The Problem with Jordan Peterson 

Wand Exactly. That's my motto and I still have to be careful , because I think it is human nature for people to slack off on questioning when they agree with someone on several topics ("we are on the same page of everything"). I think Trump thrives on this flaw in people's reasoning. Trump sets the stage by catering to what he knows are their core beliefs and after that (we see eye to eye) connection, he can do no wrong. Trump is a moron overall, but he certainly realizes how to exploit the most basic human nature (visceral). It "feel" good to see eye to eye with others ("they get me").

Why? :P

Questioning is addictive and can isolate you but it's still well worth it once you realize that a lot of people like JP etc are asleep

"Questions climate change"- we gotta jail these ppl.

@@lewisbilly12353 what do you mean?

Ummm...if your quoting someone make sure to use quotation marks. “Like this” by Javier

@@JavierRamirez-lx4ev jahvier×

​@@JavierRamirez-lx4ev Ummm... Wow, thanks. By the way, if you are attempting to connect the words you and are, that contraction is spelled: "you're".

why? I think it was quite clear that this was a quote. quotation marks are an instrument to help eliminate ambiguity. paul's post had none to eliminate. it is perfectly acceptable to quote the way he did when there is no chance of misunderstanding

​@@forestl-m6261 Thank you for pointing that out in the friendly manner I should have but was at a loss for [in responding to Javier]. It's nice to see people so concerned about the correct use of language...

I " like" him sometimes; however, even Carl Jung was known to say on more than one occasion- " Thank God I am Jung..and not a Jungian!" Good job.

@matt when I researched Jordan Peterson I find arrogance and hypocrisy. The College of Psychology has numerous independent complaints filed against him for blatant unprofessional misconduct. Instead of being humble enough to search himself, he went on public attack in opposition to every single thing he teaches about keep your house in order, dragging his daughter and the you tube public into his own war instead of taking accountability and correcting his errors. Some people worship him and treat him like he is the omniscient expert on everything and his ego revels in this, instead of having humility to realize that he doesn't have solutions to problems just sanctimonious criticism.

@may.mercy66 Peterson is a misogynist and a narcissist. I'm sure he was shunned by his peers in academia. He engages in alot intellectual fucking. Not my type.

@@AngelaMay66 Are you kidding? Could you be specific?

​​@@AngelaMay66 lol so @Victor Frankenstein told you to be specific when you clearly were being specific when talking about him being accused of misconduct and how he chose to go about it. This is why you dont argue with JP fans lmfao

Best advice on the page. That's been my phylosophy for decades.

This is what should be the motto of our lives. 🙌🙌

*with

@fjf sjdnx ???

Emmanuel Gabion Why do I need a grain of salt? That’s a bit strange.

Absolutely true. I like Peterson, I listen to his lectures a lot and his thoughts helped me in my life. However, while listening to him, I always have in mind, that not everything that he says is true/relatable to me, so I always trying to be aware of not being fooled.

It's a pinch of salt and not everything should be 'taken too lightly', which is the meaning behind it, imao.

Definitely, or more accurately "The problem with celebrity culture", where people place great value on the views of other people simply because that other person is a celebrity and not because they have any actual expertise in the subject matter at hand. It is a problem far from unique to fans of Jordan Peterson. Who cares what the Kardashians think about anything other than fashion, or what way Kanye is going to vote or that Kathy Griffen is triggered AGAIN.... As for Jordan speaking on matters outside his expertise the solution is simple, Stop asking him about them! This is why people were laughing about the Australian woman asking him about fixing climate change, he never said he was an expert on the environment so you achieved nothing by showing he had no answers for climate change.

Agreed.

@James Dowds my hero nothing, he's an interesting thinker, nothing more. He is too religiously oriented and constantly uses various ploys to play for more time to think as people then stupidly think his eventual answer is off the cuff and ohh and ahh. I just think it's pathetic when people like you try to tear someone down and can't even go after the real person for their actual flaws but have to make up a strawman of them instead, just shows you to be a far lesser being than your target.

Love him, hate him. He's doing alot of good for alot people. Those hardcore fanboys are probably those who have benefited most. But yea, descending into blind following is never good..

@@daivahataka He's not really an interesting thinker though that's the thing. It becomes pretty clear when you really look at what he's saying, or watch him try to talk to someone who's educated. You have to really pay attention, because he drones on with these 50 word sentences of him talking in circles and making very little sense, he loses people and they figure it's just a bit too intelligent and complex for them to follow. He's not your hero yet here you are making excuses for him and attacking his critics. You're clearly a bigger fan than you admit. At least you have the sense to be embarrassed about it.

Wait, How are you seeing the dislikes? I thought youtube removed them

@@GOOFYgoober112 yeah I was going to ask the same question

@@GOOFYgoober112 There's a Chrome extension that returns the dislike button.

Um can you not see the Likes button? Because there’s 25k smart guy

@@lionelgrisbane-ud87 yeah but that's kind of a high like/dislike ratio.

What is wrong with being conservative?

@@zimskasalamaa I could say the same about liberals. I can’t go anywhere in town without seeing a pride flag. I get canceled if I don’t use your made up preferred pronouns. Your leadership has mandated an experimental vaccine that has segregated a part of the population. It seems like if I don’t conform to your leftist ideology I will get canceled it lose my job. That doesn’t seem very fair or balanced. Who is pushing world views on who now?

@@zimskasalamaa you should be a comedian

@@peterwilliams9892 These days? Most things.

@@peterwilliams9892 From a leftist POV, a lot of things. Politics affect people's wellbeing so political beliefs can be harmful.

I think you may be referring to people who are morally defective, despite being highly intelligent. It might point to some type of personality disorder, at least a kind of moral blindness. People like that are often extremely successful in their working lives - very active on both sides of the law.

Then you shouldn't be talking about those subject as if you were right

A polymoron! That's a good 1

I don't get why this is mentionable. I suppose is because Americans have a tendency to search purity, to think religiously. No thinker doesn't have a series of profoundly stupid ideas attached. From Nietzsche to Chomsky, not a single human. In fact, the most groundbreaking some idea more dumb in other areas, because those personalities take positions to extremes with ease. Why is that discussed of Peterson?. Pick what you find valuable and move one. I'm pretty sure Pakman thinks he is the arbiter and does not grant the courtesy of thinking he could be holding dumb ideas himself

Well put.

Everyone who watches Dr. Peterson needs to watch this, and read this comment.

Read his Maps of Meaning - or try to. It’s laughably bad, syntactically and logically garbled half-digested Jungian nonsense.

@@bentonschaefer p0

Christa McDonald ?

lheizmann I’ve just read this. He’s spot on. Peterson belongs in the LOA/self help guru category. Robinson nails it when he says whenever Peterson is vague, he’s staying the obvious once you unpack the message. When he’s being specific, his message is horrifying. I’ve seen vids where he’s encouraging ppl to ditch others once you perceive them to be less than you, vids where he’s encouraging tax dodging. He’s a MASSIVE racist. He’s a complete psychopath who actually encourages ppl to only look after their own interests and trample on the weak or poor.

Most of his psychological takes are very insightful and helpful, but when I went and bought his book, I couldn't believe that it was actually about his religious views. I kid you not, he turned into a bible thumper in his book lmao...

Yes, like really a ick moment for me.@@JohnSmith-bs9ym

The Intellectual We Deserve Jordan Peterson’s popularity is the sign of a deeply impoverished political and intellectual landscape… By Nathan J. Robinson @ Current Affairs .org. 14 March 2018 "...Jordan Peterson appears very profound and has convinced many people to take him seriously. Yet he has almost nothing of value to say. This should be obvious to anyone who has spent even a few moments critically examining his writings and speeches, which are comically befuddled, pompous, and ignorant. They are half nonsense, half banality. In a reasonable world, Peterson would be seen as the kind of tedious crackpot that one hopes not to get seated next to on a train..."

Alot of (all) right wing propaganda is based in reverse psychology, it seems to me they're all students of psychological warfare and drawing from the kind of research into cults done during MK Ultra experiments done by the CIA. They're also all Roman Catholics

Yes. It's been a great source of inspiration for his tribe.

@Justin Bradburn did you just call David Duke a leftist??

@Justin Bradburn lmao the idea of claiming you aren't engaging in tribalism while claiming that any leftist notion is "demokkkrat bullshit". My dude, do you seriously have no idea how badly you are contradicting yourself.

@Justin Bradburn Mussolini, Richard Spencer, David Duke, Hitler and Goebbells are all right wingers, not leftists. The Obamas, Clintons, Pelosi and Harris are center-right. You can't just call everyone you don't like a leftie, words have meanings.

Well said. These kids see him as a father figure. His advice is actually called the "Dad pill", largely due to his focus on individualism and self-reliance. AA give the opposite advice. And when Jordan had a problem with anxiety, his family had to help him. It's a conflicting message. But Jordan is all about good stories (Biblical heroes etc.), not philosophy built on axioms, like he claims. (Because if that were true, as someone who like to debate, wouldn't he share he's premises?) And who doesn't want to be a hero?

I'd agree that's a matter of the followers' youth, inexperience, and insecurity combined with J. Peterson's exceptional skill to explain quite complex issues in a palatable manner, even to people who have no idea about philosophy or psychology. But David is right - the fact Dr. Peterson is well educated, sensitive, and a great communicator doesn't make him infallible. Also, I suspect Dr. Peterson is absolutely conscious of his status as the political figure, sort of, lol, only he doesn't want to accept it publicly because that obviously wasn't his intention to become one. It happened as "collateral damage" of his public performances because, as David correctly pointed out, all his topis basically are highly politically charged directly or indirectly. And you are right in the evaluation of his acts in the eyes of his adoring followers. He probably filled the gap of the missing impressive father figure for many young men; sigh... So, when somebody attacks him, his "kids" are protecting him - sort of natural, though, in this particular case, not a very healthy approach. And over here, I would expect Dr. Peterson to personally intervene and guide his followers further from himself and closer to critical and independent thinking.

Like you guys don't also apply trust and resonance when listening to your guru's too . And why shouldn't someone be liked , accepted and popular ? Whats wrong with that ? Isn't that what the presenter of this video wants also ?

@@gosforthlad Very good questions. I think it would be more helpful for you to answer those yourself though since the answers are not short. I'll give you some themes though: Balance of opinions Control Group think

@@edwardmitchell6581 The nuances of the English language and self reflection are obviously lost on you . My questions were rhetorical and I already know the answers to them . Your comments are childish and reeking of envy .

Yeah, it's really fascinating and actually fun to listen to.

wow

@Stefan Slade poisonous how? because their view points don't align with yours? if not, do tell.

Pakman can't address his arguments. that's y he makes up nothing issues with Peterson.

@@spankstar They're probably not anymore poisonous than your average political fan base. I do find it interesting how easy it is to see the outrageously chaotic nature of most RU-vid comment sections, and then it becomes so clear why the real world is so similarly chaotic.

@@drystkrab269 yeah, it seems like an extreme strawman, can't attack peterson the man so instead attack his fans, seems to be a common approach from his detractors. Wonder if the Newman interview put them off trying to strawman his words... 🤣

Indeed it does. Or at least it does in many cases. But it happens on both sides.

But that’s not Jordan Peterson... that’s people who like Jordan peterson

I was going to say that’s a critique on his defenders not him. But that’s not even a critique on his defenders, that’s just a general observation on how a lot of people are defensively bias about shit they like.

@@jamescarter3738 right, but when you are a doctor doing this type of work, to enlighten people, you would point that out to them, about critical thinking, just look what the lack of critical thinking did to trump voters, the percentage of his voters who believed these wild conspiracy theories about the election, it’s destroying republicans, conservatives, right leaning people, the numbers are too great to ignore this, the people with a following needs to point this problem out.

@@MaRi-zp9zk yeah I see what you’re saying but it goes on amongst political ideologies the same. Like to undermine the lefts message and motives based on the crazy and radical minority of the overall following is just as nonsensical as this critique of Jordan Peterson’s. You know what I mean?

Jordan Peterson is the only person who is respected for taking simple concepts like - hungry people want food - and then turning that into an unnecessary rambling 3,000 word mess.

@@dcpayne5264 relax, he's still right in some cases; not everyone can be right. You just dislike him and that alone has already clouded your judgement about him.

@@dcpayne5264I guess you understand most of what he says

One is not a "competent rhetorician" when one's words don't even follow logical and factual consistency.

I know. Anyone in most European countries, who questions the legitimacy of the issue, is likely to be considered a wackjob.

Unfortunately the Germany has a lot of people arguing whether climate change is real or not. A far-right German Party is still demanding proof and says that climate change depends on the sun’s heat.

@@berbersista oh good lord....

MissPronounced yeah she argued that climate change is not man made and that cold water absorbs carbon dioxide. She said that if climate change is real it’s not man-made but sun-made and that we should sue the sun if that were the case. Also interesting to know about her: she’s the grand-daughter of Hitlers’ secretary for finance. So there’s that.

@@kristianj.8798 I live in the Netherlands and climate change is and will always be a political issue because it is about money.

The 'Peterson Preach' is supposed to be guidelines for people with a somewhat solid ground under their feet. Some have not and they will be disgruntled over the preachings.

No. He willingly entered the political sphere then bitched about it when he got his ass handed back to him. Great communicator, psychologist, and businessman tho.

@@ejaganjac7085 Wasn't part of his talk about Petersons followers that attack people? I wonder.......was he talking about Petersons followers, or his own?

@Exec Utize hahaha

@@ejaganjac7085 I wish for you to link what ever you are talking about. I have never seen him "have his ass handed to him"

Lol what did they pay you to lie like that?

@@lady4191 Opinions are not lies. At least I am clear about what I think of this video. Your comment is devoid of meaningful content, honest or otherwise.

You had it right to begin with. We need to dissect him. Period

@@somethingelse4150 _He appears to be a normal human being. I wonder how he managed the deception. Oh well, stitch him up._

We don't only have a tendency to be wrong sometimes. More like it's a miracle we get any things right😂😂

Not really. He gives that impression because there is a lot of clips floating around, but his view on politics is one of the most balanced I have found. He, next to Jonathan Haidt, Steven Pinker are the only scientists that I know that acknowledge the biological proclivity of people toward Left and Right, so Peterson's arguments assume both sides are convinced they are correct and they have to base in a dialogue which solution to implement. From almost every argument I have heard the Left and Right position. You get to understand better how Conservatives think, even if you don't agree with them (which is essencial in case you want to convince them) Granting legitimacy to both sides at the same time is something that is not done at discussing politics. He does not like the extremes, but the core of his message is that the tension between Left and Right produces the advancement in society, because both play a critical role. The Left protecting the weak, the Right being skeptical of new solutions, so the job of the Left is to convince to move forward. That view is light years away of the caricature that Left and Right do of each other in their echo chambers

@@heikorudiger3258 when or what, for example, did homo sapiens get anything right?🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

😂👌 exactly this. I was into JP up until about end of 2019. (Wasn’t into him right from his whole bill c-16 thing) So not a fan boy! 1st time I got suspicious of him was when Peter Hitchens described him as a guru. I’ve re-watched a few of his vids, the guy is unhinged. And that’s not going from 1 extreme to the other. He’s an elitist, pro capitalist, rampant advocate of individualism, his message is “there’s a load of people in society, who are in your way, get smarter in the way you operate.” He’s constantly trying to justify selfishness, he does this really well. A total sociopath. He endorses tax dodging, in 1 vid he endorses ditching people once you perceive them to be less than you. He says lefties are “excessively impulsive in compassion and compassion is the line between cuddling your baby or throwing it out the window!” He’s a MASSIVE racist. It would not surprise me if he’s being funded from some right wing groups, almost all of what he says about the left ties in with propaganda from right wing outlets.

Crispin Fornoff for stop and search policies he said, “find out who it is and why you’re stopping them. Being accused of racism could be a side effect.” In another vid he said “Greeks are corrupt, they don’t pay their income tax. Why do we pay our taxes, maybe we shouldn’t like the Greeks.” There’s other examples too of him being a full on racist. As for capitalism, the privatisation of healthcare when public health authorities could handle coronavirus results in private corps like Deloitte and Serco profiting during a global pandemic here in the U.K. Serco have FAILED with the test and trace app. Individualism, boy oh boy, that’s a mess both sides of the political spectrum have contributed to. Socially/culturally the left are responsible for and the “conservatives” have embraced whole heartedly. Economically, the right wing are responsible. The whole “there’s no such thing as a society”, neoliberalism has led to Britain scoring consistently high in loveliness, no country in Europe has embraced individualism, competition and consumerism as much as the U.K.

Crispin Fornoff what you’ve written is total gibberish. Our test and trace system was contracted to a private company, w/o tender, the app didn’t pass security! Privatisation is inefficient. As for thinking I’m a student, you’ve just created a straw man, you’ve deffo learned well from Peterson! Read the last 10 pages of chapter 3, classic Peterson! This is taken from Nathan J Robinson’s “the intellectual we deserve” article. “Note the response to the “poor man’s plight,” which is not to actually help him but to show him what a better person you are so that he will have a model to emulate.” Classic JP! 12 Rules for Life is a LOA book, full of spurious arguments against taking an active interest in politics or society, since the true meaning of life is taking care of me, myself and I. 😂 nothing new, plenty of LOA coaches out there, now clear off fan boy! 😂

@@naveed210 that was a nice thing you did. Saying you were a fan to give your made up, over exaggerated, paranoid criticism of him any credibility. Yes, Peterson has his faults and moments of hypocrisy. As does everyone else. No one should dick ride any person. Fanboys are cringey. You know what else is cringey? Blind hate. Relax, kid.

Chris Valenzuela nice try fan boy! The guy is nothing but a LOA coach spouting rubbish on topics he knows nothing about. In 1 vid he says, “I bet on Britain over the EU after Brexit, because they have a history of muddling their way through things.” That’s about as close as 1 can get to white/British supremacy, his confidence isn’t based on facts or statistical analysis, but just blind faith. Have a read of the last 10 pages of chapter 3 in Rules for Life, classic Peterson!

What you say is so true!

his books are for those who obsess about a concept relatively pointed to any nihilistic point of view. people who have overly inclination on doubtfulness about any abstractions of thought i guess. and i think his axioms are dismantled on those books not superficially and shallow, but clearly and profoundly.

Same. Not a fan but agreed with some ideas. I want my views challenged.

Respect to you both for being mature enough to seek opposing views

same. why i'm here. he's getting a lot of bad press as of late, and i don't want to be as miopic as the people of the left that I despise

Same thats exactly why im here. I feel like ive already picked up on at least 2 obvious issues with this critique in the first 6.5 minutes. 1. The point about JP not being right wing. But the way this guy talks about it makes it sound like 'if you're not left, youre right. No middle ground. And does not JP describe himself as a classical liberal? If i remember that correctly, then does not that jive perfectly with JP's views listed in the beginning? And 2) he claims that JP really came to prominence by his "vocal opposition to transgender pronouns." I think that is either a lazy and obtuse, or intentional and malicious mischaracterization. It could have been a number of specific issues. It happened to be pronouns. He wasn't voicing opposition to pronouns, he was voicing opposition to compelled speech, which is a drastically different point.

yes..it reminds me of the "life of brian"..when brian's mum says to a crowd..you're all individuals..and a lone voice pipes up..i'm not...lmao

Packman: "Jordan Peterson isn't an omniscient guru, he's a smart guy but he's not infallible, and don't blindly follow anything" Packman fans in unison: "PeTeRsOn Is A dUmB pErSoN's IdEa Of A sMaRt PeRsOn" it's like everyone commenting on this page has missed the fucking point lol. Peterson has his strengths and weaknesses, just like any and every idolized intellectual, in certain contexts Peterson's ideas are wildly misguided, in certain contexts he speaks profound wisdom.... as an engineer i know a good deal about engineering, and i know fuck-all about programming. Every "intellectual" should be taken in context, For example, i really rate Sam Harris as a profound thinker, but i probably know a great deal more about Engineering than he does, i would wreck him in that context.

@@pablowall you really need to learn some philosophy

@@kefsound just curious what your point is?

Lol

Then he's achieved his objective of making you doubt your own self leadership because you're likely still cleaning your room while watching the world burn. Sidenote; Your room will never be clean enough. It was never even meant to be.

@@avamasquerade well damn 🤣u picked a perfect time to talk about watching the world burn. But yeah I was 16 and doubted my "self leadership" already. He ended up being a spark in what eventually led to me maturing. I get if u don't like him & i don't keep up with what he's doing. But Even if he was a terrible person, it wouldn't change the fact that the few pieces of advice i heard from him on Jre helped me thru a rough time 4 years ago. That was the end of it for me. Im not arguing over the internet, i just thought I'd clarify. Stay safe yo

@@ozark4737 I just don't like a person who stands on a podium preaching at people to go clean their room because they're not good enough to change the world when he, himself, was in desperate need of actually getting clean. My point is that if people are waiting to be deemed "good enough" to make profoundly positive changes to the world around them by these soon to be former overlords, then they'll never even leave the house. While I'm glad his advice helped you (and some of his lectures were fascinating) a person who dismisses you like you're some annoying child and who is so damned disrespectful as to tell you to go clean your room when you have *serious existential concerns,* while he nurses a many years long opioid addiction just isn't a good source for guidance.

@Charity Ava why are you unable to distinguish between the messenger and the message? Peterson’s opioid problem is irrelevant.

@@aafgahfah If Peterson's message of "you are not qualified to address the world's ills until your own affairs are in order" is to apply to everyone, including himself, then by those rules his opioid problems are not entirely irrelevant. I'd be a little leery of the guru-type (functionally the role he plays for many): he may have good things to say, but "shut up and clean your room" I find just a wee bit presumptuous.

@@mrmrt7535 I agree in part to the characterisation of some JP and Shapiro fans. There is a awful lot of tribalism in society and it's clearly creeped into socioeconomical debating arena. I being relatively conservative, am still able to give credit to arguments from the left and even critique and change some of my own. What I tend to find is there are a lot of people on the left that aren't able to do the same. I've found there is a natural reluctance to admit that JP and Shapiro are making good and solid points on issues simply because their fans tend to be butt hurt. This is wrong. I disagree with Pakman on many things but I do not tailor my responses based on his audience but rather on the issue he's presented. it's classic ad hominem to just attack someones fan base rather than the ideas they've presented. The world is too polarised and it's stifling the nature of our debates. One thing I would love to see is JP and Pakman go head to head on the issue of masculinity, wokeness and climate change. That would be box office

@@MrOrd123 Ben Shapiro is a trump loving moron who spreads hate speech & influences the far right.

He really didn't. He kept saying " petersons ideology" while peterson dispises the idea of ideology. One example of why he isn't accurate enough imo. Oh no one asked? Sorry ^^

camefromice just because Peterson claims he doesn’t have an ideology, doesn’t mean he actually doesn’t. He’s clearly a Christian conservative and not too much more

@@finndaniels9139 that's not an ideology , god you can't just throw words around. Also you put him into that box, there is even a video why he thinks that he can't be just conservative. Stop labeling people just so you have a point to stand on. No offense, just sayin

Also; why is it important what he is ? How about we stop putting people into boxes and take them for what they are actually doing and saying

camefromice I mean it is a subset of an ideology, conservatism is the ideology of which there are different forms, fiscal conservatism, paternalistic conservatism etc. Religious conservatism absolutely is a subset of an ideology.

el videojuego se refiere?

Is that what it is called? Thank you. It's sort of the opposite of poisoning the well, a kind of positive ad-hom fallacy.

I agree, I did actually agree on his views about the whole pronouns thing. However his ideas are so messed up in other areas. I read both of his latest books and I found myself in awe to realize that he's highly sexist, misogynistic, and a very close minded person. Take into consideration that I'm not a woman yet I found both of his books to be very sexist and misogynistic. He's a supremacist, and he really thinks that this world was created just for us humans, kind of funny considering that even Bees have a more important role in nature than us. I still like some of his idea, but he's certainly not worth the hype, I guess he's highly popular in America since well, he's a Christian and men in America tend to think just like he does, so no wonder he's so popular.

@@zairnermuller4960 He won't admit to being a Christian in debates or interviews with adults but he pitches his faith surreptitiously to his naïve college students. And you know what happens if you disagree with your professor, so even if they detect the bullshit they have no power to act against it. Pretty despicable in my books. Here he is twisting young minds. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wwi9Q9apHGI.html

Good point.

Weak people that are not able to accept any other different opinions are annoying. It is not they but their weakness (for example, weak self control, laziness) make them annoying as hell

@ If only.. !!!

I wouldn’t go any further, but if you do be aware of the fans that think everything he says is “profound” simply because of his credentials, he gives some great advice but when he discusses politics he falls flat on his head and says something REALLY brazenly dumb but no one will challenge it and Jesus Christ I’ve never seen a fan base that all think they’re all philosophical geniuses. Something I really agree with is when Pakman says his fans take themselves way too seriously, they really do to the extent that they take the most niche arguments and present them with filler. Overall I think he’s a pretty nice guy but don’t fall into the same hole done of his Fanbase has. He does bring up really sound and thought provoking arguments in terms of philosophy but trust me, he’s not the next “Socrates” or “Plato” like some people see him as. I would say talking with him would be interesting depending on what it is.

@@user-jt6rh8xy6n Thank you. I appreciate your reply. This is the reason we’re in the boat we’re in now. The fanbase or cult culture, I’ll call it. It’s dangerous.

Kudos for stopping at the extent of your knowledge

@@waylonk2453 Let me guess, you have extensive knowledge on philosophy because you watch RU-vid videos? Or do you have actual credentials?

Omegaia1 kinda sad that he got swallowed up in the whole right wing movement. I used to like him a lot before he started hanging out with Ben Shapiro, dave Rubin, and the likes

When he said, "universities value color of a person when it comes to teaching". I laughed so hard😂😂😂Mate, there will be 0 international students in the US if that were true.

This!!!!!

Milose, steta sto nikog ne boli kurac za tvoje postovanje. ;)

MrRight James "find me ANY video where he loses an argument." are you interested in the actual real world and what's true within it, or are you just interested in watching a smug dude who sounds confident and smart delivering ~EPIC LOGICSLAMS~ in the intellectual WWE? there are plenty of videos, essays, articles etc. debunking a vast swath of ben's major arguments, but those require thinking with your non-lizard brain, and you dont seem interested in that. i'd love to be proven wrong tho

What you say is so true!

I’m glad you got through your depression

At least other psychologists are learning from Peterson's mistakes: not mentioning politics in the 1st place. Apparently politics is a word to trigger someone in Peru imo

@@nestorsifuentesaguirre2722 People in the US care way too much about politics. To a point where they judge a person based on their political views

@@JohnTavastian Peruvians do but for some reason say it to one and someone will lash out at you physically and verbally. Not me of course but politics here are so rotten nearly everyone has become too jaded to even talk.

People's gut instincts? - I prefer people's clear, critical thinking.

People’s? Young men’s maybe.

And they become so woke and begin attacking those who oppose their grandmaster, Peterson.

He just a refugee for the lost men alienated by a society telling them they aren't to succeed because their past generations did and oppressed everyone else

I haven't watched the video yet, but I agree to this statement fully because I'm one of those males. For anyone like me, don't learn from one source, do the research and don't make a cult from any one person. I love Jordan Peterson but at the end of the day you aren't him and you don't have to be him to be good, just try every day to be a better version of yourself.

he literally said this.

Forgive me but this sounds an awful lot like a Jordan Peterson quote 😂

You are so right. I cannot stand Gurus of any kind. I find those people to be off-putting, always.

The fact you have to say this is a joke

@@champagnecocaine569 Its a joke yet it is not. Especially when the line "trust no one" has an even bigger meaning

There should be no age that you reach where you're not learning something new everyday. Your comment should have more upvotes.

Exactly, thank you!

@@genaugmen4505 lol, you have a Reddit?

If you wish you could stop, do you really have a thirst for knowledge? ;)

Accurate.

Hes right about tribalism. It's cancer. This whole "left" "right" nonsense is just that

If you are a Peterson "follower" you did not understand Peterson.

You're referring to Petersons NONfollowers. The ones who created a tribe are those who think he's a Republican. Or even right wing. His actual followers aren't like that.

@@advictoriams EXACTLY. EXACCCCCTTTTLLLLYYYYYYY.

@@diegolainfiesta I'm not. I find his insight into psychology fascinating, but I don't "follow" him and vehemently disagree with his other points. But yeah. I still stand by there being no such thing as left and right, but instead that tribalism has run rampant in society

on god

Contrapoints had a pretty solid take, as well.

@@freeman7079 philosophy tube did better.

It was a little redundant. Maybe people identify with his philosophy and framework along with his advice making positive changes in their life. Being critical of his ideas is encouraged. When you do you separate the fact from opinion you see that a vast majority is referencing studies and statistics and science. When he does share his opinion hes pretty clear that that's his own perspective. The fact that he's eloquent enough to make sense and seem reasonable enough to his followers is a signal that not only are people benefiting from, or relating to his "simple"(I'd say sometimes abstract) advice, but also the philosophy that informs it.

But the main point of the video is, that JP fans are acting wrong and ignorant. I didn't get the critique of JP, except that he says that he isn't a political person.

Great video! Thank you. I also found the comments here refreshing. It is comforting to know that there are more people who choose not to remain on one side or another and have no regrets on questioning even if they do take a lot from Peterson.

I am failing to see this as a critique of Peterson specifically. He is not making any point on his views. This video's message is very general and can be applied to anyone. I am not really understanding the title of the video as technically, he could even be speaking about himself. You should question everything and everyone, not just Peterson.

@@riquelmeone Yeah, but not everyone has a fanbase like peterson's

"Women are only happy if they are married and they have kids" hmmmmmm that's totally a good point he makes.

He never said that. he ment BETTER then having a rich job single.

@@lukejones4129 When you only listen to what people say about him, instead of listening to what he says, you look like a dumbass. When you listen to what he says in such a way where you dont actually listen, but pretend to listen as to counter everything he says and pull things out of context, you look like a malevolent dumbass.

😂

He's just a narcissist who thinks very highly of himself

@@misslala1377 yes and maybe no. He maybe over compensating found a niche and ran with it but trying to hold his own beliefs which people do agree with. But the problem is when people idolise a person instead of ideas they over look flaws and put people onto a pedestal.

Well he helped millions of ppl who suffered from anxiety and depression so there’s that…

@@unclejunebug7178 True but just as the narrators states. He cloak his b.s. right wing, white male privileged ideology in certain universal truths. The universal truths and self help advice is the good part. He serves as a self help guru for the depressed, confused male racist, sexist and privileged. Think "Chicken Soup for Fascists"

More so they don’t want to see him misrepresented because he is often misrepresented just at what made him famous the Kathy newmon debate that strawman effect

How about both ya dinguses

holy projection there bud

what percentage of his fans are actually like this? what is "alot", are you sure this isn't an exaggeration?

@@gaussminigun7095 hit a nerve ?

Pakman is great. I am a devout Christian, a firm capitalist, and become fearful of anything socialist at this point in my life, be it outright Communism or Democratic Socialism (As Pakman is). In spite of the fact that I find his politics and cultural approach to have flaws, he is one of my favorite political commentators. Stick around; he is a well spoken, thought out, legitimate speaker.

@@fylondpettyloaf2972 ... Ughhh .... Pakman is not a "" Democratic Socalist "" !!

@@mysticmarble94 That's right, he's a social democrat.

@@CockatooDude He is indeed !! Same as Bernie and thats the only fucking thing so fucking frustrating with Bernie ... He is so fucking STUBBORN to insist on calling himself Democratic Socalist even tho his POLICY PLANS all correspond 100% to the ... Social Democratic Platform .... And not any kind of Socialism !! And for that right wing scum a little history lesson ! Look up "" SPD "" ... Look up what the S actually stands for and find out that they had been the NUMBER ONE political enemy of the Nazis and therefore fucking Hitler himself ! And I fucking had it with those right wing bastards not knowing ANYTHING about history or getting ANYTHING right about the world !

@@fylondpettyloaf2972 why are you fearful of socialism?

Excellent Monty Python reference

He's not the Messiah! He's a very naughty boy, now GO AWAY!

John Lennon: "Don't follow me, don't look to the Beatles. I have no answers. If you want to change the world go change it yourself. Don't follow leaders." Lennon actually meant it. And Dylan ALWAYS rejected the box people tried to stick him in: "Don't follow leaders / Watch the parking meters."

This exactly.

Peterson don't want people finding their own way. That's why he sells recipes as a coach instead of acting like a psychologyst that helps people find their own truth, their own path in life.

He is a cult leader and they're in the cult

The problem with his traditionalism is that it applies only to men. He wants women to be able to choose what they want which means they will have to work but puts men into a hunter gatherer style hierarchy system. Whether your default route in life is becoming financially successful or not, never ask for removing your choices. Its counter productive and puts men under do or die frame of mind which wont end well in the long term. Not for us and not for the ones around us. Uniform progress or nothing.

Me too and let me tell you, this was not a good critique I am looking for one and this did not do it for me He talks more about the effects of his work than the man itsself. One thing that bothered me a lot was that he kept saying "petersons ideology", well there you can see that he hasn't digged deep enough into peterson because peterson dispises the idea of ideology period. One example of why he isn't doing a fair critique in my opinion

@@pradeep2662 I would like to think about your comment,but I need a question to be answered first: How is life not a "do or die thing" if you want to be a functioning part of humanity ? What's your take on that

@@pradeep2662 or: how is he wrong on that specific aspect

@@camefromice Look at it relatively, with advancements made in women's lives. Either everyone is oppressed in some area and are powerful in the other or everyone's equally powerful/vulnerable. My point isnt even that deep. Women - sit at home, thats good and sit in the office thats good too. Men - one narrow path, either youre in it or youre doomed. Now I understand men need to take the civilization forward and all that stuff but you gotta adapt to the present day. Keeping men's lives in 80s and bringing women's to 2020 is bad for the society. My point is that you gotta the rock that changes the flow of water, not the one that goes with the flow. Peterson wants people to accept and confirm to pre- women's rights era while being pro women. Im not against women getting more social benefits than men but you just dont corner men like that. It makes a world of difference mentally, if you feel like you have a choice but still chose to chase success. For that reason, men in Scandinavia are probably much happier in their daily life than men anywhere else. His speeches might be effective in very backward countries but it doesnt make sense to school men like that in the west. What if a guy gets bossed around by his lady boss at work? can we still come home to his girlfriend with a traditional mindset ? Or hes supposed to have a traditional mindset only while being a corporate slave and turn the "compatible with modern women" switch on before coming home? A lot has changed in the last 30 years and you either adapt or you stay confused. Simply put, he just isolates the situation and talks about it conveniently without addressing all the things related or imp-acted. Most men dont give a f about other men so what I said would never get as much of a traction as his easy and outdated theories.

Pretty much, his arrogance and self importance almost always gives him away. Borderline narcissistic behaviour.

@ Yep, I've watched at least 30 of his talks and debates. One example is his refutation of the concept of "white privilege" as Marxist and post-modern. I hate post-modernism myself, but anyone with even an inkling of historical knowledge would know that, in the western world, "white privilege" is not an abstract, post-modern concept but a historical reality that has shaped the modern western world. That is one of many examples.

@@charleshatt1281 The existence of previous discrimination doesn’t prove the existence of a current WP. WP as I understand it, it is a systemic advantage that every single white enjoys over other minorities. But there is a refutation in the fact in many structural elements, Asian -Americans have, by every metric, a remarkably higher income and standard of living. You have to account for the fact that those people grew up not in our current environment, where the stereotype is of intellectual proficiency and excellence, the did decades ago, when the archetypes of Asians were of mockery and negligible cartoonish individuals. If they prospered in that context, it is a proof that the fairness of the system allows people to prosper even in conditions of bad social perception by the white majority. Otherwise they would have been systematically punished resulting in a lower hierarchical position. White privilege it is actually a concept from the “neo-Marxists”. Marx developed the idea of the worker being oppressed, either he admitted or not. And extended the guilt of the unfairness to the entire upper class. White privilege is an extended guilt of the entire ethnic group, because everyone is supposed to have it. The feminism uses the same structure. They use the axiom that if the representation is not equal to the demographic proportion it is irrefutable proof of discrimination. That is nonsense. Men and women choose different occupations and the more egalitarian the country more polarized the differences. They perpetuate the false 50% 50% as equality when we do know that besides the difference in choices, we have a difference in the standard deviation of IQ e.g, and many other traits. www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patriarchy-paradox-how-equality-reinforces-stereotypes-96cx2bsrp www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variability_hypothesis www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886913003036 Having the most talented individuals and the most defective. That’s is why the proportion of e.g chess masters is 1627 to 32, and rarely you see a woman among the first 100 players. Overrepresentation does not mean discrimination. I mention feminism and how they hide proven scientific facts because they need that oppression narrative to be permanent. The Genders studies generalized this toxic interpretation of reality to race as well in the African American studies. All from the same faculties. www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2018/10/06/another-set-of-fake-papers-takes-aim-at-social-sciences-nether-regions www.vox.com/2018/10/15/17951492/grievance-studies-sokal-squared-hoax The structural problems of the black community have way more relation to the lack of structure of the family, when in the 50s they had 70% of children born within wedlock, and today is the other way around. That is the greatest predictor of stability and lack of problems with the law. I will not state why (because science does not have conclusive evidence), but there is an IQ gap in the black community respect to the rest; which society is working on, but that makes impossible to occupy the same proportion of technical jobs in relation to the demographics- Jews have the same problem. They are 0,2% of the population of the world and have 22% of ALL Nobel prizes and 27% of ALL Fields medals with a genocide in between. The scientific community and the government are working in decreasing the gap (as it has been the case through the last century) but the curve decays exponentially and that makes the proportion decrease dramatically (I leave you an article). IQ doesn’t define a person but has a high correlation with financial success and particularly occupation and visibility in positions of power in society. www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/6/15/15797120/race-black-white-iq-response-critics greyenlightenment.com/iq-and-morality-iq-and-job-performance/ Besides that, you have an absurd cultural differentiation. In Europe blacks do not talk differently neither their talk of systemic oppression. Mixed people are not subjected to the ridiculous one drop rule, that makes impossible to break the racial divide (which is artificial because blacks have at least 30% of European DNA and 21% of whites too, so scientifically it is referred just as populations, not races.). In Europe people do not ask someone’s race, that would be rude. The result is people do not feel they are talking to a “foreigner” which might happen in many cases. There is a huge amount of problems, and many are probably due to the historical development, but from the most critical and devastating parameters non implies a white oppression of blacks, and certainly there is evidence that although racism exists, it is by no means the controlling factor (I really hope you don’t see this as some kind of “eugenics” argument, because the article I posted explains that we have reasons to believe we can continue decreasing the gap, but it is impossible to have people working in neurosurgery and aerospace engineering or finance in the same proportions to the demographics because the curve has an exponential drop to the most extreme cases. I also must point out that an average cannot be used to predict an individual location in the curve, because it is mathematically irrational (the properties of a statistical distribution do not pass to the individuals), but it explains the positions structure of the groups as we see it. The neo Marxist claim is attached to a fallacy, that is the demographic representation, or as they call it “intersectionality”, which cannot happen in a heterogeneous population. We could develop better metrics to eliminate bias, but we cannot extend the guilt to groups, because as it is wrong to blame Muslims because some are terrorists, we cannot blame the entire ethnic group of “whites” for cases that do not have the weight that produces the inequality (which in the end is just overrepresentation, most people are mediocre, regardless of their “race”) .

lol what a great argument hhh

"how seriously he takes himself" is really just your own judgment. We could make that judgment about nearly all public figures, like... Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, for example. JBP takes the issues he speaks on seriously. He believes a real crisis is going on and addresses it forcefully... just as forcefully as most feminists address the issues they think are important. We can call anyone who stands up for what they believe in as "narcisstic" and "self important" and "takes himself too seriously".

Agreed.

100%, he is an angry snivelling man with a god complex

You may have a good point ! But proof read your text , I’m not really sure what your talking about , I’m not sure you do either

What a heartless things to say, but that's the internet for ya.People love to try to hurt others for a different take on things. Take a hike! What you think means nothing to me. @@glenalguire6960

But by contending with political ideologies, and in so doing demonstrating your own, do you not become political? Even if Jordan took a position that was strictly not imbedded in any particular ideology (e.g. "We are living in a Simulation"), it would, by its opposition to the political, become political, regardless of his intent.

WTHFX is he demonstrating political ideologies or philosophical ideologies that happen to overlap with many peoples political ideologies as my Socrates example should have highlighted.

😂😂😂

@@TheDcraft Well if it overlaps with many people's political ideologies, and many people become mobilized because of it, he's a political figure whether he sees it or not.

12345nadine public opinion has no bearing on what he chooses to identify as nor should it.

it ain't easy being green

He really does sound like Kermit doesn't he🤣🤣🤣

and Winnie the Pooh... "The Tao of Pooh" is a good book.

I was listening to something where it started playing of a clip of him speaking and I honestly though that person speaking before started "doing a voice" or something.

Omg. Thought i was the only one who thought that. Lol

Religion had a bad role in humanity history. Not a positive one. Population control.

"We live in a generation without fathers" - Either this is more Poppa Lobster rhetoric or you got some s'plaining to do.

I like Peterson. I don't agree with much of what he says but there are a few things I really like about him. Overall I agree with you and Pakman as well.

I think Peterson is far more dangerous than you may realize - it's really important to undermine and defeat a griffter and charlatan like him.

i think both sides have a points. i don't believe everything Peterson say's however i also think he has a point. TBH i think some issues we are talking about, we shouldn't be talking about as it brings light to these issues and who's to say when an issue is fixed.. the problem with humanity i always find is we either over do it or not enough!! the key for most things is moderation in moderation.... we never seem to reach that IMO, also a point you made up of pererson fans being rowdy or attacking people (not sure if you used that word) but that's on both sides of the fence.... oh and greeting from Australia mate!

First off: yes, great self-awareness, Jonesy! Second: I think to see Peterson's weaknesses is quite hard, especially cause they lay in where he refuses to speak. He won't align himself with the right, but he sure as hell won't criticise them... unless asked point-blank, when he'll say he doesn't like extreme right wing people. But with the amount of intellectual dishonesty we see on all sides of the spectrum, it's telling that he almost exclusively focusses on one side. His arguments are often strong (though often not as strong as presented!), but it's really his silences that show his bias and allegiance. Friendly greetings from an ex-JP fan

Kinda sucks that Peterson isn't a conservative then.

Wietse op de Weegh What would you say he is then?

@@naveed210 A classic English liberal. Individual freedom is the core value.

Wietse op de Weegh that’s nothing new then. That message has been drummed into society for the past 40-50 years. He’s just an LOA coach at the end of the day. His core message is; “there’s a bunch of people who are better operators than you, I’ll smarted you up. If your neighbour’s struggling, don’t worry as long as you’re ok. Leave those sensitive overly compassionate lefties to worry about that.” Man’s a psychopath.

@@naveed210 That's so far from what he actually thinks that it's painful to read. He has never said anything that's even remotely close to that. His entire philosophy is based on making the most out of yourself to eliviate some potential suffering for the people you hold dear. He says exactly the opposite of just letting your neighbour suffer. He only implies that if you can't get your own life in order, the odds that your goodhearted attempts to help your neighbour will backfire are very large. His core message is not "there are people better than you and I'll smart you up" He says "There are an infinite amount of creative endeavours and they each have a dominance hierarchy. Find the hierarchy in which you can excell". Als the 'Classic English liberal' is not something of the last 40-50 years. It's the embodiment of 200 year old enlightenment values.

Really? I'm from Venezuela and that is funny xD

Colony Three lmao that doesn’t sound political at all 😂

He is not wrong.

SnowballWar Really? Because what shocks me most is that Peterson lives in Canada, where nearly all of Bernie’s platform is already implemented: universal healthcare, strong social safety net, paid medical and family leave, paid vacation time by law, a higher minimum wage, etc. and yet, astoundingly, Canada hasn’t turned into Venezuela. How come?

@@MrGrass97 because it's not a socialist country. It's a capitalist country with some socialist policies.

😂😂 i would love to hear more of what u have to say , amazing word play

I think you nailed it…well done.

Well said

Sounds like your talking about hasanabi

@@helmetmcbarin ?

Sarcasm aside (or at least from what I’m interpreting from you) I will give you props for acknowledging you being triggered

Make sure Peterson's shoes are well shoe shined.

@@PapaSmurf11182nd I don’t think he is triggered, who would be?

Chad 😂👌

@Stefan Slade he's a politcal commentator people get mad not his fault

@Stefan Slade Given the alternative is to moderate so heavily as to border censorship, i apreceate the detractors. In person settings receive much more respect and get more smooth moderation than digitally possible.

You’d be surprised at how logical progressivism can be. There’s a lot of media that paint conservatives and progressives as over-emotional and aggressive people, when there are actually people from either side that are very logical. I’m more left-leaning so obviously I’ll believe the left is a little more logical though.

Totally agree, subscribe is what I did.

He made a good point when he said to investigate and learn from the genius that Jordan Peterson learned from.

@Greg Boyce (Horse shaman) he has learned more than you will, old little bastard

It's all the same thing when you step outside thevbos and look at it.

the personal is political

Add history to it

yes they are linked so what? what does it mean?

@@Teilnehmer Regarding the accusation that he is a political figure. Having an ideology makes him a politician? Ok, then I suppose everyone is a politician?

What a great comment and if only all the JP fanboys thought like you.

@@whitneyanders5945 we did end up breaking up anyway lmao, but yeah, never be loyal to anyone or anything except God

I'm sorry you broke up but to be honest as a woman if my boyfriend were to listen and admire Jordan Peterson I would break up with him too. Coz it's a very thin line to him becoming a mysogynist. Im sorry if this baffles you but as a woman I don't see much difference between Andrew tate and Jordan Peterson. I certainly think he is an authoritarian.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FmH7JUeVQb8.html

Especially if you criticized him in the context of his views on women. Which is really the core of Peterson's thinking -- this idea of the feminine representing chaos and the masculine representing order. Everything else he talks about is ancillary. I don't know anything about his history or personal life, but he's a guy who very much sees masculinity as under threat. And because his identity is completely intertwined with his masculinity, that threat is existential. It's no mistake that most of his fans are young men. They have two kinds of women in their lives: Their mothers, who tell them what to do; and pretty girls, who tell them what they can't do. They have all sorts of negative emotions around women: Fear, confusion, humiliation. And instead of telling them they need to grow into more mature relationships with women, Peterson tells them those emotions are valid and represent something society is hiding from them. Leftists are subverting some natural hierarchy, and if they could only restore that hierarchy, then women would no longer have power over them. That's the thinking of a Peterson fan in a nutshell. Even the ones who don't consciously realize it.

@@Revelwoodie I suspect his expert understanding of sociopathology comes from personal experience.

@@Revelwoodie he doesn't realize what he is speaking is going to be underestimated by some of his fans I guess.

@@Revelwoodie You are not understanding him well then. Those are psychological terms, or to be more precise, old psychological terms that Jung was using very often. It's symbolical more actually. Chaos is not any worse or better from order, they are interconnected. And both men and women have both qualities. Saying that "feminine is chaos" does not translates into "women are chaos".

But i can see that much of his fans could be interpreting him wrong as you do because of lack of background knowledge behind the words he is saying and that could potentially lead to problems.

wow that quite a unique experience

Why would you gag though

Notice Peterson fanbois all beg the question, classic narcissistic gaslighting. "You mean being a self absorbed fascist is bad? Prove it" *ugh*

you're so right. said, in a nut shell' what i've been 'feeling' for years. at last i have some closure... and a link i can send others instead of stumbling around saying " well ... yeah ... but don't you think something is kinda ...'off'?

That sounds like something a David Pakman fanboy would say.

Well like, what do you disagree with and why didn't you do that originally? I feel as if many ppl say "oh I disagree with much of what he says" without saying what they actually disagree with.

My brother has been a drug addict since he was a teenager. He never finished high school, grew up, moved on, and had a family. For years and years, he sat and lived off of our mother and in that time period from 17-34 years of age had MAYBE three jobs. None lasted very long an he was even arrested for stealing from one. Anyways, back in November my mom wasn't helping him and he basically had no choice but to go to treatment or the shelter. Well, he choose treatment. So far he has done great and I am very proud and happy for him. However, he's always known I'm a strong liberal. We've always just agreed to disagree. Then all of the sudden, he starts telling me he's a Democrat. He said he couldn't stand Trump and would try to engage me in political conversations that always bashed Democrats for strange reasons in my mind, but I just kept asking him to quit trying to discuss it with me. This week though has been particularly bad. He started on his "abortion is murder" tangent and started regurgitating old, flawed Ben Shapiro arguments on me and I called him out and told him to quit trolling me, I have two kids, am very sick, and am under enough stress. I don't want to argue. There is no way I am going to agree with him. I am 37 and voted for Gore the year I turned 18! I'm the liberal in the family always have been and everyone knows it, but I don't discuss it with those that don't agree with me. Anyway, when I finally got annoyed and asked him to stop, he flipped a lid!!!😠 He started calling me horrible names, said he was "cutting off communication with me because I am deranged", he twisted things I had said and called me a racist for being pro choice? It really hurt my feelings. I may have shot a few blows back, but NO name calling and NO low blows. Anyways, I remembered he had called me earlier in the day and told me he had tickets to an upcoming Jordan Peterson event and asked if my husband would like to go with him because he was also taking my mom and younger brother. I finally got around to finding out who the heck this JP is and everything is making so much sense now. Plus, he lied to my mom and said he's not political, just a motivational speaker that was responsible for my brother getting clean. Now, I am so upset that my entire family will be brainwashed AND I really do love my brother and don't want to fight with him! I just appreciated your comment and thought you might have some advice for dealing with people in this. If not, anyone feel free to let me know your thoughts on the best thing for me to do! Everything is obviously delicate with recovery. The upsetting thing is that my brother is actually a very smart guy. I am just blown away by how he can be so fooled by this man. I also don't like the manipulation of "we are on the same side here", and then proceeded to follow it up with either made-up nonsense or obscure strange things certain liberals have said. Oh well, if anyone made it through that, thanks. If not, it was cathartic none the less! 😂

@@GPlusZGaming Alison you should really learn to split up your paragraphs more. Stream-of-thought is cool and all, and authentic, but it makes it really hard to read something that long lol. Split it into like four paragraphs and the odds of someone actually making it through rather than giving up because their eyes were drifting between lines as opposed to them not caring becomes better. Regarding Fish's split with Peterson (if you'd call it that even); what is really ironic about that is that Peterson argues that exact thing that Pakman is here, that you shouldn't take anyone at face value, and you shouldn't adopt someone's entire philosophy, as big of a genius Jung was and how much Peterson admires him, I highly doubt he adopted 100 % of the man's character. Yet a lot of Peterson fans does pretty much that...

@@Sacremas Okay, good suggestion. I am actually an educated writer, but didn't realize that internet comments were supposed to be structured. It makes sense now that you say it! I guess I just don't normally write super long ones and hadn't thought about it. 😂 Anyways, I appreciate your suggestion and will start separating paragraphs! Thanks! 😊

Alison Self Wow, that is quite the story. Thanks for sharing!! It’s terrible that your brother can’t seem to withdraw a bit from his devotion to Peterson. I like Peterson myself...though I agree with nearly all the critiques delivered in this video. The self help stuff is obvious, but he delivers it in a way that inspires one to actually take action. He’s helped me immensely overcome some pretty bad heartbreak. Nonetheless, I feel for you because I know how persuasive his ideas are-if you aren’t already equipped with a certain amount of critical thinking to start with, the ideas can sweep you in unchallenged. It’s definitely helpful I think to be familiar with other thinkers: Jonathan Haidt, Sam Harris, Richard Wolff...

I agree. The dislike bar, to me, seems to prove the point Pakman was trying to make---the point that a significant portion of Peterson's fan base are zealous followers.

​@@andrewpowell3723 It's not like people can dislike Pakman's video for any other reason, than being a " zealous follower" ... right? I, personally, disliked it, because I don't think, that "I am not going to address your arguments... now, but your fans are awful and should probably read some other psychologist, because you are just wrong about stuff." is good criticism. I have liked some coherent criticisms of Peterson (e.g. videos by "Rationality Rules") but that wasn't it, in my opinion.

Contrapoints and Philosophy Tube have also done really good critiques.

I’m not so sure. Seems like you can make these same comments about anyone, just change Jordan Peterson to...Elon Musk, or...The View...or David Pakman. Would be the generically voiced video.

This video was more a criticism of celebrity culture than of Peterson so if this is the best criticism you've seen of him the man must be made of teflon.

The problem is he doesn’t clearly state where he sits on the political spectrum. I have my suspicions whether he’s a real conservative and has decided to adopt the views he espouses because that’s where the money is and it’s trendy to bash the left who want social justice. I’d go further and say it’s too generous to even speak of him in political terms. At the end of the day he’s a law of attraction coach. His basic message is “take care of yourself, and if there’s other troubling stuff in society, don’t bother as long as you’ve got your own life in order.” That’s nothing new and we have plenty of that in society as it is.

@@naveed210 “take care of yourself, and if there’s other troubling stuff in society, don’t bother as long as you’ve got your own life in order.” - That is not at all what he says, from what I've seen he just encourages to people not to be political activists as a substitute for some void of meaning in their life.

Redbanana and if you think that’s even remotely helpful, you’re a complete idiot. Western politics is in a mess, capitalism is on steroids, billionaires extract money from the system and avoid taxes, he even encourages tax dodging in 1 video, he’s a complete fraud. Along with Shapiro and Murray, these guys are pseudo conservatives.

Beethoven never cleaned his room. He said it would destroy his concentration.

Sounds more like Acid than Mushrooms, but fair enough either way

🦞🦂🦞🦂🦞🦂🦞🦂🦞

Well fans are you are in minority, unfortunately. Every time I questioned what Peterson said under one of political videos on RU-vid I got such intense, aggressive response. Majority of people would immediately jump to insults. Going through the comments section itself it sometimes scary itself, the contempt towards those who debate Peterson is very apparent. The language itself is very combative like, set for confrontation and fight.

@@antygona-iq8ew very true, but That is what anonimity of internet does. In real life those people most likely wouldn’t react That Sharp. Its like gaming community automatically Gets more toxic. Eye contact and physicality is essential for empathy.

@@wescuijpers8946 Bingo

Makes sense.

I agree that most JBP fans attack because his detractors are usually deceptive and dishonest in their criticisms. Where Pakman goes wrong is trying to make the connection that JBP is a cult leader. They usually agree with what he says because he's fairly consistent. But when he says something with which they disagree, most don't hold back. Example? His tweet about the Kavanaugh SCOTUS controversy. He was destroyed by his fans to the point he considered deleting his Twitter account. JBP flirts with politics, but only because EVERYTHING anyone cares about has become political. For anyone paying attention, it is pretty obvious that he is liberal at heart, but doesn't have a home on the left because he isn't a progressive SJW. Again, the Kavanaugh remark was a very liberal response.

Deadeyed, that's not what he meant. Imo Bernie's ideas were absolutely awful, to the point that for different motivations, very bad people could have the same ideas as him. BUT, looking at Bernie he seems like a swell guy at heart, your stereotypical nice old grandpa man. His ideas just don't hold any water.

"His ideas just don't hold any water." Most of his ideas are simply copied from existing systems that work better than ours, but are considered radical in the U.S. because we've lost our collective minds (i.e. the center is now considered the left). But if you get your news from conservative social media you'll be inclined to mangle logic in a haphazard soup consisting of words like "socialism," "stealing," "Stalin," and "Venezuela." In which case, there's probably nothing I can say that you'll find persuasive. One may as well try to convince a caveman that the stars are giant spheres of fusing hydrogen (as opposed to distant campfires in the sky).

Except socialism literally never works. >inb4 "my variant of socialism works great" "not real socialism"

He's an expert at selling his obscurantism as nuance, which makes it super annoying for anyone to argue against. But it is a really convenient when you want to build a large internet following, since everyone can just tell themselfs that what he "actually ment" just happens to be their own personal point of view. Centrists: "People who say Jordan Peterson is a bigot just take him out of context." Actual Nazis: "I love everything you say, Mr Peterson, but what exactly is your view on the jewish question?"* *Note: Not implying anything here, the amount of people who regularly ask this sort of questions during his talks and livestreams is surely entirely coincidental.

Reminds me of when he answers a question and doesn't explain it, instead saying "It's very complex but that's just how it is." Bullshit.

i dont know what you are saying but i know it doesnt make sense and is purposefully unclear , guilt by association ???? in a sentence whats your point ?

@Brotlowsky: Leftists: "Nazi!" "Bigot!" "*phobe!" "Racist!" "You're a white male!"

@@chrimony who here has said anything about white men?

Well he doesn't have much in the way of substance.

@@RayLRhodes Neither do you.

Watching a live human speaker and not being affected by their delivery is impossible. Our brain is constantly analyzing others based on their non verbal cues

So he doesn't support hierarchies?

@@DogsOnAcid hierarches are not inherently a right wing thing.

@@Biggiiful but i mean that does not mean it's not a part of the right-wing political viewpoints right? Can you speak more about this topic because i'm quite new on politic and needing some helps.

@@linhviethoang This is both ultimately a really complicated thing and a very simple thing. Hierarchies are purely a natural phenomenon. Hierarchies can be both good and bad. We need them, or nothing would get done. But left unchecked, they can become tyrannical. Please reply to me so I get a notification to remind me to post you a link to better explanations.

the first part was less about him and about his fanbase where any celeb has only so much control over. The second one is that he ain't the only thing in the ethical and philosophical sphere and we should draw conclusions from different things. based vider

he basically says a lot of times that he "may be talking bulshit"

@@kevinthiago413 sorry don’t understand your comment

Yeah but see that’s the thing Peterson’s self help stuff can be found out anywhere I think it’s just his delivery of these universal concepts that people are so inspired I mean many of the things he talks about has been around forever especially in terms of men’s health it’s nothing new like David said. I think it’s just the controversy that attracts people to him and I’m just not one of those types of people so that’s maybe why I’m not in awe of his philosophies

@@morsmordre3 some of it is for sure a lot of is grounded in his own research and work on the big 5 personality theory . I Don’t find much of what he says particularly controversial