This Continues To INFURIATE Much Of The Hockey World 

The biggest issue with this loophole is that it actively punishes teams for being healthy.

Quoting Hockey psychology. "Las Vegas injury reserves"

I respect the injury a lacerated spleen is no joke but it’s getting annoying how many times we seen this be used. It’s get frustrating as a fan of the game.

Leafs use LTIR, but most of those injuries are actually long term and they wont be back for the playoffs. Tampa amd Vegas using LTIR to win the Stanley cup makes this league look Mickey Mouse

My problem with this whole situation is it punishes teams that remain healthy

Simple fix: For the playoffs...you can only ice a team that's under the cap.

I don't really care about this situation at all since my team isn't a playoff contender, but I will say it is AWFULLY convenient that he will be up and ready to go by playoffs AGAIN Absolutely getting a lacerated spleen is a huge injury not denying that, but to happen when it did and for him to be ready at the same time AGAIN...... pretty convienient to say the least

I just love the blatancy that they cant even wait till game 2. Its always magically in time for series 1, game 1...

I still don’t understand why teams didn’t vote this out when they could’ve.. keep in mind everyone your favourite team voted for this to be legal unless your favourite team is either Tampa or Carolina. And yes Tampa voted for it to be illegal before doing it themselves .

Hockey fans need to remember... THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE NHL WANTS! They want to place successful teams in large, new markets. Whether current fans think it's "fair" or not is pretty much irrelevant. If you're already paying money for tickets or merchandise or cable sports channels, the NHL does not give a rat's furry behind about you. They already have YOUR money. What they want is MORE money, and they know from experience that non-fans won't pay to see crappy, non-competitive expansion teams. If you're a fan of the NHL and you don't like seeing Vegas gaming the system, you have exactly 2 choices: 1. Stop giving money to the NHL (stop buying gear, stop attending games, stop paying for ESPN) OR 2. Suck it up, buttercup. The NHL only understands one language, and as long as you're giving them money, your opinion doesn't mean a thing.

Honestly just make the salary cap a thing in the playoffs as well

As much as this team pisses me off and how frustrating the whole situation is, it’s still legal and ik for a fact no rules will change as long as a highly marketable team is doing well in the NHL. It’s only about money and how to get away with it imo

It’s a simple fix, the NHL needs to make teams be salary cap compliant for the playoffs too. Why does the salary cap go away during the most important time?

Alot of moves for trades would have bitten other teams really hard but somehow all work out for vegas.

It’s funny how people forget that the expansion draft was a new idea but people didn’t give Vegas a chance. We got a lot of talented players that were pissed off that no one believed in them. Then October 1 happened which was the worst mass shooting and Vegas knights helped heal this town. They played pissed off hockey with a purpose. Not to mention teams who came to Vegas didn’t take them serious the first year and partied their butt off. That’s how Vegas won their way to the Stanley Cup the first year!

its one thing where Stamkos comes back in the stanley cup final, scores a goal and is out for the remainder of series. Its another thing entirely to deliberately exploit the rules. Its bad sportsmanship

What annoys the crap out of me, is there isnt a system in place to check for LTIR abuse. Because with how many players are magically ready for game 1 series 1, why arent they ready for game 82 of the regular season, or even earlier? Oh... Its because the team used up all that cap, "making a bet" theyd be healed perfectly in time for playoffs, or *anytime after they start* - NEVER thinking about the risk "what if it heals quicker then expected?!" What if we get caught abusing the system? What if the league forces us to activate him while the cap is still relevant?! What if we're forced to make some drastic decisions a game or two before playoffs, and put somebody really important on waivers?!? Ya man... This shit really annoys the crap out of me, and its clearly starting to annoy enough gms as well, as the GM meetings revealed they're looking into dealing with this issue... Because we're getting to a point where every year, the team that can ice the most expensive team by game 1 of series 1 is almost given a pass through the first three rounds is just beyond wild...

2:53 you can add us Panther fans too 😭😭😆😆

I’m not upset with Vegas. They gotta do what they gotta do to win. I’m upset the league has a system like this in place, and none of the GM’s want to fix it.

The lacerated spleen supposed to be Stone on LTIR and return date would be indefinite. Now a month later he is back to practice? Like everyone said from the beginning, if he comes back for playoff, then 100% Vegas is cheating

No this is a total coincidence. Vegas has always been known to be honest, fair and balanced. They would never tilt the scales in their favor. Not Vegas🎰🎰🎰

Bettman made it very accomodating for them I will say.

This is NOT a coincidence. That rule is corrupt. Cap should apply in the playoffs.

They’re an aggressive team. Every year is a cup run. Would loved if the leafs did half of what they’ve done to get to where they’ve been. Leafs aren’t just soft on the ice, they’re soft all the way through

*If a Canadian team tried using the loophole to the extent Vegas has the NHL would shut it down and change the rules mid-season.*

There are currently 15 teams over the cap because of LITR. All of these people complaining are just jealous that their management isn't as smart as Vegas management.

Vegas can kiss my ass... I already hated Tampa for abusing massively the Salary Cap in the Playoffs... But Vegas really crossed the line too far. Stone making 3 times LTIR in a row at the same period... Making block buster trades in the shadow to stack the team to the max to the playoffs... with Stone also coming back for the playoffs... That's clearly abusing. It's not illegal but so damn cheap and I hate seeing that! Either you count the Cap ALL the time or NEVER...

While I understand the outrage and the fact that this is not a new trend. First thing I did was check and ruptured spleen recovery time is 3 - 12 weeks and he slotted in perfectly at 7 weeks for being back on the ice. So, while it is incredibly convenient it is what it is

As a Knights fan in Vegas, I think some of the criticism is definitely valid. The LTIR circumventing is definitely cheap, even though Stone is very much injured (he is made of glass). If they ended up changing the rule due to CHI/TBL/VGK I would more than understand. I think the Knights rep regarding how they treat their players is overblown. The Fleury deal was horrible and people are still pissed about that to this day. Other than that, it's nitpicking. Nate Schmidt was wildly overpaid and we had Petro instead. While I love Reaves, he had lost his edge and was a liability. Patches was injury prone and had a bad reputation so I definitely don't miss him. For the teams listed, I actually think they are healthy rivalries. The Oilers are easily our biggest rival now and we really hate Kane here. Will say I love the Winnipeg fan base, I've never had a bad convo with a Jets fan.

The Knights and the Sharks were talking about Hertl for months. Its possible it would have happined even if Stone was healthy. What Stones LTIR let them do was grab Mantha and Hanafin too. Also the missed the playoffs the first time Stone went on to LTIR before the play offs and he played terrible when he came back the next seasln until he got surgery again

I don’t deny that actual injuries are occurring…but it also seems like some tampering is going on. It feels like at this point that the team/player is pushing the return date back a few weeks or so to “fully recover”, so that it coincides with the start of the playoffs and doesn’t cause issues for the team to be cap compliant for any stretch of time as the end of the regular season. Either that, or the players are intentionally playing with some nagging injuries until they hit the point of the season where they can now go on LTIR and know that the recovery window will perfectly line up with the playoffs starting. Like if Mark stone was diagnosed with some back injury in 2023, and they know the recovery is about 8 weeks…he could just play through some discomfort until the playoffs are 8 weeks away, then go on LTIR for those 8 weeks. There’s just too many times this has happened for it to be a coincidence in my mind. There’s some type of manipulation going on.

If you watch the games, Stone is regularly targeted, he is the spark plug of the team. Their record without him pushed them from the lead to the last wild card.

Gary's loophole.

Everyone mad should be mad at their GMs. Vote went up after 2015 to fix it and everyone except the Blues and Lightning thought it was fine. Don’t be mad your team’s GM isn’t using a legal loophole. Sincerely, A diehard Lightning fan.

Don't forget that they, also, didn't have to give up any players when the Kraken had their expansion draft. They were the only team exempt from giving up any players.

*Can anyone explain the loophole with Hertl? What do you mean if he's ready for playoffs? He's already back and playing. I know he was injured at the time of the trade. But Vegas brought him back early. So does that mean he counts as part of the cap? Isn't it just Mark Stone that's circumventing the cap?*

When it happened in 2022, we didn’t think much of it. When it happened last year, it was convenient. This year? MIGHTY convenient. Especially since lacerated spleens typically have a recovery time of 6 months. As one (Vegas) fan on Twitter said; “Gonna be much harder to defend this time around”.

Next year, Mcdavids gonna pull a hamstring 6 weeks out, we will pick up a few top players and hope for knights first round. This rule has to be amended at the very least. Can't become "part of the process" at deadline. For ALL teams.

The Golden Knights were the team no expected to be this successful.

It’s a bad look when Stanley cup teams did it via cap circumvention.

Honestly if their not breaking the rules so if you want to get angry be angry at the league and not the team

I think that every team should start doing this, so maybe,, just maybe NHL commitee (or idk how do you call NHL rules makers) would extend the salary cap into playoffs.

None of the owners voted against the rule. It’s a part of the game at this point

I understand some of the criticism and eyebrow raising over it. However, majority of teams besides I believe 2 or 3 voted to keep it the way it is.

The league just needs to change the rules to have the salary cap remain in effect in the playoffs as well as the regular season. Problem solved.

The Fleury debacle alone was enough to show me this is a classless organization.

It seems like, these days, if you don't abuse the loophole then you're at a disadvantage. Someone will do it and you'll be punished. I'm not sure why they haven't fixed this rule issue yet.

Gamesmanship has always been a part of the game on the ice. Fans understand this. In the cap era, it is also a part of the game off the ice. For whatever reason, many do not understand this.

I don't like Vegas like most people but I'm sorry if your GM isn't taking advantage of the LTIR cap circumvention then he's not doing his job. Every team has players that you could use to circumvent the cap for some reason a lot of teams don't. So these fans should be more upset at their own team for not cheating the system the way Vegas does cause at the end of the day a fanbase that wins the cup doesn't care about hoe other fanbases feel about their organization and they will be remembered for winning the cup not cheating the system

Not a Vegas fan, but it's their job to give themselves the best chances to win under the rules. Problem is the fact that the league is giving the possibility to ice a team over the cap when it actually matter if they have been "fortunate" enough to have injuries at the right time.

Vegas !! Stone healing was excellent. This a very good team😎

As an Ottawa fan why is anyone complaining? Every other team can do it too. Be mad at your own team for not being smart enough to use all the rules.

if the avs wanted to win they shouldn't have played like shit for half the game. that has nothing to do with ltir. they thought they could just coast and defend the lead after going up 3 and that's just not how it works. also maybe toews should try playing some actual defense and tie up his man so he can't just sit there and tip the puck for the gwg...

All they need is a rule that a player returning from ir can't put the current team over the salary cap. How frigging hard is that?

Just in time..... again. This is getting ridiculous.

I used to love the Golden Knights, I default like teams unless the city they're in sucks. But the Golden Knights pattern of shipping off players, abusing IR, and the way they've behaved on the ice have made me dislike them. One of the few teams I like the fanbase but not the team.

I mean, fairly simple solution. If Mark Stone is such a paper tiger, should be pretty simple to spend your first game just laying dumpster hits on him all night until he bleeds and then he can sit for the rest of the series right? In a 7 game series against a bunch of cheaters, I’d say that’s worth it right?

They are my third favourite team with Carolina and Jets coming ahead of them. Even though I don't lie that Jets could legitimately play Vegas if they beat the Avs which they proved the can. I do like Vegas. Their GM is incredibly smart, their roster has pure passion and they have incredible skill when they are healthy and playing well. Getting Hanifin, Mantha and Hertl was huge but a bit sad at how Mantha hasn't shown extreme skill with the team but hopefully he can heat up a bit and help the team out a ton more. Some people will say this roster is worse than last year but I can argue that. Yeah they lost Kessel and Smith which has extreme offense as Kessel in his prime was a goal scorer and Reilly Smith is a goal scorer as well but got more assists on average with Vegas. But I think Hanifin, Mantha and Hertl beat that. First off they got a wing while both Kessel and Smith were wings (I know Smith not 100% on Phil Kessel) they got a wing, a VERY good center and a very good two way defensemen in Hanifin. Overall I think that is better but may just be me.

You mean the Vegas Bettman’s because he’s the one who needed a successful expansion after flops like Atlanta plus the relocation of Arizona and with the added Betting elements I would not be surprised if games were fixed

All these people saying his injury and the timing is authentic is repulsive. He’s injured the same time of year three seasons in a row and people say it’s authentic? Get a grip. It’s cheating.

this is not going away and farming content from it is super cringe

Thank you!!!! Basically took the words right out of my mouth Johnny

Don't hate the players, hate the game....and Bettman, haaaaaaate Bettman.

Can't fault a team for playing within the rules. In fact, Kudos to them for doing it. Like most NHL issues (ex. officiating) the fault is with the league and the way they overlook problems as long as they can, especially when it interferes with making more money.

honestly, great. I’d rather a team I cheer for be considered villains because they’re too good than for other, less savory reasons. Like others have said, if your team’s GM ain’t playing the salary cap like Vegas (and Tampa) has then they are objectively not doing their job. The fault for that lies with the NHL and will until they decide to do something about it.

Everyone that brings up how its convenient they are healthy for the playoffs but not the regular season. I really don't think its because theyre being stopped from coming back, more that they are coming back early and arent fully healed. Kucherov looked slow when he came back. Like we know players play injured all the time, it really feels more likely this is the case, rather than players not being allowed to play while healthy.

Hertl wasnt even available 😂 and had a full no move clause but VGK management is best and made it happen #goknightsgo

i always like to take moments like these and remind people that the avs went 16-4, tied for the best playoffs record ever, without abusing ltir or even going over the cap at all... truly the best team.

I despise Vegas as much as the next guy, but the silver lining here is their team will and is aging FAST. They have just one former 1st round pick prospect, after trading Edstrom to San Jose in their system and have traded a lot of their better upcoming picks away for win-now veterans too. These trades and success will eventually catch up with them soon and will hit them like a truck.

If what Vegas is doing is so simple then why aren't other teams doing the same? All teams have access to the salary cap rule book.

as an avs fan, we choked and we choked hard. Scheduling definitely didn't help(back to back road games suck) but we could've done better

As a torontonian, good for vegas. and everyone else, (leafs included), get good or fold. Ppl be using the cap as an excuse for a severe lack of imagination and i got no time for that crap.

It should infuriate the Hockey world. Don't forget, there was SERIOUS Talk of having a parade down LV Blvd after they LOST the Stanley Cup in 2018. I know, I was living there at the time. Eventually someone talked them out of it, but the fact that it was even slightly considered just speaks to the arrogance, stupidity and overall classlessness of the entire organization. Not to mention the way they did Marc-Andre Fleury dirty. Just inexcusable. Fuck the golden showers.

Make the cap count in the playoffs as well, problem solved.

The fix to this is having a minimum games played threshold for players during the regular season. If you don't play in at least 70 games you are not eligible for the playoff roster.

Two things that get missed in the Vegas discussion: 1. The revisionist history of the expansion draft. Yes the NHL allowed them to draft at a competitive level, but every pundit thought they were going to be garbage that first season. Many people felt they squandered their picks and no one thought that Smith, Marcheassault, Karlson, or Peron would be anything more than ok. B. No one recognizes how ruthless (in a good way) Vegas management has been. They execute cap gymnastics and roster management better than anyone. They’re willing to unload a great player/coach if it’s a net positive. The timing of all the LTIR stuff comes from a management point. Look at Stone and Eichel injuries last year. Many teams are willing to let guys play through that but Vegas’s management has them get surgery/rehab on a schedule that frees up cap space and makes them available for the playoffs.

I love how tough hockey players are but how weak their fanbases act. Bring the hate, we don't care! GO KNIGHTS GO!!

I'd like an independent investigation of the medical staff of Las Vegas, please.

Simple fix. Playoffs are cap restricted just like the Playoffs. This system is so dumb and punishes healthy teams so hard, and rewards teams that have elite players that are made of glass mid season. Some how then come back early in the playoffs 110%. I really can't wait for Mark Stone to go on LTIR next year in Feb/March with another long term injury. Only to come back for game 1.

to be fair to vegas people are blowing this out of proportion. I understand the frustration but vegas is not the first time to do this and you can’t get mad at an expansion draft when that blame should fall under the commissioner for the way he set it up. Teams have done it in the past and will continue to do it, only reason people are getting mad at vegas is because boston has stopped being the bad guy and they are nitpicking someone else instead of them (not a vegas fan)

As a native Las Vegan for over 40 years.......I really am enjoying all the salty whining and crying from all these other teams and fans..... It sustains me...🤣

Yes I remember TB doing this with Kucherov, keeping him on LTIR for many months.

Stone returned to practice eight days before the playoffs, exactly the same number as last year. I guess they figured out exactly how much time it takes to get back in playoff condition and planned it out for this year. That said, it's not against the rules -- but don't be mad if everyone knows _exactly_ what you're doing (again) and think it's lame. Shame the NHL doesn't see it that way as well.

I'm sorry but does the rest of the league not have the same opportunity to do the same. Don't hate on Vegas because your butt hurt that you're organization fails you as a long suffering fan to use every means legally available to them in always go hard for the cup. So tired of this ongoing nonsense . I never posted a comment on this subject, but it's getting old. Thanks for your content bro.

Lightning with Kucherov started all this . Now Vegas is just abusing it 😒

He scored the first goal for Vegas in the playoffs😂😂

I think the expansion draft format is great and allows new teams to be able to compete right off the bat BUT the LTIR loophole needs to be closed ASAP

I look forward to watching stone get HAMMERED this playoff season. No more "feeling bad" for Stone and the amount of hits he takes, they're cheating, they know it, we know it, but but face Bettman won't change it. I would LOVE to see someone like Desharnais PIN STONE to the boards, and watch him crumble. Not to permanently damage the man, bit to end his playoffs.

I want the contact details of Stones doctor, seems he could write a compelling sick note to my boss.

Why is Vegas the only one who gets to draft like that?

At the end of the day this is a NHL problem, not a Vegas problem. That being said, if Mark Stone is playing day one in the playoffs, whichever team is playing them should make that the hardest game he's ever played. IMO, they should suspend the cap 2 weeks before the trade deadline so every team can do what they want for their respective playoff pushes. You would still have to be cap compliant at the beginning of the next season, but healthy teams wouldn't repeatedly get punished by this BS.

To think that Vegas actively puts one of their best players, who is having one of his best seasons ever, on LTIR so they can almost miss the playoffs, and get the last spot in the west is absurd. Additionally, a team cant just put some one on LTIR. It has to go through a vetting process. Man hockey has some cry baby fans.

The league handed them a playoff team right out of the gate. They never had to pay their dues.

I think the part that makes this supposed cheat frustrating, is that in the regular season teams would be putting guys on waivers to call these guys back, and therefore be risking contracted players who hold value, as well as risking paying for part of waved players should someone else claim them, with a retained salary that would go against the cap. Come play off time, you can just sit folks out without any repercussions. In the regular season, those sitting would still be considered against the cap until they get waived to the minors. It does build an odd loophole.

The real solution is making LTIR last 5 or 6 months. Players with season-ending injuries will allow the team to find another player in the meantime, and if you realistically want to abuse this loophole, then good luck playing in a team without your first line superstar for 80% of the season.

Isaw this coming, typical vegas

I can't imagine having a front office so inept that they don't do everything it takes to win.

Avs fan here: It's not cheating if if it's not breaking the rules. Change the damn rule and you won't have the problem

Until the league or the other GMs take action, what they're doing is completely legal. It really doesn't make much sense that the salary cap only matters for the regular season, kinda defeats the purpose of the cap providing an even playing ground when it doesn't apply to the most important part of the season. It'd be an easy enough fix to have the team you dress in the playoffs have to be cap compliant, but from the sound of things the other teams aren't eager to make that a rule. I guess in the off-chance they can circumvent the cap in the playoffs themselves one year. Sucks as a fan(unless your team is doing it), but doesn't seem likely that it's going to change any time soon. Maybe if Vegas wins again this year some of the other GMs might change their minds and push for some change.

I mean maybe other teams shouldn’t injure Mark Stone a lacerated spleen is not a joke. I’m convinced that Mark Stone could’ve been killed and people would still be crying about the trade pick ups.