It’s interesting how pyro went from being the worst class without question in versus saxton hale to being actually pretty good just by having airblast not add to Hales charge.
I absolutely love how RU-vid age restricted the original video but they have absolutely no problem with people uploading half-naked yoga without any restrictions.
I feel you kinda just glossed over the tiny little buff the widow maker has, it deals bonus damage to the same target as your sentry. In normal games this is complete doodoo poop fart but when your sentry is only gonna be targeting this one guy it actually makes the damage buff noticeable
How do you expect an AI to think? And before you say "yotube ahould have real people in charge of age restrictions" youtube is WAYYY to massive for that, litterally weeks worth of content uploaded per second, let's say the average video is 5 minutes, that would mean you'd need, youtube would need at least 2,500 people watching videos 24/7, with full time shifts that's 10,000 people needed
@@flamingscar5263 As mentioned before you can make the ai better. Secondly, you only need to hire people for appeals, and only the time stamp the AI marked for age restriction, no the whole video.
@@flamingscar5263It's fine to have robots age-restrict things, after all it's not very feasible to check every single video by hand. BUT! Appeals exist. They should be handled by actual humans who actually care, and they really aren't! A bogus age-restriction should be resolvable in a few hours at most by submitting one (1) appeal.
I like using the Hitman's Heatmaker a lot in VSH mainly because of the quieter shots. Hale players will most likely target the Sniper if they hear their shot echo through the open map, so having one that's quiet gives you a bigger chance of remaining undetected, at least for my experience.
@masterofdoots5965 seeing you and OP's comment shows how you have zero understanding how much DPS the minigun does. The damage penalty is there for the same reason it has on sentries, it shreds them very quickly. Hale having 20k HP would get absolutely decimated by stacking heavies with no damage penalty. Hale gets his damage done by meleeing them, which wouldn't you know it, heavy's deadliest range for his minigun to do max damage.
@zuhdibeyblade9 I know that without the nerf, he would be way too powerful, but making the minigun that weak just feels a bit too much. Maybe -30% would still be balanced, IDK
@@zuhdibeyblade9that’s true but a wise Hale doesn’t run up to a Heavy to just punch them in the face, you can kill then with charges, stomp shockwaves, Saxton punches and head stomps, all of which besides the last one do percentage-based damage so Heavy’s health pool is absolutely worthless. I’ve noticed that Heavy doesn’t have a damage reduction on vsh_facility, one of the more popular community VSH maps (where you fight the Robo-Hale) and yet I can still consistently win as Saxton against Heavy-stacked teams in spite of the brave jump cooldown, weaker abilities etc., it just requires a little more brainpower. The minigun damage nerf just rewards bad Saxtons and makes Heavy totally obsolete against good ones
For those who wonder what the song in the intro is, it's called: find your one way. from the guilty gear strive ost, it's specifically sol badguys theme.
Tbh. The only nerf I wish Hale got is to make his punches deal 130 damage. Unlike the community mod version, in Vscript he got a ton of extra damage damage from ground pound and charge punch which already deal significantly alot more damage then running to someone and punch them, he can keep the power up punch being a full 195 and sentry destroying capability but regular attack should only deal 130.
On top of that, maybe Heavy needs some additional damage resistance like what Medic had? Maybe he should be able to take 3 hits (4 with overheal). I mean, he's the TANK class. Why is Medic about as tanky as a Heavy?
@@DataDrain02 That also accounted if Hale fist was nerfed to 130 damage since Hale need to 3 punch to kill a heavy. This doesn`t include other ability hale got tho.
I think that's WAAAAY too weak, especially the power up punch. Now you cant even kill level 3 TELEPORTERS AND DISPENSERS, let alone other classes. Overhealed Heavies, shields and level 3 sentries are the only thing that can tank a Saxton Punch, we should keep it that way
@@-RandomStranger- Do you forgot that Hale can just charge punch in and then ground slam for a ton of AoE before hitting whatever with the power up punch that have AoE that could also kill/destroy anything it hit and on top of that Hale can just start punching people as normally after all of that.
(This comment is copied over from the original video before it got taken down. I am reposting to see if anyone wants to discuss this) The video was generally pretty good with solid advice and pretty decent ratings for most things. HOWEVER you both undersold some weapons and classes and completely ignored others. One weapon I'm super surprised you didn't bring up at all was the reserve shooter. In VSH v-script the reserve shooter does full crits anytime Hale is in the air because of his jumps. It used to be anytime he was off the ground but that was nerfed. The reserve shooter is probably the most consistent damage soldier and pyro can output, especially pyro because it allows him to get decent damage with the crit airshots while Hale is out of range of the flamethrower and moving to much for the flare guns. And on top of that, it has a faster switch speed meaning that when you see Hale in the air you can just swap to it and get some easy shotgun crits on him. All if these things combined make it incredibly powerful and a shame and a blessing more people don't use it in VSH. Another weapon I feel was undersold was the Force-a-Nature. Most of my time playing VSH has been relegated to scout as he is the class I am most comfortable with and the weapon I consistently get the best results with is the FaN. The extra mobility of having extra jumps and corrections mid-air while still having your primary weapon out is insane and allows for more dodges and jukes from the scouts end. Plus the knockback means that either the Hale is going to have to put way more effort in to killing a FaN scout than a babyface's blaster scout. Because with the babyface all Hale has to do to effectively counter you is do a slam in your area and then you are slowed down to a crawl meaning the Hale can either punch you or finish you off with a charge. With the FaN you still have access to double jumping, and it doesn't negatively affect your movement speed. These things alone make even the stock just as good as babyface however with the knockback and the extra jump, this puts it far and away the best scattergun. You can use it to help push Hale off important teammates, jump up to harder to reach and hit places, allows you to stall Hale so long as you don't miss shots. With all of these things along side scouts innate movement and the even more movement utility that wall climbing gives means that you will get to do the most damage possible with maintaining great survivability. From experience I have reached the last three surviving team members almost every time which means that you also get mini-crits and if left alive long enough full crits meaning the already great knockback is further increased due to the increase in damage. And with fewer teammates alive, you can more freely shove Hale around wherever you need him to go to ensure survivability. Pair the FaN with the Sandman and even if the Hale knows how to avoid most of the slowdown you can be sure that with the extra 50 damage the ball brings you are also getting more long range damage as well as slowing the Hale down for at least a second before the start to realize they need to counter the slowdown. In my opinion these weapons are hugely powerful and impactful. Now if we talk about good Hale players there isn't much any class can do but as you said in the video going off of normal Hale players they both get insane value for just having them.
Another note is he didn't really talk about the Direct Hit for the soldier, simply decrying it as bad and moving on, but it actually has a niche no other rocket launcher can fill as effectively consistently: Support. With rockets that move faster and deal more damage to Saxton, but the same damage to a soldier who uses them to rocket jump, you can build up banners faster than with any other launcher (except maybe the air strike with a maxed out clip) The smaller radius and mini-crits on super jumping saxtons is also good, the the latter moreso than the former. Smaller blast radius' mean that, whilst you can't deal with crowds as well, against Saxton you're only dealing with one guy so that's not as bad, plus with a decent engineer you can offset the ammo used by missing (which is just as bad with every other launcher) The mini-crits on airborne saxtons allows you to limit an entire axis of movement for him, which is INCREDIBLY good in a gamemode like VSH. All in all, the Direct Hit works best when you go for a more supporting playstyle with a banner and probably the disciplinary action too, not when you're going for a pure damage role.
Nice list! I think you nailed most of the placements, and this is coming from a vscript VSH enjoyer that's played hundreds of hours. It's not easy covering almost every weapon, and do it well. My only major gripes are Soldier/Trolldier/Spy placement, and you're missing a very important VSH mechanic. 1:14:50 Market gardens and backstabs do the same amount of base damage. The reason the two hits you compared didn't do the same amount of damage is because they probably didn't. Damage in VSH is calculated by not only the amount of players, but also the amount of teammates who've died. So when you got the 1000 damage backstab it probably took you longer, and more of your team was dead than when you got the 750 MG. Anyways, maybe I wont have to see scouts with that garbage cleaver or gift wrap anymore, so thanks. If you ever make an updated list please just scream MAD MILK 200x over the scout section.
Maybe this is just placebo. But, doesn't the stock melee for Demo have more knockback than the swords? I feel like when I was messing around with Demopan. I knockes Hale away more often. But... again, could just be placebo. Also... not sure why you're so angry about the Pain Train. If a Hale LETS you cap. That's his fault. He's so flipping OP. Something that actually gives your team a SLIGHT advantage isn't the end of the world. Plus give it time, the Pain Train will probably be nerfed like all the other tactics from the past. Remember when 2 Ubersaw hits gave you full Uber?
Swords have less knockback yes, although technically I think hitting Hale at the maximum sword range + the knockback it deals is equal or close to the same stock bottles. My issue with the pain train and capping in general is how it completely removes the VS part of Versus Saxton Hale. You gotta realize that all the maps are designed with the point in the middle, aka the best place to stand and be, resulting in people capping a lot more than should be Obviously there are valid times to cap, but that really only happens if the last 3 guys are turtling Engineer's or Spy and Scout.
A fun idea for heavy I cooked up was him taking less damage from Hale's punches (ie: heavy takes no melee crit damage). If he only took 65 damage as opposed to 195, his slow movement and reduced knockback would be a fair-ish trade for being able to have a boxing match Saxton. Would be super busted with the Holiday Punch.
its been some time since I played VSH (don't even know if people are still playing it), but as medic I used to run the amputator because I hated having 3 or more people with almost no hp looking at me asking for heal, and only being able to slowly heal one at a time. So I preferred to risk doing the taunt with the amputador and try to heal everyone rather than deal with this shit situation with only the medgun
I remember seeing you in game spacey, I’d put a link as proof to a screenshot but my comment got removed when I did 💀, but its good to see ya uploading again
Isn't Sun on a stick only upside is 100% critical damage vs burning player and 25% fire resistance while active ? The stock bat (which is the worst stock melee in raw DPS, even the stock shovel have 25% more DPS) is better than this due to almost all melees are crit-boosted which include stock bat. Lizard of Oz propably forgot this melee exist because popular bad weapon videos only cover bison, classic, syringe guns, etc (or doesn't know how to buff it to not be borderline overpowered like eyelander & half-zatoichi)
29:00 From what I've found testing the Axetinguisher, you actually DON'T get the speed boost when hitting Hale. So it doesn't even have that going for it.
I think you undervalue the Reserve Shooter INSANELY HARD on soldier. Playing with the liberty launcher or even the rocket jumper with the reserve shooter makes you an impossible to catch mosquito that constantly pumps out 40-50 damage hits from really long ranges. While it’s not the best thing you can do, it’s certainly worth a try and DEFINITELY worth at least a mention. Edit: Pyro too? For shame.
Im pretty sure the original upload was age restricted because the "sax" part of "saxton hale" sounds like "sex" and you say "saxton hale" quite a few times over the course of the video
I don't really play tf2 that much anymore so I'm not very experienced in Saxton hale but I would've thought the shotguns would be better. Like it could give Pyro some safe medium range hitscan, and soldier can use it when he needs to reload.
9:26 Tbh, there are some very fun moments with the Boston Basher. My favorite is the medic+scout Boston crasher: You Ubercharge a scout and he runs in crit swinging with the bleed. It’s a fun and extremely satisfying dumbass strategy, and it’s fantastic when you have a medic pocket. You also build ubercharge faster too lol 38:30 I love the FE music playing the background, I love the singing as I SWINGING and gaining health player or even the eye lander to RUSH B.
It's just ridiculous that Heavy got a huge damage nerf across the board with his Miniguns. They should have been removed, considering Heavy is risky af.
Hello, friend of one of the map developers here. I was surprised to hear that my friend Muddy made Tiny Rock... uh... that's all I gotta say, just wanted to flex that I know one of the map devs lol. Edit: Used to know. Turns out they fucking hate me or some shit.
With saxtons speed the flairguns have the same issue as the rockets. The man melter deals good damage has a faster projectile speed meaning you can aim easier and is a good combo tool.
The combo of the baby face and sandman garuntee you to constantly slow saxton down while still keeping your distance running. Only problem is that you need to hit the sandman balls accurately
Strats I use against Hale (the one with complex moveset): Scout - Baby Face's Blaster with cleaver and wrap assassin for Bleed. Very annoying yet too fast (literally, not even low hp Saxton should be able to catch up unless caught by suprise and now suddenly close up). You'll only be in big trouble if it is just you vs Hale when point is unlocked. Soldier - Katana + Battalion that gives +20 more HP. Bonus points if you got a medic pocket. Pyro - Anything can work techically on the Hale that doesnt get rage if being airblasted. Go nuts. Engineer - Either Turtling or Widowmaker can work I suppose. Heavy - Honestly up to you, I don't really use it. But if going for memes, it would be the xmas gloves. Demoman - Demoknight. Spy - Can use anything, just expect to die a lot. Medic - Anything works, just think about what synergy you bring to other players that have their own kits. Sniper - Works but hindered in compact maps. You are better off using other classes in compact maps. Favorite Map? - The one where it has the room with cameras to show locations and broadcasts VC to both teams. Too many fun moments like the FNAF moments caused by players with microphones AND plus the scout strat works wonders there with multiple routes to lose Saxton Hale hot on your tracks.
The optimal strategy: have at least four Scouts ready to capture the point. This is accomplished by multiple Medics and engineers. Medix to keep the Scout alive an engineer's sentury nests to keep Saxton busy. All other classes and strategies are suboptimal or redundant.
Vscript Hale is fun but i've come to resent it for basically killing off plugin Hale mostly for a version with only one boss and only four maps. At least Freak Fortress is still a thing. Plus aside from Medic and Pyro I felt most classes are more fun in Plugin.
My favorite spy moment in vsh was when I disguised as a pyro on my team, and saxton super punched me then taunted, to which I responded by exiting my dead ring and stabbing him. He even said in chat that I tricked him. I still died after but a lot of people forget that you can disguise as your own teammates, and with the ringer it can be tricky
