The Joola Ben John’s Hyperion CFS vs The CRBN 1 16mm - Real Surface Tests for Pickleball Paddles

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The Joola Ben John’s Hyperion Paddle vs The CRBN 1 16mm. In this review, we pull out the Starrett SR160 and do some real surface testing on both of these paddles to see if they are within USA Pickleball’s legal limits of roughness.
If you liked this video, make sure you’re watching the same Starrett testing on the “BANNED” CRBN 1
• Banned CRBN Pickleball...
Just a reminder, the legal limits of roughness on a paddle are 30.00 micrometers or less Rz and 40.00 micrometers or less Rt.
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DISCLAIMER
I am just a guy on the internet who loves Pickleball and wants the best for it. My results are just that… mine. I am not an ambassador or in any way affiliated with any paddle manufacturer or USA Pickleball. Take it with a grain of salt. I try my best to be as accurate and as transparent as I can.
Love you all and I appreciate your support!

Опубликовано:

18 июл 2022

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Комментарии : 64

@billkennedy401 2 года назад

USAPA needs to be far more transparent with their testing procedures

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

Indeed they do! Thanks for watching. I’ll be testing others soon. I’ve got the Diadem Warrior Edge on deck next.

@billkennedy401 2 года назад

@@pbjpickleball it may be a bit off the beaten path but I'd love to see one of the Gruvn paddles tested

@rsnatchell9685 2 года назад

@@pbjpickleball Need that Edge results like yesterday..

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

@@rsnatchell9685 it’s coming

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

@@billkennedy401 yeah I’ve been interested in getting my hands on one.

@thepickleballmafia1165 2 года назад

Been waiting for this video! Thanks for the pickleball vid!

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

You’re welcome :) Stay tuned… Diadem Edge is next!

@PickleballWill 2 года назад

yes thank you 🙌 please do warrior edge

@guittadabe5214 2 года назад

Your channel is definitely worthy of a subscription! Thank you!

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

I appreciate it!

@thedylan3387 2 года назад

Very well done. Numbers don’t lie!

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

Exactly! It’s about fairness and communication.

@quidproquo9000 2 года назад

That SR160 is one serious piece of kit! Thank you for your sacrifice! Now do other paddles!

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

You’re welcome! What paddles are you interested in?

@quidproquo9000 2 года назад

@@pbjpickleball Joola Vision CGS 16, Solare, Radius, Its supposed to be the same face, but doesn't get as much spin. Does the Spec need to be sampled in the center or close to the edge? Do the numbers change if you measure off center in multiple locations? or are you just measuring them in the center? The extra grit might be negligible if the face isnt consistent over the entire sweet spot.

@wizard8254 Год назад

@@pbjpickleball the new selkirk VANGUARD Power Air Invikta Paddle

@pbjpickleball Год назад

@@wizard8254 I did do that one recently. Take a look…. I like that paddle!

@LeeSideSailing 2 года назад

Nice editing.

@petetrefonas4962 2 года назад

Can you please do multiple measurements, repeat on different days and paddle sides, and report the data spreadsheet? I am interested in the standard deviation of the tests about the mean, and also statistical testing of whether any of the comparison results between the two paddles are outside of the 3 sigma error (ie, a 95% probability that they differ)? My guess is that both paddles are identical within statistical error of measurement (3 sigma). Does roughness vary with paddle being clean, or with debris on the paddle surface?

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

I’ll keep this in mind after the next video release. I’ll definitely have to check on the debris element. I am sure it would factor. Both paddles were basically brand new. The only one that wasn’t was the banned CRBN. I took readings on the Diadem Warrior Edge as well fresh from the wrapper.

@kangmingwong1485 2 года назад

I am curious about what the USAPA has to say about this.

@brianbanks3044 Год назад

i think pickle ball studio had a video on spin rates on a lot of different paddles....the highest was a bit below 1700 rpm and the lowest had 1100 or so.....all based on humans hitting the ball and they allowed for some human error.....surprisingly, the roughest surfaces didn't necessarily produce the higher spin rates so there has to be a few more variables than surface roughness

@kwikstah Год назад

I would imagine paddle weight and distribution would also matter since that can effect your swing speed.

@Scotty_pickleball 2 года назад

There is also I believe a 5-10% ( unsure which is true) tolerance built into the testing, which makes them passing.. That is not spelled out in the rules, but I have heard that a few times at a few tourneys from people involved with testing process. They account for paddle variance.

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

I agree. I’m going to run all of these again at some point. I can definitely see from the numbers that there is a grain to these surfaces. If one was to choose to capture more tests in those directions, it would make a “passing grade” much easier to accomplish. I may have to make a video about that at some point.

@stevenrs11 2 года назад

Really, to account for machine variance you need stay 5% *beneath* the maximum to ensure you don't go over

@terraXR 2 года назад

interesting comment. I'm an engineer who has designed a few optical measurement/gaging systems. I doubt that 5-10% value is based on paddle variance. That's because USA Pickleball has absolutely no idea what each manufacturer's "print tolerance" is (how identical each paddle is made). It could vary a lot from supplier to supplier. My guess is that's based more on the SR160's published "accuracy" spec ... I believe it's 5% of reading + 0.1 um (um is a micron or micrometer).

@cwarner5909 Год назад

I hear that CRBN uses the Toray’s T700 carbon fiber and that many other paddle makers use the same skin. It seems like if the paddle makers are using the same skin they would all have the same issues. I'm curious as to what the tolerances are of the T700 Carbon fiber sheets are coming from the supplier.

@pbjpickleball Год назад

I’m sure they aren’t all the same skin. I’ve seen too many and felt too many differences from one to the next. Now I wouldn’t be surprised if these are all coming out of one or two of the same manufacturing plants, but built to the brands specs requests. They are all pushing or exceeding limitations set by the rulebook.

@quidproquo9000 2 года назад

Can you put together a Google sheet of the ones you have tested? also you should so a video on what the RT and RZ means, I don't think the USAPA description is entirely accurate

@quidproquo9000 2 года назад

RT is total between the highest, and RZ is the mean taken over 5 spots. Also, you should try to figure out how the USAPA is measuring these to make a fair comparison.

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

I guarantee they are just using their Starrett on the same. Did you ever see the USAPA official that was asked after a tournament to test his Joola paddle with the Official’s Starrett SR160 that he was carrying around? He said if he would his paddle would fail. They didn’t know they were being filmed. This led to me to find out for myself.

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

Regarding your spreadsheet ask, I am absolutely compiling data, and as I grow as a channel, I’ll provide ways to access it. However, I need a heck of a lot more data before I would doing so.

@solohour 2 года назад

I’ve heard that you can do a test, lift the device up and put it back down on the surface and get different results. The same is true for drumheads, which I have a lot more experience with. Can you try that in one of your videos and see if it affects the numbers?

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

I have no doubt the numbers would be different. You’d have to place it in the exact place, down to the nanometer.

@solohour 2 года назад

@@pbjpickleball I just mean instead of sliding the device, I'd be interested to see what the results look like if you lifted the device up between measurements. See how the numbers differ. (if they do)

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

@@solohour It might look like that, but I assure you, I am picking up the device as I turn it. I don’t want to damage the needle on the underside.

@solohour 2 года назад

@@pbjpickleball Oh, ok. Hard to tell from the timelapse. Either way, thanks for doing it. I literally just took delivery of my CRBN 1 16mm so I was curious!

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

@@solohour you’re going to love that paddle.

@brianbanks3044 Год назад

make them like ping pong paddles...some use sandpaper, some use sponge, some use rubber with dots.....it all creates different spins but it is the user who makes the paddle work....do they have a max spin rate for tennis rackets????.....i know you can make strings tighter but the player still has to perform with it.....a ball can only go so fast and spin so high...

@pbjpickleball Год назад

If that was the case, the balls would get chewed up after a couple games. There needs to be limitations.

@j.steveloader1448 2 года назад

The CRBN paddle shows a serial number at the start of the video but the paddle during testing has no serial number.

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

And that was my bad. The serial is only on one side of the paddle and I didn’t have it on that side showing. I assure you it was the same. I have two approved CRBN1s (one black and one with white lettering), then a banned version 13mm.

@coachfezz1137 2 года назад

Ben Joola saw to it that CRBN was banned

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

It’s an interesting take, but unless someone fesses up to the debacle, we’ll never know. All I’m doing is uncovering the data on the paddles so hopefully we can come to our own conclusions.

@robsutton3092 2 года назад

The Starret SR160 is around $2,400. Since you’ve got one, go for it and examine all the paddles you can get your hands on. Make a video on each one. I think many of us would like to know exactly what these measurements are before we spend money on a paddle.

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

Working on it! Any paddles in particular? I’m really interested in the upcoming Selkirk paddles that look to have a raw carbon surface.

@robsutton3092 2 года назад

@@pbjpickleball Definitely look at the new Gearbox paddles. Really, all the top paddles the pros use. I enjoy watching professional matches, and I’m curious about their paddles. I’ll try to get you a list.

@robsutton3092 2 года назад

@@pbjpickleball Here’s a list of some popular paddles that claim to have good spin. I’m sure there are plenty I’m leaving off. Electrum Model E Selkirk Vanguard Invikta Selkirk Labs models Selkirk Epic Amped Engage Pursuit MX 6.0 Gearbox CX 11 Gearbox GX 6 Paddletek Tempest Wave Pro Gamma Riley Newman Signature Pro Kennex Pro Soeed II Hybrid Head Gravity Vulcan V560 Onix Evoke Premier Prince Response Pro Niupipo Explorer (that’s what I play with 😀)

@davidige276 2 года назад

I don't really care that they failed the test. What does bother me is that Joola may had some influence in getting CRBN banned. I like that CRBN now has the option of selling you a conforming and non-conforming paddle. I bought a rougher one, like it better and don't play tournaments. I have an Electrum Pro and after 6 months the sweet spot area became smoother than the bottom of the paddle. I'd like to see surface testing of a well worn paddle in the sweet spot and at the bottom where the ball doesn't hit.

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

Check out my video of the banned CRBN 1 surface test. I run the numbers at the top middle and bottom. This was a used paddle obviously, but it gives you an idea.

@godgunsandgoldens Год назад

All paddles will lose significant amount of spin capability after a few months of heavy use.

@csgofordummies1239 Год назад

@@godgunsandgoldens How do you get that back, buy a new paddle? I keep hearing this but sort of confused, in Tennis you just get new strings, you dont need as a rec player to buy a brand new tennis racket every 6-12 months... so if lets say youre pretty good at PB but not a pro, and you need to use a "high quality paddle" thats lets say $100-120 absolute minimum youd need to buy a new one every 6-12 months to stay away from "significant spin capability" loss??

@blessonvarghese8213 2 года назад

Haha you are stirring the pot and putting Usapa on notice. Simple unbiased testing it looks likes . Transparency is key otherwise all trust and respect etc will be lost . Can you do the same test on a few other carbon textured paddles . Thanks .

@jansenpogi 2 года назад

Send me a sample and will find out and tell my fiends about it! 👍

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

Wait, what are we sampling exactly?

@thomasrutledge587 2 года назад

Spin is playing a greater and greater part of recreational Pickleball too so it is important to know a paddles test results. I play tournaments and want a level playing field. Recreationally it’s a bit less important to me but I have played against “homemade” paddles that were like sandpaper. I pointed out to the paddle owner that his paddle was illegal. He simple said so what I don’t play tournaments. Ok, so we can use a corked baseball bat too and you’re still cheating.

@pbjpickleball 2 года назад

Exactly! I want to bring clarity to the community on what we are all buying. Thanks for watching!

@davidige276 2 года назад

I like to use sidespin and often the spin comes back to me and fools me, causing an error. I welcome the spin coming back and want to learn from it. My spin away from their backhand will sometimes come back as spin away from my forehand.