The Tillotson 212 engine here is the Tillotson 212r MKII, more on Tillotson 212e here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zXj7VSEMJ4A.html
Camshafts in the tillitsons has more lift and longer duration and my 212 e also came with stainless valves automotive keeper and locks and bronze guides
Would have been nice to see at what RPM maximum torque was at. A 212 Pred with a stage one kit should get over 9HP at 4600 RPM. Years ago I seen a dyno test result of a stock Pred with what is known now as a stage 1 kit. It got 13.5 ft/lbs of torque. The Tillotson should have more power. It has higher compression out of the box than the Pred. No mystery there. Out of the box the spring is in a different hole on the gov arm. This is why the Tillotson gets higher governed RPM than the Predator. You can do the same on any 196 or 212. I would never buy a Tillotson unless I was building a monster 8000 plus RPM engine. The Pred 212 and 196 clones work just fine. I guess the Tillotson is nice for those who want out of the box power and don't want to open the engine. And by the way, these 212's are not clones. True clones are 196cc. Another thing to remember here is that the Tillotson is an out of the box mini bike and go kart engine. The Predator is an out of the box utility engine.
Those engines are not the "hemi" headed ones. Those ones generally have more torque stock but really open up when you put a stage 1 on them as they flow so much better. FYI: Harbor Freight look for part #60363 which is the hemi version. they mix them as all 212cc engines. Preditors have very weak valve springs stock also and just a stage 1 it's recommended to upgrade them as with the higher RPM's they will float a bit even with the governor.
Having worked on both of these the Tillotson blocks are so much better. Take a bore gauge to your Tillotson vs the Predators. I have a Predator Hemi transplanted into a Tillotson block. You can't with a non hemi. Since the heads don't transfer without machine work. Have a regular 212R bought as a fully assembled engine. Works a champ. I won't be buying Predator stuff ever again.
The main difference I've found between the two platforms is manufacturing tolerances. The Predator crankshaft journal can be as much at .003 oversized and out of round. The clones aren't nearly so much. I know a few farmers, contractors, and kart racers who found this out the hard way. I've never used a stock Predator or clone engine as my intent was to disassemble and modify the engine when I purchased it, so I've always used a micrometer on the journals and polished them to desired clearance when necessary before I install the billet connecting rod.
I'm using a 212 so it fits in phatmotos frame. This video helped me pick the Tillotson as I'm gonna build it as much as I can. I like all that extra support. One question though. Does the tilly support a charging system if I were to install it? I prefer that to a battery bank light system
yeah get the Tillotson block and just build a 212 with what you want. save on stock parts you'll scrap anyway like rockers, pushrods, valves and springs, etc.
Almost picked one up. Have had more interest in it from people but I've got about 12 more videos in line I've already been filming! lol I'm even uploading one now while editing another. It might make it to the list though! Others have interest as well!
Currently have a 420-440 video in mind. The Zombie catapult go kart might be getting an upgrade, but I've got about a dozen videos in line I'm working ahead of it. ;)
watch a comparison of 2 gasoline engines on video. Like I saw the machines I owned were branded RATO and branded DUCAR. I chose the best Predator machine, because it is similar to the rato machine that I have. I have tried almost all engine brands. Original Chinese-made gasoline engines like Rato & Loncin are very strong, able to fight famous brands such as Honda, Robin, Yamaha, Mitsubishi, Briggs & Stratton, Kohler. Meanwhile, other brands of gasoline engine made in China, according to my experience and knowledge, are not as tough as Rato & Loncin
I recently purchased a Trailmaster 200-2 and it comes with the 196cc Chinese clone engine, Jhiang Dong I believe. I'm thinking of replacing it with the Tillitson 212r. Could you do a side-by-side comp of these 2 engines? I plan on keeping the engine stock, but will be replacing the 46t rear sprocket with a 60t for better low end torque.
What did you mean by the $70 upgrade flywheel on the Predator ???? I've been wandering about a flywheel upgrade without having to spend lots of $$$. Not going to spin one mega PPMs but still don't wanna explode one.
I would have gotten this engine (the Tilly 212R) but not in stock so I got the old blue Tillotson 212. Hope it runs good in the MB200-2. Seems like from videos on YT is makes a little more power than the Predator stock. 🤷♂️
What do you think is the best cam for the 212r To take advantage of the parts already on there like the flywheel, head, and piston. I know the one that is in it is better than stock but I'm sure as ur RPM goes up it will start to fall off.
@@jacobsebastien3910 the charging coil has me tempted but I'll have to look at what flywheel specs it has to see if that's any good for a build or flywheel only rated to 5k and would be replaced anyway. Looks like the Lifan 212 a little.
@@megoingfast confirmed by EC carb email I asked which hemi head Flows better between the Wildcat hemi head an the blue Tillotson 212 hemi head an they said out of the box the blue Tillotson Hemi Head Flows Better out of the box.
@@megoingfast I'd like to see a detailed comparison of the various hemi heads. Valve angle, material, valve lengths, stem diameters, keeper types, cc's - that sort of stuff. It's easy to get info for the non hemi's [to me]. I'm trying to upgrade a wildcat head and it seems valve angles are different. Valve length too. Seems to be quite the bastard but i like the bowl machining!
How much of a difference will having a governor vs not having a governor make on the predator 212 non hemi and tillotson 212 and then the Ducar 212 and then the predator 212 hemi?
If cost does not matter go with the Tillotson. If you are on a budget go Predator. Here's my opinion.... The only way I would buy a Tillotson is if I wanted to build a high compression high RPM engine. Anything 7500 RPM and under and lower compression engine I would get/use a 196 clone or 212 Predator.
Any reason to put a mikuni carb on the 212r also what about a different exhaust to see gains in HP? I put a 212r on my yerf dog 3203 with a juggernaut and noticed a considerable difference compared to the techumseh 6.5 and comet clutch. Just wondering if I should spend the cash in the mikuni and exhaust for added hp gains?
Great question. I have a header on mine with stock airbox (since it's high flow) and it gave a nice little boost. However, unless you replace the piston rod with billet, up the valve springs, remove the governor, then you don't want to put too much more power into it. You've gotta make it safe for the extra rpms, first. If you remove the gov, switching to a smaller mikuni makes it easy to have a tidy throttle setup. Wish I could give the perfect answer, but you have a few paths you can go. Without governor removal, the carb won't do too much but itself. The header and a jet swap on the carb will be your biggest impact at that level.
@@megoingfast Thanks, honestly with the 212r on there and juggernaut it has enough power and torque to spin the super turf 20x10.0-8 and we get up to 35mph on the dirt with 2 people. That’s fast enough for that small frame. Thanks again for dropping the knowledge! We will keep watching and love the videos especially the intro song....lol
do you have a recommendation on wether it would be worth the money to buy a stock predator and put the Gopowersports stage 2 kit on it (cam, rod , flywheel #22 springs) or just buy the MkII 212r from EC carbs and throw some #22 springs on it. about 80$ cheaper for that. I already have a stage 1 kit to put on either motor.
Hey I recently bought a Tillotson 212 E from gopowersports and I had the same problem you had but the opposite if that makes sense. My exhaust valve was staying shut while my intake would open because the valve lash was not set correctly and was too loose and it pushed my exhaust push rod out of the rocker arm and for a day and a half I was baffled as to what was going on until I check the valve lash. It runs fine now that I put the push rod back in and it wasn't bent set the valve lash and she was good. I didn't get much information as to what the valve lash was supposed to be I had to try and find it on tillotson's website. If there is a way to contact them would you possibly let me know how I have a few questions because I bought two brand new Predator hemis, a stage 1 Tillotson 212 e, and a Tillotson 225 Stroker that just came out
.003 for valve lash. Best to ask through where you bought to start if any issues. Otherwise, I go through tillotson Ireland sure and us tillotson e.c. carburetor. Best start with who you bought from in case they changed specs or did mods pre-sale.
@@megoingfast I would prefer to buy from Tillotson straight. But my only source at the moment is gopowersports as far as Tillotson go oh, I haven't had any issues with the 225 is actually a pretty stout motor it's gotten my mini bike up to 75 miles an hour out of the box with the right gearing and jetting. Thank you for the information and is that .003 for both the intake and exhaust?
Yes, I'd buy it again if I had a specific thing to run it on (which I do). It has been reliable with a header and muffler. Really fit into the stock jetting well and now runs very smooth.
@@megoingfast thank you very much youve been most helpful. Another question is do you know why gopowersports stopped carrying them??? Maybe because its killing their predator product line lolololol
@@megoingfast me personally I would want to change the tank for venting issues an seems like it would be easier for dust/dirt to get suck in from cap from dusty conditions the way it vents. On my Tillotson 212 blue I have a filter on my gas tank vent. 🤔 Just thinking..
Question for you. I have a Tilly 212 and juggernaut on my BT200X. I've seen a lot of videos where they cut the gas vent tubing as part of their stage 1&2 mods. The EPA filter box or whatever it's called is in the way for my TAV. Can I just cut that tubing? Or do I need to get a filter for it? Thanks, love your stuff!
If you're referring to the tube that comes out of the valve cover? I put a 12mm filter on it to keep dust from getting in if I don't throw to a catch can. It should have pressure coming out when running, but stuff can always find a way in (bugs and dust). www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0146I3MJC
Thanks! Everyone has their reasons for hiding their face and having a little fun. My reasons are free now and the helmet is gone ;) A helmet is often used for needed protection.
Quality, hard to judge. Most feel it lacking in power and the governor kicks in low. However, the parts on it are actually very nicely made from a quality control perspective.
great movie first off here in europe we have a karting competition called the 9hp in short you have to use a honda gx200 engine governor removed en the exhaust valve has retainer of an intakethat is it those things produce about 7000 rpm (to high) about 5000rpm is the sweet spot just under 9hp we rev max under load and short burst at 6400 rpm as last year we have a new catogery the tillotson series off factory 212 engine running 15 hp STOCK !!!!! get some information on this you will learn a lot off great stuff for your vids like learnd from yours i am gonna build me a dyno i wanna be as close to the 9 hp as i can website off our comp is www.gk4kartseries.com/