The EMPATHY PARADOX of narcissism 

That’s very succinct and true. Well said.

Yes, well said.

kya narc love marriage karta​@@yukio_saito

Leave them and never come back. That's the only thing to make it out of...

@@96BxelA thanks

They are very good at being interested in all your past .. mostly the bad trauma times you have actually experienced, survived and become stronger throughout your life because of it all ..they will tell you only certain traumas mostly the way they have been treated.. lied to ,cheated on etc. even though they have been cheated on they will openly admit they did it back because it was done to them .. ME say I’ve never reduced myself to that betrayal because I have been on the receiving end of it and know the emotional mental effects it impacts on others.. also tell them people have always loved me for myself at the start and try and change and demoralising me once they start to unravel who they really are when I’m standing up to their bullying behaviour.. exactly the same morels apparently they also believe they have the same as your self ,, until you start to see patterns of behaviour,, knowing in your gut they are not being honest as some stories from the start ,, start to change or they are throwing accusations against you and insults towards you for no reason making you feel beneath them when they are speaking down to you in a different manner that you have had many times before.. the disturbing thing is with my experiences is usually after drinking and they switch instantly and they don’t even hear or see you no matter what emotionally state they have degraded you into feeling,, but you end it and booom they really do show you the real person you have spent all the time loving and caring about and being your complete honest self ,, even when you’re standing up to them as your normal self because you don’t stand for this behaviour,.. oh dear they are good at letting everyone you or they know that they have been subjected to your behaviour just because they decided to record your part when you finally loose your sh.. ,, to them and rightly so pity they don’t record their behaviour that antagonised you into loosing it and you have had just about enough for the last time.. luckily for me I had papers upon paper work of time dates and logged incidents which his behaviour occurred.. logging everything as well as vile harassment in messages.. one day karma will catch up with them ,, maybe not everyone but those who will never want to learn and reflect on ( know oneself) and take accountability for their behaviour and behaviour that’s impacted others,, I can honestly say this last one will never do that and would rather throw good honest people under the buss and make them to be the bad people rather than having the shame of getting help for themselves.. it’s a power to them that would be taken away from them and they live their lives for power only over people.. especially if everything they have done in life in the army,, jobs it’s always been about having the highest titles in their jobs so people have to look up to them .. my motto is never look down upon anyone who is falling because one day you may have to be looking up at them for help yourself ❤

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Thanks for pointing this out and the book recommendation. I have recently discovered that part of my unhappiness is that I am behaving in ways that aren’t authentic to me around narcs, that make me feel like I am the jerk. That is one of my, I guess you’d call it, fundamental principles. I want to behave how I feel is right in any given situation regardless of external pressure or even minor risk to myself. I don’t want to be cynical but I find myself questioning motives whenever they are kind or thoughtful. Shouting is also not my norm. I taught high school and only raised my voice twice in 10 years, mostly because I saw it just didn’t work for me and my style, and I didn’t need it. Since I have returned to my defaults more and more, pressing my own boundaries forward and not giving in, treating the narc like I would a toddler who needs to learn, I have been happier and the narc is actually lashing out less because there is no rising to the bait and when I do, I pull back which means no supply there either. I am conditioning the narc like the puppet slave he is to his impulses and lack of self awareness, and he has no idea. It is so lovely.

"I was so good at being an empathic person for everyone else except for him" You probably were empathic towards him, he was just a bottomless pit. Having empathy doesn't mean you're instantly all-knowing about how all situations makes everyone else feels, that comes from experience and when you get zero empathy in return you'll burn out.

I experience that right now, being accused of being mean and uncaring and should apologize when I’m actually upholding boundaries that I put into place.

​@@TheBaumcm is the narc your partner or spouse? If so, are you still with the narc?

That was the first book I read too. I was shocked at how this guy couldn't know what was going on in my private relationship. that was before I knew it was a pattern and there were lots of people just like my ex - narcissists.

So true.

you said it all.

They'll complain about people who are doing the same thing they are doing while their doing it.

They're screening who will and won't let them get away with c**p.

Absolutely spot on and so helpful to know this. My narc mother has absolutely no idea what she actually likes or how she feels about a subject. They are not in touch with themselves at all. Their entire existence is manipulating others.

Thank you, it makes it so confusing especially when they helped heal you. It does make you doubt your own feelings.

That's one reason it takes so long to start being better to ourselves. It takes time to see their true motivation and tactics of manipulation, even with education. They gaslight and future fake.

Most of them don't.

Yes it is confusing, and that's half the objective is to keep you wondering and questioning your own reality. I say it is NOT empathy because if it can be turned off and turned on, then that means it is a mimicry, a manipulation, not real empathy.

It is performative empathy. It is not genuine. It is always to get something even being able to get empathy from others when they tell the story of how they helped/cared for someone.

Thank you for adding this. I find myself to be very intuitive but I worry I’m the narc even though logically I know that’s not true. Sometimes I get triggered by these videos bc of my history of being gaslit by others (as well as myself).

There were many red flags I overlooked; and didn't recognize then. But on hindsight, clearly was abusive behaviour. What made me leave with just the clothes on my back and the shoes on my feet was the physical abuse. Hit me once, maybe forgivable. Hit me for the second time? I snapped and left for good. The "good times", interspersed with the " lies"? It's just too hard to believe what is real anymore.

Yes I liked the way you said that. The niceness is like a venom that paralyzes us. While it's happening we don't know we are being tricked back into the fantasy relationship. There is never consistency.

That's how trauma bond is formed

Could this be sympathy instead of empathy? I’ve received pity from the narc(allleged) that seems like they care. But they don’t want to go beneath the surface level. The convo ends with one sentence of sympathy and then they center themselves.

I find it interesting that those who commonly lack empathy LOVE to deflect by claiming it was the other person who lacks empathy. It’s a way to not take personal responsibility and claim victim hood.

Makes complete sense! Very well put. I have experienced this many times.

@@rebeccachappell7622 Thank you and I'm sorry you've experienced that shitty behaviour.

Yes, like a used car salesman pitching his bull to a customer 👍

Yes, I had an expression for this with my ex: he tried to 'logic' me out of my feelings.

Absolutely correct

My ex is a therapist. Very reputable and holds himself in high regard, so, he knows everything about everyone and totally has to be the best person in the room. The most generous, the most entertaining, the most intelligent the most flexible. But that comes at a cost to me. If someone tries to out do him, he gets angry. He didn't allow me to be any of these things, because of his constant need for approval, admiration and appreciation, then despises me because I am not any of these things. When I told him that he's treating me poorly, his masters degree should make him aware he's wrong. (He threw that in my face all the time for no reason, well, I do have a master's degree...) Tried to justify his wronging me was an attempt to but hurt my feelings. Even though there was a conscience, on purpose action to hurt me. Then blames me for making him do it and before you know it I was asked to apologize to him. Anyone else? I feel crazy.

I noticed that lots of highly narcissitic people like to self label as an "empath", which is why that label is a red flag for me these days.

Totally agree~ I know one, and last year, she was formally diagnosed as Histrionic, which is "light narcissism". I almost spilled my drink when she recently claimed she's an Empath😅😂😅😂 Formally diagnosed with narcissism, yet claims the opposite...both can't coexist in one person😅😂😅Empaths can't be narcissists😂just goes to show how delusional they are.

I too have an ex friend who was exactly like this - living from crisis to crisis and completely suffocating during those times because everything was happening to her and no one else. But as soon as the storm passed she would suspend contact. Total emotional vampire. She promotes herself as the biggest empath on the planet but that’s just her path to supply. Honestly, with her insatiable need for supply I’m surprised she has time at all for her paid job.

Wait, did she give you the wrong advice intentionally or accidentally?

Why do you think she could work a room so well but not give you solid advice on handling a social situation? As they say in TikTok comments.... "Story time!?!" 😁

@@lulabell79_31 The one thing that was odd for all of us when she died was how lives she touched in positive ways. She filled up a church and under-croft. One sister said, "Who was this woman?" From what we heard from her she didn't have a friend in the world. Her behavior in public was charming compared to her anger and rage to us and our father. That seems to be a symptom; they have emotional control in public but not with "loved ones". My guess is she had a skill set that worked for her but she didn't understand what was going on personally. It was a mask that worked. When she was family she could be dis-regulated. It's a paradox.

They often say "everyone" hates you, thinks your nuts," etc. It is one of their tools to isolate you and crush you. Do not believe it!

Noooo smart!!! 😏😏

All of the positive behaviors you thought were his were actually your positive behavior traits. All of the negative traits he was speaking he assigned to you are his behavior traits. He stole your truth and wears it as a cloth and he gave you his rags.

@@morpheusmirror2857 I understand what you are saying, but I still have doubts about myself. I struggle everyday. I think and rethink everything. I have read so much about Narcissism, that I don't even understand how someone can be so evil. Life has definitely changed and cannot go back to the naive, happy go lucky, always going the distance for people kind of life. After he left, I started to see things very differently. Realised my mother was also being horrible to me, I used to think it was out of love. I noticed how my friends mother's treated them differently and wondered why it isn't like this at home. Giving me leftovers to eat, when I told her, I am trying to loose weight, she would secretly add more oil etc in the food, etc.. suddenly behaving badly in front of people, speaking loudly, as if I did something to her and poeple would look differently at me. Once she told everyone I beat her. This was when she was throwing her tantrum when I was trying to explain to her not to do what she is doing, it hurts me, and she started shaking violently.. (I don't know why) so I screamed for her to stop. Now I lost all my wellwishers because they think i'm disrespectful and rude to her. My family (brothers and father) support her. They say its normal... that she is mum. Its very messy. I feel sick to my stomach. I can't move out cos all my finances are drained due to that narc bf. I don't know what else to say. I am working on myself thats all.

OMG .... I was told those very same things and I have been doing heavy therapy with 2 counselors for the mental trauma and confusion resulting from the relationship. I thought I healed from my almost 20 year marriage to a narcissistic individual and got into what I thought was a healthy relationship and just found a different type of narcissist. Highly intelligent and I thought high EQ. I got blamed for everything and told how horrible I was. My self-esteem totally tanked. I'm still confused by what I experienced. I have always been a people pleaser. These videos really help. ❤

They are not aware of themself but they are experts about other people.

@@t_nelsif they are not aware about themselves then how come they behave differently in public and in private.

@@Healthimprove Their view if self is distorted.

I think Dr Ramani does have a good idea how much she's helping. Hope you can put all the misery and suffering behind you and that you in turn can help a great many souls get back on track with their lives. I have no doubt, though, that being a therapist is quite a hard job, so don't forget to keep an eye on yourself as well!

@@FrancisFjordCupola thank you very much! Indeed! Being a therapist is not an easy job. I'm kinda scared of it and I still have doubts about if this is really for me, but I'll make a way to find out! 😅 I'm scared of getting too attached to my client's feelings and not being able to separate my emotions from them, but anyways, I know they teach you a lot of things there and I'll find out 😅

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This is absolutely correct !! Reminds me of that disgusting person I was married to and happily divorced. He wanted to eat out every night. He never wanted to cook - despite me working full time too ! I don’t even think he really knew how to. During the divorce and financial settlement he blamed me for spending all ‘his’ money, even though I had no access to his accounts or cards. Total pig and utter psychopath. 🙄

@@NO-ib1ip I'm a believer in having a sit down meal at home. Restaurants are too expensive for every day. It becomes an addiction. You can't squander money, then complain about not having any for the things you need. Then it's always someone else's fault.

@@qua7771Yes. It was an addiction for him. A way to avoid responsibility and making any kind of contribution to a real home environment or being an actual grown up.

@@NO-ib1ip Who paid the bills? That's something narc's like to ignore completely. They think it's normal to be months behind for things they use, and agreed to.

My narc exclaims “get out of my head!” It’s kind of easy once you realize the patterns.

All narcs are socially perceptive, otherwise they wouldn’t know exactly which buttons to push to manipulate. Covert just use their victim status more than their positional status.

@@TheBaumcm Great clarification, thank you!

This right here! I knew something was wrong but I gaslighted myself into thinking that it is just my anxiety or paranoia because of my rose tinted glasses.

I remember their reaction feeling not really as warm as I expected, but as if they were standoffish inside, almost gloating... but it was very hard to put one's finger on. They had the "correct" expressions but something rang false.

A narcissist will take the time to understand you. Whoever coined the phrase "they know me better than I know myself" was probably in a relationship with a narcissist. And they used this information that they gathered throughout the course of your relationship, all the secrets you told them and the observations they made, in the discard as a weapon against you to cause the ultimate pain and betrayal.

I think of the question like this. Does it really make a difference if he’s a narcissist or not. How does he treat you? How does he interact with others? How do you feel when you’ve been with him for a while? How do you feel when he’s not around?

@@heidimartin5070I had to work this one out myself as well. We can get so fixated on the diagnosis that we forget the other half of the equation, treatment strategies. I had to realize that it didn’t matter what the diagnosis was. I had to decide if the pattern of behavior was one I couldn’t live with and being self aware, as well as aware of their patterns, made it easier to stay out of the line of fire and calm when in it, making me more authentic to myself and less susceptible. I know when we are trying to understand what happened we want to know play by play but sometimes it is healthier to see the patterns and recognize it in the future, and come up with strategies for those situations we can’t easily escape, like work or coparenting.

@@ThimbleFox350 Excellent point! I remember bragging delightedly to my friends in the early days of my relationship about how my new partner was so perceptive, and "knew me better than I knew myself"... literally those words. You can guess the rest

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Your situation sucks and it is not unique, unfortunately. You wouldn’t be stuck if you didn’t love them and if you didn’t have empathy. They use it against you, your desire to connect and have comfort and give comfort. They weaken you so that you cannot discard them first (many have an intense fear of abandonment). Maybe consider a set of force ranked priorities, meaning no two priorities can have the same rank. Put your kids, any goals you have, and anything else into that list. What is number one? And don’t forget that you might have to hurt them to have your kids hurt less. What worked for me to strengthen me, was to remember those times I felt at peace in my decisions or interactions, to focus on my own internal sense of right and wrong, to reinforce that I don’t need the narc to influence or choose for me. What was I doing? How was I communicating? I figured out that I felt weak because I wasn’t authentic to myself any more. I was taking so long to make decisions because I was centering them around the narc, not my own internal system. Self centered every now and again isn’t selfish, it’s survival. I am choosing not to let them be the voice in my head.

It's a spectrum from less to more. If You can realize it, and have introspection, then you are not a full-blown NPD. Therefore You have hope and can change!

@@TheJustinJ Something that I've found helps is that, when I spot a toxic trait, I just straight up out myself. If I just tell people about it, well then I *have* to hold myself accountable because they know

Get out! My father is also a pastor, and a neglectful narcissist. Mother is a covert narc. Put 1,000 miles between whenever I travel back, it's more and more obvious each visit. Yuk!

Indeed, I think Dr Ramani's method of just shutting down towards them is the best way against the more skilled narc.

I always figure if someone is capable of genuinely asking the question, whether they might be the problem, not in the dramatic sense of martyrdom way that many narcs employ to get sympathy from others, but in the introspective, self aware way, then they are most likely not because everyone has flaws but it is assuming that you have none that causes the problems. Defensiveness, contempt, superiority, all stem from this. I always used to tell parents at school, if you are worried you are doing a good job, chances are you are just fine.

@@TheBaumcm It's alright asking yourself that question. But I've known some scrutinise themselves for years when it was never their fault. Healing comes when you can trust yourself again. You don't have to live your life in the same circle of questions. Once you trust yourself again you can move on to someone new.

Survivors don't have to live forever the context of perpetual self scrutiny to be good people. Self-awareness is always worthwhile. But that doesn't mean endless self scrutiny over aspects of someone else's behaviour.