The Future Is Not Blockchain. It's Hedera Hashgraph. | A Conversation with Leemon Baird 

Yes please

Block man. There is a huuuge difference. Hashgraph has ~among other things~ a platform to support apps.

Russell K. Bonney I don't really think you know what you're talking about

Doug Evans I was referring to Russel K Bonney. I agree with you.

Seen. I was stupidly trying to comment and simultaneously hide my own ideas for a network, so in that case you get rubbish out. my bad. What I should have said is that hashgraph is shit that only supports centralized apps or else you are left with gossip that can't be trusted to be true. Gossip in... gossip out. What people don't yet understand is that a great deal of centralization is valid if the data being passed around for verification is encrypted packets and a trustless peer network is involved in double checking those "mashes". Without giving the game away I have developed such a network that ticks ALL the necessary boxes. 'Open sourced' and 'decentralized' are just buzz words of a pipe dream. We are not nihilistic anarchists. We live in the real world of banks, governments and internet/mobilenet providers. What about that don't crypto cultists get?

Doug evans .It's tied to Swirlds dude!

Hi Hidden, Hopefully you respond to this message because i have a few more questions for you. First of all i wanted to say you did a WONDERFUL interview - it was more professional than 99% of the people in media. Your are highly knowledgeable and eloquent. I just learned about your show from Mike Moloney and i will be tuning in more often. Now, on to our discussion. I understand the "many chains" issue. However, the "slowing down of the network" is done via the protocol itself by only allowing "rewards" every ten minutes. If there is very little "mining'" being done then the protocol just makes the "puzzle" easier. The point being, you can run BTC on very very little energy. However, if you ran it on very very little energy (near zero) then you would leave your self vulnerable to outside influence. You or I could buy the computation necessary to influence the network. That is why we want to "waste" energy. It forces our enemies to waste energy to defeat us. I am very interested in Hashgraph. I wish you could have asked Leemon how one can game his network. What would be the cost of attaining 31% of the network? Additionally, I have been trying to find someone who can help me figure out the cost of securing the BTC network. In the future, when there is near zero mining reward, BTC will have to run on fees. if the BTC economy is 1 trillion, and the fees are 1% then the reward to miners is 10 Billion a year. How much "hashing power" would 10 Billion dollars a year provide? Is this enough security? Is 10 billion a year enough to prevent a state actor from constantly attacking the network? If you or someone else could figure this out i think it would make for a very very interesting discussion. Security = Crypto Economy * Mining Fee Percentage The issue being, users wants lots of security but very small mining fees. Its almost like our country where everyone wants a massive military but they don't want taxes. Something has to give...

The consumption of energy is a drop in the ocean compared to the impact of EV's - it's not remotely disruptive - it's disingenuous, you are going to financial institutions - Bitcoin goes to the people. People (without Ph'd's) are able to secure the network in a decentralized fashion across the globe so it's trustless - will anyone be able to peer at the virtual $5 note you hand them and find out exactly the history of that money and how it came to be in your hand right now? Or will that be the preserve of the central banks who will likely use this as a weapon to weild against bitcoin and other essentially trustless currencies - He is working on the premise that money is used almost excusively by malevoent actors - and yes of corse theres always some dodgy characters in every sphere of life - but to come out with a hachet job on bitcoin like that, which is really as much an intergral part of the anarcho libertarianism movement. It is quite clear where you stand in reation to Bitcoint - it's clear that hashgraph has no interest in sharing this space - that they have made a bee-line for those who salivate at the thought of a completely authoritatian state - what happens if you spend you money - perhaps inadveratly - on something deemed undesireable buy the central bank's/CIA/Dictatorship's/NWO? I mean it's possible that it was spent on something by accident - it also leaves the door wide open to framing - black mail - bribery - because Ironically the more transparent it is the more human beings will need to find a way to obscurify it - You are in Texas and you decide to buy a gun at a gun show - the gun is sold as new but it is far from new, it is implicated in severa heinous crimes - and now hashgraph has a record - permeament record - of you owning this gun and linking you to these crimes - where's the back door? Where's the right's of appeal - I mean its not a charity you've set up - the technology has been developed in Stealth - something so seem strangely proud off. So I am assuming that the ledge is can be altered? Also why are you skulking around in the shadows (sorry stealth) - hawking your spyware to finacial institutions and no doubt government agencies.- when the gold standard path forged by innovators in this field is open source peer review, you seem to think that proof of work - suddenly becomes proof of stake as finacial interest's manipulate the direction of the protocol - yet you fail to address that the protocols themselves live and die by their pragmatic meritocracy. Bitcoin is Bitcoin because people accept it as bitcoin and maybe is such a large store of wealth now that it isn't the most appropriate means to buy a newspaper and a coffee. But don't worry we have another more appropriatly scaled immutable, de-centralised, anonomous, trustless ledger. P.S that Bitcoin the currency itself - the currency that over 50% is in cold storage is susceptable to DDOS is insane - that the great fire wall of China wil suddenly arise and Chinese people (who won't be abe to transmit a block chain - yet wil be able to co-ordinate a global double spend - in real time is utter FUD and you know it. I would by into your ICO because it would make money - but I would also dump it in a week once people realise what your protocol entails and that it will never be used as currency - But unlike your hatchet job on Bit coin I'm not going to be so unkind - you do certainly have some utility. In the OBD ports of cars, implimentation would make me more comfortable - ahh, wait, no. Because there is back door acess isn't their - but that privliage lies within your pre-mined 1984 wannabe script. Also I don't like your face.

amershakir Completely read the white paper. i don't think that's a problem if you kick start the thing properly. It's a bit like tangle in that regard.

I will give it a go in regards to the white paper. I have now watched 5 hours of videos on hypergraph. I am not doubting the tech, but even they have not created a true cypto using the tech. I am sure someone much more technically gifted than me will create a hypergraph crypto in the near future. then we can start to figure out the true cost of securing the network. BTW, do you know of anyone that can explain how "secure" the btc network is based on hashpower? I am trying to figure out a "minimum" amount of electricity any proof of work system would need.

Do you know this for certain? Hashgraph hasn't been implemented as a public ledger yet - do you know that it can be?

@@benyaminewanganyahu what do you think about it now. look at all it has became.

Haha it is amusing to come back to this media and read the hate and shade as HBAR has gone open source and is moving towards anonymous nodes. It hasn’t killed blockchain either. If you want that greater degree of anonymity and are willing to pay high gas fees and lose staking opportunities bitcoin is always an option but don’t think it will continue to be valued at 20k plus: that’s overvalued.

Facts

As more and more computers joined into the mining, the problems had to get harder and harder (by design) to force work to allow the system to designate the "winner" at each stage of adding a new block. He explained this in the interview here. The more miners working = the harder (therefore slower) the process of "winning" needs to become.

Nothing slowed it down. Its just more people are using bitcoin now.this is why other cryptos are cheap - noones using them. In the early days of bitcoin the network was subsidised by inflation - coinbase rewards of 50btc per block now its just 12.5btc per block. That means that the fees need to be 4 times more for the same load vs pre 2012

You might be thinking of Ripple. Which is simply a way for large banks to transfer value quickly. Currently, it takes many days at great expense for banks to move value. It's not about control, but more about doing banking business with great cost efficiency. Ripple was designed to reduce banking costs related to money transfer.

This sounds like a CIA directors wet dream

Its just another sh*tcoin. Which infact hasnt even got a coin...

Al Darfco. Not a banker in sight unless they are operating their own private network on the hashgraph platform. In any case they can't have access to your coin or info whatsoever..

@@luct3368 well it does now. Hbar and it's not a shitcoin, it will be top 5 market cap one day and who knows probably make the others obsolete.

@Doug Evans And used by IBM, Google etc. Those mega tech companies aren't interested in your inferior garbage open source coins. They're open source because they have no use. Hashgraph has actual use so its creator actually patented it. Makes a lot of sense.

@Doug Evans The likelihood of open source code being valuable compared to closed source code is low. When someone truly designs something revolutionary, they want profit from it so they patent it. When someone just copy pastes garbage and wants to get rich quick off it, they might not care as much to patent it. Just hype the trash coin, sell it, and move on.

Well its open source now. They wanted to make sure it was ready to be open source and solve the forking issue. Now I guess there is no possible fud.

Thanks. I will be learning about them so that I can better decide... presently I only understand IOTA...

@Doug Evans Have any of those open source trash you mentioned achieved aBFT compliance? Have any of those open source trash you mentioned gotten any enterprise adoption? Have any of those open source trash you mentioned even close as fast as Hashgraph? The answer to all those 3 is NO. They are irrelevant in the long run. Pumped by get rich quick lambo mooners without any real world use. Just vehicles for gambling, nothing more.

Faster - Greener - Cheaper

Thanks. Today is the first I'm hearing about Raiblocks. I've never heard of IOTA.

Nice summary.

Im wondering why Leemon Baird hadnt mentioned iotas tangle, or for that matter DAG, in his list of types of ledgerst the beginning of this vid

Because they rol their own crypto

@Doug Evans IOTA is trash compared to Hashgraph. IOTA is NOT asynchronous byzantine fault tolerant (aBFT). That alone makes it worthless when compared to Hashgraph. Hashgraph is also faster and fairer, so there's that... And has way more enterprise adoption than any other public DLT so far.

It's Open Review, your welcome to run and test the code,