loved them both. They were different to all the other cars and fun and great to own. Living in London now and don’t have a car because there is no need because it takes forever to get anywhere in a car. Loving the videos 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Over a decade ago, when my parents needed a comfortable car with loads of luggage space, I found them a used 406 estate. Drove it a couple of times myself: super comfortable and better steering feedback than most current cars. Reliable too! That said, I drive a Benz now, lol.

I've had my petrol V6 407 coupe for a couple of years and I love it, it's just crazy how much car you can get for a few grand. Plus the coupe looks quite different from anything else on the road which is nice, I haven't seen another one on the road during the time I've had mine so it must be pretty rare, especially with a manual gearbox like mine I've driven a couple early-mid 2010s BMW estates and while the 8-speed autos and xDrive and other systems are nice to have I still think the ride quality is much nicer on the 407 and the cabin is much quieter thanks to the double windows

`Baguette of failure` love that 😂...I have worked in the motor industry for 35 plus years, French cars just do not stir the soul, have not done since the early nineties, but i do like the new alpines... Alfa gtv 3.0 on my drive, which i love, will stick with my italian baby thx.

Lovely old ramble James. Many thanks.

I agree, convert it back to standard suspension. Also, spray some black paint on those calipers while you're at it. Just stick it in drive and burn up some péage. On the subject of e46 steering: Z4m front excentric control arm bushings and a new steering coupler make all the difference in these cars.

I loved the cameo appearance of your BX. This was my first car, bought for £500 in 1993, a BX GT in the very same colour as yours... now very rare, pity I sold it... fond memories! ... do you have a video of your BX? I'd love to see it!

I had a 1986 Peugeot 505 back in 1999. I'm in the Midwest, USA. And when Peugeot left in 1991, parts became an issue. Some people never even heard of it. It's funny many years ago if you said Korea was going to have a luxury car brand, people would laugh, considering how Hyundai started here in the states. I ended up selling the Pug for a Saab 900. Great video as always!

I am American but was stationed in Japan for a few years. I remember seeing these here and there in Japan and loved them!

Item one: a BIG factor in the UK market is badge snobbery. Despite Citroen and Renault building some interesting models (Vel Satis for example), too many people turn their noses up at a non-German badge, unless they can afford a Jaguar, Aston or Bentley/Rolls-Royce. Though Lexus managed to cut through that in part by adopting the approach "Let's build an even better Mercedes S-Class for 70% of the money, and make it last into the bargain". Once word spread, Lexus got their foot in the door and never really looked back. Item two: your point about small engines is indeed a major factor. Though dig deep into history, and the French also gave us Facel Vega. Who put a honking big American V8 into a saloon car around 1960, which made it more powerful than a Ferrari - 355 hp in the Facel II made it terrifyingly quick in its time. Though that brand died for different reasons, despite having celebrity owners (Joan Collins had one, for example). Though as you point out, trying to find a home built French V8 is like looking for unicorn droppings. By contrast, Toyota once put a home made V12, no less, in the Century (the second generation G 50 version, along with the contemporary limousine for the Emperor of Japan). Yamaha also built V12 F1 engines, and put a V12 in the experimental OX99 supercar. Lexus stuck a V10 in the LFA that has an utterly orgasmic engine note, but I'm having trouble finding a Japanese V8 - bit of an odd gap in the engine lineup there? Item three: yes, technology has been a double edged sword for the French. The Citroen-Maserati SM you mentioned was a technological tour de force, but even rich playboys objected to paying Maserati prices to service a car with a Citroen badge. If Citroen had been able to choose a larger, less highly strung (and cheaper to mend) engine, the SM might have weathered the oil crisis storm. There's also the underhand way in which the USA kept it out via legislation banning those swivelling headlights, thus depriving Citroen of possibly their most lucrative market for something that had a "car of the future" aspect to it. Now, however, rich American car collectors looking for something out of the ordinary, are scouring the globe for DS19s, especially the rare and gorgeous "Décapotable" convertible models, which command sky high prices.

Hi James, great review and it got me thinking that I’d love to hear your thoughts on the Citroen C6.

Most enjoyable car I ever owned was a 406 Coupe with the 3.0 V6 petrol engine.

I always wanted a 407 Coupe. Just never found myself in the position to buy one. Gorgeous looking car.

The 407 is a legend.. I love everything about it.

I would love to see more quirky french cars!

The Lancia Thema 8.32 is a car that deserved more recognition in it's day. I like French cars but my favourite was the my first and slowest car I have ever owned. It was a Citroen 2cv. It was such a fun little thing that always left you smiling. I'm grinning now just thinking about it 😊

The second car I owned was a Peugeot 405. Fond memories of that car.

Jay we need a review on a Renault Laguna 2008-2012 model. Great forgotten french coupe!

First time in a 604 as a kid (dad was a peugeot dealer)...wow. the ride. The beautiful suppleness and handling balance. Later I had a Renault 25GTX. Which was so quiet and relaxed to drive. Traded a citroen cx25...nice. the hydropneumatics were a pain tho. They did great large cars. Just noone wanted them.

Talking Peugeot, the first batch 405 SRi (before the body upgrades on later cars) was a total pleasure to drive. To this day I haven't driven anything with a such precise steering and that mostly tells how lacking my experience is, but still. It was instant, no play whatsoever. It was a really nice example with some shortcomings and had been parked for a while. I guess the tires were some old budget ones and the steering was still like a dream. My friends bought it solely to race it at some grassroots stuff and the lovely dark interior was ripped out immediately. I am still kicking myself, because that car would have been a real pleasure being a dedicated driver. Instead, the one who paid for the car then bought a god awful 1.6 carbureted bottom end version with gray interior and added a... eye-challenging DIY body kit with some 17" alloys and a of course a... heavy sound system. AFAIK, it didn't even have power steering. Being a dedicated driver in that one was... challenging.

I had the 3.0 V6, 6 speed manual petrol 2007 model ,but the head gasket went and had high mileage and various other issues sadly scrapped it last year

Still looks a great looking car, I love coupe cars, also surprised your on a test and it’s not raining ☔️

Well done, James. You've made excellent points, the offended notwithstanding. I think that French cars are wonderfully quirky and individual and innovative when they want to be, but if French brands want international success, and yes the US is a very lucrative market, they need to build models that have that international appeal.

I bought a 508 a year ago .very low mileage . been great and I plan to keep it a while longer...I also like the look of this car...