I agree. 964 front looks a bit better but 993 rear is just perfection. Best option would be to own them both. But these days that's only the option for rich people. LOL.
Brilliant video, thanks for sharing your experience. In my opinion (having owned a 964 C4, a 964 C2 and a 993 C2) I also prefer the 993 - it has sharper steering, better handling at the limit, more power and is all around a more complete sports car. I also prefer the looks, but that's subjective. 964 is a great car, but the 993 is sublime - it talks to you in ways that a 964 cannot.
I’ve had both. With both aging into classic status, I’ve ended up preferring the 964. The interior is pure old school, prettier, and the profile is unique to the 911. If you want the classic, almost vintage feel in a Porsche that is absolutely usable today, the 964 does this very enjoyably. My 993 was a great car, but maybe a tad “too modern”. Can’t go wrong either way.
Stop blaming the four-wheel drive. It's barely distinguishableand it's not full-time active, and would not affect the overall ride in the way you describe. The 993 is simply superior. And a 993 4 is far better than 964 2 as well!
The 964’s AWD system is mechanical and fixed at a 69/31 split. Even if the electronics fail they stay locked. It’s closer the 4WD than AWD. The 993’s AWD is something like 5% to the front in normal conditions.
>I owned a very nice 3.2 (1986) and enjoyed it's look and rawness feel but once a drove a 993 that was it! The 993 is so much better in most all ways, I was stunned! It's even starting to (does!) look better! In fact, I couldn't imagine a better 911 than the 993. I now own a very nice (1996) 993 with low mileage and covet it like I never thought possible. With all due respect to all the other lovely 911's.
I chose the 993 when I was shopping. Love the looks of both, but the 993 felt way more planted. Ended up with a 993 c4s and couldnt be happier. Still want a 964, but wouldn't sell mine for a 964. Love the widebody rear and personally think its the best rear end of any porsche to date. When it comes to speed and rawness I got a GT3 for that. Both cars compliment each other since they are completely different. Great review and I laughed cause you struggled so hard to not pick the 993. Cheers!
A rare Gem of a video, so thanks for making it. Felt like I was there with you on those greasy country lanes !! Love the 993 in particular, but they are both lovely classics. My brother owned a 964 2wd back in the day, and it was a blast to drive. These days i could not afford such a car, but am more than happy with my `06 Cayman S, which goes like a dream, and sounds more 993 like with its Capristi exhaust system in ``Quiet `` mode !!
makes you sick in the stomach to think of getting a 964 for as little as 10k. Im in no doubt sure that the singer effect has played a huge hand in these prices sky rocketing.
I am a proud owner of a 1991 964 C4, bought in 2011.Over the years I spent quite a lot of money to get it right.Biggest improvement : different springs, Bilstein B6 shocks,and a correct alignment. Makes it a different car.273.000 km. And still going strong. Looking forward to the summer vacation in the Alpes.Never considered buying a 993, it might be the better car,but i prefer the looks of the 964.
dont ever buy a 993, you would be dissapointed, the 964 is still a mans car while rthe 993 is washed up, softened up car for everyone, they made a car for everyone
I’ve said it before and I’m saying it again: this channel seems like it has been designed just for me. Love your content! This particular 993 seems to be a US spec model, hence the bigger ride height.
Nice video, and very informative. These cars are sure getting popular, and for good reason. The newer models are much more evolved, but the 964, and 993 give the best of the air cooled 911 experience. Again, the video was informative, and enjoyable. Keep them coming. Have a great 2018.
I've a 1996 Iris Blue 993 C2, 6 speed manny tranny. Got it off my doctor. She was 10 yrs old with 20,000 miles. I've had her for 14 years, essentially trouble free, now with 63,000. A head turner even when she's parked. That exhaust note in 2nd gear at 4000 rpm is delicious.
I love my 964. I looked long and hard at a number of car makes and models before I decided on a 964. I bought mine back in 2010 when nobody really cared about these cars. I wanted a 911 because... I’ve always wanted one. I looked at 993’s, but decided that I did not want to deal with trying to find competent shops to align the rear suspension. I wanted more classic 911 handling vs modern handling in a 911 body. I studied the transmission gearing in both cars and decided that 993’s have gearing that is pretty long for US roads where the speed limits are typically ~60 to 70mph - the 993 is geared for the higher speeds of the autobahn, in my opinion, whereas the 964 had a tighter set of ratios more appropriate for twisty back roads. I liked that 964’s retain the more classic 911 shape, vs the one-generation shape of the 993 (although the 993 is certainly a pretty car). I preferred the 964 bumpers over the accordion bumpers on ‘80’s 911’s.I wanted an air-cooled 911. I wanted fuel injection. I wanted coil spring suspension, not torsion bars.In the end, the 964 was really the only choice for me, and I have loved it from the first test drive. It has a lot of character and great build quality. It’s small and maneuverable, and is fast enough to be fun, yet slow enough to need to be driven with commitment (also fun). It sounds fantastic. It looks fantastic.It’s an awesome ride. 964 - Accept No Substitute.
Motorsport Addict roughly when I bought mine too! By the way, early 993’s at least in the Uk do not have the longer 6th gear, it is the same as 5th in the 964, making it in fact a closer ratio box which really helps wake up the engine. It’s only the later cars that had the overdrive 6th for emissions purposes
Another great review! Man, these cars are begging to be lowered for the sake of looks and performance. I love my 993 but also have much love for 964 and older Porsches. I'm glad you got to drive this 993 with the varioram intake because it truly does give you a nice boost in low end torque. Not to mention the sound past 5,300rpm!!
I've been waiting for you to upload a video Jack and it was worth the wait! Great to watch a video with my favourite cars. Great job and keep up the good work in 2018 🖒
This was my car up for sale with Phil Raby whom is a Porsche Guru and a great guy to do business with. All the old anecdotes as expected but I had this car rebuilt and it has 270bhp,Bilstein B6 shocks,stiffer springs ,Powerflex bushes, 21mm rear anti roll bar and different alignment. This eliminated the understeer and improved turn in dramatically. I maintained the standard ride height because of originality and frequent trips to Scotland in the winter with snow when the ability of the C4 is quite amazing. So I think that you pre judged the car on the usual bar stool C4 gossip. I have also owned a C2 a new one back in 1992 so know the difference. Agree with you on the 993 but for me the classic looks and raw feel of the 964 are preferable. As a matter of interest the car was sold to a guy who sent it to Singer for conversion.
Excellent video. I think they're both pinnacles of the 911 series, in just different way. 964 is the best old school car and 993 just perfected the air cooled era. 993 looks better there's no doubt about that, 993 is among the best looking cars ever made. But there is certain charm in 964 old school look too. If I were rich, I'd own them both. Too bad the prices are going out of reach and it got much worse after this video was made. I've seen good examples going for way over 100K now. Cheers.
+1. .. Nice comparison review of two Porsche classic's; 964 C4 and the 993 C2. .. Before ordering the MY98 C2S coupe (continue to own) a full day was spent driving a MY96 993 C4 3.6 w/variocam. .. The 993 C4 variety of a C4 chassis truly softened the 911's handling character for my tastes. .. So in May of '97 the plunge was taken ordering a fully optioned/spec., 1998 C2S widebody. .. Cheers, M/S
Great vid. Makes sense the 993 drives better. I guess they improved on the 964 model and changed what they needed to in order to make it more driver friendly.
Interesting.. I've got a 993, and have only driven 2 964s.. i agree.. trying to keep bias out of it... the 993 does something very sweet that the 964 doesnt, and yet remains eminantly aircooled visceral for all that. Good summary. They're both valid.
Nice vid. I've got to say I'm a fan. Been watching Harry's garage for a while, and your vids are the ones I go to next. Now please can you do a review for me on the tvr t350? Keep up the good work 👍
Good video! Would be good to see how 964’s and 993’s compare in both c2 and c4 guises. Plus 964 was so compromised in standard trim with that ride height and overly soft suspension!
I’ve had a 964 c2 and driven the c4 and I have to say there is a big difference which any decent enthusiast will notice, not so with the 993 c2 and c4 which I’ve also driven. The main reason is that the 964 c4 splits 40/60 f/r whereas the 993 is 5/95 and that is a big difference in the feel of the car under normal traction conditions. Other than that the 993 is a better car but a 964 with some upgrades can be loads of fun to drive also because it’s trickier... and the headlights are still pure 911 I still think the full Bug tunnel look (up to 964) is the most iconic and unique front, the rear is sexier on the 993
This video was made 5 yrs ago and both of these cars have gotten significantly more expensive and even more challenging to find good specimens for sale.. Would love to see the iconic headlights of the 964 on the 993
Have 3 myself 90 964 C2 coilovers 96 C4S 44k Miles 95 C2 thats on BaT right now My fave is the 964 because of how rare of a color combo I have. Dark blue w/ mahogany interior. Drives amazing and sounds awesome with the cat bypass
Number27 assuming you mean 993 but yeah it drives amazingly. Mine came with the special chassis option so it’s a bit lower. It’s very refined. Glued to the road and steering is very responsive. And being a C4S it has the Brembo turbo brakes which are the best!
Nice video! If you are really going to compare them, the problem is you essentially need the cars to have the same exactly the spec (2 vs awd, narrow body,, etc) and mileage/wear/use patterns which is very difficult. The axles and front differential on the C4 really load up the feel of the front end of the 964 you tested which can explain the heaviness you felt. It feel the same on the 993 C4 too. The A-arms and front suspension on both cars are the same with some minor improvements to the 993. Shock wear make a huge difference in feel, as well as ride height, alignment, wheels and tires. I have driven several 993's and 964's (given I service them) and often there are significant differences even in the same model year between different cars. Sometimes even a higher mileage example may feel better than a low mileage garage queen. My personal favourite is the 993TT (which I own) just because it's taking that 993 driving experience and adding 120HP, tons of torque and great gearing. Total blast :-)
Totally agree with what you say.. can be a huge difference between the 'same' cars. Having said that I think that my conclusions are fairly valid here.. have driven lots of other C4's and 993's.. C4's always feel a little less lively, even when properly set up. But a 964 C2 Vs 993 C3 test would have been great!
I've owned both went back to a 964 purely cause of looks and a more involved drive... 964's with a little tinkering of suspension, exhaust etc. give a more 'driver-focused' feel / better sound with all the classic looks - in my opinion of course. but good vid :) that 964 would of looked a million times better on bigger wheels / different ride height ;p
Haven driven both. Difference for me is ride Quality. Stock. Personal Taste: 3.2 and 964 get my vote. But for the price range of a 993 i would get 996 GT3....
yes, the 964 still gives you that great view with the gently curving in wings.. but lordy lordy the prices! I had 4 3.2 carreras in the naughties and never paid more than 12k - I used to put 6-10000 miles on them and sell them before they needed big expense - which they all did with top end rebuilds (3k) welding (never less than 5k) - even an exhaust was 2k with the heat exchangers.. I now have a Cayman which are a complete bargain for the time being - and am aiming NOT not sell it this time!
I love the air cooled cars but pricing just ridiculous at the moment. I had choice of a guards red SC 1981 that was well sorted windows out respray not a show car but darn close 915 gearbox of course 180 or so hp. Tan interior 44k dollars ( not pounds) or I could go perfect 40k mike 997 S 2005 model guards red great history 355 horsepower garage kept not a scratch both cars manual. The 2005 7000 cheaper!!! I know the air cooled cars are probably better investment but I bought the 997. The difference in money I’m dropping ride height doing coil overs stainless exhaust Gt3 front valence rear wing. With a little more doing gt3 or aftermarket wheels and roll bar for track says. I own a Shelby GT 350 now but wanted a 911. May be not as purist or whatever but that 997 drove, shifted and stopped like a new car. It was way more fun than the new pdk 991. I drive the paddidles out of my cars that’s why they were built imo. May be mistake but I truly like 997=s
The air cooled Porsches are collectables. Liqued-cooled -- NOT. It was clear even in 80s, when 928, 924, 944 so advanced as they were, lost their price very fast and now they are cheap as hell. So is the future of water cooled 911 -- they will be never as collected and priced as the classic air cooled 911.
Jiany Star Massa vich nah, the 993 is a great car but, it just has not the carisma of the 964, the gearbox justisnt porsche anymore, more like a golf, the clutch too soft, whilst the 964 was still a mans car the 993 became everyones car
@@karlanal1 hey bud. I got both. If you like the rough drive then yeah 964, but if you like a true in between new and old 993 is the best option. In any case 993 being my first pick and 964 being second both are truly legends. Once you own one you'll never want to sell it
Jiany Star Massa vich i had them both, i had few 993 and two 964,, i didnt mourn after selling any 993 and i dont really miss them, well i do miss the 993 gr2 tuned up by roock, but i miss the 964 more, especially the rs, if i now could choose any porsche it would be the 964 turbo s like a friend of mine had, arround 450-500hp, for me the car of my dreams
The Porche world is a unique environment and is not a reflection of the taste or enthusiasm of other car collectors. I prefer the Jaguars and Aston Martins.
well if you were around when they came about, then you'd have been around when prices plummeted seeing as they were bog low in the late 90's up until the late 2000's... you won't be around when they plummet (again) because they never will again as they did back then. missed the train, mate- maybe you can get a 996 of some sort.
Prices on these models will never go down now. The 993 is the most perfect Porsche, I’ve owned modern Porsche’s, but you just can’t beat the sound of the air cooled 3.6 engine, or the driving experience, they are special cars and values reflect that, even at today’s prices, I think the 993 is good value. My 993 is my 5th Porsche but the first I’ve owned that I know I’ll never part with. I swapped a 718T for it and have never looked back
it was quite a mild day so not that heavily salted.. but I'm sure he would have washed them after. Cars do have to be used... as long as they are looked after
Thanks Buddy.. unfortunately as I do this as a hobby I kind of have to make do with what I can find at the time. Yes, C2 Vs C2 would have been much better but by the time Phil had a 964 C2 in stock the 993 may have been sold.. and trying to arrange with a third party to come at a time that works for everyone is tricky. I know the premise is a little flawed! Thanks for watching!
Porsche 911 S 2.4 S /1972 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2 / G50 1988 and the Porsche 964 Carrera 2 are the best looking 911’s and also in performance after that it went downhill the new 911’s are disgusting 🙈 / best looking Porsche in the last 10 years is the Porsche Cayman 987 Gen1 😉
Thanks in 1986 i bought a 911 S 2.4 1972 Targa 190 hp in Germany at DM 15000 / € 7500 drove it 4 years prices are now sky high over € 100.000 in normal condition it was a joy to drive this one 1030 kg and 190 hp der erste mit mechanische Bosch Einspritzung System / love your Videos 👍
Negative dude, that 993 is boss, so dont be choosy and be a fair blogger. The 993 is way sexier and tougher looking with its stance alone so dont get lost in your personal emotions guy.
