The Infernal Logic of Jihad: A Conversation with Graeme Wood (Episode  

Because Israel is essentially a Western state?

Muslims and their supporters doesn't care for Yemen neither.

Very true

You’re quite right. This hyper fixation on Israel isn’t motivated by love for the poor poor Arab refugees. It’s real motivation is and always has been the hatred of Jews.

Even the middle east doesn't care about this

Definitely irrational to "fear" 1/5 of the worlds population

That's being sane and informed.

It’s rational to fear all the nations who hold religion as some sort of validation for anything. The U.K. and US over Iraq, Israel over the occupation of land because of its “holy sites” hamas and hezbollah nations for their hatred of non-Muslims (even more so ex-Muslims) Hinduism and their saffron terrorists. The Isreal Palestine conflict to me looks more and more as if religious ideals have overtaken national sovereignty to despicable consequences.

​@@Theactivepsychoswhat can be easily explained by greed and racial tribalism i see no reason to attribute to religious marketing.

Especially when they do what Hamas recently did, on October 7,, and not a single important Muslim voice, has a problem with it . With Jews and Israelis they at least have a much greater capacity to actually criticise their own side.

Hitchens was an ardent critic of Israel and had been pro-Palestinian his whole life. Ofc, he'd condemn Hamas and Islamic extremism, but would have a much more nuanced and robust conversation on the plight of the Palestinians than Sam ever has, and unfortunately, ever will.

@@NavAK_86you're absolutely correct. It's unfortunate.

He is very missed. To think kids these days get their “intellectual” influences form the likes of Hasan Piker and video streamers…

I go back and watch his debates. He had so much faith in humans. This king themselves into a better future

​@@NavAK_86Hitchens detested Islam. The October 7th attacks probably would have made him reconsider the way September 11th did.

This guy isn't a clear voice but a voice of deceit and if you cannot see that, well, I feel for you. He CLEARLY has a standing for isreal and the zionist who believe the entire Arabian peninsula belongs to them. You keep following him and he'll lead you to a place you would regret deeply

"Standard for clear thinking" bwhaahahahahahahhahh

His thinking is very foggy on this issue. Quasi-religious even.

Listen to Gabor Mate's take

@@arsphoenix1822an example?

@@strongblackcoffee9573gabor mates take was so superficial and emotional and failed to recognise the issue, he thinks the rise of anti semitism after oct 7, is from “sickness of the soul”? Whatever th Fu** that means, just goes to show how little he knows about islam and how ignorant he is of it, didn’t know who he was, and im so glad to have found out what he’s about so that I don’t waste any more time on that guy.

Justified, no. Explainable, yes. Everyone knows Hamas are monsters. But do you really know so little of the history of the area that you cannot see a single reason why this might happen?

@@theepiphany3560 I know a little history and I understand the rage. The part that disgusts me is the barbaric sadistic actions taken by these monsters against innocent civilians. No valid excuse for it. None!

@@theepiphany3560 There is a "reason" why everything happens. Whether or not that reason is justified is the question.

Not justified but expected, given the situation.

Hamas didn't exist until 39years of Israeli occupation and killing . we're not saying that Hamas are not barbaric, we're just saying that They're in a defensive position and Israel is in an offensive position. what Sam is doing is hypocrthical and unfaire. he is focusing on the moral equavalence and without adressing the geopolitical picture and not showing any concerne about Palestinian civilian deaths. @@dogsandyoga1743

Hi Paul, I find your comment very interesting, because I studied Rwanda and Haiti at the doctoral level. Apologies if I am misunderstanding or missing something, as I go into this lengthy but of course still incomplete (as there is too much to cover) reply: It sounds like these examples from Rwanda and Haiti make you more in agreement with Sam. In contrast, my research on those situations is the primary reason I am very critical of Sam's take on Israel-Palestine: he is essentializing the groups (culturally and religiously) rather than analyzing the historical and political conditions that shape the situation, which is precisely what feeds never-ending cycles of violence. Even Christopher Hitchens, an anti-Zionist anti-theist of Jewish descent, was able to appreciate the plight of the Palestinians while still denouncing Islamic extremism, so I'm not sure why it is so difficult for Harris. As Hitch said, "I'm one of those people of Jewish descent who believes that Zionism would be a mistake even if there were no Palestinians." As for Rwanda, the Hutu genocide of the Tutsis was organized by the French-backed Habyarimana regime. The Hutu Power ideology had been fomented for decades by the Catholic Church. The transition of Hutu and Tutsi from relatively fluid class categories into hardened racial identities was "gifted" by Belgian colonial race science. When the Rwandan Patriotic Front exiles invaded from Uganda to put down the genocide, they took power and became victim-savior figures on the world stage. As the RPF began leading reprisal massacres against Hutus and installing a veritable Tutsi ethnostate, the world powers gave the victims of genocide a free pass. Conveniently, the RPF are also a major player in the brutal extraction of conflict minerals from the ever-destabilized Congo. The major lesson is that a historically victimized group cannot be given a free pass to commit reprisals. The historical record can be used to construct Hutu and Tutsi nationalist projects, so some kind of common identity must be (re)disovered. If there is a religion to blame here, it is Catholicism, but even that would be very reductive, just as the religious thesis is in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Truth and reconciliation committees have been important for de-essentializing these groups and trying to open a path forward. We need to see something similar in Israel-Palestine instead of one-sided polemics against religion (and just to be clear, I am a complete anti-fundamentalist when it comes to religion, all religions, but this is only one factor among many in the situation). As for Haiti, the executions, massacres, and dismemberments in Haiti from 1991 to 1994 were committed by FRAPH, a US-backed paramilitary death squad led by General Raol Cedras and Emmanuel Toto Constant. They massacred thousands of members of Aristide's Fanmi Lavalas Party and now live in exile in the US and Panama. The US refused to extradite Cedras and refuses to open FRAPH's documents from their time as the ruling regime in Haiti. At this time, some former Duvalierist macoutes, the terroristic secret police from the Papa and Baby Doc regimes, were also massacred by peasants as retribution for their many decades of inflicting torture and mutiliation and death on the Haitian peasantry. This is another vastly complex situation with internal and external factors that is irreducible to a simple cultural or religious explanation, but the Western eye frequently just sees Haitian psychopathology just as it frequently only sees Arab backwardness when looking at Palestine. Knowing the geopolitics that shaped these nightmarish and ongoing situations in Rwanda and Haiti makes me logically and morally opposed to the idea that it's simply culture or religion that creates the conflict in Israel-Palestine. When Sam uses his favorite term "moral equivalence," what I hear is an obfuscation of the social, historical, and geopolitical realities at play, which would be the abysmal conditions in the West Bank and Gaza. To appropriate a favorite phrase of Sam's, these conditions are "crazy-making." If we could wave a magic wand to erase Hamas and even Islam itself from West Bank and Gaza, the apartheid would still need to end or else the social pathologies would continue to fester, just under new aesthetics. Apologies again for the length of this reply. I tried to keep it as brief yet complete as possible and likely failed at both. Regards.

You should look up the Nanjing Massacre.

I find the swipe at denial of healthcare, and public safety for trans people (thinly dog-whistled as “people who feel their human rights are being violated if their egotism is not “validated” by strangers) as an unconscionably noxious straw man. Being assaulted, thrown out of hospitals, denied even ordinary (much less obviously trans-related health care), raped, murdered, having ordinary work and housing rights denied as a matter of law- simply for who people are born as- is exactly the same dehumanization that leads to atrocities. The very same groups that deny equal legal protection by law, and promote de facto violence against trans people by strangers ARE the same groups that promoted and GOT- jailing, systematic legally protected torture, mutilation and death penalty for lgbtq people, in Uganda. The human rights violations against trans and gay (lgbtq) people in the US and the same people promoting legally sanctioned dehumanization for inborn traits, ARE the same people promoting atrocities on a grand scale elsewhere. Shame on you for using intentional fallacies to promote a political agenda of acceptable rights violations, assault, torture and homicide- against your preferred group to hate, while hypocritically posing as someone who cares about the atrocities committed in the name of the bigoted dehumanization you yourself full-throatedly endorse.

Read the old testament and you will find plenty of these exact acts done in the name of a god, and commanded by as well, and done by Israel.

@@bitterroots7317 yes, not to mention plenty of terrorism and terrorist manifestos from the Jewish Lehi/Stern Gang during the founding years of Israel. And one of the founders became PM in 1983.

That was extremely well put.

It's diabolical- but religious dogmas do go extinct - they really do - Sadly, not in our lifetime, however. ☄️

Agreed!!!

Hitchens’ pointed out many times how religion, any religion, has severely retarded the advancement of civilization, everywhere, every time. You cannot think rationally while believing the irrational. Religions are not progressive by definition. The are indeed the man-forged manacles of the mind.

100%

Even Nazis kissed their wives and kids good night.

They didn’t want to be the person that wasn’t participating, leaving the nasty work for others to complete

We are all otherwise "good" people, except when we deal with the "other". Jeez, I never needed to read books to understand that. I recently saw american media, otherwise a very humanistic media, celebrate ingenious tricks of ukrainian forces to trap and bu*n alive many russian soldiers. Those russian soldiers were obviously the "other" soldiers. So were the civilians in hiroshima and nagasaki. We all, in our own frames of references, do find justifications for doing many things that we otherwise would not agree with.

​@@saimbhat6243dont invade other homes. Oh you want a peaceful war lol

@@Dan16673 nothing justifies the horrific actions of torture and killing

Where can we find that?

I can’t find it

Can you provide a link?

Thank god, at least Dawkins is still in touch with reality.

@@MS-gx1tk lFnfDYHnghg

Indeed. Making the discussions live would grow his podcast, thereby spreading these important ideas and conversations.

If they were in front of a camera, people would tell him to wear a nicer suit. Listen to the conversation.

I’d love to see beautiful, musical visualizers over all these conversations. Maybe with overlayed, repetitive beats like most Twitchers have constantly playing. It’d be so cozy & relaxing 👏

Yes

@@Refurb963 Seeing the person talk makes it more relatable and engaging.

Depends where you live. It doesn't concern me in the Nordics much. Failed integration of immigrants and refugees is a much more pressing issue among a dozen others.

​@@hartyewh1true, but people with medieval violent ideas live amongst us and the secret services have thousends ands thousends of the dangerous ones on their black list. Too many to watch 24/7. That's a 'minor' issue.

​@@hartyewh1And those immigrants, which culture they from? What religion they follow?

@@hartyewh1 The failed integration is almost exclusively due to islam culture and background. All others immigration waves did integrate correctly with time, the one who doesn't and even has a long-term impact on the quality of life and security of the host country is the muslims one.

@@elsenm3965 With time as in the next generation is happening with the Syrian refugees as well. In my work I've met several and Islam has nothing to do with it and many are rather secular or culturally islamic instead of religously. They just have very limited support to get into employment, learn the language etc since most of those services were and are too limited for such a sudden jump in the amount of people needing them.

That's been my beef with Sam for years is that he doesn't seem to enjoy going on video, despite it being much easier to follow. For this reason, I often watch other channels who bring Sam on.

🥴🥴🥴

How many were they ? What makes you Say it wasn't spontaneous but prepared ?

It's not

@@sg23148 I know.

For the 1st time today i heard him say at the beginning if you cannot afford a subscription then send an email and you will be given one. I have pondered the value of having access to the rest of his talks quite a number of times over the last year. But as i have an unrecoverable injury (that limits my activities and income) i couldn't commit to the 8 pound a month subscription. So i will send this email i think, as i am a genuine case and would sincerely appreciate his full content. Maybe this is an option for others if they are aware of it.

You are wasting your time friend if you aren't even listening

@@Mac-qi5nzwhat are you talking about?

Read his correspondence with chomsky

If you can't afford it Sam offers you free subscription. Stop whining

You people are on crack. Thats your take? Get guns so you can protect ill gotten goods?

I'd argue rationality and healthy skepticism rather than simply "atheism".

I don't trust atheists either. The Soviets were a thing. I'm for a strong constitutional democracy with secular government and public education. There must be a national civics course of study that emphasizes liberal values.

As an atheist it is sad to see these kind of extremist comments - a genocide of palestinians is happening as we speak. Diplomats and govt strategists around the world, along with the UN condemn it as a totally unnecessary and stupid way to respond to terrorism. There are steps that could be taken right now to decrease deaths on both sides

@@dogsandyoga1743yeah. There was a time when Christians were called atheists pejoratively. We need to focus on skepticism and observations of reality.

I'm not able to find any option for downloads.

Though it does offer the option to download an RSS feed that links with your podcast app, so perhaps you can download episodes through such an app? Not sure.

You can't take religion out of islam. That is like saying "take life out of humanity" or "take food out of spaghetti." It is inherently part OF islam, ffs. Islam's whole being is a religious reality. The very reason that people think it has meaning/authority is because they believe it is what their god wants. And that is the very problem. With anything else, the substance and reasonableness of beliefs are scrutinized. With religion, it is given a free pass from such analysis, both by the believers, and by most people outside of it, via the "Everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs" doctrine. They get to HAVE the beliefs. They do NOT get to have them without them being criticized. Far too many people lack the slightest courage, to attack any wrongful religious beliefs, and that is because they know it opens the door to their own beliefs being addressed, and they know their beliefs are also ridiculous and often dangerous.

@@slyjokerg yes you can.

@@chavruta2000 You are either incapable of understanding the nature of it, or you are being utterly intellectually dishonest.

@@slyjokerg or too busy to explain it to you.

@@chavruta2000 That is a rather convenient and unsurprising cop out. LOL

My imagination is too damn good to listen to that. its pure horror. omg... bombing people is one, but this... picking up whatever they find to decapitate someone... thats horror. thats like some SAW level of grotesque ..

Like you make it sound as if it was the worst thing that happened in the history of human kind. Go look at what the Nazis or Japan did during WW II. And they weren't weak people who grew up in an open air prison.

Not like that hasn't ben happening to Palestinians for a 75 yeRs

@@xyzmediaandentertainment8313L

@@xyzmediaandentertainment8313 You’re clearly mentally challenged.

Is that in the second half?

I didn’t hear jubilation in that call. I just heard a family wanting their son to come home safely.

Yeah that was a weird take.

They don't have to praise them. Just no say anything about them. It is in the framing

they are likely off the radar of those who use "whom" wrongly... ffs.

@@memoryhero That was sure worth pointing out. Did you have anything resembling an actual argument of substance or just posturing? I'll fix the typo so that you can sleep tonight. iff u kan reed thiz u shud no dat poenting ouut tipos iz lemp dik week, moooron.

@@Alnivol666 False. Every single one has condemned the action. I think it may be more of indoctrination preventing some from hearing. It's quite common.

@@kropotkinbeard1 sweet!

I forgot my glasses. Might pointing out the elephant you mean since I've been told there are several?

@@hartyewh1 all forms of super natural make believe.

A foreign nation warping western media, military operations, and political outcomes in its favor as if these countries had no sovereignty at all. Israel is to America what America is to nearly everyone else.

@@MrBelmontcain The solution to the situation needn't consider religion at all. We can leave that for the historians, but a political solution consists of security and prosperity and the nutbags can be pushed aside with, admittedly, some serious effort.

​@MrBelmontcain how sure are you if the world would be better without religion?

I mean, why stop with the crusades? What about the muslim conquest of N. Africa, the Middle East and Southern Europe which preceded the crusades? Or the Roman Empire before that? Or the Greek and Persian Empires before that, and the kingdoms of Israel and Judah, or the Bronze Age tribal wars before that? Violent conflict is the human norm. liberal ideals of human rights are relatively new.

Exactly. Just think of Ukrainian Bucha and atrocities committed there by Russians.

Yah these 20 something year olds don’t remember growing up when multiple suicide bombings were a daily news story out of Israel. Israel is unfortunately a victim of its own success in that regard

this is the real elephant in the room.

The settlements were almost exclusively left wing liberals, many who were friends with Palestinians, who then killed and slaughtered them. Israel also doesn’t have a second amendment, at least for now. Regardless, there’s many important questions that need to be answered because the fact that the CIA and Mossad didn’t see them rehearsing this operation for two years seems hard to believe. Regardless, besides it being some of the most sickening evil I’ve ever seen, it’s put me into a state of depression and fear like I’ve never felt before. It’s not just the killing, it was the most sadistic and evil ways they killed innocent people.

Actually it starts at 0:52 guys

Don't skip the house keeping and introduction bro wtf

Housekeeping is the best part. Aside from the music lol

So you are pretending to be naive now?

That's silly, and Sam would tell you to your face not to be ashamed, and encourage you to ask for a subscription. That's why it's there.

I got one, it’s super easy and sam has an employee who gives them out daily to anyone who emails. No reason not to

Your ego is the only thing standing in your way of the subscription. I got the subscription when I was very poor, too. If you wouldn't judge someone for the dollars in their account, don't judge yourself like that. Let it go. Just get that damn thing! Right now! Go!

He was talking about the West Bank settlements, not Gaza.

Remember what happened when Sam tried to debate Noam Chomsky? Nothing much has changed. He still thinks that Israel has nothing but good intentions, and collateral damage is just an unfortunate consequence of any war blah blah blah.

The quintessential self-hating Jew

Norm: "Here is indisputable evidence illustrating every way you are wrong about Palestine." Sam: "hmm"

I was skeptical of his comment, too - the idea that defense was an either/or proposition- either defend the border with Gaza OR assist religious settlers in their annexation efforts in the West Bank. I’m pretty sure the IDF is large enough to handle both tasks.

No, he ignores those statements and blames everything on Islamic Jihadist. He is very biased against Palestinian people and is quick to support apartheid state.

Blokes been here the whole time you trump voting dead shut, from australia

Dim wit monkey brain

Who would you suggest?

What's the point? Their arguments are weak. Go watch what happened when Coleman Hughes did that.

I did. Coleman kept repeating elementary level arguments you find on Twitter ''mOrAl eQuiValeNcy'' and the scholar kept digging deeper with facts and history that Coleman has never read in his life. It was embarrassing to watch for anyone who has followed this conflict longer than a month. @@mrpopo8298

Jewish scholars, Ilan Pappe and Norman Finkelstein are good starting points.@@ED-TwoZeroNine

@@mrpopo8298 Both Coleman Hughes and Sam Harris are historically-illiterate.

Yeah what sam harris is capable of

No what Islamic extremists are capable of

Motherload

@@sg23148 'Motherload' is Americanised gibberish... 'mother' is more relevant and succinct.

@@commonwunder But has a totally different meaning

@Agtsmirnoff 'Motherload' isn't even a word. It's motherlode.

@@commonwunderNo " mother" here makes little sense as it suggests islam is the only source of bad ideas. Mother lode; however, suggests it's a principal vein of bad ideas.

They are religious extremists and bloodthirsty fascists on both sides.

Big difference is that the US soldiers DID have to go through the courts and the public DID become aware of exactly what happened and rallied against the war because of it. Palestinians WANTED it to happen and handed out candy afterwards, spitting on the corpses of raped women…and they still support it in huge numbers. The Palestinian public isn’t going to rally against a war their elected military started, because they agree with it and support it. Your analogy is ridiculous

Replace unacceptable for unforgivable

I think he is a little desensitized covering ISIS and Jihad all these years. This sort of violence is kind of familiar to him. But he said the videos were horrific in that these people were just living every day life and suddenly murdered were more disturbing than the staged highly planned video from ISIS.

​@@alQarafiIt may as well be demonic because jihadists do not 1. Operate by reason 2. Have empathy 3. Understand even their own actions 4. Care about humanity. All they care about, literally, is slavery slavery and murder

​@@alQarafiand not just slavery but sex slavery. That is what jihad is

NO Israel has the moral high ground. Your argument is sophistry a new version of the Dresden defense. Hamas targets civilians and the IDF wages a war with the exact loss of life such a war would produce in an urban setting. This is the sophistry of conflation.

"Proportianality" is just like ceasefire aka Israel is not allowed to fight back effectively. The allies did not defeat Hitler by only striking back proportionately.

@@joelanderson5285 the notion of a fair fight - is nonsense, as is proportionality. Someone attacks you - you do what you have to, so you stop getting attacked.

Why are one people occupied in the 1st place. Pushing this narrative makes it seem like it is the weak against the strong without showing why the weak are weak and the strong are strong. Israel has thought wars for its existence. Arabs have not. The whole situation is Arab envy.

This is how propaganda works, it takes bits of truth and creats its own myths. If you want to know how occupation look like you can study the actions of Nazi-Germany, Soviet Union or what Russia is doing in Ukraine now. This might help to discern what is occupation and what not.

​@@valentinann7823 The main point I want to make is that if a terrorist group, armed with just a few guns, crosses the border of a state known for its formidable military power, enters its territory, commits atrocities for hours without facing any resistance, why shouldn't we conclude that 'omission amounts to action'? It is evident that these atrocities were intentionally allowed to happen. Netanyahu is cunning

International Court of Justice has no authority. They can't declare anything.

Well put.

What’s his motive? This attack will surely destroy his legacy entirely.

@@Mwasser People keep saying Net future is over. I always thought politicians that were in trouble started wars to detract from their screw ups and force the electorate to rally around ones leadership in times of trouble.

There should be an early release on patreon but full length at some point here

You used to be able to get a subscription for free if you emailed them, not sure how it is now.

​@@OriginalMindTricktoo many people abused it as it's no longer an option. Can't blame him

@@paulfromt.o.7384 Yeah you gotta make money to support yourself.

Nobody owes you free anything

It is concerned with religion. Much of the hatred of Jews and general anti-Israel propaganda is promulgated by religious teachers in mosques and on children's programming. Can you imagine if instead of Disney cartoons, children in the states were brought up watching programs that glorified the killing of America's enemies?

Well said, I’d add to this by saying what is Israel to do when radicals want you eradicated. I would ask this: if Hamas were to surrender, would this stop?

@@ZINGERS-gt6pc They can either answer in kind as they are doing now and it's mostly justified or they can try to bring the conflict to an end by winning over the palestinian majority that cannot be compared to ISIS like Hamas and similar organizations. The history, trauma, age and education puts the palestinian people at a major disadvantage in being a proactive part of the solution while their "leaders" wish for the opposite so Israel needs to find ways to make peace with them directly. Planning for and explaining in detail a safe and prosperous future and how to achieve is a big part of it.

​@ZINGERS-gt6pc so Israel is not eradicating Palestine????

​@@fabioq6916nope because they're would have done ages ago, but they settled with borders