It was just a little local thing where I live. Nothing major. I was dating the daughter of a guy who built open wheel modifieds for a living so I ended up getting pretty heavily involved in it.
@@DoRC it's amazing how guys squeeze so much power from those engines with all the restrictions placed on them. I ran caged fwd, 2.3 Ford killed! There were very few ecotecs to be found in the pits. I loved grooving the tires, just something about the smell I guess and hoping the teams siping was set for the tracks blue groove.
I’ve been racing MudBOSS for the last five years. In the beginning Salvas even admitted that he never had the MudBOSS name trademarked up until maybe two weeks ago, so in the beginning when the Slash Modified first came out as the MudBOSS Salvas couldn’t really do anything about it. I think the MudBOSS community is really what spurred Traxxas to change the name by reacting the way they did. If the creation of this new car did anything, it actually helped spur more interest in dirt oval RC racing.
Well given traxxas's history I get the feeling they changed it because it got trademarked. I don't blame salvas for trademarking at all. Putting 10 years into something only to have a company try to cash in on its name especially one that is litigious as Traxxas probably doesn't feel very good
Well given that it's design basically to run in the mud boss class it's not super crazy that they would name it that but coming from a bit of experience with full size racing modified definitely makes more sense to me.
One of these babies was unboxed, sitting on the counter at my local hobby shop on my last visit. No matter the name, that body looks so good with the open front wheels. I have absolutely no need for this car, not an oval track in sight, but i still want it. I agree, Traxxas falls short in many ways, but they put out attractive, eye catching products.
I really do love this. It’s also the reason I dislike Traxxas. They sued for Max! The most cliche product name you can think of! Every other product in the world used it before Traxxas.
Yeah I can kind of understand them doing that for competition in the hobby but suing HBO for it seems a little odd. Then again I'm not them and I don't know what they know.
I recently started doing Mudboss just a week or two ago, but our FB Group (Which is where Mudboss was created) has been flooded with questions and complaints of people buying these Mudboss’s. And I’ve talked with my LHS and they explained to me that back in 2013ish, Eric Salvas created Mudboss, he tried contacting them to create a Roller Kit Version and to sell to Eric a 1000 Slash 2WD Rollers, but unfortunately that never happened…
I was JUST talking about this on your Nero video. Not the same level as getting slapped by Formula 1 for pushrod suspension, but good to start seeing the equal and opposite reaction!
Traxxas had to do this with the spartan when it first came out. It was originally called the titan, but another company had a boat called that. They had to delay the release of the boat. I ended up getting mine on Christmas eve instead of during the summer.
@@DoRC yep. I was really looking forward to getting the boat from the videos traxxas released of it. They ended up having issues with the power system it came with originally too. I had to get mine replaced for free with the castle based system it came with later.
For one thing, the Salvas class is based on a HCG Slash chassis and other parts that will be going away soon. Why buy a stock Slash and a Salvas kit for more money than a Traxxas Modified? Especially when the Modified is ready to race out of the box?
@@gwcrispi Yeah for sure. From a customer point of view it definitely makes sense. It makes it feel even more though like Traxxas just used the mud boss name as a marketing tool never really intending to be able to get away with using it long-term
Given how terrible they are with almost everything now, i would be surprised if Traxxas gets sued and loses a ton of money at some point. They're the biggest scammers in the RC hobby
That implies bashing is for kids. I know a lot of adults that bash :-) but then again maybe we're all kids. We are all playing with toy cars whether we're racing or bashing.
Would you be upset if you spend a decade creating and working on something only to have a giant corporation that's known for crushing the little guy come in and hashing on the name of that thing you've worked on?
@DoRC if I create something, work and put all the effort to build it up and make it known, I would have trademarked/patented from the beginning, not giving a bigger company a chance to profit off of my intellectual property. For right or wrong that's how corporate America works.
@@superrocketRC Fair enough but doing things like trademarking names and then suing people for using those trademark names is exactly what people get upset at Traxxas for. To be honest the guy probably didn't realize he needed to. A lot of people don't really even realize that they need to protect their IP until something like this happens. I'm not saying Traxxas did anything illegal but it's certainly not the most friendly thing to do especially given that it seems like this guy has been trying to work with Traxxas for years on this project.
@@DoRC Hi - RC hobbiest and intellectual property lawyer here. Even if you have not registered a trade mark, you can have unregistered trade mark rights arising from first use in the market (registration of a trade mark just makes an infringement case easier in certain respects). Depending on the facts in this case, it may be that Traxxas was alleged to have infringed unregistered trade mark rights, and ceased use because it took the view that it was at risk of losing that dispute.
Yeah a lot of people feel that way. Personally I think protecting ones IP is fine but at least in my research it seems like some of the things that Traxxas sues for or patents that they created on ideas that they didn't come up with. That doesn't feel awesome to me.
Yeah I don't think that's going to happen but at least little companies that have been sued by them for using max in their product names can sleep with a smile :-)
They used that name to generate a buzz, thats why barely any hobby shops got them and they didnt get many cause traxxas known this would happen but look now everybody knows about it
It’s getting really hard to overlook all the dirty shenanigans traxxas has been pulling over the years, I would like to think they are just another rc company trying to protect what’s there’s but they are fast becoming something to avoid by many. They seem to be guilty of what they sue others for.
@@guest6423 doing the right thing when you're forced to doesn't really mean that you're doing better. The right thing would have been to either not use the mud boss name or at least work with the creator of the mud boss on the project.
The vehicle doesn’t conform to rules, the shocks, transmission, wheels/ tires are all not allowed by rules as well as the body. Also the front and rear arms, caster blocks and carriers are all not compliant. Someone would have to almost rebuild the whole car besides the chassis and electronics
Yeah and I'm sure Traxxas knew that which kind of makes me wonder if they were always planning on changing the name and just wanted to cash in on the recognition and controversy. That would explain why the mud boss name isn't on the car even though I think the name of the vehicles on literally every other car they've ever made
They didn’t get in trouble they just got tons of backlash for using the name, Salvas never trademarked the name mudboss therefore Traxxis was completely ok with using that name
Sort of. They actually did trademark the name a couple of weeks ago and Traxxas then changed the name. I have a hard time believing that's a coincidence. Also by trouble I didn't necessarily mean legal trouble I just meant that things happen that encourage them not to use the name anymore. I suspect though that if they hadn't changed it they would have been illegal trouble so it's kind of a distinction without a difference if you know what I mean
Other yourtubers have been quick to defend Traxxass and say the name wasn't Trademarked and Traxxass gave up the name, pretty much out of the good of their heart. FYI, Salvas did finally trademark the name as of June 21, 2024. I don't Traxxass gave it up as nicely as others would lead you to believe.
Yeah I have a hard time believing they did it out of the goodness of their own heart given their track record. It's a lot more likely that once the trademark application was put in they saw the writing on the wall and figured this was the cheapest way to get out of the problem while at the same time saving some face. But that's just my opinion and it's worth just about as much as anybody else's :-)
Oh, the irony, and I have to admit, I was giddy with excitement thinking Traxxas might get a taste of their own medicine. Unfortunately, the story just isn't true. Traxxas did not get into trouble for using the Mudboss name nor was there a threat of a lawsuit. Salvas did not trademark the Mudboss name so, there was nothing stopping Traxxas from using the moniker. In fact, Steve Salvas made it clear they did not tell Traxxas they couldn't use the name. While Salvas might have contacted Traxxas about a collaboration, it never happened. While we may never know the whole story, the name change is more likely the result of confusion caused by Traxxas using the Mudboss name. Ultimately, the Traxxas Mudboss did not meet the guidelines for this class and Traxxas likely felt that people purchasing the kit might feel like they had been mislead. The Traxxas chassis more closely fits the Modified class rules and that appears to be the impetus behind the name change.
I'm not sure I fully agree with that. First of all a trademark attorney told me that you don't actually have to get a trademarked to have rights to it as the first person to use a name has inherent right to it. Second there wasn't threat of a lawsuit but Traxxas only change the name after salvas filed for a trademark on it. I also don't think Traxxas would have stopped sales withdrawn the product and spent the money to have everything repackaged etc if they just wanted to alter the name to better fit the style of vehicle. It seems more likely that Traxxas saw Salvas trademark the name realized that they probably were going to get sued for using it if they didn't change it and then just decided to change it now rather than deal with it later.
@@DoRC Don't necessarily disagree. I think Traxxas might have seen the writing on the wall and that influenced the name change but Salvas did indicate they were good with them using the name. That being said, I know there was a huge outcry from the Mudboss community and the name was misleading. Not that Traxxas would necessarily care but I think it was definitely misleading and the issue with the trademark just made the name change a prudent move. That's why I said we may never know the full story but as it stands there was no threat of a lawsuit, at least not at this point. 👍
I hate traxxas as a company but the slash platform is perfect. Parts are always available and cheap. You can buy a losi and parts will be backordered the same year of release
Yeah the slash has been around a long time and definitely has a lot of fans. I've owned a few of them over the years and never had any particular problems with them
Well sort of. I've heard from a trademark attorney that said trademark rates are assumed by the 1st user of something so Trax is still possibly could have gotten in trouble for it that being said Salvas did trademark the name a couple weeks ago. That's almost certainly what prompted them to change the name as they don't generally seem to do things out of the goodness of their hearts. At least in my opinion it's not really so much a matter of what they can get away with but a matter of what they should do. Traxxas has sued small companies for using fairly vague variations of their trademarked names so them having to change a name just feels kind of like a little bit of karma.
Patents and suing hurts the hobby's growth and the consumer in having more and better options (in one example, if Traxxas fosters the culture to where everyone started to sue, the xrt would have come out in like 2027; less options means less ppl coming into the hobby). Would have preferred companies take majority market share by constantly putting out better product, facilitates competition and growth, no competition it stagnates snce not compelled to outinnovate. Heard of Traxxas putting so much money into their lawyer team with needless lawsuits, when that money can be diverted to the design team
Personally, I believe Traxxas planned all this from the beginning. It's the game they play, they wouldn't make a rookie mistake like this. The rig made a huge splash when it was released, obviously riding the "Mudboss" name and scene. Now they voluntarily rename the car so it doesn't seem that bad and reduce the probability of any significant blows. Meanwhile this copyright infringement gives extra free publicity to the car. I doubt this wasn't all intentional. Sneaky little bullies. 😏
Not sure I agree with that. They only "did the right thing" after salvas filed for a trademark on the name. That sounds more like they saw the writing on the wall and figured they might as well go ahead and change it now rather than deal with it later.
Treat others the way you wanna be treated….. what my mother always said 😂 nice to hear those traxxas tyrants finally got a taste of their own medicine. Fastest name in rc to cause problems. 😂
What’s up brother, I wanted this car just because I grew up around modifieds , I wish we did have oval racing for regular folks or even RC . What do you think about buying traxxas support “ for guys like us ? Leaving you have a channel aside ? Than I figured if I want mudboss and worried about that get one from salvis because only 300 bucks but not going be fun without others to race , where the traxxas guy is ready for a crazy motor that make those tires 🛞 sound like a real modified “ those wheels pretty cool “ I had my arrma build out last night with Mojave wheels on tarmac really screeched intensively. Love it “
@@DoRC I just mean buying traxxas still after they hurt the hobby as a whole , and the fact that we’re older and had have slashes . My LHS still has the first run saying mudboss but like you said doesn’t say it on the car so it’s not really going be collectible . Another note , couple companies are making BL systems for these groms . I like em pretty cool 😎
@@RcPlayer-tt2vw oh yeah I have a couple of brushless Grom videos :-) As far as buying from Traxxas that's a tough one. I completely understand people not wanting to but I also completely understand people who just aren't worried about a company's business practices and want what they want. Would I buy Traxxas if I didn't have this channel? Honestly probably. I've never been the kind of person that would let an actors political views stop me from watching their movie or anything like that so whereas I don't think what Traxxas does is the best thing for the hobby It probably is the best thing for them and they are a business so it is at least somewhat understandable. Ultimately though it's just a personal decision and I don't think either way is necessarily wrong
Salvas applied for the "Mudboss" trademark on June 21, 2024. Sounds like he applied only when word of Traxxas' new car got to him. I think that Traxxas could have fought him and won, BUT they don't want to anger the entire Salvas Mudboss racing community. The Modified will eventually take over Mudboss racing, because it's a better, more durable car. Traxxas doesn't want to risk having Mudboss racers switch over to some other platform. WIll anyone give Traxxas any credit? Probably not.
I'm not sure they really deserve a lot of credit for doing something essentially when they were forced to. By trademarking the name Salvas essentially prevents Traxxas from using it. Now if Traxxas had chosen not to use the name out of respect for the original creator to begin with then that might be worth some credit.
Now watch anyone with the Mudboss branded packaging think its worth a kasquillion dollars. Traxxas Modified sounds better, and should have gone with that in the beginning.
I agree. I think they were trying to cash in on the mud boss brand but honestly until I saw the Traxxas I had never even heard of mudboss. I saw the car and immediately thought open wheel modified
Doesn't it go both ways though in order to do the conversion, you are using the slash base body to make the mudboss. Granted, Salvas would need to buy a slash, modify it and then resell it for profit to be in the wrong. Both parties need to comply it sounds like.
It's an interesting thought though Salvas was really just selling an aftermarket part for the slash. I don't think they are any more in the wrong than any other aftermarket brand.
@DoRC Yeah you're not wrong they are just selling aftermarket parts so nothing wrong with that. The consumer buying the slash is the one modifying their purchase. Thanks for the video .
I think it's all funny. Traxxas has enough money to have a lawyer. They knew what they were doing. If anything they made the salvass guy more known. It's the RC Racers that ruin the hobby Not the manufacturers. Go up to any RC race track and try to make friends or even have a friendly conversation with a pro racer... All assholes _ unless you fit into their parameters.
The mudboss name is stupid anyway so I’m happy they changed it. And it’ll be fun to watch the traxxas haters make themselves feel better from their mom’s basements crying about how they hate traxxas, forgetting that every decent size company does the same things. While being completely oblivious that the rc hobby in general wouldn’t be where it is today if it wasn’t for traxxas.
In a lot of industries that's true but at least in the RC hobby it seems like Traxxas kind of stands alone in their litigiousness. I can't really think of any other brands in the hobby that are so lawsuit happy nor can I think of any that have a habit of patenting things that have already been around a long time and then suing other companies for using those things. I do agree that they have been instrumental in the hobby though.
@@DoRC that you know of…lol the other thing people never think about is traxxas is one company where horizon is the umbrella for a whole bunch of rc brands, they own all the other big ones really. I like what I like and I’ll buy most anything…except arrma 😂😂 I bought the Losi hammer Rey on their big sale a few months ago and have also picked up a mini lmt and mini t 2.0 and a couple proboats, but I’m not into having new models come to market all the time either because I’m not buying a car that will end up getting discontinued, though I’m wondering with the Hammer Rey, at least with that the Rey platform will be around a while and shares a decent amount of parts. I just think it’s silly to argue about this or that brand being better because it’s just like the old argument of Chevy vs Ford…and we all know GM sells more and is better anyway 🤪🤪
Well yeah it is that I know of but I did do a pretty serious amount of research for the Nero lawsuit video that I did a couple weeks ago and I really didn't find any examples of other companies that have the same litigation practice that Traxxas does. And at least for me it's not really the litigiousness that's the problem it's the fact that they tend to patent things that they didn't actually create and then see other companies for using the same thing. They also seem to like suing little companies for using variations on their trademarked names when it's extremely unlikely that those companies were going to hurt their bottom line. Again they're within their legal rights to do it It's just probably not best for the hobby as a whole.
@@DoRC there’s no point in having a patent if you’re not going to enforce it, that’s their lawyers job, I highly doubt it’s Mike Jenkins out starting these lawsuits. And really I’d take more issue with Horizon because they own so much of the market, if traxxas didn’t exist or fight back they’d have gone bankrupt or just close (ex. Novak, just about anyone who’s been in the hobby very long has had at least one of their esc’s) like every other rc company has, and at that point Horizon would basically have a monopoly and charge whatever they want. That’s the problem a lot of people that are “traxxas haters” have, they don’t think of Horizon as a conglomerate but that’s exactly what they are. And there have been plenty of lawsuits over the years in the hobby from a lot of brands. As far as I’m concerned I’m all for competition and upholding patents because that encourages innovation in the industry. And then specifically for the Nero, if you put that and an ERevo next to eachother it’s so similar it’s crazy, to the point it’s like the designers had an ERevo on the desk next to them when they were designing the Nero. And then they put a similar diff system in it like the Summit to boot. I guess some might call me a Traxxas fanboy (most of my stuff is Traxxas so I don’t care, I enjoy them the most) but I look at it as knowing from their history that they’re not going to update or discontinue a model and I can’t find parts. I’ve got an original eMaxx you can still find parts for very easily, unlike the Vaterra Twin Hammers I had until recently because I couldn’t find much of anything for it without just buying a parts car. So people are free to choose what they want and enjoy it but as for me I’m sticking to Traxxas for the majority of my collection because I can walk into any hobby store or go online and find anything I need or want! 😊 I want Horizon to continue though because if it weren’t for that competition we might not have things like the X Maxx or Arrma 8s or the Losi Super platforms, and let’s face it, those trucks and buggies are all pro freaking sweet! As for Traxxas cheaping out on some thing like servos, I think it’s because they realize people want to customize their stuff so why put the more expensive parts in them and drive up the prices (ex. the Ultimate models). Thanks for having a civil conversation with me though, it’s just funny when people get so angry about a bunch of toys, even if they are really expensive ones, because that’s wait what they are! 😆😆
@mikes062 I agree that Monopoly is also not good but a lot of the lawsuits that happened occurred before horizon was as big as they are. I also think that protecting IP is important and I think that the Nero was pretty similar to the Revo but Again the patents that Traxxas got happened before Nero existed and were often for things that they didn't create and that had already been used not only in other industries but in RC Well before Traxxas patented them. That part's the only part that really bothers me. It still doesn't stop me from buying Traxxas stuff but I can also understand why some people wouldn't appreciate it.
I suppose it’s only ok to sue if you are another company besides Traxxas? I would be a complete retard if I didn’t patent or trademark anything I worked on for years
Many people don't realize that they need to protect their IP until someone tries to take it. I don't think anybody would fault Traxxas for suing someone who stole their original idea and used it as their own. Most people get upset attractions for doing things like patenting concepts that have been around a very long time and have even already been used on other RC cars then suing other people for using those same ideas.
tough choice, purpose built, overpriced outdated slash or kraton 6s, or three gorgons. or a 2wd racing kit from any racing brand, and buy my own expensive electronics.
I'm not sure that would be enough. If they were concerned about getting sued which is the only reason I can think that they would actually go through the effort to change the name simply making a small alteration like that might not fix the problem
Maybe but it seems awfully coincidental that they named it mud boss then Salvas applied for a trademark for that name and then they changed it withdrawing what they already had out there. Feels a lot more likely that they made the change in reaction to the possibility or even threat that they were going to get sued
@@DoRC they have enough money to do as they wish. The trademark is registered out of Canada so I doubt it has anything to do with what was already out there. End of the day their modified is nothing like the mudboss of today. So getting it changed was the easy part.
@@DadsRCGaragePNW maybe so but If they just wanted to change the name why would they pull back all the stock. It seems like they would just change it going forward as that move cost them quite a bit of money. Not that they don't have the money but it still cost them money. We will never know for sure but given the timeline of events and traxxas's reaction it feels more like they did something because they had to rather than doing it because they wanted to
@@DoRC I manage a hobby town in the Pacific Northwest thus PNW. I have 2 mud bosses in stock and got the call last week they are changing the names. My rep didn’t ask for them back. Just sell them. They would recall them to the factory if the word was on the car. Think that’s the only one that doesn’t say its name on it.
@@DoRC I'm talking about batteries and chargers. I have a 15 year TMaxx 3.3 that I love. I just can't get behind the high prices then having to buy batteries as well
