They Just Banned CLOYSTER in Gen 5 OU. But Why? 

Check out my interview with BKC where we discuss Gen 5 OU and more. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NhRCWW7alPo.html

Mixed Cloyster invaded the ladder. I queued up with the only reliable answer I could fit, looking down at my defeated ferrothorn clutching his suboptimal Sitrus Berry. When the moment came the detestable mollusc switched out mockingly, flashing his highly animated grin at me. He knew he would get another single turn of setup eventually, after which his unchallengeable boost would be the end of my carefully considered bulky sand team. I beat my keyboard with one fist, tears streaming down my cheeks, sweat pouring down my other cheeks.

Believe it or not; Cloyster has been on thin ice in Generation 5 OU.

Cloyster’s ice is anything but thin with that massive 180 base defense

This, ironically, brings gen 5 OU a little bit cloyster to being balanced. I will show myself out now.

It's a mollusc moratorium.

Should change its ability name to "skill issue" now

This is a Cloyster catastrophe, folks

Gen 5 OU has been battered by bivalve brutality, but no longer

Ferrothorn only tried to run Sitrus Berry because the fraudulent Pokemon company had not yet added the optimal item for dealing with Cloyster: Tabasco Sauce.

The gen 5 community decided it was finally time to reel in this particular threat after many years of controversy, folks

Good lord, that B-roll footage of constant Icicle Spears and Rock Blasts...yeah, I'm glad that bivalve caught a ban

As someone who has never played Gen 5 ou, I really think we should be looking at Delibird

3:25 tbh, their opponent deserved to be swept on because they named their pokemon after Maroon V songs

He went from safely switching and spiking on Swampert and dying to any neutral special attack to being banned for the crime of always getting really, really lucky with multi-hit moves... This is sad, can we pour one out for our shelly boy?

Cloyster once again proves his worth as perhaps the most powerful ice type in the series now with an OU ban to his name alongside his multiple gens of OU viabilty and Niches in Ubers.

I mean, at this, Gen 5 Is More than 10 years old, so I guess the player Pool Is small enough that they can all get together and say "we don't like this" so good for them

Hearing about older gen balance changes is so funny with the context of current gen. "Volc and cloyster are an issue as they often win by matchup" when almost every sweeper in current gen ou works like that

Never trust a clam

And yet Iron Mugulis is still legal. Smh.

Shell Smash is one hell of a move.

I'm shell shocked at this development.

They should ban gen 4 jirachi. That fuckshit is incredibly unpredictable. Even smogon themselves admited that there is not a single pokemon that can counter every single one of its sets.

Obviously this is a heinous act from the villain Finchinator. Who doesn't adapt like us. It's obvious that we need the super meta relevant threat: HP Electric Empoleon. This is just blasphemy to keep taking away checks from the clear problem, Lando-T........

thumbnail makes it seem like politoed did something to cloyster and I don't even wanna think of what that could've been

As much as I adore Cloyster, I really dislike the idea of a pokemon getting a single opportunity to click a move and then sweeping through an entire team, so sounds like a good decision IMO. I also think it was a weird direction to go in, for the super defensive pokemon characterised by a giant shell to specialise in dumping its defenses to sweep. Wish they'd just like, buffed its SpDef to a decent value or something instead, maybe replace skill link with a "reduces incoming damage on switch-in" or "weaknesses become neutral in hail" ability or something too, cool as skill link may be. Given its spikey shell, could maybe also repurpose Shell Smash as a Cloyster signature-move that acts as an Explosion + Spikes combo, like a kamikaze caltrops-frag grenade. Or a hazard version of belly drum, taking 50% max HP damage to set up a duo/triple layer of spikes in one go? Or an ability that causes it to apply spikes upon fainting, or being hit with a super-effective physical attack, or something? ...I like the idea of Shell Smash being a Cloyster (or sufficiently spikey shell-having pokemon) thing that involves spikes and taking damage, basically

I would love to see some content on the lower tiers of gameplay, especially Gens 5&6 UU! love the content as always and DOWN WITH IRON MUGULIS!

Matchup mollusk might be Jim’s best bar yet

It’s amazing how cloyster could just its ability and moves to mussel though it’s checks

Even though this is a cloyster video Jim still always finds time for glazing mammoswine

I just woke up and this video was posted a minute ago. Yup, Jimothy is a Psychic type.

My thought train for the longest was “if they won’t ban Latios, they won’t ban anything” but I was proven very wrong. A well deserved ban but not the one I was looking for

Congratulations Jimothy for reaching 70k!

I am still waiting for all the gen 4 Ou by technicality pokemon drop to UU A man can dream for Electivire be viabel there... A man can dream.

That ban was pretty deserved. It's too strong for the metagame and certainly needed action.

One thing I’d be worried about re: banning rain (or any other weather) is that that steps on the identity of Gen 5 mechanics far too much. Permanent weather is a core gameplay mechanic to that generation. Even if it’s overpowered, at some point you’ll just start ripping out core gameplay elements of the series and really then why not just go make an “artificial” gen. Take the Pokemon, adjust their stats, learnsets, game mechanics, whatever you want.

Never thought I'd ever seen cloyster go to ubers under any circumstances, but here we are.

Personally I can't wait for all the people that have never/barely touched Gen 5 OU to weigh in on this decision with their expert opinions in the comments

As a gen 3 goober, it’s hard to envision this clam fellow causing such a rukus

The Matchup Mollusk sounds like a potential new ally of iron mugulis

Honestly matchup fishing is why I think tera is unhealthy in gen 9 because it allows too many pokemon to become matchup fishing pokemon

One could even say that gen 5 OU has fallen prey to Cloysterophobia

Cloyster is one of my favorite pokemon! I fell in love with it while sweeping my friend's team in ironically, Gen 5 OU. This is awesome!

Can't wait for FSG remaking their Cloyster Video, this is gonna be fun

The crooked clam's crimes cannot be countenanced.

Something thats worth noting The multi hit moves in Cloyster movepool was buffed from 10 BP to 25 BP in Gen 5. Yes 2.5 as powerful. It went from being at most as good as Gen 5 tackle, all the way to stronger than Outrage Thats how overbuffed this thing was

Cloyster got some of the best moves in the early gens. He got Clamp in gen 1, Spikes in gens 2 -4, and Shell Smash in gen 5.

To me, the best meta is the one when everyone is crying about different things. That means there is a lot of variety

Hey Jimothy, question: have you ever thought about doing a compare/contrast between Smogon Singles OU and Doubles OU? It's clearly established that Gen 5 singles OU is a nightmare to balance, but I seldom see any thorough coverage on what Gen 5 doubles is like. The most I can think of would be those VGC segments of any given False Swipe Gaming video on a gen 5 pokemon.

I was just watching your Cloyster vid when I got word of this.😮

This is oddly satisfying to watch after the podcast with BKC

The Next one should be Reuniclus.

In a way, SPL is the perfect metric if there was a random ladder for Gen 5; a Best of One is VERY much like clicking "Battle" with a team loaded into a random player; I'm not playing a best of 3, its a best of one where either one of us have certain pokemon we automatically win, and Cloyster is a pokemon in that gen that gives way more dice rolls for that to happen. But that's just me, I'll be listening to the podcast later anyways so I'm sure to hear more there

Posted 1 minute ago folks. This is insane.

I remember all the tiering and metagame issues during Gen 5, it was insane, and it's just never stopped or settled. It's like a soap opera

cloyster genuinely is an insane pokemon, cant believe people havent realized how op he is until pretty recently.

It's because he can learn Hydro Pump. If he got that in Gen 3 he would be S tier.

I love cloyster every gen and after 5 he became truly insane

I do remember back in the day of some generations, or perhaps just Monotype, how Shell Smash on Cloyster really is enough to let it pretty much win on the spot if you didn't have anything for it. Always ended up feeling a little _too_ easy to use.

Pokemon is certainly the toughest video game to balance.

Cloysters Collapse

Gen 5 Shell Smash Cloyster, the first pokemon to ever give me core memories on Smogon. Welcome to the NBA my boy.

i have never played a single game of this metagame, yet I am throughly outraged by this ban. I clearly know better than the voters and tournament players. clear abuse of power. sad! smogon continues to ban instead of getting good! before we know it pokemon such as "stunfisk" and "voltorb" will be ban!!

I made master ball tier with a white herb shell smash skill link cloyster . Tera grass always throws off the electric and ground attacks and then I just sweep

A cloyst call do cloyster

Tbf this is the gen where OU banned having swift swim and rain dance on the same team, but not separately... so really what are you expecting?

i dont know what gamefreak was thinking when they added quiver dance and shell smash to the game lol

If i was doing some counter play, I'd get choice specs lucario vacuum wave

On a mollusc monday of all days? Surely there's been a mistake somewhere? This is insane!

That smile, that damn smile

despite not having played gen 5 OU in over a decade, I am sad to see Cloyster go because I like Cloyster. I do think this could lead into a "slippery slope" situation because as you said early in the video, there are a ton of other incredibly viable options and toward the end you speak on how there are a bunch of strategies that people want banned outright. I can't help but feel like people are being crybabies because every time something gets banned they just move onto the next thing that frustrates them as an individual and whine about that until its gone too. I'm sure it will be Latios because Magic Guard and Drizzle are too valuable for the format this far down the road, even though Latios is very cool. I understand that there needs to be some balance but I just don't vibe with the way Smogon approaches a lot of stuff. Cloyster was banned by less than 40 votes, out of hundreds if not thousands of players, maybe even more. It wouldn't take much to rally people behind something that you all mutually dislike just to have it removed. The definition of the loud minority. I also feel like Shell Smash is the problem because remember, in gen 4 it also had Skill Link + Rock Blast and it barely made a dent in the grand scheme. Would Icicle Spear make it better? Absolutely. But would it become some dominant meta force with things like Azelf, Zapdos, Lucario, Roserade, Jolteon, and especially Rotom on every team? Absolutely not. Would that change in the next generation where the ceiling is even higher than that? Again, absolutely not. Icicle Spear makes it good but Shell Smash is what made it great, and without it the stats hold it back tremendously. Without the Swords Dance and Agility boost granted by Shell Smash, Skill Link doesn't do much other than scare Landorus and Garchomp and other stuff like that (but historically Smogon absolutely will go so far out of their way to protect Landorus lmao embarrassing). Should just ban Shell Smash from OU to prevent shenanigans with any other line as well, and to preserve all the other tiers and prevent collateral damage. Shell Smash is what gives it the stats to utilize the tools so I think that's the obvious answer. Just like how they're talking about banning Iron Head on Jirachi in gen 4, so it's apparently not that alien of a concept to them. Passing stats with Baton Pass is banned as well and with gems already being banned long ago there's virtually no room to abuse Cloyster if they would just pull the trigger on the real problem, but Smogon "council members" are so notoriously idiotic with the choices they make regarding "complex bans" even though this is a prime contender for a reasonable complex ban that any player with half a brain would look at and go "you know what, that makes a lot of sense." Nobody is gonna run Overcoat and definitely not Shell Armor. Piss poor Speed for the tier, Ice being horrible defensively already, low Special Defense and HP in a tier where tons of things have massive Special Attack, no reliable recovery... Shell Smash is the ONLY thing that made Cloyster relevant. Standard OU Cloyster with Nevermelt, Ice Skill Link, Icicle Spear, with no Shell Smash, vs standard Ferrothorn is a 2HKO and it's a range. 3HKO vs Specs Keldeo. 4HKO vs Jirachi lead. Skill Link is terrifying to Dragon and Flying types but without Shell Smash, Cloyster just doesn't have the ability to enforce it. It gets knocked down hard by basically any Electric or Grass move, and many neutral Special Attacks in general. With 0 investment in Special Attack, Mew, Jirachi, and Celebi all 1-shot the standard Cloyster set with Thunderbolt or Grass Knot and with no chance of being outsped unless the Cloyster opts for Quick Claw I guess? A small RNG based chance to move first and maybe not even get the KO? Alakazam and Reuniclus can 1-shot it with Psychic (Reuniclus is a small chance to be a 2 hit KO, but even so Cloyster's best shot is also only a 2HKO, but possibly 3HKO). Any Draco Meteor nukes it unless Cloyster moves a lot of its EVs into defensive stats which it really can't afford to do. Maybe it could go with a Specially Defensive set with a Scarf? But it sacrifices a lot of damage that way and so it's even less of a threat to anything it doesn't hit super effectively even if it can outspeed. Perhaps some critical hit cheese with Razor Claw? But then its Speed issue is magnified yet again. The point I'm making is, without Shell Smash, the things that are ALREADY VERY GOOD AND POPULAR DESTROY IT OR DEFEND AGAINST IT WITH 0 ISSUES. Even Pokemon that Cloyster "wins" against will delete it with a super effective Special Attacking coverage move on a neutral nature with 0 investment, like Jirachi's Thunder/bolt. Should have banned Shell Smash from OU. No other Pokemon in Gen 5 that has had Shell Smash for this long will be an issue because everyone and their grandma has experimented with every avenue, and Cloyster is the only one who had the stars align to reach the top. Garbage Pokemon like Carracosta, Gorebyss, and Torkoal aren't going to be a problem, I assure you. It's 3am. Why did I sit here and study and research the topic for over 2 hours, to write this comment about a game mode I haven't played in over 10 years? I don't know. I like Cloyster and I don't like Smogon. But there is no alternative so we have to suffer through their incompetence. The only legal Pokemon should be Charmeleon.

Cloyster ban time.

It's been awhile since played gen V OU but I could see dragmag teams surging

This brings rise to new issues as cloyster, while broken, was the only thing holding back threats like reuniclus, the latis and to a lesser extent, zam in gen 5 OU,

I love cloyster so much because of how strong it is with shell smash, one of my top 3 fav pokemon. But it definitely is very hard to swap into with a mixed set. I believe Blastoise(with shell smash) is a lot more fair version of cloyster, still very strong but easier to counter once set up. Skill link is just an insane ability.

Ngl I like the direction the tier is going what with the sleep ban, gem ban and now cloyster ban but I gotta say Im gong to somewhat miss the old gen 5. Was fun having a metagame that is just stupidly offensive for once. Not nearly as competitive as the other gens but way funnier.

Big ask at the end there. I think the decision to ban Cloyster makes sense and will be looked back on as a good decision. As for what's next... gosh, I really don't know. I think that there are a LOT of chain reactions that come with banning mons like Latios or abilities like Drizzle, and whichever one the council and playerbase is more willing to explore seems like the right pipe to jump down. Though these are going to be very, very, very difficult decisions. BW has so many things that are so incredibly powerful that removing basically any of them from the tier is going to instigate a heavily armed race to the top. I think that the most important thing is that the current council have a clear idea of what they believe is a healthy metagame (informed by the community as well) so they can work towards a vision instead of just blindly banning or unbanning different things. I don't envy them, it's a very messy metagame! But like you, I think it's very fun, and has a ton of personality as a result of its many moving parts.

only played gen 5 during gen 5 so I can't speak to the current, but iirc RU was introduced then and it was just so amazing at the time.

6:17 Isn't Bo1 literally the ladder format though?

its the melmetal of lets go effect.

bald politoed in the thumbnail. cloyster is looking into becoming a barber.

its so hard to believe Cloyster is now in Ubers. it just doesnt feel like an Ubers pokemon...

gen 5's interesting to hear about since it's odd to me that a metagame that's, like, a decade old is still unstable enough to require drastic changes.

I thought tier changes were supposed to stay the same forever once the game ends and a new one comes out.

Ah I see Gen 5 taking notes from Gen 9

You are now a Banned Bivalve.

Will there be a discussion on gems now?

Warcrimes. He did warcrimes.

Ya, Cloyster was always a bit nuts so this makes sense

btw currently you can still use cloyster in OU. So use it while you still can.

Notice how many pokemon with omniboosting moves got banned recently? Gen 9 Volc, Gen 5 Cloyster, Nat Dex Xerneas

Hold up they banned fuckin Cloyster before Latios or Keldeo? What the actual fuck

Maybe the gen 5 community will find our cloyster was just icing on the cake of imbalancd

Wake up, folks! It's a new BKC video!

I’d say Best of 1 is the perfect format for tiering decisions because the ladders are Best of 1, and that’s the primary means by which people play Smogon Metas.

HP fighting accelgor might've helped against anything other than scarf cloyster. Has anybody tried?

Do you think that with enough pushback we could get SPL to become best of 3?

Back when I played gen 5, I didnt have too much a problem with cloyster, but I will admit that I seen him on almost every team I faced. Which was annoying

The problem with people defending rain is that they bring up arguments that have nothing to do with making the tier more balanced or competitive, but rather just "keep flashy mechanic in the tier cuz identity lol" kind of like tera Im not sayinbg there are no competitive arguments to keep rain, Im just saying a lot of people dont even care about the competitiveness of the tier, which should be the most important thing and #1 priority over anything else. If rain is broken then ban it, if something becomes broken after banning rain, then ban that thing too untilñ the tier is balanced

Mammoswine is just the GOAT, a good Pokémon puts the pressure on others, but you have to know a bit about how to use it. You don't just click the deletebutton