The thing I liked about the Bob sub-plot was, while he worked his arse off for comedic effect and was far from perfect, you did feel that given a bit of time he would get the rythnm and cope. But the moment he realised that he couldn't cope, instead of doubling down(due to machoness, pride etc) and getting even in more trouble as is the common trope, he called for help. That showed a level of maturity I didn't expect, and was refreshing to see.
Something that struck me about the film in a "Wow, I don't think I've seen that before in a movie and it's cool" sort of way is how Bob handled Violet's boyfriend. Not only does he NOT have a problem with his only daughter being interested in dating. He never becomes possessively overprotective like so many other dads in media do, he has a heart to heart where he RELATES to her problem. because of the system they live in and her powers, her choice to have a relationship with this boy was taken away from her and he knows how horrible it feels to have choices limited by the current system. Yeah the joke was that he really wants things to change because of his own desires to be a superhero again but also actually DOES want his children to have options and not be limited as well. That's amazing! LOVE it.
I'm glad Helen at NO POINT is made to feel bad because she is out working and not staying home with the kids! I also appreciated that Incredibles 2 didn't shirk away from complex feelings. It's difficult if your partner is having more (perceived) success then you. You can both want to support them, feel jealousy, and still manage to have a successful relationship. It's nice that we see Bob struggling with that. But most important - We learned Helen used to have a mohawk!
I saw this with my students, and I did like Helen trying to uncover the bad guy and Bob being supportive and even he recognizes how he needs to adapt and put his wife's and kids needs above his own.
This movie's rep will improve with age. The buildup was just too long, the expectations too high. It's a fantastic sequel, but it came out after good superhero movies were expected, and thus could only seem less special than the first. I hope we get a third before too long. Obviously, a Violet-goes-to-college, Gen-Z-saves-the-future tale.
There's definitely another story to tell about Violet. While Helen and Bob are publicly known only by their alter-egos, Violet and Dash as yet are not - Winston, for example, refers to Violet by name at the conclusion of the third act (while she's talking to Voyd/Karen, who already appears to have her own alter-ego figured out). Presumably that'll have to change now that Supers are no longer in hiding? The idea of a young woman figuring out her own identity while... also figuring out her own identity? There's so much potential left on the table. Not just in obvious plot points like 'how does she balance her relationship with an oblivious Tony', but also in themes like teenage resistance to following in the footsteps of parents; the sort of domestic concepts the series does a good job of capturing.
Helps that she's literally voiced by the actual director so everything's delivered exactly how the director wants it to be because he's the one delivering it
As a husband who has taken a break from my job to stay home and look after the children this past year, I saw the film in a very different light when I watched it again. Also, it's my youngest which doesn't like mushroom.
I did really like Incredibles 2, but I think it would be impossible for me to like it more than the first one because the first one has such an important place in my heart. That movie is one of the biggest reasons I became a writer.
It used to be extremely rare. The expectation was sequels would be inferior, they made less money at the box office, and studios often treated them as low investment projects for "bonus income" from a hit movie. In more recent years sequels being as good or even better is becoming rather normal. I guess like how TV shows tend to really find their way in 2nd or 3rd seasons. Movies are also now often looking to become a franchise so early success spurs even more investment. At least that's how it was before Covid-19. Who knows what "normal" will mean going forward now.
I thought Helen's flight to the island scene in 1 was my favourite scene. I also enjoy good portrayals of the Action Girl trope and Holly Hunter's voice generally wins my approval.
I know this video is 2 years old but, i am literally watching all your videos slowly and I love you insight and analysis of the more complex themes in the media we all know and love.
One thing I really wish they touched on in the movie (though it may have completely prevented the entire plot) was that the Deavor parents called *_Gazerbeam_* of all people, who is probably the most prominent of the supers that Syndrome killed, with Bob *literally finding his corpse* on that island. I feel like it would've been funny for Bob to at one point say something like "Well yeah I doubt his skeleton gets good cell reception in that underwater cave on Nomanisan"
Gazerbeam was still alive at the time of the call mentioned in the second movie. He had been dead about a month, or even less, when Bob was sent to Nomanisan in the first movie. This is noted when Bob sees Gazerbeam’s alter ego mentioned to have been missing for a month in the paper that Bob is reading.
@@nonnativenarnian A person is not reported missing after only having been gone for a day. He must've been missing for some time *before* it was reported by the newspaper. And in fact, as the paper reports, he was last seen outside of his apartment 10 days prior to the article's publication. Additionally, as Lucius mentions in his conversation with Bob, Gazerbeam (aka Simon Paladino) "had trouble adjusting to civilian life" after the Superhero Relocation Program. So, it's plausible that he was engaged in some covert hero work as well, meaning that he likely would've been absent for somewhat extended periods just as Bob was (maybe also under the guise of a "business trip"), so his abscense would have likely not been considered abnormal for a while before the missing person report was eventually filed. He's also responsible for the destruction of the Omnidroid v.X4 before being killed by the v.X5, so he (like Bob) had probably visited and returned from Nomanisan once before. Gazerbeam likely also wouldn't've been able to respond to the Deavor residence's call for help while on Nomanisan before his death, either. And, finally, he likely would've had to have been dead in the cave for long enough for his body to have decayed into a skeleton, though this may purely be a matter of artistic license.
To be fair, I'll say that the original was one of my favorite movies of all time. I did really enjoy the sequel, and I really appreciated the intentions behind most of the decisions like making Helen the focus. But it really just wasn't satisfying to me. The characters' arcs just didn't harmonize like they did in the first. In the first, Violet and Dash were thrown into a dangerous situation and they had to learn to rely on themselves and each other. In the second, Violet was mostly dealing with a crush on a boy. Dash was kind of just there being Dash. They ended up saving their parents but there was no real emotional payoff when they did. They were eager to do it and the biggest struggle they had was keeping Jakjak under control. And it's not like there was ever a point where they had to consider leaving him behind. Then at the climax they had the gall to have Violet say, "hey Dad I'm being responsible by taking care of Jakjak" as if that was her character arc. Why are you telling me Violet? Why aren't you showing me?? I think it's because it just wasn't true. I felt Helen was doing so much in the original. Her emotional challenges of knowing Bob had been lying to her but knowing she'd have to take the situation into her own hands and save him to confront him was interesting to me. Then she was struggling with the contradictions of how to keep her kids safe. She had been hiding her hero side or her to make sure they had a normal life. Now she had to be the hero to save them. Then ultimately, she had to put trust in the kids to be strong enough to take care of themselves. I'm aware that these are all situations that require her to be a wife and mother and it just wouldn't play well to modern audiences. But the movie at its core was about a family learning to be a family, as well as trying to save the world. The practical objectives and the emotional objectives aligned and resonated in a way that I really appreciate. I didn't find that resonance in the sequel. Also, Evelyn's motivations and evil scheme made no sense to me. Get supers legalized so they'll be illegal "for good"? The scene where Winston finds out she's the villain and we didn't get a powerful moment between them was enough evidence for me that there wasn't an emotional focus to the movie. I really hope there's a third movie. I think they should have done a time jump for the sequel so all the characters would have less contrived challenges to explore. We could have seen Jakjak struggle to come into his own and learn to be strong and humble at the same time, like Dash did in the original. We could have seen Dash struggle with the awkward social years like Violet did. And we could have seen Violet become a full blown adult and carry all the baggage that comes with that. Helen and Bob could deal with what it means to have one of their kids being full grown and their own aging. I just hope the next movie focuses on the emotional side like this.
best point yet, as evil schemes go its weak, Syndrome was a perfect simple to understand and almost sympathetic (if it wasn't for the killing) bad guy, and love that we are pulled into thinking all that motivates him his the desire to relive his glory days and only later realise as he does that his greatest fear is loosing his family, they are his streangth AND his weakness, its beautiful , seeing them all stronger as one, Helen may seem to have the 'wife work' (more appropriately HOUSEWIFE work) but she had accepted that sacrifice for the sake of her family, Bob was struggeling with the sacrifice he was making by working a soul sucking job because he wasn't spending enough time with them, the movie allows him to remember what is most important to him
I mean I liked the stuff with Elastagirl but I just found Bob and the kid’s storyline predictable. Maybe i’d relate more if I had kids? Dash especially was one of the most interesting kid characters I'd seen in a Movie. Now his storyline is just math homework. Jack-Jack was funny though.
Alas I can't say I liked the second one better, in fact I thought it was pretty bland. But there was a lot of hype. I can totally see where you're coming from, especially as you're a mom so that can help you relate to Helen (who is a great character) even more. I just wish the plot had been stronger and less of a retread (in my eyes anyway)
I'd recommend watching The Incredibles and looking very carefully for the enormous number of the hidden and not so hidden allusions to Greek mythology and the Greek gods. I then recognized it as a significantly better and deeper film than I gave director Brad Bird credit for initially..
Hmm. This gives me a new view of my home situation. You see, I (at 61) live with my mother (at 86 - father's been dead since 1983) and have slowly been taking over parts of her "wife work" over the years - mostly, I believe, on my own initiative, not that it didn't turn out to be necessary. She still does some of it, essentially enough to make her feel she still can. I'm doing the shopping, the washing, and feeding myself unless it's Sunday. (The cleaning is done by someone who comes once a week, and is now herself fairly old - no idea how that is going to work out.) She feeds herself, and does the dishwashing (with the dishwasher) twice a week, and feeds the cat. I think that's most of it.
I really loved the sequel because this was my family dynamic in middle school going forward. Long story short dad retired early to avoid mass layoffs, and mom suddenly became the main breadwinner overnight. So seeing bob take over the household wife work and struggle with it, really helped me understand why my dad wasn’t happy to be suddenly staying home all the time and why mom seemed more stressed doing a job I knew she liked. I was very young when all this went down, and the Incredibles came out around that time. Dad and I loved watching the original so it was so nice to feel seen in a sequel to a film that we both enjoyed.
Everything with the dad and the kids struck home for me. My other half and I both struggle with our son and housework and school. My boyfriend is better with math while I am better with all things language arts, accept adjectives, they are devil's spawn. And the problems the dad had helping his son with math personified how I feel everytime my partner is away and I am left as the parent to help. Even just the different ways the mom and dad handle things. My favorite part of the movie is a rather blink and miss it scene where the dad is holding Jack Jack and eating fruit. Anyone used to babies knows you passively feed the baby then yourself, but he doesn't do this. It's a subtle scene that shows loads of character development. It shows that he has never once been left alone with any of his kids as infants. All in one small scene no one but a parent would catch and I love it.
My family absolutely loves the original Incredibles... because the family banter is so realistic. Although the 2nd definitely has some awesome qualities
The thing that makes the first movie better for me is the depth and number of the references to everything from comic books (Generic superpowers: Super strength, speed, and durability) to the design of machines in Hanna-Barbera cartoons. I waited a long time for the sequel and once I saw it, I would have happily waited longer.
I didn't like the film, because I loved the original and I thought the sequel was doing the basically same thing, as if the original didn't matter. And I personally like Helen more too, because she's a better character. And Holly Hunter's voice gives me goosebumps. Also, the original left me stunned, while the sequel felt just "OK", and "OK" nowadays means "we did the bare minimum not to make a bad film so we could cash in". But, all of your points are valid and I'll give it one more chance.
I agree with the song, "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, make a bad ass woman your wife." And yes, I know, but I like this line better.
I rewatched the first movie shortly after watching the second, and honestly the second movie made me appreciate the first more because while the second movie is visually spectacular, the first had much better pacing, the villain was more entertaining and better motivated, and the finale was much more intense and exciting. The first movie also has this very high-stakes feel to it. There is a lot of death and threat of death in it. Syndrome has killed dozens of heroes. He's not afraid to risk the life of his assistant. He's gleeful at the prospect of firing a missile at an airplane with children aboard. This in particular leads to a powerful emotional moments because while the audience knows Mr. Incredible's kids are alive, he believes they are dead, and we see him experience the grief and anger. 2 is alright, but it can't hold a candle to the first movie.
I think the first was more entertaining, "wifework" means nothing to me since my wife and I do work and take care of everything together since the begging for over a decade now. As far as I'm concerned Terminator 2 is the only sequel actually superior to it's original movie followed close by Rocky 2, Spiderman 2 (DocOc) and Aliens.
Toy story 3. Men in black 3. Lethal Weapon 2. I rest my case. Not to say Incredibles 2 was any good--it wasn't. It lacked the patented "pixar character arc" that makes all its other movies so good.
Jill - I just love you so much! Thoughtful, wise, and fun! One of may favorite books ever is one called “The Right to Useful Unemployment” that explores the hidden work, like “wife work” that hold society together but aren’t usually acknowledged. I love this discussion and seriously want to try stage combat, because of you and you alone. I am a mild drama geek who also took ninjutsu once upon a time and would LOVE to blend that physicality with telling a story. Brava!!
I liked the 1st one mainly for the villain and the kids. And Edna, of course. Just liked it, didn't love it, but the 2nd one made me laugh out loud, as well as tear up, quite a lot of time, which the 1st one never did. The animation, the comedy and the heart are on a whole another level. And after discovering that the director himself voices Enda made the ride even more enjoyable.:) This movie moved me in a lot of different ways, and that's coming from a 26 year old without any kids and who doesn't usually like "family shenanigans" movies.
Off topic, but at 2:38 a bird or large butterfly lands on a flower over Jill's left shoulder. Any idea what that is? Excellent video on a great movie BTW Jill!
I do think that where the film faltered a bit was with Bob's reaction to Helen's first outing. Where she's revelling in how she got to stop a train and he's clearly a bit strained a jealous over it. I kind of feel that moment would have been better if his reaction to her saying "I stopped a train!" was more "Hell yeah you stopped a train!" It would have meant his efforts to take care of the family side of things were less coloured by ego, wanting to show he can do as good a job of that as Helen is of the heroics, and would have been more genuinely supportive, wanting to keep things going smoothly by himself so Helen didn't feel the need to come back and stop doing what she loved
My interpretation of that scene was that Bob was very genuinely happy for and supportive of Helen while also feeling incredible (ha) envy because he wasn't the one doing it. It made sense to his character that his support, while genuine, would be strained, because Bob had had trouble with his ego in the past. He clearly loves and supports Helen and is also feeling great envy at the same time, so that's why the interaction was so strained on Bob's part.
That's as much a criticism of Bob as a person as of the film itself. Him wanting to be supportive, but also feeling jealous that she's getting to live his dream is a very natural response, and I like that the film shows it, rather than having him be entirely supportive...
@@rmsgrey I agree! It wouldn't have made sense to his character if he was 100% completely supportive without any other feelings. I think he showed great strength (ha) in how he handled the situation
The first Incredibles had a much stronger antagonist IMHO. I love the focus on Hellen, I love making Bob sweat for his part in the movie, but the set up & payoff for Syndrome was so much more satisfying. Screen-Slaver felt much flatter in comparison.
Saw it today for the first time and i love it so much. The family problems part of the movie is more interesting to me than the superhero part, yet it was the superhero part that made me want to watch it. I need to rewatch the original, tho, its been way too long since i saw it. Also, Jack-Jack vs. The Racoon is the best scene, dont at me
I saw The Incredibles 2 on an airliner inbound to Singapore en route to New Zealand. Going through the transit lounge would have ben considerably easier if the lady collecting the tickets hadn’t looked EXACTLY like Edna E Mode.
No it wasn't--it was boring. The character arcs in the second one don't have nearly the same significance as the first. Hell--there aren't any character arcs! Helen Doesn't learn anything in this one--she doesn't change from beginning to end. That's like, story-telling no-no number one. You want your story to be boring, make your characters static.
I think Helen was shown as able to do it all in the first film, while Bob was shown to be limited in both. It's really a classic sitcom pairing where we are asked to believe that all around amazing women are married to lovable lunkheads. The first movie delivered at least a half a dozen amazing action sequences, several of which had Helen/kids and no Bob. I don't remember Bob doing any super heroics on his own in second film, but I could be wrong.
1 never quite landed for me, nice atmosphere not fussed on the plot. 2 was fun if obvious, I felt the “Bob can’t remember things his wife told him but never really took in” was played a little too close to the trope but he did make a number of good decisions and clearly cares about his family. As someone who likes some things written down it was relatable if movie-typical behaviours (you tell me stuff as we are about to go to sleep and I’m either not sleeping for a few more hours thinking I’d ways to fix it or I’m treating it like a human teddy bear outreach moment)
Hmm. Jumping in late here, but: Empire Strikes Back, The Road Warrior, Desperado, Clerks II, Wrath of Khan, Henry V/Richard III, The Good the Bad and the Ugly. And several Bond movies. TV shows sometimes use their first season to find their feet but movies more likely use up their good ideas in the first go and then feel the need to return to the well to suck up more sweet sweet cash.
I loved the entire How to Train Your Dragon franchise but I think movie 2 is the best of the three. I wish you would do a video on the franchise including the tv shows because I love them so much.
I know this has absolutely nothing to do with the video, but I love your look (you going to a dance queen?) oh and your giant butterfly bush in the background.
That reason for liking the 'dad discovers being a mom is really hard' trope in this instance is really interesting. He's not incompetent. That's a problem I've had with the way men are depicted when they're out of their element, and I think you're right. It doesn't fit Bob in this case, and that makes me really happy.
It might be because the villain was originally meant to be something totally different (evil robot or something) and the one we got was added at the last minute.
Honestly I thought Bob staying home with the kids was probably the best part of the movie aside from Helen going out and kicking butt. The villains, not so much. In the vilians defense Syndrome was a really tough act to follow, but honestly i just found the villian to be.... forgetable. The Parr family dynamics is honestly the best part of the movie and it makes the movie worth watching.
This is stuff I like but wanted to love. The mystery part was too obvious and if I hear "we need to bring supers back" I may become a super villain out of annoyance. The family is great don't get me wrong, but I wish Pixar hadn't pushed this movie up a year and let it cook til it was done. Here's a reboot that was better then the original: Mad Max Fury Road!
When was the sequel superior to the original ? The Bride of Frankenstein (1935) v. Frankenstein (1931) ~~~~~ Same studio, same director, same actors in the 2 lead roles .... But add "typical" quantities of background music, a bigger overall budget, and Ernest Thesiger as Doctor Pretorius, and it's on another level ~~~~
I've rewatched The Incredibles multiple times but I've never rewatched The Incredibles 2. Maybe that's just me but as a movie I didn't think it was a good or as memorable.
I hate the bad guy because she blames heroes for a tragedy in her life. Why didnt she blame criminals? She could have had an extreme hate for them and will do anything to see them defeated, including death.
Strange Incredibles 2 is literally my life at the moment. 1 teen girl, 1 boy, 1 toddler (who has multiple powers, mostly around charming his mom and destroying everything else.). I quit my suck job last year. I am floundering in picking a new career. My wife is kicking ass at hers and just recently got a rather large promotion which means I'm running neay all of the household. I dont have the big mansion, but I am doing a top to bottom home renovation gutting because I didn't already have enough going on. Only missing the super suit and the ability to power lift a car. Very strange.
On the subject of Pixar, I always loved Toy Story 2 better than the first one (or the third one, for that matter), and Cars 3 is the best Cars movie. Personally, I thought the best part of Incredibles 2 was just the action, and now that we have Into the Spiderverse, I'm not that starved for animated superhero action. The other notable case where I prefer sequels to the original is Chronicles of Narnia, where the first two books (in the publication order) are much more noticeably flawed than the others, which are masterpieces of tonal and thematic resonance (and also less blatantly sexist).
You should look up The Mental Load comic by Emma. It’s a good way to put across this concept to people who don’t get or deny the idea. Also agree it’s more enjoyable than the 1st!
I.....was literally just discussing wifework today with a coworker who is dealing with this. While we were talking I realized I only knew one man who was an exception to the type of man you described, and.....he's pretty much unpleasant in most other ways. But, heeeyyy he throws away his own trash and washes his own dishes so that's downright progressive I suppose! (ughh) We need more Bobs in this real world of ours.
In a shock to Nobody, I think that Turrican II was an evolution over Turrican I, streamlining some elements (Goodbye 4 different Bomb options, hello infinite Gyroscope) and improving on others. (Dat Lazor) Turrican 3, on the other hand, wasn't a Bad Game, but I'd have preferred that they adapted Super Turrican instead of Mega. Also, Perhaps we can discuss Incredibles 2 if I do manage to hit 200 HoLs?
I have to disagree. The sequel seemed a bit mediocre compared to the first one. The heroes were OK, but the Dad is terrible at domestic work is very, very cliche and borderline sexist. Worse, the villain/plot was terrible. It didn't have to be a twist but it was setup like one but painfully predictable. There were some good bits but it was a very long wait for little result.
I got the impression that him being bad at domestic work was less about him being a man and more about the fact that he's just never done it before? Like doing laundry is one thing, doing laundry for an entire house, cooking, cleaning, and taking care of kids, is stressful and hard especially when you've never done it before. Helen had been doing it for 15 years and also had experience as a super hero, so it makes sense that she would be good at both. Bob had only ever worked an office job and been a super. Also consider this was set in the 1960's. Anyone would have difficulty with Bob's situation if it was there first time, but it isn't far fetched to think that a man would find this difficult considering that it's the 1960's and not something men commonly if ever did. Either way, I felt like they didn't lean super hard into the whole 'He's a man so he doesn't know what he's doing!!!' thing, it was overwhelming because taking care of a house and kids is overwhelming in general.
Okay. Bob did a dumb thing in the first movie, but by the end he learns his mistake, rather painfully, which leads him to be the Bob he is in the second.
Yeah... I have The Incredibles down as my all time favourite Pixar. I also actively disliked the sequel. There was a LOT to like, but it just didn't hold together. I dunno, maybe I should watch it again, but... I ain't overly hopeful
Wifework. I find that when a man is unable to manage a house (cleaning, etc), it is his own mother that failed. She failed to teach him how to do laundry and dishes and cooking and... If he is married and still cannot do these things, it is his wife that has failed him. Husbandwork. I taught my daughters how to change lights, replace a toilet, repair broken furniture. AND I taught my daughters how to defend themselves. (see below) My mother failed me so I had to learn to be a single father and do housework by myself. I did NOT fail my children. When my I sent my 26-yr old daughter to Germany to study the language, my red-headed pasty skinned Irish daughter was at a club with her bf from Nepal. The Nazi Youth decided that was 'bad' and tried to .. well do what nazi youth do best. My daughter was arrested for putting five of them in the hospital. The Chief of Police of the Berlin police Dept personally tore up her arrest report and had her returned to her host family in pride.
I hate this film! The first film is an ode to the Superhero genre and it works so well. The sequel is just a mess and I always thought Helen was the hero in the first one. I do not think you are supposed to like Bob in the first movie at all.
Agree. You don't have to dislike Bob either in the first one. He has both positive and negative traits just like any other character. And yes, Helen was already the biggest hero, she was a mastermind and great at getting things done too. The relationship between the kids and between parents and kids is much better in the first film too. The plot is also much more interesting. And visually much more beautiful and epic.
If you're inclined to relate more to the woman, and are pleased by the sub-plot of Bob struggling to do "wifework" as a sort of object lesson in how difficult running the house and raising the kids can be, I get that... but of course there's another side to that coin. Imagine being stuck in a boring, dead-end job with an abusive boss and staring down a nightmarish future of doing the same thing every day, every year for decades... and you have no power, and you have no rights, and you cannot leave because you're responsible for bringing home the money... and it's never enough money... and you feel like that's your fault... and if you screw up or get fired you're a letdown and a failure as a father and husband.... and you have to suffer under that obligation and guilt endlessly for decades. Don't get me wrong. "Wifework" is hard, and it's stressful and it's thankless and endless... but being the sole breadwinner in a family is no picnic either, and I think it's interesting that Jill can empathize with Helen and all the stresses and challenges of "wifework" but is bored and disinterested by Bob's storyline in first movie, in which he's trapped in a miserable job, overwhelmed by his family's dependence on his income and desperate for something, ANYTHING different to happen in his life. I thought both movies were great, and I can understand how miserable Bob was in the first movie, just like I can understand the turnabout in the second movie. I think both movies had something to say about the challenges of being part of a marriage and a family, and it's sad to me that people can find sympathy for the pressures of traditional women's role while feeling nothing for the pressures of traditional man's role.
I usually agree with you on things, but I actually think the Incredibles 2 is the worst sequel in the Pixar canon. Mainly because it repeated the exact same story of 1, regurgitates every fight scene as a "stop the big transportation machine", does nothing with the family except redundantly retrogress the kids' development from what's supposed to be 10 minutes prior to the start of 2, has a nonsensical super-villain with a nonsense motive, and of course, Brad Bird's thinly veiled objectivism dripping through every crevice (don't get me started on the "who is more important, inventor or salesman" 'debate' they had in here).
The Randian nonsense in the first film could be explained by the subject matter. The structure and logic of mainstream superhero stories dovetails nicely with her ideology. But with 2 that shit became blatant. Then you learn he directed 'Tomorrowland' and 'Ratatouille'. Both stories that, albeit in a more subtle fashion, glorify letting the 'naturally superior' people take over. All the dumb-dumb plebs should just get out of the way. Even if means letting a dirty, diseased rodent hang around your food.
@@mysteriiis If superheroes fit into Ayn Rand's philosophy, they wouldn't save people--they'd rule the world. Your response betrays your lack of understanding of Ayn Rand--her whole shtick was "people ought to be selfish and only work towards their own benefit", which is completely contrary to the superhero genre, and not at all present in the Incredibles. At no point does Bob contemplate taking over the world--at no point does he even contemplate acting to the detriment of society. It's a story of identity, not ideology, though to an ironic twist, the main villain of the first movie seems to share YOUR ideology. "If everyone's super, no one will be". You're essentially saying we shouldn't respect the exceptional people among us, we shouldn't respect those with great talent. This is a blatant defense of mediocrity, and one you should be embarrassed of spouting.
@@graysonbaker1744 There is a different between 'respecting' and 'permitting to act without restriction'. And he happily acts to the detriment of society in the beginning of Pt 2. The Incredibles tear up several city blocks; and then get deservedly reamed for it by actual, real law enforcement. The movie then demands that we accept whatever havoc they cause because 'they just wanted to help'. And that's the point. Standard model vigilante-superheroes are selfish, entitled, and arrogant. The whole story model is based around the idea that all civil authority is evil and stupid. That superheroes would never be allowed to 'do the right thing' because of 'red tape' or some such nonsense. Because the big bad gubmint would stop Superman from stopping a plane crash. Come to think about it; they're actually far better Randian propaganda than her own works. She was too obvious with her selfishness. If she'd been smart enough to cloak her douchebags in a veneer of self-righteous do-gooder-ism; they might be more popular outside her cult.
Or, you know - in case your husband goes out and does a dangerous job. . . 93% of all work-related deaths and all. . . Nothing to see here, amirite? Sheesh.
Oh dear. Yes, I remember hearing that a lot, but that's a slanted reading, and not terribly fair to a story full of so many non-Randian figures and ideals. Please check out the Renegade Cut episode on this very topic.
The Incredibles 7/10 - A pretty decent animated film but not top drawer. The Incredibles 2 9/10 - Much better - One of the best Animated movies of the past 30 years.
I don't get the affection for this one. The plot is little more than a gender swapped re-hash of the first one, which already said everything there is to say about the family's need to come together as one and to stop fighting each other. Bob _needs_ to be a flawed husband in the beginning, otherwise his character would not have any room to improve himself. The thing with female protagonists these days, however, seems to do much less of the "I need to mend my ways to save my marriage and my family" vibe going on, which is really strange to me, because we _expect_ it from any male hero - because it's good storytelling! What is _not_ good storytelling? *Not* giving your hero any flaws to overcome. And yes, that goes for heroines just as much. Also, the whole "Jack Jack has super powers now" subplot is played as a _surprise,_ which it is *NOT* for anyone who loved the first movie enough to buy the DVD and watch the extra short film - or who simply watched it on RU-vid a year later. This one really threw me off, because I did not expect Pixar to expect _me_ to be genuinely baffled at something I had already seen from them TEN years ago. To me, "I2" shares Pixar's worst script writing with "Finding Dory": nothing new on the western front. It's all been said and done before. But look! We have got a girl in the protagonist slot now! I really don't get it. Why don't people write some new Ellen Ripley or Sarah Connor characters? You know, heroines who bodly go where *no man* has gone before instead of re-treading the path that a male hero has prepared for them in the first part of the franchise?
Yeah... two characters having the same arc--despite the gender difference--is a no-no. Every character--in order to feel unique--ought to have their own separate flaw to overcome. Helen, in number 2, had no flaw, and therefore her story was horribly boring.
I liked the second one better too. Bob's plot was interesting, Helen's plot was interesting, Violet's sub-plot with the guy she liked was interesting, the villain was interesting, the battles were exciting and it was fun seeing all the different powers at work and the creative ways they used them. All that and, I have to admit, Helen is HOT in this movie.
Helen HAD NO PLOT. Can you tell me exactly how she changed from beginning to end? I doubt it--you know why? Because she doesn't. No change--no motion-- makes for bad storytelling
