This Controversial Death in Spider-Man WORKED 

Dan Slott's run on She-Hulk was fantastic. I didn't enjoy reading stories about Otto in Peter's body while it was coming out but read it on the app later. It was very well done. Also the moment when the Green Goblin realizes that Peter is back in control of Spider-Man is one of the best Spider-Man moments in the history of the character.

Reading letter pages is always a good time for me. I always wonder how many of those angry readers were actually readers, or are like my Dad, who gets angry over any change to comics status quo, but hasn’t read any since the late 70’s.

This episode was perfect timing with the announcement of slott returning to write superior Spider-Man

I was reading ASM leading up to Superior Spidey, but had money issues at the time so I had to stop reading after issue 11 I think. Years later, just 2 months ago, I finished collecting the rest of the issues and now own the entire run. It's probably one of my fav Spidey stories to date and it definitely cemented artist Ryan Stegman as a personal favorite of mine.

My favourite run of Dan Slott is his Silver Surfer with Michael Allred. That run made me go through so many emotions. And the artwork is just wonderful.

1:55 “Arkham Asylum Living Hell” is one of my favorite Batman stories tbh. It’s so different than a lot of the other Batman stories and has so much going on, but I never felt that it got difficult to read. I’d love to see you make a whole video on it lol.

I wanted to hate it! BUT, I bought Superior Spiderman #1 on a whim and was like 'oh I like this!'

This is by far my favourite modern Spider-Man story, all the better for letting it play out over a year and across all other Spidey appearances. Writers seemed to relish doing the character “The die has been cast!”

I'm really glad you talked about Superior Spider-man, in my case, it was the run that made me like comic books in first place. I was skeptical at first considering the whole controversy with Otto taking over Peter's bodies, but in the end it made me eat my words and really appreciate the run for what it was.

The two letters you cite: I sympathize with the second writer. If a title is not making you happy, leave. Save your money. As for the first writer, well, I'm always a little dumbfounded by fans who can't recognize an obviously-finite plotline when it's introduced. Insert "First time?" meme here.

The extreme hatred and death threats Mr. Slott received during his run on Superior Spider-Man still surprise me even a decade later. Like... It's fine to not enjoy something, that's just how life is, but don't threaten to murder someone over a comic book. That just makes you (The Reader/Fan) look beyond petty. Besides... There's nothing wrong with a Redemption arc. More importantly, Marvel naturally wouldn't let their biggest cash-cow stay dead.

Superior Spider-Man made me buy the book again after a long drought. And...I really loved the Spider-Man Human Torch miniseries and had the fortune to ink the last two issues over Ty Templeton. The double-edged sword is that, while I loved inking it, I now I knew how the book would wrap up, A self-spoiler alert! lol

reading the whole arc as it was published, i thought it was great; a gamble on behalf of marvel to allow it to occur at all, original and creative & also lending itself to a deeper study of heroism & what it meant to actually become a hero.

The 2018 superior spider-man run is such an underrated story. I high recommend people check it out.

The stuff that was written with mj, specifically jerking off to memories of intimacy of Peter and mj, among other things made me dislike this run.

Another awesome episode, Chris! I was one of the few that liked what Superior Spider-man was doing from the get go. To me it was a much needed change in direction that was, in my opinion, overdue. I think it was clever and innovative and to this day the Superior Spider-man suit is still one of my favorites. Double salute, Chris and I hope you're feeling well. I'll see you for tomorrow's Pros and Cons!

I didn't really enjoy Superior Spider-Man at the time, but I really liked the second volume where Otto got a cloned body with spider powers and relocated to San Francisco (?) with Anna Maria. I was VERY disappointed when Mephisto made a deal with Otto and reverted him to his original body and villainous personality with none of the character development he had experienced. I'm not sure what Dan Slott will do now that he's returning to Superior Spider-Man; I hope he's bringing back the latter version.

I quit Spider-Man after One More Day. I was sick and tired of Marvel Brass doing everything in their power to break up Peter and MJ, finally “winning” with a rejected Clone Saga conclusion deemed “too mystical for Spider-Man”, so I considered it a good jumping off point. From time to time I’ll catch up on recent issues/arc that catch my eye, like the return of Hobgoblin, but I don’t think anything will get me to go back to regular purchasing and reading. I really don’t care for the recent “Paul & MJ” stuff (pretty much everything about that arc is everything not to do for a good Spider-Man story, including the recent conclusion), and while I miss out on experiencing potentially great stories when they happen, I prefer having them vetted so I don’t waste my time and money on potentially bad books. I have read Spider-Verse in trades, and since it brought back the ridiculous “Morlun/Spider-Totem” junk from Straczynski’s early run, I ended up not caring for it (another case of media adaptations executing a story concept way better, see also Civil War and Flashpoint adaptations). I will give this arc a read based on your analysis and recommendation. Thank you.

The Superior Spider-Man suit is by far my favorite of the more recent mainline suit designs (especially its 3rd design). The addition of the claws/talons, the larger mechanical web shooter device things being visibly mounted along the top part of the forearms (especially the exposed metal ones), the mechanical “Spider-Arms”, and reincorporating the underarm web wings all added some really awesome visual dynamics and contrast to Spider-Man’s overall design that makes him more aesthetically/visually interesting and more exciting to watch in action…as I personally have always felt the typical traditional suits tend to be too bland and boring sometimes which imo always leave a bit to be desired. This suit made him feel more spider-like in a very fitting and natural way to the character that I truly wish at least some aspects ended up being permanent inclusions to Spider-Man’s current and future suit/designs. (Obviously not any un-Spider-Man-like gadgets and tech like the little spider drone army tho, haha) Aesthetically, the red & black combo just looks absolutely awesome. From the way the 2nd & 3rd version of these suits incorporate the center spider symbol, to the overall way it’s drawn (especially the eyes), it all just makes it look very unique, fresh and dynamic while still feeling and looking like not too big of a jump from previous traditional Spidey suits.

I remember the discourse of issue one of "wouldnt Ock be SA'ing MJ if they were together without her knowing who he really was" only for the cover to be Superior all over Mary Jane, adding gas to the fire. I jumped in reading Spider-Man during Civil War so I didnt have a dog in the race when OMD and BND happening. I enjoyed (mostly) what i was reading during all of that time.

My favorite part of the whole Superior Spider-Man arc was when Green Goblin realized that Peter got his body back from Otto. That panel with look on Osborn's face once he figured it out should be hung in the Louvre.

I was really broke when this series came out. Luckily, my roommate was collecting comics at the time, and he let me read what he was buying. I read the first few issues but didn't finish (if I remember correctly) because I just couldn't get into it. But my roommate absolutely loved it. Who knows? Maybe I'd have a different opinion of it reading it again almost fifteen years later.

I know people slag on Dan Slott, but he had the most unenviable task I could think of: - Fans are pissed over the way the last run ended. - The previous run was still mostly well received, so you have high standards to live up to. - You can't work to undo or criticize those events because those decisions were made by your boss.

I have no problem with writers killing off Peter Parker. As long as they always eventually bring him back via cloning technology.

I thought that Dan Slot run on this issue was superior as well his run on "Big Time Spider-Man” and course the "Spider-verse”. I have spoken with Dan many times in person and on Twitter, he is a very creative artist and he share with me about how his editor told him , “He was too violence with Spider-Man and after the Spider -Verse he had to tone it down’’. I said,’’ that when you were at your most created and best and shouldn’t have told you to hold back’’. He told me in 2016," that was the reason why he was going to be leaving Amazing pretty soon". And in 2018 he was out but he went down swinging . I like this video on my favorite book that brought me back to “Spidey” good video essay Comic Tropes.

Congratulations on 200 k subs Chris

Great video but i gotta say I was one of the people turned off by Slotts weird love of Doc Ock. The weird memory gag where Otto remembers having sex with MJ and Peter remembers an encounter with...uhhh Aunt May is super messed up in a way I did not want in my comics. That being said he got some good stuff out of the concept but it was all a bit too mean spirited for me.

Congrats on 200k subscribers! Well deserved

Superior is the run that really stands out to me as it was running when I was first introduced to weekly 0 day downloads on Wednesdays. I look back on the run, as well as that time in my life very very fondly.

Was it a coincidence that this came out the day after a new solo for superior was announced?

Slott took over full reigns of Spidey with issue 649 and the “Big Time” arc. Issue 546 was the start of Brand New Day and that’s when Slott was part of the writing team. That said, I really enjoyed Superior. It gave us not only a look into Ock’s mind and a deeper look into the Spidey mythos, but it also gave a bit of a reboot because the characters of both Ock & Peter had become stale. I also really enjoyed the version of Otto that initially showed up post-Superior. He was still a bad guy but not entirely villainous and being in a more “physically perfect” body gave him a swagger that he hadn’t had before. The worst part of the post-Superior ASM was the way certain plot points that should’ve made for great scripts for years to come were dropped. Things like Superior’s brutal bearings of Jester and Screwball, his harsh treatment of his superhero allies and most importantly, the flat out murder of a supervillain, we’re basically tossed aside as “oh that was Ock, I got better”. That murder should’ve been fuel for an arc in and of itself and to see it just disappear felt like Peter’s unmasking being undone all over again.

12:14 What is that movie with Burgess Meredith? Fun fact for me, he grew up in Rockland County, NY.

Was reading Spider-Man comics during that time and was really a fun ride, i love how a first he gave Peter his best time in in terms of stabilitty (well paid job, be a respected hero and be in multiple teams) only to lose all to Otto who ended enjoy it And i really aprecciatte what he did Otto from be the the dude with mechanic arms who was always beating by Spider-Man to be a real threat to the world and Spidey to the point to killing him and later take the mantle himself

I haven't seriously read Spider-Man or Western comics in general since Maximum Carnage, and discovering anime and manga shortly after that and not looking back. I watch your channel because you do great work, I like your perspective and take on things, and the topics and historical information you cover are genuinely interesting even without being a "comics fan" since jr. high... and listening to the summary of this arc makes me genuinely want to read it. It honestly sounds more like a good Manga arc, than what I normally expect from the comics industry (I'm sure there have been plenty of truly good arcs that I'm just not aware of... but anyone familiar with Japanese vs Western pulp storytelling should get what I mean). I would really enjoy reading this, and will keep it in mind as something to get to.

I loved this run! Been reading Spider-Man since the 70s and I like when the writers do a good job with thinking out of the box. Great video!!

in my opinion that best thing that came out of this run was a spinoff title by the name of (the superior foes of spider-man), everything about it was near perfect the story line, the humor, the banter between the villains, and how we see the fallout of some of the fights with a more brutal spider-man, I can't forget how great that comic was to this day it was like (how I met your mother) or (f.r.i.e.n.d.s) but with supervillains, it left such an impression on me that I am using (Boomerang) as my profile picture to this day.

Great job as always!

If I were an actor, Great White Shark would be my dream role. I adore Dan Slott’s Arkham Asylum story, even though I’m not a fan of the magic stuff that pops up by the very end.

Terrific video essay, as always, and love the shirt too (I just printed off the Street Wolves this week and plan to get it to the table, this summer). :)

It was a good storyline, but Slott is a 20/80 sort of writer and Superior was in his 20%. The remaining 80%? Ehn.

Chris, congratulations on reaching 200k subscribers. Good video as usual.

When i read Superior Spiderman when i was a wee young lad, it was so refreshing at the time even tho so many people were hating on Slott's run. I will say the Christos Gage helmed Superior Spiderman comic from 2019 was awesome, especially the art from Mike Hawthorne. Tho i was sad all the development for *spoilers* Doc Ock got reset back to square one after he got a clone bod of his orginal body (im still pissed about that lol). Amazing video as always, Chris!

Superior Spider-Man had an amazing start, but at the time I felt like they rushed the ending because people couldn't stop crying over Peter, even tho it was pretty obvious from the very beginning he'll come back eventually.

Seeing the run right now with Zeb Wells makes me appreciate Slott’s run 10 times more, and I originally already loved the take Slott took with Spider-Man, I own every Superior issue.

I have the omnibus in both hardcover and paperback. I was one of the upset fans at first but the more I looked into it the more I liked it. Awesome version of Spidey to have swinging around out there in the Spider-Verse imo.

First time I've been recommended a comic tropes video in a long time and it's about one of my favorite Spider-Man runs? This is a win win!

Great episode! I enjoyed this run

During college I was picking up practically every book released every week with One More Day not only coming out around the last time I dropped out but also kept me far away from Spider-Man. When I heard the buzz around Superior I decided to at least keep an eye on it, still wasn't ready to be investing so much money following so many books, and honestly it was a major shake up done correctly. I had read a little of Slott's work prior and he definitely one of the more consistent and entertaining writers out there.

This was a very interesting video regarding Spider-Man storylines that I wasn't aware of. Thank you Comic Tropes.

Honestly, your video has made me interested on checking out some Spider-man books since McFarlane run. Excellent video as always, Chris!

I've never really read Spidey, but you made that arc sound really interesting! Thanks as always!

Honestly, Superior Spiderman is one of my favorite versions.

Great episode, Chris!!!!

Where is that black and white clip from with amazing fantasy 15 in the background from?

I used to read and love the ditko/lee/romita run, and never really read a lot more of SM, except for the ultimate version, wich I like a lot too. Back in that time I wanted to start Spiderman again and what drive me in was the artist, Humberto Ramos, I was really amazed by his growth as an artist at that time, I knew him from Crimson something and Spectacular spiderman, and when I saw what he was doing I start reading, it was wierd, the last thing I had read of amazing sm was from the 70s, and I liked, it was fun, but the art was the main atraction in the beginin and I stuck for the story, I left the series a few issues after the peter comeback.

Only run I´ve dipped in since the awful clone mess, pretty fun, great episode! Tks Chris 🤙

I remember talking to Dan Slott (Or who I thought was him) in youtube comments back then and telling him it was an interesting idea and that i would keep reading although I was really sad for peter. I like to think it was him haha.I was like 15. I also own a copy of Sp-Ock #1 signed by him!

We need more stories like this. People complained at the time, but it was fresh and one of the reasons I jumped back into comics as a 20 year old.

That's great and succinct review of that ark, by now we all Ock ended giving back the body so that is not a spoiler in my book. The base idea was bonkers and very much a leap of faith for the readers with body change trope but with the added dramatic effect of "killing Peter". But what's important is the character journey that was started with it. And the story resonated on the Spiderverse crossover because the conflict of the real Peter from Earth 616 and the superior Spider-Man was one of the main plots in the story with the strife in the Spidermen for leadership. And in spite of all the very melodramatic fan outcry , I think Slott did ease into it very organically: he first introduced the old and sick Doctor Octopus,who sometimes had been portrayed as a more sympathetic villian , as dying man who had been consumed by his worst instincts and now just wanted revenge before the grave took him; which also felt unique for the villian but also for comics in general. And it was a dramatic change in the character design too(I loved it) to have Otto basically just a hunk of metal containing his dying body, you could see visually how the stakes were higher.So the writing was in the wall that Ock was dying soon, and it was a stroke of genius and desperation for him to plot to take over his body, so from a character pov in made total sense. And it's good drama to have the heroes loose every once in a while, specially Spider-Man I would argue. Great work Chris, as always 👍😊👍

I really enjoyed this run with Otto in Peter Parker's body being Spider-Man. Otto's character got to shine and made me look at Dr. Octopus in a way that I hadn't previously.

There were some interesting stories with Doc Ock being Spiderman. But the whole ghost Peter Parker was ridiculous.

This is my FAVORITE spider man run ever! Excited to see what 2023 Superior Spider Man will bring that just got announced!

I remember reading plenty of Dan's run back when I was in highschool (from Big Time through Superior Spider-Man) Amazing Spider-Man 698 blew my mind when it released

I liked the first Superior Spider-Man story, I think it went a bit off the rails at parts, but overall, I thought the emotional parts were great and the story really worked. But what I really LOVED was the second Superior Spider-Man comic (the one Christos N. Gage wrote in 2019). One of Marvel's most underappreciated comics from the last decade. It sucks it ended after just 12 issues, and it sucks that it ended the way it did, I would have read 100 issues of that versio of Otto. Such an amazing comic.

First great job as always, A little error regarding the placement of spider-verse in regards of Superior. Superior has been "relaunched" (two more issue, if I recall correctly) during Spider-verse event. And the Spider-man during spider-verse was the one from the current relaunch (after the first cancellation of Superior), so Superior was from the past (Superior wrongly believed, at first, that the other 616 Spider-Man came from the past)

Dan Slott also gave us Spiderman Renew your vows which is absolutely adorable.

"Eventually, things go back to the factory default" Unless a movie comes out and sets the new factory default

Always appreciate your episodes, Chris!

I wonder if there was a similar level of fan vitriol when Magneto was made Headmaster of the Xavier school in the 80's?

Superior Spiderman was one of my favorite archs! That was also when I got back into collecting again and was so happy I did!

This was a great video, thanks Chris c:

Dan Slott's only problem was his agreement to continue on Peter and MJ's seperation (but there is "Renew Your Vows" ). In contrast, Nick Spencer's only good thing he did was getting back them together. On Spencer's run, i never felt that i'm reading about Peter Parker. He was like photocopy of himself or watered down version. That "Kindred" storyline was a neverending nothing burger. Altough, right now with Zebb Wells, everything is worse, everything. None of the 616 Universe characters are acting like their own.

I love how informative Comic Tropes is. Have you ever done an episode on Cliffhanger and Joe Madureira? They label and that guy shook my faith in comics as a teen and it wasn't until about 5 years ago that I started giving comics a shot again. As a grown man I find this type of channel fits my interests in comics perfectly.

Yeah I like this story. Where I live it was published originally in 13 compilatory issues which of I have half. Some day I'll complete that small collection but I haven't seen them on used book stores

SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN WAS EXCELLENT. I have read Spider-man since 1967. This was the best storyline since Ditko left the book ... and i mean that.

Solid run, excellent coverage.

I honestly adore the Superior story. However, it makes me sad that comics had to return to the status quo -- not because I wish Peter would've stayed gone, but because I wish Doc Ock would've stayed a hero! Whether he would return as he eventually did, to live alongside Peter as his own hero, or just stuck with his hero's death, reversing his incredible development was the worst thing they possibly could've done with him. But they had to bring back the villain, and it was only disappointing and frankly disrespectful to this excellent tale. And of course, it had to be Mephisto. It's like they're making fun of us.

congratulations for the great work here.

it still makes no sense why Otto would want to live on Spider Man body Gus Fringe living inside Walter White body could make for good stories? yes! but would he?

Oh I was wondering if this would be about Superior! I love the original arc of that series.

I really liked the story arc. I can see how some people were upset as the way it was written you could maybe think that Peter would not be able to get back. It was bold writing. I also enjoyed how Doc Oc tried to be better with spider bots spying on everyone and how that all backfired on him. The various moves back and forth made sense. It was also a really action packed story arc. As you touch on, the different behaviour of Spidey-Oc only served to highlight what Peter is all about.

i have this wild idea for an alternate universe/telling of "one more day" where MJ doesn't agree, and thinks that may wouldn't want that, which drives a wedge between her and peter, leading him to become depressed, and even to lash out, like he did when he was originally infected with venom, only he doesn't have venom to blame, its all him this time. where does that leave him, how does he move on, can he accept MJ's choice or will he go against her and mays wishes, i think it could be a very good story.

Great episode. I have to wonder if much attention has been given to the fact that any physical affection/intimacy in this arc is not consensual, since the consciousness is Otto

A few important corrections: Spider-Verse happened *after* Superior Spider-Man, once Peter had regained his life, with Otto being slightly in the future rather than slightly in the past. It's actually a bit of a plot point that, when Otto faces Peter during Spider-Verse, he initially thinks that Peter is from his past rather than his future. A fun fact is that Slott originally intended for Spider-Verse to take place during Otto's tenure as Spider-Man, but eventually held on to the idea until Peter returned and could headline the story himself. The original Superior Spider-Man run ended in issue #31 with Peter's return. Issues #32 and #33 were released a few months after Amazing Spider-Man had come back. What happened is that Superior Spider-Man #19 had Otto disappear into the future and come back. It would be later revealed that his off-panel absence corresponded to his participation in Spider-Verse, with issues #32-33 being a prelude to Otto's involvement in the story. So the sales number for issue #31 would be a better indicative of the book's popularity during its end. Superior Spider-Man also didn't quite happen while Andrew Garfield's films were in theaters. Amazing Spider-Man #700 came out in December 2012, and Superior Spider-Man #31 came out in April 2014, so the story was basically sandwiched between the release of the two films, with Peter's triumphant return predictably coinciding with the release of The Amazing Spider-Man 2.

To pull off such a hard concept in such a good way was amazing. Also Superior Foes of Spider-Man was a lot of fun. I wish Taika did a tv show of that comic instead of doing Thor movies.

Amazing video as always! Spectacular! Some might even say.... Superior! And to the corner I go!

Fans will be fans, I’ve been a big Spidey fan since the 1970s and I found the storyline bizarre but over time it did work itself out. Changes such as the Superior Spider-Man story arc are necessary for character growth despite the assertion that by now, what more growth does Spider-Man need? Great video!

Like a lot of people, i stopped reading asm before this storyline. When i got back into comics, I read a quick summary of this storyline, and didnt seem too interesting at the time. So i skipped it. After watching your video though, i now feel like i missed out and i should give it a read. Thank you for another great video!

I'm working my way through reading all the Spider-Man 616 stuff. I just got to some of the first of the Scarlet Spider books, so I've got a while yet to get to the Superior Spider-Man, but I'm excited to get there.

I have some catching up to do!

Great video! I wanted to offer a critical factual correction: this absolutely was a case of bringing a character back in time for a movie. #31 was the proper ending of the series and, in the letters pages, Dan Slott confessed that editorial's only restriction on the Superior run was that the real Peter Parker had to be back when Amazing Spider-Man 2 released in theaters. 32 and 33 came out noticeably later and aren't even included in the "Complete Collection (vol. 2)" that I own.

My favorite part of Superior Spider-Man was Otto using his body being taken over by Venom as an excuse to handwave away his suspicious uncharacteristic behavior as of late, only for that excuse to cause his peers to suspect him more.

You should have talked about the second superior Spider-man arc. I really enjoyed superior spider-man. it was excellent.

Didnt read superior, but, I did come back the issue he returns and Gobbies reaction to him is priceless

I need to read this some day. I wasn’t reading comics when this came out.

I remember clearly reading the death of Peter and into superior when I was in Year 12? I really felt like it was permanent change - but Damn did it get me more invested in comics as a whole.

another great vid!

I don't believe someone read Spider-Man from 1971 to 2012 and Superior Spider-Man was where they draw the line 😅 Old mate was fine with Spider-Man getting 4 extra arms, clone saga, Android parents, Sins Past, One More Day, etc.

The fact that fans are so averse to change, even when it’s interesting (and clearly temporarily) is a big cause of so much of the ennui in superhero comics and media

Superior spiderman is what started my comic hobby. I always loved spiderman but after seeing the superior vs 2099 paperback i was buying volumes left and right