Tom and Shiv Clear the Air | Succession | HBO 

Seems next year will be Succession Awards featuring Emmys

I mean yeah they are hot and they are going to win, but better call Saul, and the disrespect they got from they Emmys is just ridiculous, their last season was maybe one the best top 10 seasons in TV history.

@@renelimas333 They are literally my two favourite shows and I couldn’t agree more.. let’s share the love! (Also somehow everybody lost best actor to the Squid game guy)

@@renelimas333 The fact either Sarah Snook or Rhea Seahorn will end these two series without an emmy is criminal.

what about jeremy strong?

Yup, and I love how thy set that up for this scene to happen. Because this is NOT the Tom we know, and he even knows it after the scene ends.

Tom forgot to HALT..... as in never do or decide something important when you are feeling Hungry, Angry, Lonely or Tired

to be fair he wanted to go to bed and shiv insisted that he stay.@@iorekby

@@iorekby This is a good tips btw. Thank you!

This happens to me too. I felt that

Shiv had some good insight, but when she called him a "hick" it was complete evidence that she was reaching deep and grabbing air.

I do think Tom being an opportunist who never deserved Shiv in the first place is true. But Shiv also being a spoiled brat who doesn't deserve anybody because she just milks them for their love and then walks away is also true. He's here for power, she's here for herself.

@@chihchang1139 they're cut from the same cloth mentally, even though they are from different classes, that's why this scene is so powerful. I've fraternised with people of such and this is how they truly are. This is exactly who they are. Shivs there because she's insecure, a woman with daddy issues, that's seeking validation from men that wants to use her and the power that comes through her. Just look at every guy she's being with, they're all using her.

Well even though he's an opportunist and likes the money, at least he's always been honest about it, and I do think he meant it when he said that he loved her. He really did. The difference is that Tom could have been happy without the top job if Shiv had given him some love and security but she never really loved him. Tom was just an accessory and a mere tool used in some occasions to get what she wanted. No love on her side, just lies and betrayal. In the end Tom has become like her.

@@steven7846 true! this show wrote a tragedy ending through a marriage and a wedding. That's pretty special

Reminded me of his famous proposal scene ngl

Didn't Kiera Nightly use that same line when she was talking to him playing Mr. Darcy, in Pride and Prejudice?

​@@lestonthompson8495 // No she didn't say that....

And people are saying that Tom is being a manipulative liar again and never loved Shiv in the first place. I mean, if that were true, he wouldn’t scream his heart out here.

Yup yup yup yup same opinion. that actor is so good, he deserve more attention in hollywood, he is talented

That line holds so much truth and value. It hits.

I know a lot of nice guys who felt seen in that moment!

BPD is a harsh mistress

I felt that

@@michaelotis223 Shhhhhhhh

One of his children did. His company.

Hasta cierto punto parecía que quería más a tom que a sus hijos 😂😂😂 pero es que tbm ellos no eran serios como dice logan

Ironically, Tom also seeks Logan's approval. The difference is Tom has had to adept and compensate for the lack of approval he gets from shiv and Logan Shiv craves approval because she's never known any other life other than opulence and neglect.

​@@johncharlton199The irony is that of Tom and all 4 Roy kids, only Tom would have gotten Logan's approval at the end of the show

Tom hit the nail on the head when he said "I'm sorry you didn't earn his approval. I have given you ENDLESS approval but it doesn't fill you up because you're broken." Saying she's broken is kind of taking it too far, but he's spot on saying her huge Logan-shaped hole isn't easily filled or wasn't filled by him which is so sad cause he genuinely does love her

100%. Tom actually manifested that fear in to reality by betraying Shiv and admitted to being with Shiv because of her name. While I don’t think she “deserved” it as much as she was a victim of years of emotional abuse which brought a cycle of traumas to her as a person and her relationship with others. At the same time, it is tragic (but it makes sense) that she can’t see that and take responsibility for her faults as well.

@An0n3mu55 What are you talking about? This show is sub-textually about toxic family dynamics and how it manifests in the 1%. The whole premise of the show is Shakespearean and rooted in the characters moving the narrative and not the other way around. So shiv being spoiled and getting everything has absolutely nothing to do with the point. The point is all the Roy siblings are fundamentally broken people, regardless of class. Just because someone is financially stable doesn’t mean they don’t have struggles in other aspects of life. I grew up very poor but had a very close and loving family, and that has impacted how I see love and the relationships I pursue.

​@David have you been watching this show with your eyes closed? This whole show is about childhood trauma and how Logan psychological and physical abuse has effected the kids now into adulthood.

@David With all due respect yes there is something wrong with you. He didnt give them everything,material thing ,vacations yes but not even an ounce of the emotional aspect. There is difference in not being a good parent and being an abusive, emotionally absent one. They're delusional because he was the one who groomed them think this way. And it's honestly so funny how you say Shiv backstab everyone but you don't even understand the main theme of the story which is generational trauma..

I’m a little slow can you explain that comment to me

@@causticgastrap2835as in you’re not as complex or as nuanced of a character to understand aka ‘read’ like how you read people and read a book Implying she’s- one dimensional/easy to read/transparent

@@Mike-mb1yf thanks

No doubt

100% Acting so good you gotta remind yourself their acting

And Sarah's laugh when Kendall said ''I am the eldest BOY''

Absolutely

Yes, this was their Emmy scene. Good choice on both of their parts. I don’t think people know how awards season works. They both submitted this scene to be considered for the Emmy. And it worked!

Emmy 😂😂

I wonder if an action like that was created by the writers, the director or the actor at that moment. It's so telling.

@@jlasfdon’t think it was in the script so it might well have been improvised

At that moment she was defeated

No doubt improvised. Brilliant

one oscar for every time Matthew makes a hand gesture

They did …

Who is Matthew and Sarah? I only know Tom and Shiv. 😂 just kidding

Broken people do that yeah. It's so interesting to watch the underlying psychology at play here. Great acting too, wow!

Real people are broken, it’s only the liberal upper middle class virtue signallers (many of whom watch this show and like to pontificate) who pretend they’re not.

And of course, blaming others is easier path, and what shiv would say

Yeah, tell me about it.

No one wants approval from someone they don’t respect

@@g7924he’s her husband btw

He pensado muchísimo en esta frase

1:46 absolutely spot-on. I noticed this in my second of the MANY viewing of this confrontation. It’s almost like someone pulling their punches… Tom knew he would knock out Shiv with this line and hesitated for a full second but then decided to go through with it. Season 1-3 Tom would’ve never said something like this but I guess this is what infidelity, constant humiliation, disregard for feelings and your very humanity does to a person

Have to agree x10. I’d go as far to say it’s one of the best scenes I’ve seen in any show ever, really. It’s so emotionally loaded and the acting is so overwhelming I had to pause it on my phone after watching it the first time to just let it sink in a bit. And it’s also crazy that while I liked this episode it wasn’t especially amazing until the last 10-15 minutes or so including this and the Matsson and Kendall scene which was also a pretty fantastic scene. Just give them all the awards.

At 1:20, I also wondered if Shiv got worried for a brief second that Tom knew she was pregnant. Shiv keeps drinking alcohol every episode; it seems like she in fact won't have his baby.

@@MarkElders She’s not knocking back glasses, she’s taking sips (at most) of single glasses. They’re keeping up the ambiguity.

The actors reading your comment: 😐 yeah, that's exactly what we planned 😅

I feel like Roman's version of this is on its way with his eulogy for Logan. I'm kinda shocked he even offered to give the speech - I think he has yet to realize what it will require of him emotionally.

@@BatmanHQYT you called it

​@@BatmanHQYTbravo

Yes. The show needed this scene

That's right, he does not deserve her, he deserves Greg.

Tom Wambsgans got what his concerns of money and desire for "nice" things earned him. When a man goes the "First, I look at the purse" route when dealing with a rich woman, this is what you sometimes get.

This is what I mean, he used her for her money from the beginning but she’s the bad guy and he deserves better cuz she slept with someone else. Lol ok

Shiv is exactly what someone like Tom deserved It's almost poetic

And someone deserves a backstabbing social climber?

And... they end up together after all the things they've said and done to each other and Shiv seems to become Caroline. For three seasons Succession had been at the top of its game but for season 4 it literally felt unstoppable. Truly one of a kind.

@@lepythagore3288Shiv becoming Caroline is some of the best poetic Justice I’ve ever seen

Not unnoticed was when Caroline saw Shiv for the first time in a while, before she was pregnant. The quick glance, look, you can almost miss it, and then a deep sigh “Well then!”

Shiv doesn't deserve tom 😂

No, Tom deserves it. He mistreats everyone he has power over. Everyone.

I think that’s what makes the show good because there’s so many angles to each character but it’s also the father’s fault because that’s what he said to her that she could do better than him, but she settled with him

Are you insane? Shiv is literally the worst character/sibling out of all of them. @@Upsallauniversity123

​@@iOakieI think that's what they mean when they say she doesn't deserve him lol. They didn't say "Tom doesn't deserve Shiv."

*Emmys, not Emmy's

@@donmonkeyquijote🤓

I think he was born to play Tom. It shows the true range and depth he has, I bet even Matthew didn't even know he could possess 🩵

I think he has always been a great actor, this part just introduced him to an American audience.

​@@bcent5758 Well, am an Indian and I have been his ardent admirer long before Succession, ever since I watched him in Pride & Prejudice, some 10 years ago. Am truly very happy for him for all the recognition he is getting with Succession.

​@@debitaradutta4376I am also an Indian. Succession is my 2nd hbo's show after GOT. I was a big fan of matthew when i watched pride and prejudice during pandemic ( too late !!!😂😂)

@@bcent5758 Uh no, Pride and Prejudice gave Matthew a global recognition. And yet he was still underrated at that time eventhough most people love him in Pride and Prejudice

Am Fantastic point. I wish Shiv had brought that up when Tom said she betrayed him. But then again, Shiv said nothing when Nan Pierce conditioned the deal on Tom being removed from ATN.

I do believe she loved him but love has always been a thing to mock in her family and she was unable to see it as anything other than a weakness.

I mean, given how poorly Shiv treated Tom, she does have a point that he stayed with her because of who she is and the benefits. Like, how can you "love" someone that doesn't value you and cheats on you?

When she said he doesn't deserve her, I thought it was the other way around (:

I dunno about the "your mom loves me more than she loves you" line.

​@@pwnatehExactly, Tom was speaking from authenticity (observations he wishes weren't true) while Shiv spoke from insecurity (preconceptions she claims as true). She wasn't nearly as accurate in her observations as Tom. She was trying to poison his well while he was holding up a mirror so she could face her own reflection. It's a tragic scene.

Mutually assured destruction is the most beautifully poignant thing to be said about their relationship

Idk about offering to go to jail line, felt more like it was bait, shiv at times lied cuz she couldn’t handle what was being said about her

Matthew definitely is. But Snook has several episodes she could submit and win with. Hoping she submits this episode though. My MVP this season.

@@jurney3478 Snook has to win. She hasn't won yet and who exactly is gonna win over her? She's got the season finale buff on a critic favourite show

@Rebel Friend Rhea Seehorn for Better Call Saul also fits all of the above, but I’m becoming increasingly torn over which of the two I’d prefer to win

@@jurney3478 most of the cast definitely will!! Hope Sarah wins tho. She hasn't and that's crazy but she has killed it in every season.

@@rebelfriend1818 I never said she wasn't gonna win. I fully believe she'll win, especially now that she's away from Jennifer Coolidge. I'm saying she has a plethora of content to choose from for her episode submission for the award.

I think you’re wrong. He always wanted to get to the top with her but later on he also said to forget everything and have a fresh start somewhere else. She just isn’t capable of loving and caring or be loved and cared for because of her childhood

He is striving, but wanting professional success and loving someone are not mutually exclusive. That’s what shiv is missing because she’s always seen these two things as diametrically opposed. Tom nailing her so perfectly here tells me that he does love her because he’s taken the time to understand her deeply. It’s what gave him staying power while she crucified him with her infidelity and “open relationship” pitch on their fecking wedding night. She describes him as servile, when it’s really his ability to comprehend motivations and digest them that gives him a sort of emotional shock absorber. When you love someone you try to truly know them. He demonstrated here that he does know Shiv, including her underbelly.

Um no? Have you heard how much Logan criticizes and mocks his children

I convinced myself that the door/windows are soundproof

They couldn't hear them.

@@amirparsi4165 well in that kind of place they would be to avoid city/traffic noise. We're not talking about some cheap apt. here!

And he says it not knowing she is pregnant.

Negan scene from walking dead where he hits main character with bat.

Breaking Bad’s One Minute episode, True Detective’s Who Goes There episode

Check out the films Ingmar Bergman's Scenes from a Marriage, and Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?

Beautifully said. This scene works so well because of the excellent dialogue and the powerful acting. It's a masterclass.

Yeah, the directness of this scene felt incredibly earned after four seasons of doublespeak and coded language. The characters' fear of intimacy is baked into most of the dialogue, so the earnest moments hit like a train to the face.

"Fancy verbal choreography" *Aaron Sorkin left the group chat*

@@michaelotis223 Sorkin is more combative, so like fight choreography, though of course still fancy and coordinated; I feel like Jesse Armstrong is more like a gymnastics floor routine, like the “ta-da!” is baked in

Wdym it was funny

It was that awkward embarrassment when dirty laundry has been unintentionally waved in public.

"Night, Tom."

I wholeheartedly agree. they were perfect from the get-go

heard it too. glad you mentioned it

Sarah and Matthew

What kills me is y'all have apparently watched 4 seasons of treacherous people backstabbing each other. I just don't see how that helps y'all in any way whatsoever.

@@etsisk It's just hard to watch the first few episodes. Then you get invested and can't look away from the ongoing trainwreck, so to speak. It 'helps' because: examining incredibly destructive, broken people is important. The show is about generational trauma at heart.

it's a classic woman moment

It's been less than a week since it aired. I certainly hope not. 😄

He’s so used to her having her guard up with sarcastic quips he didn’t expect to hit her this deep to the point where she became an incoherent mess

You are always, at best, a side-character for a narcissist. Classic 🤪

Who’s the narcissist in this case?

@@KD-oy8qt Shiv is the narcissist. Tom just wanted her love. And she continually showed that she would choose power over him. For her to even say "HE BETRAYED HER" is some serious sociopathic narcissist thinking. All she did was continually betray him at every turn. Till he finally stood up for himself and did it once. And now she knows how it feels. The writing for her is incredible. The scene is incredible. Like @Seriouspony said, she is her own main character and only her feelings matter in her world.

That's what growing up with Logan as a father did to her. All the kids are emotionally stunted and unable to be genuine because they grew up with pathological liars and manipulators.

I mean she had a emotionally repressive father that made her that but again doesn’t justify her actions to him

No one won lol are you 10?

@@g7924tom def won this one lil bud