Next episode is more WoBs from our Brandon interview! We will talk more lore about Sunlit Man after. Sorry Rebeke, I wanted to talk about you but we forgot. There's a lot of chaotic energy in this one. -Eric
Btw does Sigzil need to abandon his Windrunner oaths and spren or could the spren be murdered with anti investiture? Hence the weird oaths semi still work and the pressure stuff
Shardcasters…have you considered time does not unfold at the same rate across the Coamere Interstellar style? Scadrial time can happen at a faster rate than Roshar
I’ve been telling anyone who will listen, I really feel like this book is the first pure cosmere book. Like even things like lost metal and rhythm of war being much more interconnected are still distinctly Mistborn and Stormlight books. Even the other secret projects feel like distinct worlds with references. But this book doesn’t feel like that. It feels like a story about the cosmere as a whole. And I LOVE IT
So true! It makes me so damn excited for what the future of this absolutely incredible vision is. What started as many independent fantasy worlds is morphing into the inter-stellar sci-fi-fantasy that the very name Cosmere has always hinted at. I've personally always believed that the Cosmere would always remain mostly "secretly" connected, in the sense that any overlap/world-hopping/cameos would be mostly done covertly and mostly as easter eggs for the hardcore fans. And then the last Mistborn era 2 book blew me away but I still thought that would probably be the most extreme it got. But in Sunlit we got to see an absolutely insane level of not only cross-civilization interaction but also just the intimate knowledge of how things like bonding vs Shardblades works. It promises some truly awe-inspiring stories in the future! I only hope Brandon will remain healthy enough to keep up his work for decades to come. He has been getting worryingly big these last few years, and I'm only noting that from a genuine concern for his long-term health.
I have heard of the Topaz, but only because you guys have talked about it lol [spoilers below] . . . . Favorite scene, hands down, Sigzil vs the Scadrians. So many things from that interaction live rent-free in my head, the main ones being: "Wait, are you Rosharan?!" "Let's speak a civilized language. Do you speak Malwish?" "It's ok because I don't have any metal on me, so--" *gets thrown against the wall* Sigzil: "If you don't let me out I'll cut my way out" The Scadrians: "ok we're letting you out now" I am incredibly excited for more of these kinds of interactions, and until I see a full-on Mistborn/Radiant fight I will not be satisfied
I think a fully charged Mistborn takes that one every day, they're just too OP for even full Shardplate to make much difference. But the right Twinborn could make for some damn interesting fights!
No shot. A mistborn could be a big challenge for a knight radiant with armor, but the knight takes it 9.9/10 times. A knight's healing factor is great enough that the mistborn would not be able to injured them as long as they have stormlight, and they would have trouble getting through the armor. Meanwhile the knight only has to hit the mistborn once.
@@SpiceWeazelIt's... Hmmm. Difficult to say. We don't really know what a fifth oath radiant is like but I suspect a fully trained Elend level mistborn would be insanely powerful and might be able to influence the knight emotionally and whatnot.
@@user-ez9ng2rw9c We don't know this for certain, but Brandon has said that Invested materials are resistant to the effects of Invested arts. Since an aluminum hat blocks emotional allomancy, I am nearly certain that the extremely invested armor of a radiant would block it completely. We also know that radiant armor is outrageously durable, able to block powerful strikes from a shardblade. The only way a full-powered mistborn could break that would be a duralumin-fueled pewter attack or steelpush. Even then, the resulting injury would be quickly healed by stormlight. Meanwhile, the radiant only needs one shardblade strike to kill the mistborn.
I've spent so much time reading cosmere lore and watching this podcast and I *watched* the dawnshard podcast, and I absolutely do not remember the topaz as anything other than one of hoid's names.
Yea, grabbed it as soon as I could on ebook and read it all in one night like I did yumi. It's fantastic, and loved the glimpse into how the future of the cosmere will be. I'll miss when everything was a mystery but that's just like me missing the feeling I get playing through dark souls the first time. It's a great experience to go through and learn
I loved how scadrian seen to the most advanced (mainly because we don't know what's happening on Taldain), but they seem terribly terrified of Radiants. To me, that makes sense, because other than the crazy highly invest character (Returned, Elantrian, yumi, shades ect), they seem to be the most consistent when it comes to being deadly. Especially 3-4th ideals and up. Living shard plate is really broken stuff.
Maybe we’ll get a Sigzil novella somewhere in between like Stormlight 9 and 10 or something. Definitely think we’ll see what happens with Sigzil and his spren(s) + Dawnshard/Hoid stuff in Stormlight
This was my first cosmere book. I picked it up not having read anything from Sanderson other than his Wheel of Time stuff. I read it about a month ago. I absolutely loved The Sunlit Man. I could see there were lots of references that I didn’t get but it didn’t make the book hard to follow. In fact it just whet my appetite to start all of them. I’ve now read the first two Stormlight books, the first two Mistborn books, and Elantris. I’ve been very impressed g with the world building. It’ll be fun to reread The Sunlit Man after I’ve read the entirety of the cosmere books
@@17thShard of course. You guys mentioned an interest in hearing the perspective of someone who didn’t have the history of the cosmere. Figured I’d share. I truly appreciate good world building. I’m a game master and good quality world building is super important to me
I loved the bookclub that was recently posted for this where one of the people was the narrator who had never read another Cosmere book before this. Even without knowing anything about the other books he still loved it and was very intrigued about what all the references were to.
Time would be why Hoid took it up again, though. If there were a way to put down a dawnshard, Hoid would be the guy to know how - and at the time, it was probably way easier to hide. We're in the space age now though, with intermingling magic systems. That could have forced his hand into picking it up again and keeping it moving.
I think if you start the Cosmere here you'd 100% have to come back for Easter eggs. Where Tress and Yumi you might not feel like you're missing something or later wonder what you missed. I'm a bit weird though as a veteran of epic fantasy I actually started the cosmere with Stormlight (I'm actually not sure I make it through Mistborn 1 without my love for the Archives). I think I was actually distracted at the beginning trying to figure out the actually metaphysics of who was Nomad and how had he gotten there. In the end I think I would still recommend either of the other Kickstarters or Warbreaker as better cosmere intro for beginners.
I feel like people overstate the editing differences. It's hard to say, but without seeing the actual editorial notes, I'm not sure how much this is true. This book is very different than a Stormlight book. -Eric
Like I love Moshe's stuff for sure, but Yumi didn't have Moshe and I think is fantastic. I think it's more that Brandon is better at starting things on wacky worlds, and giant series are just really hard to do well. That seems more likely to me than huge editorial change. -Eric
A yes geology. Remembered the topaz and dead god is it gonna take a long time for me to decide how I’m going to justify the geology of canticle in my head.
I think partially it was rated so highly that my expectations were too high, and honestly it was just zany stuff happening with very little explanation or grounding, to me. Maybe if my expectations were set better, but I think the movie is overrated. -Eric
What if Witt betrays Roshar because Odium gives him exactly what he wants (whatever it is). And the reason Odium knows what he was after is because that is the memory he stole.
I really loved Brandon’s dedication of the book - “For all of you, the fans of the Cosmere, Who make my dreams come to life.” Honestly it made a little teary eyed
Everyone always talks about how the Night Brigade is scary/threatening because of weaponized shades. I'm far far more terrified of the fact that they are using Hemalurgy. I know it was only a brief reference, but a group with their ruthlessness out there making who knows what out of spikes is definitely the scariest thing so far in the Cosmere.
Yup, THIS! There are obviously huge questions as to cross-planetary magic interactions, but the possibilities are horrifying. Just thinking about the incredible potential that came from simply combining Alomancy and Feruchemy in Mistborn Era 2... Imagine a Hemalurg just handpicking useful Roshar abilities, and mixing in some high-level heightening from Nalthis and some Gold twinborn action a la Miles Hundredlives and you've basically created an unkillable unbeatable demi-god. Not Truly terrible but also awe-inspiring potential there!
The context of Aux saying that he took Oaths too and that he is a Knight radiant not only brings the dynamic of how he refers to himself full circle, but it adds so much weight and meaning to all the deadeye spren from the Recreance. We already know from RoW that the Spren chose with their Knights. But now knowing each of the Spren is a knight in their own right or at least sees themselves that way makes their sacrifice somehow even more impactful.
I saw it as in the future of the Cosmere Spren can now become Knights Radiant as well. As it is now only the people in the physical realm can speak the oathes. I wonder how exactly this will work. Probably a bit different than we are both thinking.
Sprenships! Sprenships! I can't wait. We're gonna have memes like a Rosharan pointing at a Scadrian ship and saying "look what they need to do to mimic a fraction of our power"
This shardcast made me imagine a group of 5th ideal windrunners lashing themselves like 1000 times while carrying a lot of fabrial missiles and acting quite literally like fast, light aircraft, just amazing lmao
When I was reading Shadows For Silence, I imagined the Evil as being a large, black cloud that traveled around the continent killing people simply by coming into contact with them. That image was reinforced when I read Yumi and the Nightmare Painter. I thought, "Okay, the Evil is just a smaller version of the Shroud." This felt plausible because the Shroud and the Evil were both the results of a Shard being Splintered. I was definitely NOT expecting kaiju-sized figures stomping around wrecking havoc!
The shroud was not caused by a splintered shard thoihh. It was vreayed by the machine absorbing all of the souls of everyone on the planet and was basically runoff like a massive pollution cloud
This is the only secret project that I got real "post book depression" from. I NEED more. Both from Sigzil and from this Era of the Cosmere. I feel like a Returned and each book Brandon writes is a breath he bestows upon me. It doesn't keep me going forever, but I feel invigorated after each one. I have so many thoughts about this book and the massive implications it has about a great number of things.
Man, the timeline discussion. I had a similar talk with a group of friends. Brando needs to ANSWER these damn questions. Sigzil's timeline is wild. As for Sigzil clearly keeping some of his old Windrunner powers, I don't think that's purely Dawnshard weirdness. Shallan was still Lightweaving, poorly, after she broke her Oaths to Testament and before she bonded Pattern. I've heard of the Topaz!
I really need to re-read this book already. How much is it confirmed that he broke his windrunner oaths? I was thinking that his spren might have gotten destroyed with some anti-investiture
I think another confusing part of his timeline is the fact that he has to lose his honorspren, pickup the dawnshard, then still hang around on roshar long enough to bond aux. So did hoid really give it to him because roshar was getting dangerous?
I've only just finished, but I think at one point it might have been implied that he got Aux on Braize? I might have been connecting points that weren't connected though.
Is there a possibility that sigzils Windrunner spren was killed by an anti investiture dagger? And that he didn’t walk away from the wind runners rather his spren was killed and then later (possibly after gaining the dawnshard) met aux and bonded him. I just find it hard to believe that sigzil would just up and leave the windrunners making his spren a dead eye
Also thinking more why would aux knowingly bond a man who had previously broken his oaths. I think this is more indication that book 5 is going to be heart breaking
To me that's the only thing that'd make sense. His spren gets killed, he goes full justice mode, but with his love for rules that makes him a perfect candidate for Skybreakers.
@@mirjam3553i feel like Kaladin and Szeth's interactions in book 5 are laying the foundation for not just the new Skybreakers and Windrunners being allies but for Sig to become a Skybreaker in the future
My Dawnshard passing theory: Hoid previously set up a chain of Dawnshard users before he would need it. It has come to a point where he needs it now, so he brought the most recent wielder to Sigzil (one of his most trusted/competent allies) to take up the Dawnshard, only for Hoid to take it immediately after. Sigzil is to evade capture for as long as possible (this does not bode well for his future) in the hopes of delaying the pursuit of Hoid. Sunlit takes place after the chain has caught up to Sigzil and he now stands at the last link to Hoid.
@@connerwallace4997 Agreed, this entire plan would hinge on Sigzil knowing to evade capture but that's the opposite of what he initially did given that he only learned that they could use him to find the Dawnshard after he gave himself up thinking they wouldn't want him without it.
In the book they discuss making hemalurgic spikes out of dawnshard holders to track who had the dawnshard next. So it would make sense that they are using a hemalurgic spike from the previous holder. Edit: i see the error of my ways now lol This could still work though as it seems hoid didnt have ds the last time we saw him in row it is possible he has stored it in someone/something else and brings that thing to sigzil
Wait, how is noone talking about the Cinder King saying "Do people on your world really become gods?" Is this referencing more than just the new Odium from RoW?
"Oh we have the knowledge to completely change this society for the better, saving the life of thousands, but it's better not get involve. We could completely change the way they use investiture, gaining a potential allied and a good source of investiture, but naaahh. But we also should totally help that one psychopath we once met on this planet in his quest to seize power and kill innocents people. Also, we shuld give him means to weaponize investiture".
Lot of discussion in the ep about how and when we’ll get more Sigzil story but if we’re talking about Stormlight then Brandon has Interludes to play with. Sigzil can join Rysn in getting the frequent background treatment.
Yes, there is, I will try to remember to grab it later, but I don't have time to do research now. I'm certain it is cited on the Hoid Coppermind page. -Eric
I think it was around 1:06:00 someone mentions that he has to get his windrunner plate and abandon his Spren. I think it's infinitely more likely his Spren is killed via anti stormlight along with a whole bunch of honorspren in a mission in book 5
I feel like he lost his Skybreaker Oaths because Aux died. Or at least he lost access to Gravitation because of that, also the broken Oaths cannot override the Torment as he initially thought it would. He ran away and stopped following his Oaths which made things worse. But once he was more in line with his Oaths the Plate started to come back to him.
1. Bold assumption that this Dawnshard is the same one Hoid originally had 2. What if the night brigade simply needs more previous holders of this Dawnshard to find its original holder
Loved the episode it was really fun and entertaining, I laughed my ass off at some points. I wanted to know did you guys ever do a Hoid episode or do you guys have planned one?
While I love this book for the lore it provides, Nomad repeatedly saying "that's not who I am anymore" and variations of it made me want to scream, "oh my Gaaaaawwwwwd, Jessica, we get iiiiiiiiittttuhhh" at the book
Hell yeah, this is my commute listening for the rest of the week, thank you for being amazing 17th Shard! Edit: David’s intro was super corny and I love it
NGL I enjoy being in the Marianas Trench of the Cosmere the most. I remember the Topaz.Too bad Weiry couldn't join this one hope he's on the deep lore pod. Fantastic episode as always.
I’ve heard about this podcast before, but never given it a chance. I’m overflowing with regret as I realize this is everything I’ve needed to calm my brain after finishing a cosmere book and my restless thoughts of implications and questions.
Given the Night Brigade employ Shades of their own former comrades to fight, I think they will not turn themselves into immortals, because for them living and dying is part of their power. On the Chain, we had a WoB about ancoring the holder into Cognitive Anomalies....So I think it's a defensive strument that is exploited by the NB (I just realized Night Brigade and Nightblood have the same shortened version, scary). Wearing a Chain stabilize the Shades linked to you to the point to returning them more of their sentience. Like Silence with a Chain would be able to stabilize her Grandma and properly comunicate and act with her... not to any other random Shade
Sigzil was not the radiant in his bond with aux, aux was and Sigzil was his bonded partner. He says it several times that he's the knight and Sigzil the apprentice...
The longer I listen, the more comments I have 😂 birds will be equivalent to the guild from dune. They'll ensure safe faster than light travel. And if you wrap a space ship in aluminum, is it shardblade proof???
A big theme of this book has been Unity and how that ties with conquest and totalitarianism/authoritarianism viz a viz the Cinder King and also how that ties back to Sigzil's experience on Roshar. I feel like the whole "Unite them" thing is going to get way out of hand. I think Scadrial and Roshar are going to go through an inversion as a society from where they first began. Scadrial starts off as a single unified empire under a centralized authority and by era 2 it has fragmented quite a bit with quasi-city states in the Basin and various nations in the South. This will probably progress further into the space age with them having different socio-political factions, movements, and interests among different groups as Harmony turns to Discord (probably also ties into him freeing the Kandra). On the flip side, Roshar starts off as a bunch of disparate nations (and species) that will eventually be united under a centralized authoritarian or totalitarian regime. There might still be some smaller factions of humans, singers, spren, sleepless etc, but there will be a major unified superpower coming out of Roshar, and a large group of Radiants might be working for them as their military/special ops arm that they can use to project power, especially against the Scadrians (like we saw in the Sixth of the Dusk sequel). I wouldn't be surprised if this regime is the one that set the NIght Brigade on Sigzil because they would know about the Dawnshard that was used there and now want to retrieve it.
Sorry about the twofer post... The thing that got me interested was that Aux said he made the oaths TO Sigzil... how could Sigzil have broken Skybreaker oaths if he didn't make them in the first place? And doesn't the timeline imply that Aux was already dead when the oathS (plural) were broken?
Only tangentially related but I think a fanfic I can really get behind is immortal rebeke and zellion reconnecting after a century to have some kind of shared romance when they're both in better, more mature places
51:07 hear me out: someone else already has Hoid's Dawnshard. Then whoever that person is gave it to Sigzil, died by the hands of the Night Brigade and made into the tracking thingy they use to follow him, and Sigzil gave the Dawnshard back to Hoid who probably also passed it into someone else.
Nice one! It's interesting nobody has raised the worry that the Cosemre is going into scify. I wonder how many folks won't come for the ride since is not fantasy. It will be interesting how Brandon manages that ^^
I don't think that Sigzil was necessary holding the Dawnshard when the accident with Aux happened. The reason he consumed Aux is his ability to consume investiture from any source, which he obtained by holding the Dawnshard but he *retains* after having given it back again. Proof of this is the fact that he is able to consume Aux in this book without holding the Dawnshard.
Regarding Hoid/Dawnshard, I think Hoid "stashed" the dawnshard somewhere before going on Roshar. When Odium messed with Hoid's memory, Hoid knew Odium may have discovered the dawnshard's power, location, etc.. This starts a chain of events that leads to Hoid getting the dawnshard, giving it to Sigzil, and getting it back...
This book confirms that it is possible for Hoid to get rid of his pacifism nerf. Without that, he would be supremely powerful among non-shard entities.
The Night brigade remind me of the Crimson Guard from Malazan. Not allowed to move on after death. Also do you think Brandon will pick a side in the space war? We've had POVs from both sides of a conflict before, but it would be interesting if it gets to the point where there is no clear 'bad guys'
I appreciate the spoiler free reactions at the beginning when you do reactions for new books. I was still waiting on my physical copy to read when this episode arrived and it was nice to be able to get a tiny hit of shardcast
I knew about the Topaz. Also I’m all for David’s profound denouncement of the Space Age Scadrians. You can’t trust those metal fetishists with their secret societies and immortal scar ghost!
I feel like the future Radiants are going to take sort of a Jedi Order-type role in the wider cosmere. And Scadrial is basically going to be The Empire.
I kinda agree that cosmere fight scenes are getting a bit stale. I don’t really agree that this book was more exciting. I’m getting a bit tired of mistborn and Windrunners. The most interesting fight scenes imo were in era 2 where they got creative with their twinborn powers. Also where is sel magic? Apparently a pillar of the cosmere. Also where is awakening. In any case I did like the arcanist parts.
