This Rivian R1T Just Successfully Towed 2,700 Miles - Guess How Many Times It Stopped To Charge! 

🤣

Jaja Jaja

Hahahaha yep

The R1T will eat that Mustang for breakfast.

😂

That is really the stupid design of the charging stations. Some idiot decided to reinvent the wheel instead of making them pull-through like all gas stations are.

Exactly.

Thank you for breaking down the math. Clean diesel is the best option for moving the heavy freight.

@@daniels2761 Or.... maybe they just didn't think about the day where EV's would tow trailers. -Or, thought "That's not going to happen anytime soon" :-)

The Rivian owner *did* disconnect on one occasion. I think the more interesting question is: Why didn't they do it on other occasions? Was it perhaps because these charging stations are nowhere near as busy as Tesla's and there just weren't many other EV's needing to charge?

It'll probably be alright, by the time they say that you're stopping at the next Walmart.

You will never have to hear them ask to stop for a pee!!!! Lol

Could not pay me to do that.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

It will be the last family trip for while

Fast charging cost me about $150 for a 1500mile trip, or $0.10/mile, 1/3 of what it would have cost of I'd driven my gas SUV. I imagine their costs were roughly 3x, so about the same as gas costs of they weren't hauling a trailer.

@@CSHarvey Thanks

@@CSHarvey @Carter Harvey what charging network is this on? I heard Tesla increased their rates in November. As for the cost of towing an ICE vehicle, my dad's F-250 diesel gets 12-14 mpg when towing his boat, and diesel is $3.40, so 30 cents a mile is essentially spot on.

@@Xander-dx6mw then factor in that the trip takes three times as long to make. Once you count all the additional hotel stays alone, you're in a financial hole you'll never dig yourself out of with the little savings the EV afforded you.

Probably would have been cheaper to hire a cross-country shipper for the car than to pay for all the extra charging stops by towing it yourself.

@@mattox6553 what are you talking about? If you're buying a $86K electric vehicle and you can easily afford to ship a vehicle. When you add in the extra days on the road from towing with the electric truck and all the added expenses, it's probably close to a breakeven proposition, especially if you have to rent the trailer.

​@@mattox6553 No you're the one that has demonstrated you have no reasoning skills whatsoever. If you can afford an $86K electric vehicle you can afford to ship a vehicle. If you can purchase an expensive trailer then you can afford to ship a vehicle. Since most people don't make these trips frequently, most people would rent the trailer (I'm trying to dumb this down for you as much as possible). If you purchased the trailer, that would be far more than the cost to ship. If you rented the trailer and added in all the extra expenses from doubling the length of the trip (i.e. food and hotel rooms), then towing an extra vehicle will cost pretty much the same as shipping if not more. Did I dumb that down enough for you?

@@mattox6553 Him saying to ship the vehicle was clearly for a one time move. If your taking 6 trips a year, you would be foolish to buy an electric vehicle for towing.

@@mattox6553 Now you're just making up weird shit that has nothing to do with this video or what I said. You're going to take 6 trips all the way across the country a year and you plan on trailering a jeep behind your Rivian for all those trips? Your scenario doesn't make any sense. Why would you be doing that? Do you have two houses, one in california and the other in michigan?

Or just drive the Mustang? Just a thought…

Powerlines, and power plants need to produce more energy to provide ev charging, infrastructure needs to keep up with demand!!!

EV isn’t always the answer…and that’s alright. Fossil fuels will have their place well into the 21st/22nd century.

@@Anonymous..VQ3.5Lg35 not really, the large majority of ev charging will be at night when grid load is significantly less.

@@Anonymous..VQ3.5Lg35 I know here where I live there putting up solar plants everywhere.It could be partly because of all the new electric vehicles

@@sternumboy1 - Actually there will still be a huge demand during the day as well. Ever driven past a gas station in the daytime where there’s no one gassing up? Now multiply that by 15, about how many time longer it takes to charge vs gas up. (Generous estimate.) Sure some of those will charge at night, but many are on their way somewhere and won’t be able to wait until night. It’s a very real issue.

And thats 2 more hotel rooms at what $150 a night, gas is cheap then.

were also talking about towing 6500lbs vs driving normally...

Maybe the slower trip is a good thing. More frequent breaks for the humans to recharge themselves may help reduce traffic fatalities as a result of tired drivers. Hmm.

What about getting robbed whilst charging.

No way you can drive an EV coast to coast in 5 days..you'd spend closer to 7 days I think. And that's probably a best case scenario. I sure don't want to spend over 50 to 70 hours stopped charging this thing. Maybe while sleeping at a hotel but then there's that additional expense in the room cost. Just wait and see just how many carjacking and robberies start to happen at those charging stations! Lol..good luck you are a sitting duck with dead battery and they know it.

Or, your only vehicle is an EV and you need to get to one place to another towing a trailer on very rare occasions. It would suck, but if it's alike a once a year trip, whatever.

@@JuiceBoxScott Yep, and that is why I explicitly called out "towing".

Then factor in the fact that the trip will take three times as long to make. The additional hotel stays will put you in a financial hole that you'll never dig yourself out of with whatever little savings the EV offered you in the first place.

Then why did they have to stop so many times?

@@JuiceBoxScott but the problem is every manufacturer is going have 0 gas/diesel trucks by 2030, so it's keep old or if you can't a you need new, you can't tow if that's a daily thing......

These are preproduction trucks “sold” to employees and have the standard range battery. Hopefully with some updates and the long range battery that is planned it will be more practical soon. Telsa will dominate with 500+ miles range and significantly faster & more reliable fast chargers

@@olemissjim Unless we build more electric generation facilities, we are just blowing smoke. Our existing electric generating grid has nowhere near the capacity to meet the demands of the public when these electric vehicles are jammed down our throats by the millions. WE NEED MORE GENERATING CAPACITY! It just won't work.

EVs are junk for towing, no surprises here.

Not to mention that it takes much longer to charge than it does to fill up your tank with fuel.

@@billjamison2877 not true. The grid has massive energy at night, so much they have to pay to get it offline. EVs mostly charge at home and the built in systems can leverage non-peak hours.

They should have gotten a Uhaul

That's a perfect example of too much money and no brains...

I’m waiting for the “ don’t you want a half hour break every 100 miles” comment.

@@slimtny just a bunch of yuppies with too much money !!! I bet you they feel like idiots now a hundred miles on a charge??? what a joke!!! What a scam 🤣🤣😂🤣🤣

@@slimtny that always pissed me off. No i dont want a break. In fact, I dont want a break until I hit the 300 mile mark. and I only want to stretch my legs. Id much rather relax AT MY DESTINATION

LOL

That's true but most manufacturers I've researched have this battery life management built into the charge control system which in effect means you have more battery capacity than stated but the charge control system only allows a safe minimum and maximum while you see on the gauge 05%and 100%. There's no need to self impose limits, or at least there shouldn't be. Not that this wouldn't have still been an exercise in frustration but there was probably 600 miles or roughly 5 stops to be on the safe side they could have left out if they had allowed the max available range to play out. Of course that also depends on the spacing of available charge points. I have a couple of friends with Tesla's and they report that it's not that charging is not available but that the locations may not be where you want to stop or are ready to stop but you have to because the next point is too far away. EV tech is not yet ready for prime time in any capacity but without a dramatic beakthrough in battery tech commercial use is a long way off.

Not that it makes it better, but they might have calculated it as quicker with that method because the battery will charge quickly in that range. Charging rate tapers down as you get closer to 100%, so you would be better off charging again vs waiting for that last 20% to complete at a much slower rate.

For it's time gasoline was a miracle, and like you say it revolutionized affordable access to long distance travel. We would not be where we are today without it. However, it's still important to understand the need to move on. Regardless of environmental concerns (which are obvious but some people don't really care), there's the fact that it's a finite resource that will inevitably run out as well as the fact that it relies on mining, processing, and distribution networks that have been shown in recent years to be more fragile than we may like to think. This leads to wide swings in prices and availability, and even total unavailability that immobilizes chunks of the population at it's worst. While battery technology is no where near matching gasoline in terms of refueling speeds and energy density, electric powertrains as a concept can provide objectively better performance with substantially more reliability and less regular maintenance. When combined with a more decentralized power grid built around localized solar/wind energy generation and storage it has the potential to be a much more robust and stable platform that is far less sensitive to global supply chains and truck/ship distribution networks, and more resistant to the ever increasing rate and severity of natural disasters that pose a huge risk to traditional supply chains. Nonetheless, batteries will likely need decades more research to resolve issues with charge speed, energy density, rare/expensive metal usage, mining, and disposal, and weight. In fact, batteries may still end up fading out in favor of hydrogen fuel cells or other forms of miniaturized power generation to power electric drivetrains. However it ends up working out, I'm excited for the momentum that electric vehicles have and look forward to the point when gasoline becomes obsolete.

It's easy to overlook that when the combustion engines for automobiles first became the norm, engines were not efficient and emissions were terrible. It took decades of R&D to build cars with better fuel efficiency and relatively small emissions. (From 1975 to the '90s, for example fuel efficiency got about 75% better and by 2020 was 100% better.) This is no miracle. It is "slow", steady progress when you (and the economics) have invested in a platform. We are now just starting to invest in all-electric as a platform for powering automobiles seriously. It is not surprising that we have a lot of work to do. In another 20-30 years, it will feel miraculous, too.

@@most_awesome That's a good point, and it's one of the most interesting and frustrating things about capitalism. We end up spending so much more money making outdated systems work better than we spend on starting from scratch with new systems. For over 100 years we've been deeply investing into efficiency and performance improvements on ICEs when we could've been developing the EV system in parallel and probably ended up with something better. The nuclear industry is another example of that; we've spent decades polishing the literal turd known as light water uranium reactors, when there are dozens of more advance models that could out perform in every possible metric (efficiency, cost, safety, waste) if someone would just commit the money to starting that development process.

To it’s credit, gasoline is still a marvel. It is actually very cheap to produce, easy to transport, safe to store and energy dense. Now, how we use it is where efficiency and responsibility come into the equation, but it’s role in our prosperity can’t be understated.

@@chriswilson433 I agree with you, though I'll make some additional points as a response not out of disagreement but instead just because I like having discussions about this kind of thing. 1. Prosperity is a tricky topic, because it is often viewed very narrowly. On one hand the industrial revolution as a whole has made us objectively more prosperous. We live longer, have access to more variety of locations, foods, experiences, cultures, ect. We get more and better stuff for cheaper, across the board. But on the other hand, the gasoline and plastics and concrete that have enabled such a revolution have decimated large swaths of our planet. Are we objectively more prosperous as a species? Or are we just more prosperous as a generation within our species? For example, is the wood that builds our houses worth the loss of the Amazon rainforest? It sure is nice to have houses, our standard of living is peaking in nearly every country at nearly every economic level. But the Amazon accounts for 25% of our planet's ability to process C02. It's not so easy to just say that more money or more industry or more economic activity inherently equals more prosperity. So yeah, again you are correct about how key gasoline has been to our economic prosperity because of how much it has enabled transportation both in private and commercial sectors. But there are other forms of prosperity to be worried about. Though that being said, it's not like EVs are a magic unicorn of all forms of prosperity. Lithium is nasty stuff to mine, manufacture into batteries, drive around on our roads, and then dispose of as waste. Most other components of an EV are the same in terms of sheet metal, glues/chemicals, glass, tires, gearboxes, plastics, ect. And of course there's the classic question of how the power that charges your battery is generated. But a sustainably produced EV (like Rivian aims for) COMBINED with decentralized renewable energy production and 20 years of battery R&D has the potential to be a more long term solution.

Rates will easily increase by 50% if not more in the next few years once more are on the road and the government slaps on road taxes. I'm all for converting to electric and have a Rivian on pre-order but can't help feeling like it's all a trap. It's only gonna make sense driving within range of your house and skipping retail rates entirely. Solar will help also

Why aren’t manufacturers pairing the electric motors to a transmission like in a gas car. By having gears the electric motor will have to spin less thus boosting its range.

Longer range would be great... But if it still takes 1.5+ hours to "refill the tank" they are going to have a hard time appealing to the masses.

The 500 mile Cybertruck will be very interesting. The Tesla Semi has 500 mile range at 80,000lbs, so it can be done.

@@MmMerrifieldYou need a fast charger, and a big battery. Big enough that you only need to charge it to 80%, where the charge rate really drops off. The top spec hummer has a monsterous 200kwh pack, which would be kinda slow at 150kw, but not at 350kw. They should test that one too. Also, need to consider how often you are really going to do it. If they are 30 miles from the track, they might only need to tow this far once, and the Rivian will be perfect.

@@fjalics 500 miles range for a semi truck is pretty lame lol diesel trucks can go 2000 miles without refueling and for truckers time is money.

My comment related to this is that even if battery tech is resolved regarding both capacity and charge times, it will be a LONG time before bulk charging locations have capacity to simultaneously fast charge more than a couple of vehicles at a time. The more likely scenario when more folks are driving EV's is significantly throttled bulk charging locations. Home charging isn't the solution either; most homes can't even fast charge present EV technology. EV's charging in every garage during off peak hours would result in new smart meters throttling neighborhood distribution systems and/or staggering home charge times. It isn't cost justified to size an electrical distribution system for peak loading on a sustained basis.

And in Texas they cant even keep the power on without the rise in climate driven wildfires.

It's usually only a few $ per stop.

Plus the extra nights in hotels. That's a deal breaker. Much cheaper and faster to just buy gas.

@@wileymonair If the EV/unreliables crowd gets the government to mandate more solar panels and wind turbines, electricity prices will go to the moon. Electricity is only affordable if it's produced with fossil fuels, nuclear or hydro (and hydro can't scale up to meet the anticipated demand from battery cars).

One of the new 3.0l 6 cylinder turbodiesel trucks would be more affordable than your example.

Yea, the charging infrastructure definitely does NOT account for trailers. Which sucks a lot. Granted trailers ARE getting easier to hook up with the newer trucks. But does anyone really want to unhook, drop off a trailer (possibly a little far away), charge their vehicle, and then go hook back up? You're risking someone hooking up and riving off and for my boat, my GD trailer rolling down the parking lot. Pete Buttigieg recently tried to tout BEVs as the best option for rural folks that need to drive a lot, but NONE of the fast charging infrastructures is located near them or set-up how they would use it!

Exactly. ICE will never compare to the power of electric, but if the battery tech doesn't improve, it won't have to.

They said that 3-5 years ago.

Do I have proof the infrastructure is getting better from what I see and here there is actually more rolling black outs then ever and it has spread so any proof or u just talking shit

@@WinteryearStudiosLosAngeles Porsche 919 Hybrid suggests otherwise. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PQmSUHhP3ug.html

@@dwightvoeks9970 35 years ago😂

With a Tesla Model Y long range you could drive 4 hours, charge 30-minutes while stretching and getting something to eat, then complete the trip. The added 30 minute break is actually good for the body

@@NIAtoolkit may be good for the body, but it gets annoying that you HAVE to stop and have a break, instead of just pushing through and having more time at the destination

@@NIAtoolkit True . But it costs so much more then a hybrid. And now tesla isn't applicable for government rebates because of the prices, the cheapest Tesla in Canada is 60 000.00. Got to pricey

@@nativeoutdoors1780 Never came across this in all my years of EV driving! I can not take back the awesome experiences I've had while charging. I met so many people that I would have never known otherwise. The most influential people on this planet. Shared our stories and experiences with others. It is a party station.

@@binauralauto3621 bruh are you like retired or something? Cuz yeah later on in life maybe I would like to talk to random people, but when its 20 below and your trying to get a load up through a lomg mtn pass with a storm coming, the last thing I wanna do is talk to a person about charging my truck. But in other circumstances maybe I would

These obviously aren't great for towing long distances at this point. There's a lot of people that don't tow long distances, this truck would be great for them.

A diesel truck with an aux tank wouldn't have even needed to stop once for fuel.

@@mark7067 That's possible, but that's gotta be a massive auxiliary tank.

@@AkioWasRight Hey, what do you think hotshot drivers use? They don't have time to waste charging or fueling away.

@@benson8686 Right, grocery getters.

You should watch Long Way Round and Long Way Down, if you haven’t already.

@@markhavelka4924 yes, I did one just gotta watch the other. Thank you for the reminder!

As I recall, the rivian people had to set up sufficient charging infrastructure along the way, before the filming began, just to be able to make that trip.

@@dennisl6198 Yes, you are correct. I also believe a third party did the work and the infrastructure was left in place. They used Harley's and can't remember whether Harley Davidson also chipped in on e-bike charging stations. They had an episode talking about that. I like how TFL injected some reality as part of the podcast. Good discussion.

Did you finally get your rivian?

@@justinstewart3248 I have not, still waiting

@@billwilson4859 do you even yet have access to the configurator?

It is about 50%. 300mi range is 0-100%, but they are doing more like 15-80% in their road trip.

That's also with a $20,000 aluminum trailer, try doing that with a steel dually trailer like most towers use.

@@manuelias86 Still makes it completely redundant for towing. The range in itself is poor, but it's the charging time that really crushes it. One hour charging for every 1 to 1.5 hours driving is ridiculous.

@@tipperarymick5337 I'm not saying it isn't. If I'm towing something large for long distances, I wouldn't even bother with an ev. I'm just correcting the statement.

@@manuelias86 I understand, cheers 👍

Maybe a toothpick?

@@denttech2515 Yours is probably more accurate representation!

I wonder if driving slower while towing will equal a faster trip. I think the wind resistance really starts to ramp up past 55-60. I hope TFL does some range/efficiency testing with EV trucks towing different shaped trailers at varying speeds.

Its pretty much the same reduction as any has vehicule thats what poeple dont realise, you get 20mpg on my truck unloaded and 10 when towing, the problem is not the drop in mileage the problem that everyone is facing ia the charging availability and time, imagjne if 2 orn3 minute charging was available.pretty much anywere it would be just like gas and people would have no problem switching to electric, they need to figure that charging problem and infrastructure before making the cars any better

Its pretty much the same reduction as any has vehicule thats what poeple dont realise, you get 20mpg on my truck unloaded and 10 when towing, the problem is not the drop in mileage the problem that everyone is facing ia the charging availability and time, imagjne if 2 orn3 minute charging was available.pretty much anywere it would be just like gas and people would have no problem switching to electric, they need to figure that charging problem and infrastructure before making the cars any better

@@BeStrong-nf5nc there is a reduction in range for sure, but also most trucks (at least ones I’ve had) are starting out with closer to 500-700 miles of range unloaded. Combine that with still limited charging options, especially in rural areas, and may find yourself limited where you can go when towing.

@@BeStrong-nf5nc I think driving slower while towing could help all vehicles towing, just more important with EVs because refueling is so much more difficult.

This Engineering Explained video explains the problem: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-S4W-P5aCWJs.html

why not order the one with the double sized battery...?

@@ANonymous-pg9xg Whats that15 or 2o grand more money

@JOHN SEAVEY like ten I think. Small price to pay for a significantly bugger usable envelope in every circumstance

Thts nothing

@@andersonrodriguez8258 But that range is very common for most people towing.

Now youre gonna need to cough up $25k more to get the quad motor ct or wait a very long time

I'm ok with that range but I would like to see a charge of under 30minutes.

There’s a guy that tows a smaller airstream with his Model 3. He’s document a bunch of trips on social media.

Even if it’s 30 minutes it’s only going 100 miles so on average it’s an hour and a half driving and sitting waiting for a half hour that makes zero sense unless your trip is under a 50 miles

From what I gathered, they would drive for an hour and a half and charge for an hour, on average.

Using the charge rates TFL stated it would be 60 minutes a charge

@@SeahawkAz using sweet spot of the charging curve, from 10 to 70% and using fast DC chargers I think you can recover in 20 to 30 minutes.

@@SeahawkAz The Rivian can accept up to 190KW. So depending on the station some stops will be 30mins and some could be as long as 60mins.

A new battery that would defy the laws of physics is whats needed. Its not gonna happen. Toyota is smart to continue their work on hydrogen engines. Only thing EV is good for will be commuting short distances to work and back daily, If there are enough power generation plants to support communities of EV's.

Some urban dweller has already planned it out for you. They will simply pass laws to ban ICE. Already doing it in places.

@@MrCPPG as far as I'm aware, these ICE bans largely pertain to inner cores of cities where a giant diesel would be impractical anyways, uless you're talking stuff like the California 2035 EV mandate, which affects new car sales only.

Unfortunately you're right. I couldn't find an EV to get me to Santa Rosa from Sweetwater. There are no fast charges except for a 22 kW in Lubbock. That's about 1.5 miles per minute of charging.

Anyone saying fossil fuel is dead doesn’t understand how critical it is to our infrastructure. EVs won’t be hauling cargo, ag products, livestock or motor homes anytime soon. If your daily commute is less than 50 miles a day and on weekends you don’t venture any further than 100 miles, perhaps you can convince yourself that fossil fuels are no longer needed. But you’d have to ignore every other practical application outside your scope.

@@DirtRoadHymns I'm not quite that pessimistic. The technology is advancing very quickly, more like a cell phone than traditional ICE. I think we'll see commercial applications in the next five years. Commercial businesses will benefit the most because they are huge fuel consumers. Tesla said the only thing stopping it from making the semi is battery availability. There are many more battery plants in the works.

I agree that commercial is where it’s needed most. And perhaps short route commercial will see EVs soon. I just don’t see how they will overcome the two major hurdles for long haul. 1, charge time (over heating the system is a dangerous issue when rapid charging). 2, practical battery life while towing.

@@DirtRoadHymns Higher voltages reduce heating during rapid charging. It won't be an issue for the huge packs they'll use in Class 8 trucks. For the longer distances, it will be awhile. I think electric class 8 will cover distribution routes, where the distance is well known and charging infrastructure can be placed at either end.

why plug-in? think a hybrid not plug-in better. like Andre's F-150

Rather than plug-in parallel hybrid where the engine and electric motors can both power the wheels, I'd love plug-in serial hybrid pickup. The power to the wheels is 100% from the electric motors and the engine is a generator and never directly powers the wheels. This would let the engine always run a peak efficiency/rpm and greatly simplifies the drivetrain. I wouldn't mind if the engine was even a bit undersized and wouldn't give you 100% performance, but was more of a range extender and could just be kind of an onboard backup/generator. Leave it off most of the time until you are down to 15% battery if the battery range is sufficient, but if you are going on a long trip, change it so the range extender ICE kicks on right away and tries to keep up.

@@MikeCameramike Plug in because you can top off the battery at home and have some pure electric range.

I disagree. Most pickup truck owners will never tow, let along tow a second vehicle across the state or multiple states. They use their vehicles to commute. Maybe they stop at the home store and buy a load of mulch once a year. Definitely something an electric truck could do.

@@bill_clinton697 Agreed on plug in. If an BEV pickup won't fill ones needs, at least a PHEV you can commute on full electric all week, but then on those long runs or towing, you have conventional ICE range and convenience. Plus, PHEV typically have a much smaller, cheaper, lighter battery pack because it is meant for those sub-50 mile commutes and there is the ICE for everything else. I like the "hold" button on PHEV so you can choose when to utilize the battery range. So for example you have a 15 miles drive through town or backroads to the interstate, drive on all electric. Then, hopping on the interstate, hit the hold button and run primarily on ICE, reserving the rest of the battery range for when you get off the interstate again in the next city. Turn off hold and again back on full electric.

How many of those has Tesla sold?

Not to mention it doesn't even make sense for most trucking companies.

The thing that doesn’t exist and they have 0 chargers for. Yikes

@@hemiaddiction Agreed that it's probably a long time before it makes sense for EV long distance trucks, but local heavy hauling is a great model for EV. Very similar to buses and van delivery trucks. Typical routes, miles and energy consumption are easy to estimate and plan for. Rigs can recharge overnight and be ready to go the next day. Everything is just supersized to accommodate the needs. Over the road would be tougher because the infrastructure and locations would need a huge investment, but for local, the infrastructure would only need to be spent once and the fuel and maintenance savings will start to offset that. Payback would just need to be calculated for each business to determine how long that payback would be.

I understand the tesla semi is doing test runs from Reno NV to Fremont CA. Not exactly longhaul but certainly not local.

I wholeheartedly agree with your comment.

Rivian will have a larger pack that can do 400 miles unladen. Just need pull through and faster charging.

That has been on my mind for a while now. If you add a trailer, it needs its own power source. Doubt you need more than the FOUR motors in the Rivian

Exactly, just like desist/electric trains. However, these solutions add weight to the trailer reducing towing capacity and if more batteries then you also increase charging time

Except that would reduce available cargo capacity to unacceptable levels. You'd be towing a trailer with nothing but batteries. Hybrid is the only current answer to electric towing. There's a rain trains are diesel electric, not batteries.

@@boduke9428 Yeah, it’s a tough situation given current technologies. If the next evolution of batteries that appears to provide double the energy density per pound compared to today’s batteries, that will help considerably. I’ve always wondered why we weren’t seeing diesel electric hybrids on the market, specifically for trucks. You’d get the best of both, electric torque and efficiency around town, and on highways diesel range, power, efficiency and frankly even its clean running (once up to temp and running at constant speeds). I realize that the issue is cost, but there have been in-transmission electric motor hybrids that could easily be used for diesel truck use. It’s not like we’re going to get cheap mid or heavy duty trucks regardless of what they use for power today, so why not build something that addresses the positives of both old and new technologies?

Tesla Semi? It will make a nice addition to the Smithsonian. Class 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 trucks will be the domain of Hydrogen Fuel Cell EVs. Sure, there may be use cases for EVs in some segments, but in general, FCEVs will dominate. I won't buy an electric pickup truck, but would buy a FCEV truck when they arrive in the next few years, and then you have the best of all worlds, great fuel economy, wonderful for the environment, and operates like a diesel truck.

Nothing to "wake up" from. All EV enthusiasts know the current constraints of towing with an EV and really, that only constraint is range and associated recharge time. No one is trying to tell the world that EV pickups will be great for long distance towing. They will, however, tow great because of the heavier curb weight of the vehicle and the way electric motors put down power. So really it's a range thing. If a potential owner is towing loads lighter than the 6,000+lbs in this example, or more aerodynamic, or shorter distances, this may suffice. For many (like me currently), it will not. But I'm looking forward to the day they do because I love the way EVs put the power down and the extra weight down low will make them handle trailers great. The first batch of EV pickups will cover more use cases than an EV car and hauling around grimy loads in the bed, that one doesn't want in the passenger compartment, is one of them. Added ground clearance over crossovers and cars is another plus. Towing lighter loads (1/3 of max) will be another. And the occasional short distance towing of 11,000 lbs will come in handy such as renting that skid steer or mini excavator for doing some landscaping, using a heavy enclosed trailer locally, etc. that you won't tow with the average EV SUV/crossover.

@@ultradaves Hydrogen is the answer for big trucks and towing. Or stay diesel to be honest.

@@MrChadx1 what do you drive now?

@@MrChadx1 Another hidden cost are tires. The R1T weighs over 7,000 lbs. EVs are running through tires 40 - 50% faster than equivalent class vehicles. So a class 1 or 2 truck will wear through tires far faster than their gas or diesel counterpart. The extra weight is a big issue, but also the significant torque and the way it is instantaneous, it's great for say certain driving situations, but the torque accelerates the life of tires.

Well said, plus the effective unloaded driving range when charging in only the 10-80% part of battery to keep charging speeds up high. Means unloaded they would only be getting around 160-180miles at hwy speeds anyway. So around 100 or so with towing a trailer is very similar to an ice trucks range loss while towing. 👍🏻

Yes...watch the "out of spec" guy's road trips. He just would drive as fast he could between superchargers and run the battery to near 0% on some stretches. Just charging enough to get to the next one. The fastest way to travel in an EV is using this approach (charge just enough to get to the next supercharger).

@@mistermister2085 what would happen if due to road accidents and closures, you would be required to take a detour? I would hate to white knuckle it between charging stations. Probably safest to opt for a full charge.

30 charges = 6 months of wear? Please remove ‘tech’ from your user name

@@CorePathway people, on average, drive 300 miles a week. This truck should need, on average, a charge a week. 6 months is roughly 26 weeks. You do the math

Well you'd be well aware of its failing long before you'd have to drop the dough.

The upside is that the charging network will be substantially better, by the time you get your truck.

Thanks for sharing that. Whenever I towed a small under 4k# landscape trailer with my 2018 f-150 I'd go from 18mpg unloaded to 10mpg towing the trailer, could manage about 12mpg if it was steady state freeway under 70mph. Ice trucks suffer the same fuel economy penalties. Doesn't matter if it's while towing, cold out, hot with a.c. blasting, or with a loaded down bed filled up with crap, especially stuff which causes additional drag. The mileage can decline significantly vs when unloaded. One youtuber posted towing a camping trailer with their 2020 explorer st vs their 2020 model y. And the y consistently lost less effective range while towing vs the tt ecoboost powered st. This is on the same route with the trailer nearly maxing out the y tow rating. I bet it was more efficient because of energy recovered during regen braking. A Ford test engineer for the lightning shared something similar on a RU-vid channel. Where he said everyone was surprised how efficient the truck was in stop and go. Because of regen and having dual large motors recovering energy. So during hwy towing minimal stops yes ev truck range will take a huge hit. But during in town or stop n go like many business do. The ev truck should be even more efficient vs ice model's. Plus much less wear on the brakes due to the regen. All something small fleets and business owners will likely consider very carefully as more ev trucks arrive on the markets. 🤔

@@4literv6 Yes that is typical. They should rename the Ecoboost to Eco or Boost. Into the headwind it was always in the turbo. If you can keep it out its not too bad.

That's 4 1/2 mpg. I think there was something wrong with that truck. My wife's previous vehicle was a 3.5 cc 4x4 EcoBoost with 35 inch tires and could tow a trailer with a seat and 4 seat Polaris RZR that was about 7000 lbs total while getting at worst 11 and best 14 mpg. I know it is eco or boost but only 2500 lbs even with constant high head wind shouldn't be that low. Those trucks don't even know they are towing at that weight. Granted my experience has been all 3.5 rather than 2.7.

Really depends on the route and charging infrastructure there. In my area, where I take distance trips, there are plenty of DC rapid chargers within a mile of a freeway exit - driving from freeway to charger and back to freeway takes about the same amount of time as a gas car to the gas station and back would be - it's only the actual charging time that's longer.

Degradation probably isn't even measurable from this single trip. Tesla found that over 200k miles the average degradation on a model s/x is around 10%. That's not too bad really.

they stayed within the magic number of 15 and 85 percent charge which is where the battery is happiest... charging past 97 percent and dropping below ten percent all the time would be tougher on the battery

Just kill batteries and go back to gasoline. The science is settled

Battery use free electron in metal atom to move between + and -, what is limited by metal itself ,the next generation battery we need electron rich metal atom ,made by nuclear fusion called Chassdeskium.

Big deal. How is that a big takeaway? Nobody disputes that an electric vehicle can tow. The big takeaway is that it's a pain in the azz. It added on tons of time to their trip as well. It's not PRACTICAL !!!

Nope, but what the date is today

All EV charge at a much slower rate the last 20%. It is faster to charge to 80% hit the road and stop more often than it is to sit at one charger all the way to 100% because if that.

You don't ever want to have to charge to 100% at Dcfc if you can avoid it. The rate of charging between 80 and 100% is very slow. The person driving this actually found that things went faster when charging to a lower percentage but stopping more often. The battery has a curve for it's charging speed so as the percentage charge increases, the charging speed decreases.

@@MrChadx1 Unless you get to the next stop and there's people already charging.

Rolling and wind resistance of the trailer matter greatly as well.

@@Robert-cu9bm Ha. Yeah that goes without saying. But the same can happen as you roll up to that charger that you plan to sit at and charge to 100%. Always a risk. Or they are broken/offline. Just like the gas station near us, there are certain hours you avoid because all the pumps are full. It is likely going to take some planning on EV owner's part to consider how busy a certain station is certain days and times. Some have algorithms that show you just like some search engines do for retail business so you know busiest times that you'll be competing for a charging station. Most charging stations don't seem to get overwhelmed currently, but hopefully the infrastructure build out will keep up with demand and it will find that equilibrium.