What i like about it is that they can easily come up with a reason for the Shatterverse characters and worlds being brought back in the comics or even the games. (I already headcanon it to take place after Colors but before Forces so timeline inconsistencies no longer bother me)
I see no pros to this. Mainstream comics are dying, so if they bring these characters into the games out of nowhere, people won't know who they are without extensive homework. Dialogue in Frontiers implies that nothing from IDW has happened in universe, and that the last major event was Forces. Plus, the games won't bend to extended media, so if the comic goes somewhere the games can't follow, they will be forced to course correct and ruin any potential storytelling. Remember what happened to Sonic Prime? That was declared canon, and because it had to abide by the games' timeline, it had to be reset and rendered moot, meaning nothing mattered. Extended media should stay it's own thing.
Honestly, if characters like Tangle and Whisper _had_ to appear in the games, I'd prefer them to be as either Easter Eggs or as bonus characters with no direct bearing on the main plot. I'd love to see them appear in the Mario & Sonic games ala Sticks' appearance in Rio.
Ehh.... I'd say that for sticks being just a cameo. But tangle and sticks play such huge roles in idw they are basically fleshed out characters especially whisper. While future games would have to explain the sudden appearance they'd make great addition to cast as the new entry of characters and villians are rather promising
My main problem is how they'll just randomly insert characters with barely any explanation, like one day we'll see Sage just appear and the writers will already assume you know her or Tangle & Whisper will show up in a game as key parts to the story with no many people knowing who they are *also I recognized that TTC uniform immediately, keep up the good work brother* 🙏
Yea, thats my main reason for making my other recent video, explaining all of the new idw characters. Very high chance we'll see them in the games with little explanation about their origins and personality. But we will see.
That's _exactly_ my problem... though if they "adapt the Metal Virus arc", that could be a way to organically introduce characters to the game-only audience. Probably. For the most part, _I'm_ part of the game-only audience, so if those characters weren't part of that arc...
A big problem in my mind with Ian Flynn becoming the primary writer of the games is that he's on record as "not seeing the point of having multiple universes". Ian, buddy, that's how I was at one point, only to recognize inconsistencies that could _only_ be explained by that. Granted, this was long before IDW or Prime were things, but that still highlights what that point _is:_ to allow freedom to tell a wider variety of stories about the Blue Blur _without_ cheapening any of them. If you insist they're all the same universe, they all must fit in the same timeline, and the characterizations and events _must_ line up exactly. The fact that he doesn't _get_ that tells me that while he can create great stories for _one_ canon (as he's had for both his Archie and IDW runs), putting him in charge of _multiple_ will lead to him inadvertently destroying all of them by trying to mash them together. Kind of like how, if you try to "solve" multiple jigsaw puzzles as if they were one, you'll ruin the pieces (unless the company reuses the exact same layout of course).
To be fair people are getting sick of multiverse stories of late. Look at Marvel and comics. I don’t mind seeing things like Sonic Boom for the Blur Blue, but I like to see a consistent storyline for Sonic for a while. Sonic fans are divided because there’s “too many” different gameplay styles and stories. Like the Archie vs Game Sonic with characters and stories. It’s kinda tiresome.
@viruschris3160 The issue with Marvel isn't the multiple worlds, but the woke that ran rampant for so long. And if fans of Sonic really are tired of multiple worlds (I'd argue otherwise), the answer is not to smash them all together, but to drop some of them.
@@ShadwSonic Sonic Prime should be it’s own universe/timeline. No one asked it to be connected to the games and SEGA or whoever decided to merge them. I accept the IDW comics and Sonic games sharing the same timeline. I’m fine with that. But things like Prime, Boom, whatever don’t need to be “canon” to the main universe. Right now even the lore of Sonic is a mess because SEGA didn’t care enough to keep every thing consistent like they said Sonic’s world and the Human world were separate and then back pedaled saying they share the same world when it was initially in the same world. It’s frustrating keeping track of everything in lore.
I feel like when it comes to that I cant help but think about sonic generations or sonic prime. Idw and mainline sonic merging as one makes sense. Especially since idw is treading on the same path as the official canon whilst allowing different stories to be made. But prime being canon for that short period of time, shadows bad writing, and the timeline split being unconformed which forces mania and superstars along side any classic sonic projects to fit in one continous time-line is such a bad idea
There'll come a day where we'll reach a Transformers Marvel US/UK breaking point where the games and comics can't coexist in canon. It just takes one little continuity snarl and chaos happens. Plus handcuffing yourself to the games is a little too restricting on what you could do since you can't change the status quo, can't make any significant lore changes that others will ignore and this is the comic industry; a large pool of clashing egos, headcanons and self-importance. Why do you think we got Spider-Man One More Day?
I'm alright with the IDW comics being canon, it opens the doors for characters like Tangle and Whisper appearing in the mainline games. Plus, IDW being canon is much more plausible than Prime being canon
Flynn stated that if Tangle is gonna be in the games she has to be appear as a new character so basically like a character and events with different Adapting methods
i mostly hate the idea of sonic prime being canon to the games because it makes VS. Debators from the Death Battle side think Sonic is powerful enough to create dimensions & assumes Mario will lose, That rivalry debate has driven me nuts for a couple of years.
I'm up for the idea of the two being Semi-Canon to each other. They don't have to stick 100% but also unlike Archie which basically ignored Sonic games except for when Sega or a character's popularity more or less forced them to. But like the games can nod to the Metal Virus but have Shadow never get infected or just infected later on. The Sequence of events, is always an important detail that can easily be changed that has huge implications and can shift tones easily. Which BTW doing things like that is also the best way to conduct retcons since it eases fans and the writing into the new line of thinking rather than just abruptly changing everything which then would allow both the comics and games to gradually retcon some minor mistakes or details, subtly shift Cream to a older age so she can adventure, recontextualize Sonic and Amy, or phase Trip into other past adventures as someone in the background etc.
A change that could also be made via a game is Starline's death, you play as Sonic in Eggman City, fighting only to find Starline disassembling Surge, expressing his disappointment and instead Sonic saves her from Starline but in the fight causing the collapse that killed Starline and dropped Surge and Starline's glove into the same place. A minor change but explains why Surge has him in her head criticizing her every move despite her lack of any respect or fear for his character.
They have been used in the mobile games of Sonic so it is a start. Having someone like Surge who is arrogant than Sonic, but with elections powers. I mean if they were to slowly use them as maybe background characters in the mainstream games and maybe even a single level or two helping Sonic or stopping his progress due to their actions, then I can get behind them being in mainstream cannon more.
As much as I like these things, I would rather the comics and Prime stay separate. If they aren’t going to actually crossover properly, there’s no point in them being canon. Like Prime. The games are canon to the show, sure, as the backbone of its existence. Otherwise, what does the show contribute to the game continuity? Literally nothing. You don’t even know where it takes place in the timeline. There are contradictions in portrayals and even in flashbacks. Minor details, but when you were saying, something is the same continuity, you would think you would want to make it accurate. There was one flashback that was super accurate and that was great. But the rest were a little off. I can place that show somewhere in the timeline. But I have no idea if the creators really thought that deep into it or if it just works out that way. The story of the show is literally just some fun idea they had. The games have a specific agenda, but the agenda of the show has a different purpose. And that’s my issue with the comics. While they are more in line, they are an ongoing series of stories. It would be cool to tell stories that happened between the games. But the more they tell, the bigger the gap between games become. Not only that, but in the games, they rotate between major players all the time. So in the comics, it would make sense to do the same regardless of adding a bunch of original characters. Instead, they touch base every so often and make these new characters part of the usual crew. Except they never appear in any of the games so far. So they either need to start, or they need to spread out their appearances in the comics. Or both. Overlap properly. Make the stories between games, shorter, And even show events that happened at the same time as some of the games. You can do that by covering characters you didn’t get to spend time with those games. For example, had the comics taken place before Forces, they could have covered Shadow’s experience while he was “missing” and thought to be working with Eggman. Right now, they need to stop adding stories that come before Frontiers and start showing stories of that take place at the Same time as the game with characters that weren’t in that title. And then move onto events that take place after. Also, stop just writing a series of stories just because you have cool ideas. As fun as that is for the audience, that’s best left to a comic series that is its own continuity. If you are connected to the games, then the stories need to put in the effort of collaborating with the direction the games are going. Also, it’s hard to picture sonic in some games having already argued with shadow the way he did in the comics. Every time you see the character in an installment, the previous installments shape the way you see the character in the next one.
The way I see it, the result of this debate mainly hinders on how Sega handles the story and lore of Sonic going into their next big game, I kinda give frontiers a pass for all its references from pass games and other media because they want to make it clear how things are going to be moving forward, with inter connectivity between games and other media, but I hope they don’t do this again in the future. The only real problem I can potentially see is that Sega doesn’t fully go through with this plan. We have seen before with previous games that Sega and Sonic team have a tendency of not going all the way into their vision, one of the main issues people had with forces is that it felt like a game that had a lot of potential but Sega didn’t go all in on it, so we ended up getting a half baked game with a story and gameplay that didn’t try hard enough. If Sega wants to go through with this merging of media and lore then they have to put their foot fully through the door. So in the next main game whether it be Frontiers 2 or some other major game down the line, Sega needs to show that they are fully committed to creating a consistent lore and story
It’d be cool if we got a metal virus Survival game simillar to like dragon ball the breakers where you gotta do certain objectives and wait for the restoration shuttle to arrive or something like that
@@Jords2good yeah but instead you can actually have more species and customize the height and clothes and hairstyles and muzzle and tail and stuff like how other games do it
My only problem with idw being canon is that the deadly six are alive Because in lava mountain instead of jumping away they disappear in a puff of smoke
In my personal opinion I believe that IDW events should be Canon but certain characters within those events shouldn’t be actually canon . Kinda like Dragonball super is anime and manga where say for example in the manga of Dragon Ball super superhero Gohan took out cell max all. By himself with a special beam cannon but in the manga it to goten and trunks to help out. I think it’s a good weather like that I think I can kind of work but still they still need to fix up a couple things
TBH I'm fine with the IDW comics being canon, characters like Tangle, Whisper, Jewel, Belle, Lanolin, Rough and Tumble, Mimic, Clutch and Surge and Kit would really work and I got a feeling that if Dr. Starline would to return, Sega would have Sonic Frontiers 2 see Dr. Starline as the big bad for the game. Sonic Prime on where it fits is confusion, see the fallout arc take place after Sonic Forces, I think Sonic Prime takes place after Sonic Lost World as Sonic acts like how he did in the "Meta Era" and the ending of that show is like Sonic 06, I like Sonic Prime but Netflix had to make it short for some reason, I felt like it could be worse *cough Pre-Super-Genesis-Wave Archie being cannon cough*. Sega tired to have a connected canon Sonic Boom (being how they went all in with Sonic Boom) and how the Comics and the show connect to the games but We know what happened to Sonic Boom, it was so bad that Ian Flynn wanted Sticks to appear after the battle for Angel Island but Sega-ATLUS said no, now that their stupid mandates have lifted and Sticks being name dropped in the English dub of Sonic Frontiers, I got a feeling We could see Sticks in the Comics and Games. We know the movies are going to be it's own thing, but the only con I can see with IDW being canon is that they have to work with Sega-ATLUS to make them connected to the games.
Genuinely only a few things in IDW that are anywhere near good. Tangle, whisper, Surge, Kitsunami, Mecha Sonic confirmed to speak like Cooler from dbz, and Silver's happy ending. Legit nothing else.
Metal virus was hot garbage, and yes I know it was recycled from what was going to happen in Archie. It'd have been garbage there as well, it completely butchered the shit out of shadow, genuinely making him some mental reject and forgeting Shadow is LITERALLY immune to virus's and ailments. Starline's only impact worth noting is commiting crimes against nature to make Surge and Kit, then proceeding to die. Lanolin acts like she wants to be an archie character without the archie flair. Mr Tinker was a complete waste only existing to create a character solely to give mental trauma to. And honestly, IDW Shadow all around is the *LITERAL* worst adaptation of him, and I'm including Shadow 05 and Forces in the debate.
Not to mention Sonic himself being bland in IDW, He's just some paragon of good, which literaly is not what Sonic as a character reprresents. It's like we're getting Sonic's version of Funimation DBZ Goku, who act's like some superman ass character.
I always wanted IDW to be "semi-canon" or canon in spirit. That is, instead of of being hard canon to the games, the games would use the comics as "inspiration" to tell the same stories in their own way, kind of like the SA1&2 arcs in Sonic X. Properly establish the new characters for this universe instead of plopping them in and saying, "Oh yeah, they've ALWAYS been here." Show us these important events in games instead of casually mentioning they happened offscreen. Then if they ever want to use characters with crucial backstory, they won't have to have Sonic say, "Hey Lois, remember that time..." and lead into some contrived flashback.
I feel that with IDW being Cannon there has to be like another source to figure out the lore besides the comics like maybe an animated series or a game adaptation of the comics
Random hot take, Ian Flynn's statement that rings are a gameplay mechanic is stupid and has been contradicting multiple times throughout the Sonic franchise, no hate on Ian Flynn though,👍
They did actually sneak a ring into Amy and Knuckles' adventure on Angel Island in #62: In the games, the pulley rings in Marble Garden are white and blue. In the comic, it looks like your standard golden ring.
eh. i love that its canon. its the reason i even started reading and caring was because sega made it canon,just like with prime, the cons you mentioned are sorta valid bit kinda small and not that important, like the plot holes and inconsistent characters which already exist, and the lore is still easy to follow anyway and i greatly disagree with the " not as much freedom" part. they still have a ton of freedom, look at metal virus and the eggperial city arc
I only see this as a positive! For years, i felt the gap in-between the games could show more stories and development for the characters through actual canonical comics and animation, and IDW directly adresses that. We're in 2024, you can easily learn about the comics through the Internet, especially with the excellent analysis and comic dubs present here on RU-vid. Things like Tailstube, Encyclospeedia, Twitter Takeovers are already clearing things up in a digestible and fun way(Like humans being on continents while "mobians" are on islands, and GUN being disbanded by Eggman in the war) and let's be honest, inconsistencies always were present since the beginning so if anything, now we are getting concrete answers. The new characters are amazing and I'd love to either have them as NPCs or even playable in the future, and the way the old guard has grown and interact with eachother makes me so happy. In the end, I'm 100% onboard, i don't and will not understand people's concerns, and if it ends up being cut short in the future, well, life goes on with people like me having gotten what we dreamed off.
I really hate the Sonic fanbase sometimes. I remember when Sonic Colors came out and everyone was talking about how it was the best Sonic game ever and now apparently it's the worst and that's how everyone always thought it was apparently. How does that relate to what you said? Well, I remember when they first announced that Ian Flynn was going to help with the writing of the games and everyone acted like the Sonic franchise was doomed until that moment and now Ian Flynn was going to be the one to save it (which I agree with) but now everyone suddenly hates Ian Flynn and that's apparently how it's always been and I really hate this all or nothing mentality that goes around. Also, just to specifically note I do not hate any individuals within the Sonic fanbase when I say this and I wasn't thinking of anyone in particular when writing this comment, I really loved this video and appreciate someone having the guts to look at both sides for once. All I'm saying is that the fanbase at large is like a pendulum that swings back and forth between loving things and hating things and everyone acts like that's not how it is and that everyone needs to agree with where the pendulum is currently at otherwise they are the sole individual dooming the Sonic franchise and yaddah yaddah yaddah. Ian Flynn is a great writer and I love what he has done so far even with his constant reveals of the intense restrictions he has. He does well for what he is given, which is something everyone needs to remember because he's not running the show at all. He is simply working with what he's got, and in my opinion he's doing fairly well with it.
I do like to see Whisper, Tangle, and Lanolin and the others to appear in a future Sonic game. Like NPCs you talk in town like what Sonic Unleashed did. Plus SEGA has the way in it. In a way SEGA approves of them at least with Whisper and Tangle being in the Sonic Forces Speed Battle. There’s always going to be pros and cons that people will love and hate. I just want to see more spin-off games involving other Sonic characters. It’s been far too long.
Pros: ??? Cons: All of the bad characters and writing are canon All this does is make the canon really confusing. Can't imagine what this will be like if it lasts 20 years like Archie did, what a clusterfuck lmao.
