@@squelchedotter or going the french way and banning inland airtravel. i mean, if you are not travel to an island, do you really need to be flying within a european contry?
@@enisra_bowman Banning domestic air travel would make the trains even more expensive as it would create a near monopoly. Trains need to be much, much cheaper.
@@squelchedotter Yet again the tax payer has to pay for everything. did you not know the railway fares are also subsidised by the taxpayers who never travel by train.
It's about time someone recognised that British trains are massively too expensive. I once did a comparison of a UK train with one I caught in Berlin and the UK train cost 6x the price. Let's hope it succeeds and forces other train companies to reduce their prices.
Not only are the train tickets in the UK ridiculously expensive, but there are people paying massively different prices for the same journey. One person might be paying £15 and the person in the next seat £120. So I always drive. Driving is far cheaper and you can leave when you like and travel door to door.
A few years ago I paid for a family of 4 to travel from Amsterdam Schipol to Hanover for 99 Euros. The price difference was ridiculous to the average UK train.
As a German I would like to add that Germany's regional and long distance passenger trains are usually heavily subsidised. Is it the same with UK's passenger railways?
@@ABC_DEF while you're not wrong, if we want to reduce carbon emissions train travel should be made far more accessible and competitive to driving or flying, it being one of the least carbon emitting forms of transport per person.
@@John1986ATR You actually beat an electric train in co2 emissions with both electric busses and cars (4 passengers). The problem with trains is, they drive on schedule regardless of passenger demand. So every unused seat worsens the co2 efficiency. Their current pricing model is actively working against filling every last seat, by making the tickets more expensive the closer the travel date, regardless of capacity. Trains are expensive because not enough people are using it, but people won't be using it, if their travel costs are significantly higher than just driving with a car.
I really really hope this company succeeds and expands their services. Train travel should be affordable and the east coast mainline is a gorgeous route
@@MrDanielfff777 how so? It's cheaper than every other ripoff train service but it's the price it should be for every train service considering UK is a small country so a couple hundred miles on a train shouldn't cost £100 with return Considering I've paid more for a 51mile journey..
Although I believe that train travel should be 'affordable', what does that actually mean? Should transport companies be allowed to make profits? Should it be Government run? As an aside, the public transport for Sydney in Australia actually turns a profit, even though it's pretty damned cheap... this means that public transport can be affordable and profitable if there is sufficient service and sufficient users to make it profitable in aggregate. This won't work for low volume passenger routes or transport services, if there isn't enough money coming in to make it profitable... that's when punitive taxes and congestion or 'clean air' zones are also introduced, to try to collect revenue that otherwise would be unjustified or excessive, but can be explained away by unreasonable charge zones and onerous taxation elsewhere...
I'm a regular Chris Moyles listener so I primarily know you, Chelsea, as James's "housemate". Seeing you pop up in a Geoff video was a big surprise! And with some very useful info too.
The sad thing is that it's actually an incredibly simple idea that's been around for a long time. Give people an affordable price for a train journey, and it often speaks for itself.
@@trojjer Honestly for a under 5 hours journey their one class makes sense. These seats look great and the supposed first class experience doesn't really make a difference when travel time is less than 5 hours
Wow Lumo is just amazing I'm surprised that their journey is so much cheaper than LNER. The train itself is probably the best Hitachi train to the run in the UK unlike LNER, GWR, TPE and Hull Trains where their trains have uncomfortable seats and terrible ride quality this one has much more comfortable seats
The seats are definitely more comfortable, I understand Avanti have chosen the same design for their Hitachi trains. The ride also does seem to be better, perhaps the lack of diesel gensets adding weight?
For those of us chemistry folks, LUMO is an acronym for "Lowest Unoccupied Molecular Orbital". So, I suppose it makes sense that transport does occur most effeciently via a low-lying available electronic state.
If they do have significant issues with luggage space, which seems to be a running concern, then it might be better to convert some of those non-window seats to luggage racks.
fares are based on revenue /seats per mile. basic way of thinking of this 100 seats £1 pear seat per trip £100 TOTAL FOR THE TRIP. Remove the seats so the price needs to increase to make the £100. What Geoff did not mention( unless I missed it) Was that the layout was mostly airline style seating with very few tables so its an high density configuration.
They definitely do have a luggage problem as I have seen on the train and seen in this video and other videos with the luggage in bike storage, door ways and most dangerously on the luggage racks above people’s heads which can be dangerous for heavy luggage. What we have to remember is that this is to be the same as plane which means it’s going to take lots of big bags but Lumo just don’t seem to be ready for that.
Lumo executives: The logo just isn’t working Design team: What if we elevate the u Lumo executives: Madness! Design team: What if we elevate the m Lumo executives: You’re getting warmer
Hi Geoff. One issue I had when trying to have a greener holiday with my partner was bike storage on these longer distance trains. Often there are only 4 or so "racks" but they didnt actually only really fit smaller bikes or racing bikes. If you have a bike with slightly wider tyres, or handlebars they dont fit! also 4 spaces is not enough! We actually had to get a different service than our preferred because there wasnt bike space. Thats something else that could be done with those windowless seats!
I cannot wait to try them for myself, I live in Edinburgh and go down to London fairly frequently. I have often flown instead of taking the train as it's cheaper. A minimum of £100 return with LNER, most of the time, compared to around £60 return flights to Gatwick, or £90 to Heathrow or City. Looking forward to taking the greener way to London sometime soon!
I’m very glad they appear to be succeeding, 6months on. I regularly travel by train between Oxford and Newcastle, and I genuinely look out for the Lumo services over LNER between London and NCL. They’re typically faster, more comfortable and often a few quid cheaper
I’m an American. I’m so jealous! I’ve been to Germany, France and Spain. I love your trains to say the least. Here in America we have to drive EVERYWHERE or fly. I hate flying especially after 911. Trains (and quite a few other things) would make America great 😭
Thanks for mentioning the cheapest fare /after/ the introductory offer, Geoff - not noted on the other earlier reviews that I watched. Good video & review as ever. : )
I used Lumo this week and it's a good service. Helpful and friendly staff, comfortable seats. Could only get a cheap ticket on the return trip to kings X, but paid £19.50 each. 4.5hrs is long but, honestly, it's comfortable so you don't really notice if you remember to download some shows/movies/music.
Amusing that back in the day (under British Rail) we pushed hard for more rapid journeys (EDB-KGX under 4 hours at best, 3h29 for the one-off "special"), yet now we'll happily not mention the ~30 minute slowdown in exchange for a GOOD fare. It is, admittedly, also a plus that a train is likely to arrive on time or early given a slack schedule, for ongoing connections, etc. : )
Worth pointing out that: 1. LUMO have been given essentially the spare paths, hence the off-pattern timetable. These are full of pathing time, over 35 mins in some cases. 2. The LUMO times are planned to be tightened up when the ECML timetable is recast, but of course that's now been postponed. 3. The 1053 Sundays Edinburgh-London LUMO service is timetabled for 4 hours and 3 mins with 2 stops. That's only 3 mins slower than LNER's Flying Scotsman which has one fewer stop. If LUMO had decent paths they could very easily have faster journeys timetabled its just the nature of the ECML set-up at present, all being well within a few years (not an ideal timescale I appreciate) it should be resolved somewhat.
@@hexagon7895 I missed spotting that Sunday service, thank you: almost worth catching in its own right for rapidity! Looking forward to seeing how this develops over the next few years, even if being stuck north of ABD nowadays makes full appreciation somewhat more difficult!
@@dw620 No worries, I didn't notice it myself either - I had it pointed out. Sadly it ran 22 mins late on its first day, but that was very much out of LUMO's control. Now if in a couple of years they can get most/all services down to nearer the 4-hour mark I think they'll really be on to a winner and LNER will have to watch out! ;)
I’ve been waiting for this Geoff and I wasn’t disappointed! You nailed it (except the diesel slip!!!), packed with Lumo facts and features. I can’t wait to have a look round one. 👍
Competition on the ECML will hopefully drive up standards and keep fares competitive. The lack of stopping stations on the route is good as these slow journey times down.
Looking forward to when I get the chance to ride on these between Edinburgh and Newcastle, was great chatting with you Geoff hope to see you again soon From Kieron Adam 👍
I road the train from London to Edinburgh on 02 Nov 2021. Love the service. I have ridden the route before with other train operators so I know what to expect for the journey. The Lumo service met or exceeded expectations. I had never seen a Geoff recording before. Great style.
This is great. As a Londoner who went to University in Scotland, I travelled by plane and train, moreso by plane as it was literally cheaper and faster, though I felt bad about the green energy aspect of it, and the sub-hour flight time felt a little silly. I wish this service had come in sooner. It looks great.
Great idea to take on the airlines, especially in light of COP and recent budget madness! Definitely rather let the train take the strain than do that trip on a plane.
Those Politicians and Elitists who went to cop still went on their private jets, drove in there gas car Motorcades than went in a private jet home They're hypocrites and I personally don't listen to people who don't practice what they preach
hey Geoff! It was nice to see you on the Monday (white jumper at 1:02). Someone actually had a spare ticket for the train but I wasn't ready for a long trip out at all. Hope the journey was alright for you though! :)
The UK has got a good tie up with Hitachi one of the best in the business for its high speed trains being the maker of the famous bullet trains in Japan.
Good to see a rail company taking a competitive outlook, lets hope for more routes with cheap fares in the future! ECML avoiding York is a strange choice though..?
That is almost certainly a way of meeting the requirement for an open access operator to not be "primarily extractive" of the core franchises. The Morpeth stop is probably related to that too, and because of the infamous curve south of the station it doesn't add that much time to the journey either because trains already have to run slowly through Morpeth...
This is great. This could be the beginning of the end of extortionate train ticket prices. As the other firms will have no choice but to lower their prices. Hopefully they can eventually expand their network to plenty more locations 👍🏼
Thanks much for this introduction. I’ve now added it to my list and the Lumo app to my phone. This Yank can’t wait to get to the UK this Spring. I’ll take Lumo to New Castle and Hadrian’s Wall. Thanks Geoff
I travelled 120 miles from Warsaw to Kielce in Poland for.£13.45 a few years ago. That was a standard fare on their newest fastest trains. Rather than marvelling at how cheap the fares for a trip across the UK can be, we should be looking at how expensive travel in the UK is. I'm sure if fares were cheaper more people would travel across the UK which in turn would bring more business to other parts of the country
Looks like a nice service and solid pricing, the no-window seats are a great thing in my opinion, not for everyone but really nice to hide away on a cold day.
We need a service like this on the WCML that goes through Manchester. Then it can compete against flights to and from Manchester Airport. Also would allow services to Glasgow of course.
Pity they closed the Woodhead line and Sheffield Victoria instead of upgrading its electrification or acquiring locomotives that can do both DC and AC.
Such a great idea. For just £30 each way, I'd happily travel on this service between London and Edinburgh as an alternative to flying. Especially if the overhead storage space can fit a standard cabin sized bag. I'd also like to have the non-window seat to work on the laptop without glare. Hope this is successful, and they launch routes in the future.
I'd be fascinated to compare Lumo's prices with the average ticket prices for London to Edinburgh services in decades past. It's fantastic that they are offering such an affordable service; I've always found it ludicrous that train travel is often more expensive than FLYING, so good on Lumo for tackling that! But I would be curious to see how it compares to ticket prices for the same journey down the years, and whether the 'cheap, low-cost' option now was once upon a time just the standard price for train travel between the two cities. Excellent video, Geoff! and for the record, given how much I hate them on Pendolinos, NO to no-window seats! Give me a window and extra luggage space any day ^_^
I like the idea of being able to pre-order food. It eliminates the problem of turning up and finding out the buffet has run out of your preferred meal option.
I'll be keeping my eyes open for these trains on the East Coast Main Line from Now (although if I am on the viewing deck at the National Railway Museum at York I'll remember that I won't be able to see the Blue Train when they go North) Great Train as always, keep it up Geoff.👍🚋🚂
The ICE4 train in Germany also has some seats without windows, had the chance (?) of sitting in one of those seats last year from Mannheim up to Köln, and it was a great opportunity to work and read, but in reality it didn't make the biggest of differences because the high-speed line has lots of tunnels so the view out the window is compromised a lot.
Not only ICE 4: this is the case with ICE 3 and ICE T as well. (I am not sure about ICE 1 and 2.) And there are also seats that have a very small piece of window next to them, which isn't great either. When I reserve a seat, which I only do when I am travelling long distance with a suitcase, I always try to get one with a good view out of the window.
I once used LNER to go Edinburgh which was quite expensive, paid 50 quid. Hopefully next summer, I get to use this train with affordable price to visit beautiful city Edinburgh again!!
If , as mentioned , they are targeting air passengers then converting those seats into luggage space is pretty much essential . Although luggage space between Waverley and K-X is always an issue .
Hey Geoff, could you please consider making a video about all the terminus stations in London and what it might look like if through services were created to emulate the RER? Which stations would connect etc? I also loved the secrets of the underground series. Any more? Maybe even secrets of other metro systems in other cities? Cheers.
Finger cross for this to succeeded, this will be a breath of fresh air to cheaper rail travel and how much train tickets should cost. Fantastic Lumo 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
It reminds me of the Wrexham and Shropshire service to London. Sadly a certain rail company that begins with V made it difficult to operate. It was very handy when I worked in London. I could get on the train at Telford Central at 6:17am and get a couple more hours of kip. There was a lovely café opposite Marylebone that I used to have a nice Friday lunch before heading back to the Shire.
Virgin couldnt have cared less about W&S, it was the DaFT who insisted Virgin complained, but I guess its just easier to blame the TOCs for everything isnt it!
Why do these trains not have a checked luggage facility? Queensland Rail have checked luggage options and its all placed in the crew car or baggage car on most trains or in a closed off on train luggage areas on tilt trains. given alot of Queensland Rail trains are overnight services its very useful to have your luggage securely stored while sleeping.
What a brilliant concept. The only slight flaw for me is that i'd first have to travel into London to catch it, so sadly driving from Essex remains the budget option for the moment. But yeah - otherwise fully onboard with this.
It looks posh, luxurious in a way, and futuristic. Awesome. High speed railway travel is becoming more and more convincing, reassuring, and appealing to use. It is even more comfortable than traveling on short distance flights from airports.
It would be very "luxurious" and "opulent" if they play light jazz lounge music to greet passengers, and a fragrant sprayer spraying puffs of fragrance in the train cars.
I think Lumo are on to something here, cheap, comfortable, and fast trains. In the future, they could potentially extend the routes out to Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool, York, Glasgow, Stirling etc. The class 803s are classy trains and reliable. I would definitely pick them over LNER if travelling to London. There is s slight drawback, there is no first class so trains can get busy often. Maybe they could couple two units together? Also, no stop at York is a little disappointing, even if it’s out of their control. I’d like to see them stop at York, Leeds, Doncaster, Peterborough, and Darlington in the future! 😊 great video geoff
Their 17:56 to London on a Saturday is superb. My son and I are Hearts season ticket holders living in Essex, and before Lumo the only train back after full time was the 17:21 from Haymarket, so it was either chancing your arm walking / running up the Dalry Road, or the more expensive option of flying via Gatwick or Stansted.
Excellent. A long way off but when HS2 becomes operational this should release more slots on the original lines up north helping to keep costs down and competition in abundance. More capacity, more routes , more options cheaper fares .
I was on Hitachi 800s between Hull Paragon and Kings Cross last week, both LNER and Hull Trains, and can attest that the seat padding is very thin - those Lumo seats look MUCH better. And the trains are a lovely colour, too :)
The standard seats in a Class 800 are allegedly good for "6 hours" bum on seat! Sadly the seats are rock hard on all 800's except the Lumo trains, which have completely different seats - Better, meaning more comfortable
Enjoyed that light hearted yet informative trip you took me on Geoffrey. If I can get up to the UK again before they stuff me into the pine box, that journey will be on my plastic bucket list. Trouble is Australia is so far away from the rest of the world, it costs an arm and a leg to get up there. But sometimes with the world going crazy, I feel our isolation has it's good points. However, when this pandemic subsides I'll sell imaginary Lamborghini and get up there!
I just googled up a train from London To Edinburgh. I am happy that I will finally be able to get from my howm town to Newcastle without needing to go to London first!
Hi Geoff! I’m a flight attendant in the USA and the airline I work for also has a row of seats without a window. The airline comments that this is because we want the aircraft capacity to be as high as possible, to reduce the fixed cost per available seat. Out of interest, what is the standard seat capacity LNER vs Lumo on an equivalent 5 car basis on the same route?
I’ve traveled from KGX TO NCL with Lumo. Two tickets short ish notice with railcard £66 return. Staff are great and more direct than LNER. My sister has chosen to go up to NCL December on Lumo. Always flown as lives family close to LHR. But flight time 1 hour. Cost £158 Add parking costs and two hour check in.
If you ask me, I do mind windowless seats. As soon as I saw that part showing those seats, I suddenly felt tightness of chest like something powerful was embracing around my chest. I felt that uncomfortable. I'm not doing extras. A very informative and entertaining video though.
So interestingly I was on an LNER down from Edinburgh to London XC on Sunday. After arriving into Newcastle our train fairly quickly filled up. After we departed we were then informed that it was a recommended no travel day due to the weather, and also as it turned out downed lines at Peterboro... It's always nice to inform passengers after they could've not travelled. After we departed passengers were informed that Lumo tickets were not valid on that service. So after hearing the chap talking about battery requirements etc regarding if lines were down it sounds like that they couldn't run the service till the lines were fixed. I'd like to say we were one of the first trains to get through from up north, but glad I was on an LNER, rather than the Lumo considering that at least LNER were running
