Just remember folks Schluter is just another option, It is not required or necessary. Professional Tilers can build a waterproof shower without the help of Schluter. I do it all the time.
That's the truth. Every shower outside of USA is waterproof and never uses this stuff. But I guess there's a benefit to have a prefabbed soap tray. The drain is pretty nice too.
If you start tiling immediately, the you skipped your 24-hour water test. Here's the way I've done it for almost 20 years with no call backs... EVER 7 Sheets of durock $70 Half a bucked of red guard $80 3 bags of quicrete $20 Oatey drain and liner $65 Fiber tape $15 Misc supplies $50 Grand total of $300 And guess what. I have double waterproofing. If my red guard on the pan should ever fail, I have a bladder under it.
I'm done with schluter! Pro shield all the way now! It's 100% waterproof boards. So if you happen to Nick the board no worries....it waterproof all the way through the board....... Oh and non of that crazy banding. Just seal joints just like it's competitor..... But less expensive. Alot less labor intensive.
Here is the fail of this system, and this applies to any tile install materials warranty. If there is a failure it's the installers fault regardless. EVERY single time. Can anyone here give proof of where a tile related supplier honored a warranty of their product? Especially a failed Schluter system.
The warranty usually offers reimbursement for the price of the product, and NOT the cost of the tile, tearout, and reinstall labor. A traditional shower pan like chloralloy has a lifetime warranty, which means they will reimburse you $60 if it fails. You can assume the same from Schluter, so you'll get your $320 back if you're lucky.
I try to wear long sleeves alot but I'm in Texas heat-_-...ha "I prolly haven't been in the Tile business as long as yall/or him though" (Great work/Tips)
For my tub surround I used Kerdi, Kerdi band, tub spout seal, shower arm seal, Jolly profile, and Ditra for the floor. It went real smooth and I was impressed with the quality of Schluter products. Very thorough example and demonstration, nice job.
Awesome videos, thanks for posting them! I'm relatively inexperienced with tile but my basic jobs turn out okay because I'm constantly fixing my own mistakes. Actually, got pretty bogged down and miserable in dealing with consistent problems then after noticing your videos, got a second wind and a newfound desire to continue and get better. Love your passion and commitment to detail...it's inspiring!
Been using schluter for 3 years, i have found on any shower 4x4 and under is about 300$ more, and larger showers run about 500$ more. O and i will only use Schluter Systems, not going back to the old way👍
My customers want Schluter and I like it too. The price is just the price. In the end it is a viable product. I don't do liner showers anymore. I have seen too many issues to deal with the old ways anymore. It ts true that if done "properly" you can make any system work, but I just got sick of dealing with all the inconsistencies and inherent risks of accepting the shoddy work of all the tradespeople working ahead of me. Even at a higher price, it is worth every penny. The last time i ever did a liner shower, I put Schluter Kerdi over it just to make sure my customer doesnt have to deal with any issues and frankly to avoid any lawsuits. If a builder is adamant that I do a pan liner shower, I tell him I won't do any part of his job if he refuses to pay the minor extra cost to cover over the mudbed with kerdi. If they refuse that, I haven't lost a friend. Quality doesn't have to cost more but in many cases quality does cost more. In the end, everyone has a higher or lower definition of what that word means.
God forbid you have to tear out a Kerdi shower system due to the tile was completely wrong on a new house out in the field because of a designer the home owner was out of country shower sat for months and believe me I would have loved to had a durrock wall and mud pan that day! Schluter is no joke I have been installing the system for over 7 years now we do 600 new construction houses a year in Va with 12 different Builders from single family all the way in the million dollar custom range! I am a mud mechanic from the late 80’s early 90’s walls and floors 30 years of tile setting trained by the old tile guys..I’ve seen the times change through the durrock the glass back mesh you name it and every kind of roll on water proofing they make. Red guard is garbage it peels. Hardi backer is compressed siding if you can split sideways with a putty knife that’s the integrity of your substrate. I still do mud pans occasionally with funky turns in them for linear drains but it’s all kerdi for the membrane!
Let’s be honest, no brand will warranty the entire project if you don’t use their materials. The shluter system is more expensive for the project start to finish. Comparing it to traditional shower pan liner and roll on waterproofing. Shluter just trying to be more DYI er friendly.
$671 just for the shower kit at home depot total cost over $1440 and don't forget they won't warranty unless you use a $74 schluter trowel things have gotten a lot more expensive
Am i missing something? Don't get it! Why did you put the shower pan last? Why not put the shower pan first than have the wall sit on top of pan? that way if there is a leak, it goes straight down the pan instead of between the pan and walls?
For most of your projects, do you typically use green board and then apply the membrane over it, or will you sometimes use Kerdi Board? How do you you decide which is the better option for a project? I assume Kerdi Board is slightly more $$, but it also eliminates one step. But then again, you'd have to do the Kerdi Band so maybe it doesn't save a step after all!
We use Schluter a lot. Did you see that now you need to use Schluter brand thinset (not easily available) and register the install with Schluter to obtain the warranty?
We talked about this with our rep 2 months ago and was told that using their thinset is not necessary for warranty. Also, he didn't mention anything about registering, we'll have to look into that.
@@LandbergTileTV Good to hear. I'll double check with my rep and let you know if I hear any different. I was just looking for specs for something on Schluter's website recently and ran across this: www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/faq/lifetime-warranty-steps
I grew up in southern Cali helping my dad doing hot mops so I always used him to waterproof my showers than I go traditional black paper diamond mesh scratch float just learning to see if I need it in the future
Schluter systems fail because the thinset used isn't waterproof. I was FORCED to install this on ONE job. Never again. Spend the extra and use the Wedi system. It's the best of the market, and you'll never have to spend $12,500 to repair a problem that could have been avoided because you wanted to save $1100.
Wow, old video is right. Funny that the current cost is what is claimed at the intro as not being the cost. Its now double the cost in inly 3 years while cement board has stayed relatively the same (and is 60% less.
that's about the cost fpr me too, although I prefer t use Kerdi panels, they are lighter than any other boards. also, love the music, who do you guys use for music?
There are three things key things you show in video that make the system work for me, other than cost. Scissors, foam base and Kerdi. They are all light weight and easy to transport and work with. Have enough stuff to haul around as it is...just saying.
@@boltup5566 yes, modified over wood substrate, and yes the top side of the tray is sloped from the corners to the drain. Landberg has a video on large format tile on the tray that best illustrates how it is sloped.
You always have to feather out the pan with thinset with the foam to get the proper slope. Those may be quicker, but they sound hollow and flimsy. Old school mortar base with kerdi membrane is the only way to go!
1its not waterproof. 2 the buildup of multiple layers inside the pan will cause at least a 1/4 inch bow at the bottom. 3 how many jobs allow for plumbing after the shower walls are sealed up. And it takes only 10 minutes per wall??? That's total BS
Haha The only way you can acquire a Warranty is if you get every product number, such as on the kit...Niche....drain...even thinset bag and submit that into Shluter would your shower be under warranty... oh and my I add that Shluter would only warranty the prep material and that’s it, not your tile...labor...and other heavy damages. Lol good luck on your warranty. Oh and if you sell your house the new owner doesn’t withhold that warranty.
Do you have do any extra waterproofing around the cutouts? Around the shower drain, niche and fixtures? Edit. I saw that circular patch for the fixtures...what about the drain and niche? Also have you ever heard them honor a warranty issue? Im sure they just say you did it wrong and wipe their hands of your issue.
In my region (Ontario Canada) a 38" x 60" schluter kerdi shower kit costs = $595.80. niche: 28"x12" = $118.47. Drain grate and flange = $159.94. 4 sheets green drywall = $123.48. 50lb bag of unmodified schluter thinset = $31.37 (2021 prices total) $1,029.06. NO labour. Quite a difference in costs
I wish this video was out 2 weeks ago when I started my shower as as a homeowner and a DYI guy. The time I have wasted doing it the traditional method I would of been done already!.
In another video you demonstrate how to use kerdi board to flatten and plumb a wall. Can this technique be used with green board and kerdi membrane? Thanks
water seeps through thinset.... schluter is not waterproof. Would rather use RedGuard or another membrane over drywall before tiling.... gives more peace of mind.
And conversely three coats of red gard on a Hardibacker enclosure is 60 bucks. Oatey drain, PVC liner and a mud bed. Another 50. I guess both will achieve the same outcome.
Hugh G. Rekshin add in all the labor and dry time for that and you will equal at least a day of labor costs. Plus an overall inferior system hands down.
Except for no warranty and a lot of extra time for you're method. I can be setting tile the same day with a schluter or laticrete shower. And know I have them behind me....time is money and liquid applied just takes to long, does it work....sure, if everything is perfect and you get the proper thickness on the backboard. As far as the floor is concerned, sorry but mud bed and liner pans eventually fail. And from the very first time you turn that shower on the pan is saturated from that point on
Correct me if I'm wrong, but let me break it down on average for the system you are talking about: $100 backerboard $100 pan liner and mortar $20 Drain kit/ABS $20 Lumber $120 Two gallons Redgard/Topical membrane (3 coats on curb/curbless, 3 coats on niche, 2 coats on shower walls) ______ $360.00 So, for $250 more using Schluter, you save 8 hours on labor and dry time. Make your choice, save $250, or save 8 hours of labor/dry time and avoiding harmful dust/fumes and bodily abuse.
Great Video. Now to be even Greater compare it Wedi cost and time to install. Thanks again for producing tile video that people want to watch. People can only watch so many videos of someone cutting and sticking tile on the wall.
Its still just a sheetrock shower with a membrane, an water ingress will cause failure. But warranty can cover it because they make so much off they're products.
What schluter needs to do is design a customizable drain location pan slope for installation in crazy high rise condominiums where drain locations are fixed, in odd places, and cannot be moved without significant cost and time. They do that, and I'll use schluter ever single time, because it's great.
I would never do a seven day flood test. That is crazy, a shower pan is never meant to hold that much water for more than 24 hours.Those tests are interesting, but silly at the same time.
Thanks for the breakdown. People tend to think Schluter is ridiculously expensive but once its broken down and put into perspective with a warranty as well, why not go with this method? Great videos, I enjoy your installs and hope to use some of your tricks in the future.
I thought the pan already came waterproofed. It is only waterproofed if you have to extend it with mud. I working on diying my bathroom and will use schluter. Even my plumber said it was better than the old ways.
I really enjoy watching your videos. Your tool reviews are great! Your waterproofing system cost as much in California as it does in Iowa. I hope you add some mark up to that as well?
My boss will put the schluter pan in, then run durarock up the walls. Then uses the schluter tape around the base with ardex x 5. Then waterproofs the durarock with some blue stuff. I think it’s wasting time and can’t be good?! I made a cup from a scrap of the orange schluter and put some water in it, 3 days ago. The water started evaporating and it showed no signs of weekness.
Trouble with Schluter is one can't find everything you need at Lowes or Home Depot. They have fabric but very few stores sell kerdi boards and even then only in little 32" x 48" size. None stock Kerdi Fix or Schluter All Set and good luck finding the right square notch trowel (1/8 x 1/8) or an unmodified thinset that's not the questionable $7 bag. Had to piece my kerdi board shower together from two distant stores and Amazon. Great video however, thank you.
One thing I’m confused about. I thought schluter shower pans were already waterproof. But the ones I’ve seen are orange while yours was white. Confused.
You do great work "I have so many questions but I'll try to keep it short...ha I'm trying to start my own ' very small' business as a Tile installer... I understand that to a builders/contractors perspective it's very important to be adequate on $$$/Time/Code/Warranty... But In your opinion as far as quality (if you were installing in your personal shower/house) 1. Would you use this membrane product or a shower pan liner for the floor...?? (I know dealing with mortar mix underneath can be a pain-_-ha) "I like the way the membrane on works on walls though) 2. There are many versions/types of thinset from 18$-35$ 'I think' which type/kind would you prefer if it were your personal shower...? 3. Would you use 1/2 Hardy board on walls for a personal shower..?? (I've heard green board is up to code for showers buh feels to close to weak sheetrock to me wouldn't 1/2 hardyboard last longer & be more sturdy +1/2hardy is equal/level most of the time with sheetrock aswell)
We install Kerdi foam pans and dry pack mortar beds. They both work. We like working with Schluter Ditra set ($15 bag) and I would use Kerdi board on my shower walls. If all installed properly, all methods/boards will last long.
Been doing Schluter Systems here in Cali for over 5 yrs No problems ever. Will never use RG We used to hot mop, deck mud, wall float, scratch, etc Now Schluter all day every day. However you forgot screws, kerdi fix, specialty drains, benches. We always wait a day to install, never same day. Ossss
hello! im sorry i didnt get your name, i think u r by far the best tile setter,i love your work, u did a curbless shower in one of your vids, and as an amputee and at my age i would like to have one for myself, only i didnt see how u did the shower floor.
yes sir, we removed the concrete shower slab, poured a new concrete slab lower to accept the shower pan. There are many ways to do a curbless shower. You can use google to investigate...
The main issue with Schluter products is the install is not really a DIY for many. It has to be done perfectly with no flaws. While it's "easy" it's not as easy they make it seem and not the easiest or most fool proof install for the average DIY who might make a minor mistake. There is zero tolerance on a schluter install. it has to be done to specs it has to be done using the materials they say with no deviation. It works but there is easier installs with similar results. For example paintable membranes Crack/waterproofing membranes work very well and are much more fool proof than feeling confident that the seam tape is properly bonded. Still a top level product just has to be perfect and perfect is not a guess or a hope in a shower stall.
@bill hill Just look on youtube and you will see professionals who install a wide variety of products day in and day out. Most have had a job here and there where they realized that one product wasn't compatible with another but wasn't obvious or they go in to fix someones sloppy job and it just shows that with one product they probably could of gotten away with it for a longer period but not with schluter. Zero tolerance is a bit of an exaggeration but people respond to "don't mess with the instructions" differently than "be careful." since I was referring more to mixing products. The schluter system is notorious for working really well only when you use only their products or know the technical science behind it down really well . While some other products that a bit more interchangeable and fool-proof. If someone wants to DIY it and is not a professional and they want to use schluter they should know to spend the money and follow their instructions and only use schluter products or at the very least call them for technical support. It's one of those things that if you do right you can plung that thing 4 stories under water and it won't leak while another product may only go 2 stories but is less likely to get screwed up but a someone who doesn't do it all the time.
It’s not close man the price of conventional stuff comes out wayyyyyy cheaper , but you don’t have warranty but on the other hand do it right and you’re golden . And what you do for different size showers ? They sale diferente size pans ?
These aren't my favorite systems but you just place the drain in position and dry pack the rest of the floor. Works well enough. I still use pan liners all the time but these are growing on me.
Add extra for a bag of modified grey thinset to set the tray pan with they recommend now that you use modified for that. Also you used a couple outside corners around that window lol the drain only has two for the curb not sure about what’s in the kit we buy and stock volume of Schluter Kerri product as we install 600 houses per year 😂 I like the video your close it’s about 630$ but hey that’s a great deal for a great product!
you forget add the modified thin-set, kerdi corners and more, also those prices are only for contractors and only can sale at that price to contractors now my customer are gonna say I charge to much. lol.
I believe any system done correctly will work, if people are serious about a water problem then why not just Epoxy grout the shower area, problem solved and will look great for a lot longer 👍
We don't do the volume of showers you do of course, primarily using wedi. We tried the shluter kerdi membrane and we all complained the whole time about how we wish we were using wedi. I suppose its just like the Ford vs chevy vs dodge
I think your talking about the wedi panels? If so, totally agree with you. A lot easier and cleaner to do. Put the panel up, seal the joints. No BS with drywall, thinset, kerdi, kerdi corners, kerdi bands, buildup, etc.....
Anybody else think the cost was $1616.00 initially? I watched to figure out where that number came from and why he bought $120.00 thinset for a shower. Sloppy $ signs roped me in, but it was a pretty good video.
A 3x5 shower with cement board, mud pan, and liquid membrane is about 300-350 at most box stores. So its about twice as much on paper for materials. However, installing the Schluter system will only take 1 day of prep for most installers. A mud system takes at a minimum 2 days if you do it properly with prepitch under the liner. So with the additional labor cost of installing the pan you are really spending the same money as the homeowner. Great video as always brother
I have one question does anybody know how to charge the system as an installer I live in Southern California and I just wanna make sure I charge my boss right we’re going to be installing shower pan and walls
I installed that some valve in my master bathroom reno (from Amazon) - One thing I noticed is that whenever another water fixture is engaged something inside that valve makes a noise....have you noticed?
Not so sure about 100%! There are vids that show non leak proof seams! On the other hand, 2-3 coats of most any liquid water proofing membrane costs $50-100 and much less critical labor.
Or you can just buy a LADRICRETE shower pan and save more money on labor cost. I think this system is good but LAdricrete is co much faster. good video though
I get my Schluter cheaper than that from Dal. I order a lot from them though and have been for years. The Kerdi drain comes included with the shower kits too. It's cheaper to buy that way.
Yup you're right at it, as a pro I charge 1k for the system and add on for niches which are even cheaper if you build them yourself with kerdi board. Of course the regular homeowner shouldn't be able to buy at DalTile, contractors only. And your average homeowner with limited construction background probably shouldn't tackle a waterproofing install as sensitive as a shower. They should probably start off with a tub surround. I base my costs for average kit at the retail level (floor and decor Bedrosians Ect). It only makes business sense. Oh but you forgot the cost of Schluter trim and the expertise it takes to install that correctly. :)
Good video btw. I understand that your presentation wasn't about trim as that is always a variable. I just wanted to complain about Schluter metal trim lol. It looks great but dang it's a pain. Hahahaha
