The END of COLOR FILM?? What is Kodak doing??? 

It a shame but I highly doubt that anyone would come to rescue colour film, unless fuji decide to reopen production. No-one else would have the production capacity.

ORWO is here to save us I guess. Because they just started to Beginn producing again.

Why is Kodak a shady company? It was a chemical company which was disintermediated by digital technology. And then-went bankrupt. They certainly made mistakes. I think to call Kodak “shady” is silly.

@@johnLee-bb2do Kodak Alaris have exclusive rights to the stills film and (I imagine) all sorts of obligations - likely conditions resulting from being let-off for $2.8b in unpaid pensions. They were sold in 2016, closed some facilities, made losses in 2020/21 and are for-sale again now.

Well, it's funny, but Kodak Alaris was reported for sale yesterday! For sure color film, at least C41 seems to be going six feet under. Slide is simply gone, there is nothing that seems to justify it as it was used in the past mainly for product photography, which makes absolutely no sense nowadays with digital. But BW film will be just fine. There are enough manufacturers to keep the prices affordable, very few depend on labs for it and chemistry is widely available and affordable too. Basically film photography is going back to its monochrome origins.

I'm Canadian and we have a compagnie called FlicFilm wich make 3 or 4 different color films if ever

The thing is that 20 years ago, film simulations for digital cameras were not as good as they are today. The main problem in C41 world isn't necessarily the price, but the fact that there is only 1 big producer in the world that can control not only the production and price. BW is different because you have many large and small producers, so, the price remain reasonable. But you're are absolutely right, C41 is going under.

@@WTFphotography It is not the "kids;' Portra look" we need film for. It is a thing done for them by digital post production in labs, when they see a young guy taking rolls of heavily overexposed Portra 400 there. Film is needed for its different way of making the picture altogether. There are some limitations that can' t be simulated by a computer. First, digital picture is always made from Lego bricks, that can' t overlap each other. It is a different means of capturing the picture. You might as well ask, why oil colors are still produced, as anybody can use their cellphone, and make a digital file emulating oil colors. It is also much easier. This is just not the way visual arts work. I am not expecting film photography to catch the crowds in a way it was used by them, when digital technology was not available. And for prices, good oil colors and canvas are very expensive. The film prices for slide film and professional color negatives is now at the same level they were in the early 1990' s. if you count the inflation. Consumer level negatives are still in short supply, and their prices have risen. It is futile to compare the prices with those of the 2006 all-time low caused by price war between Kodak and Fuji, and prices not adjusted for nore than 10 years after this. Yes. I have heard this story about color film disappearing for about 20 years now. For Fuji, I doubt very much their plans leaving the scene altogether. Fuji is still the biggest player in photofinishing outside the US. By sacking film altogether, they would be sawing the branch they are sitting on. For Kodak, this would mean the demise of the whole company. There is no Eastman Kodak without color film. Do not mix the possible dissolving of Alaris with Eastman Kodak, which makes the films, and owns the technology and know-how.

Thanks Matti. Yeah, I'm just under the feeling that things (or Kodak) are getting a little out of hand in terms of pricing and future prospect. And yeah, as soon as you get back to Finland and have time, well dust off that F3 of yours!! 😉

That's right. Depending on where you're located, it could definitely be well above 20 bucks

Thank you so much!!! Yeah, I think I eventually BW film stay around as the prices are more are a lot more sensible and people can develop at home whiteout much problems. As a matter of fact I should be doing a video on the near future about scanning BW film, you might want to check that out. Once again, thank you so much!!

Fuji 200 (not the older C200) is repackaged Kodak Gold. Even the water is brown/yellow, when you prewash it. This is typical of Kodak filma, with all Fuji color films having a strong magenta dye instead.

The market says other. There is a massive growth in film sales, the value of old film cameras are increasing all the time and brands like pentax are about to release new affordable film cameras on the market. Film still have a massive appeal. The problem is only with color film. No matter how many different films we had in the past, they still came from only 2 mass producers, Kodak and Fuji and one stopped producing and the other is messed up.

Yes, if the file in your computer, or posted in social media, where people can look your pictures with their unregulated computer screens in wrong colors is what you want. Printing anything even closely resembling the quality of a C-type print made by ink jet technology will cost very much.

The companies have already cut the production and funny enough the problem right is that the demand is way bigger than it was 25 years ago. Right now is common to see shop running out of film stock. Sure prices have increased, and there are reasonable explanations for that as the covid crises and the war. Everything got more expensive and that is an understandable explanation. The problem for me is with Kodak. Let's forget that they have the color film monopoly right now, but compare the increase of their BW film stock prices with Ilford. the difference of the equivalent film stocks are huge.

That's interesting... At least here in Europe (Finland) BW film is widely available and doesn't seem to have any shortage. Plenty of Foma, Rollei, Adox, most ilford stocks... Kodak is also available in most shops, although I think that is has more to do with the obscene prices than quantity... By the way, where are you located?

@@WTFphotography Thank you for your reply. I forgot to mention it. I live in Japan on a small town in the countryside (Nagano prefecture). Perhaps the problem in my case is that I'm in a small town and the camera shop probably hadn't stocked up. But when he told me straight that they don't produce any more, I got worried. I wonder how long this shortage of raw materials will go on, if it is true.

@@Alex-pl5ic NO... BW has a quite a few mass producers and loads of small ones. BW isn't close to any danger, although some stocks seems to be a little harder to get, like Ilford HP5+, but there are other options, even cheaper ones like foma. In your case, could maybe be the fact that they would rely on fuji film stock? Then yes, they are not producing anymore.

I believe you. Problem is availability. Colour chemistry is difficult/expensive to get if you're not a in a bigger center. And although it can be affordable, it's still a lot more expensive then BW, both the film stock and the chemistry. With the colour film prices, it's hard to justify the investment for the chemistry if you are not shooting enough rolls.

@@WTFphotography Color chemistry or RA-4 papers in larger quantities is not actually very expensive. Those noob kits by Cinestill for absolute beginners can be expensive, if you calculate the price per picture. Yes, Rodinal is cheaper to use than Fuji X-press (about 1,40€/roll, if used to its maximum recommended capacity), but the cost of C-41 developer is not preventing anybody from developing these films at home. And yes, you probably need to order your chemistry from somewhere. That said, printing RA-4 is not for people shooting 5 rolls of color film in one year. Is printing B&W in darkroom fot them either? I have my doubts. For printing in the darkroom, RA-4 is dirt cheap, if you buy paper in rolls, and buy chemistry in bigger quantities. Printing Ilford Multigrade, and using standard B&W chemistry is much more expensive. Of course some basic equipment is needed (enlarger with color head, soma application for rotary developing and means to control the temperature of the chemistry). And no, it is not impossible. I was 15 when I started, and at 48 now, color prints is still what I like doing the most. I also do some slides and some black & white, but C-type made manually in a darkroom setting is my favorite medium. I remember I started color by shooting slides, and then I got interested in Cibachrome printing. Soon I found Ciba prohibitively expensive for a schoolkid budget, and I changed quickly into EP-2, the predecessor of RA-4 as a standard fot color C-type prints. I remember even then that many in the black & white photo community had the opinion that color is "impossible, just for professional labs, and not worth trying." Opinion was very strong, although they had never tried developing and printing color film at all. Just one word of warning;: RU-vid and internet are full of bad advice how to process color film. Beginning from bad equipment, second-tier chemistry, and not keeping up good practices in controlling developing times, agitation and maintaining constant temperature. They do all possible faults, but they don' r realize it, as their expectations are low, and you can correct pretty much anything in digital post production. This is not the case in analog process.

Well, but they kind of reach a pretty bad point already, at least here in Europe. Doesn't seem to make much sense to have an over priced product that you can't find to buy it. Unless (and I don't believe this is the case) the price increase was a way to slow current sales and given them time to produce and over flow the market. For me, personally, it's all connected to the Kodak Alaris stuff.

At this pace on prices it's easier not to have money available anymore before there is no C41. Let's hope Harman is serious about their new C41 researches and bring us some real NEW emulsions around. The Phoenix is already out.

BW will stay around for ever, but the problem is that the market is given clear signs of dropping c41, if fuji stopping production wasn't enough, Kodak alaris is reported for sale. That could end c41 depending who decides to buy it.

developing fim is actually easy, it's just to follow the instructions. About the color film, imagine that there are only 2 mass manufacturers, Kodak and Fuji... And no-one, not even Ilford, wants to mess with this.

@@WTFphotographyI know, but I don't shoot often and chemicals degrade over time. So for me it's easier to develop my film in local lab from time to time. I know about fuji and kodak, but how no one tried to compete against them. What's the problem, infrastructure, patents? If the prices of color film are similar with the b&w ones, I would shoot everyday + would bring my friends into photography but with these prices and unavailability of films, hard to do that.

@@SomeUnremarkableGuy I'd believe it has something to do with patents.

Jobo has ECN2 chemistry for sale, not sure how local you are able to find it there.

I’m in Europe too, I have access to all the major brands only cinestill is a bit harder to find… Never test Jobo chemistry, maybe for my next order 😉

That's right, it is possible. What isn't possible at the minute is to find a roll of colour film for less 15€. Just remember that if you do stand development for multiple rolls BW, you have it done for less then a dollar/euro.

Steer clear of Cinestill, and use better quality chemistry. Best are Kodak and Fuji. Tetenal chemistries are also fine (especially their professional products), but I would recommend avoiding using any "simplified" kits combining the bleach and fix in a single "blix" or bleach-fix step. It does work fine with fresh chemistry, but it can fail, and ruin your film. Tetenal is having difficulties this spring. and there are availability issues with their products at the time being.

Makes all sense. I tend to shoot my color photography in digital, not that I don't like color film, but because I never manage to scan color film right. But yeah, you're absolutely right, the prices are getting more an more obscene and impossible to explain or understand. But, I'm sure BW will stay around for a long time. In that sense I don't have to worry.

@@WTFphotography I also agree with the difficulty in scanning color film. I just don’t see the advantage of shooting 35mm color film at the higher prices, it takes a while to scan and not much of a resolution advantage over a good dSLR. At least we have black and white, which makes it worth while.

You are people who have not used film before digital technology become available. This is obvious. It is because you understand that the digital file as the desired final product of film photography. You probably read all your books from the computer screen, or listen to audiobooks. Book will be history in just two years... Film has been almost free from about 2005 until about 2018. This kind of pricing is not sustainable, as film is no more a product for mass market as it was before. It is futile to cry for higher prices. I can tell that color film was not particulary cheap in the 1990's, if speaking about anything better than Kodacolor VR100 sold in every grocery store.

@@b6983832 I actually shot film in the 1980’s and 1990’s and as a freelance news photographer. I agree, film was always expensive even back in the 1990’s. I remember buying rolls of color 35mm at close to 6.00 then, and of course most of us would shoot a frame here and there until the roll was finished. It would sometimes take us a few months to finish a roll.

@@CalumetVideo I can't get any prices in Europe in the early 1990's, but I remember that about 6€ was the minimum price range for consumer negatives. Slide film costed almost the double. Film was cheaper in the US, and it was not uncommon for European photographers to buy a lot of film when they traveled to the US. I found one article on US film prices, and in 1994, the price range for color negative was $ 7-9, and $ 12-14 for slide film. This equals to 3 21-25 price range in 2020 prices. Inflation has been huge since 2021, and films cost probably still less compared to inflation they did in the mid 1990's. I bought then Vericolor III in bulk rolls, and that was quite cheap option these times. You could get a professional quality film for the price of supermarket VR200 by loading yourself. In my opinion, 16€ for a roll of Portra, and 25 for Ektachrome is a fair price, if we agree that Kodak needs money for R&D also in the future. Kodak probably made a big mistake not realizing that their most loyal customer is not the common guy, who shot his vacation pictures with a cheap point-and-shoot camera before the digital age. Today, almost everybody has a camera in their cellphones, and film is not necessary for this segment of market. Instead, it is professionals and more serious hobbyists who are true clients for the photographic film division of Eastman Kodak. They don´t want the cheapest crap film, but a reliable supply of quality products. I don´t think I am in a position to demand ridiculously cheap prices for quality products, as the film prices of 2010 s were. This kind of pricing is not sustainable. Yes, I do understand that some folks shot their first rolls of film when film was dirt cheap, and they would like the situation to continue. However, this was not a normal situation in the market, and was caused by a price war between Fuji and Kodak. They (especially Kodak, as Fuji already had more products in the digital range) the common guy to continue shooting film. Trying to compete with cellphone cameras was obviously not the right strategy. Nobody shoots even weddings (typical work shot on 35mm film, if not digital) fot 25€, 500-700 € being the more realistic rate. So, it is not a question if these two rolls cost 10 or 30 € for the photographer. The issue has been more with the availability of film than the price hikes. Nobody wants to pay more, but if you could buy just 5 rolls of a wrong film, and then wait for months, or find you can´t ger RA-4 developer starter anywhere in months, has been much greater problem in the last years. At least, the worst supply problems caused by COVID are a thing of past. Still, you can´t go in a store, and buy 50 rolls of film.