Hi Keith, glad to hear Naniwa snow white in number 2. I have a snow white, like it a lot. Do you recommend Shapton glass stone or Shapton pro for 500- 1000#?
I never thought that I would spend one hour and thirty five minutes on a Friday night watching someone talk about 8k stones with such passion, and I really enjoyed it and picked up a wealth of knowledge on the way. Great Video Keith. !!!
I have a Norton 4/8K combo and I’m so glad to have confirmation if my dislikes for it. I’m relatively new so this will help me figure out the 8K I want to get to replace the Norton. Thanks again.
Tremendous info...I learnt more during this vid than months of listening to all the others combined...I am a chef of 25 years and sharpen all my own knives..Thank You for taking the time and effort to share this....totally invaluable information, As a chef I dont really need super sharp or mirror polished..just a servicable blade to get me through a shift...But lately I seem to have more passion for sharpening my knives than actually cooking....Bought the chosera line up and will look to get the snow white to finish...
Thank you. I've just started the transition to straight razors. It's hard to find good info on this stuff on the forums. Your channel is great. Honing, sharpening, stones, your detailed explanations, all of it.
Keith, as a long time sharpener, I just test drove the Naniwa Snow White, for the first time, on a straight razor, and I concur, it's an awesome awesome stone. Thanks for putting it on my radar. For a future video I would love to see you demonstrating honing cutlery knives. I work in a kitchen, and would enjoy learning a thing, or ten, about it.
Wow, you definitely invested a lot of time into that one! Nicely done. Your info on the snow white was especially helpful for me. Good to hear it’s hardness is a bump above the 8k SS. My synths (new SS’s) are sort of double duty. Top for razors bottom for cutlery. With cutlery, you're spot on in terms with maintaining bevel angle to avoid cutting into the stone. The plus to that is that it really reinforces good technique. Once again, great clip. I always look forward to your videos.
Hey Mr. Tee - thanks for watching! For sure, with most kitchen stuff the softer Nanis are compatible with those lower angles but sometimes I need a steep angle for a utility knife....
I agree with you on the Shapton Glass, I was like, WHAT? Glass, seriously? Nano Hone at least uses metal. But then again, they don't have an 8K, which I find confusing.
Very informative video! Thank you very much! I know that you focus your interest on razors but, can you racommend the Fuji also for kitchen and edc knives too? Of course as a final stone after, for example, a chosera 3k. I can find the fuji for around 70€ here in italy. Thanks in advance!
This is the 4th time I've watched this video. The production is simple, but the work BEHIND the scenes, that we don't see, is incredible. I appreciate your time and effort on this, Keith. I purchased my Shapton Pro 8k based on this video. The Shobudani I purchased from your etsy is also kicking some ass. There's something in the middle of the stone that "tings" when I run my razors over it and the tomo but I've never had a chip due to it. I've looked with a 60x loop but can't see anything different, and my thumbnail also doesn't pick anything up (kind of crazy). Lapped it several times but the "tinging" never goes away. I call it my "ghost in the stone" due to me not seeing or feeling but still hearing... Anyway, thought you'd enjoy that. Stay safe, my brother, and I don't mean from the v(eye)rus. 😉
Really glad to hear you got a lot out of this video. Some Shobu have a 'thing' that does that. Not sure what it is to be honest. I had a Shobu Karasu that was loaded with it and the feedback felt like driving on gravel. Edges rocked tho.... just one of those things I guess. From time to time I'll run across another seasoned user that has noticed similar 'voices' in their Shobu also. Mother Nature has one hell of a sense of humor.... Happy Honing!
Hey Keith. Great video. Quick question how do tell if a stone is true flat? I use a thick metal ruler and place it on stone in different spots and check for light peaking through....am I doing it wrong? Is there a better method or tool? I know it may seem silly but I want my stones perfect.
@@Snowdirtride It is like a sweet plastic type of fragrance, not exactly sweet like candy, but sort of like that smell you get when you open a new toy.
@@KeithVJohnson1 I really kind of want to ditch the Norton 4k/8k and clean up my progression a little. (mainly to get rid of the 4k Norton) In your opinion, would the following 3 stones be better for a start to finish synth progression: Shapton 1.5k> Shapton 5k > Fuji 8k > strop Or fill in the gap from 1.5 to 5k or 5k to Fuji? 1.5k to 5k seems like a leap, but maybe not. I really like the Shaptons, they seem pretty hard & like they'd last. The Norton 4k is soft as butter. I'm also waiting on Dan's to find me a really nice big Translucent primitive cut just for fun to throw in the mix.
@@KeithVJohnson1 ok cool think I'll just grab a 5k for now and see if I can't bypass the Norton 4k/8k altogether. I bought the 1.5k Shapton koramaku not long ago and really like it. I wish they made a 3k in the koramaku line up. uuugh. Thanks!
OK I watch the entire video.... Thanks. What is your stone honing progression.. Is there a video on what u enjoy Using? Shapton pro 1500 to 5000 and then to which stones 8000 shapton and then to jnat? Thks
I use many different stones, I enjoy them all, there is no one progression that I default to more regularly than others. I mix and mingle naturals with synthetics often too. I usually wind up finishing on Jnats, but not always. It depends on my mood, which stones I have to test, which ones I used the night before, and so on.
If you go to the Shapton Pro 8k from the Shapton Pro 5k do you find there should also be no swarf on the 8k? Indicating there was not enough work done on the 5k? From your experience! Awesome video BTW thanks for posting and the time it takes!
Excellent experiment and video, Keith. I am currently trying to figure out the middle-upper part of my progression (including the 8k slot) so this was really helpful. I think I am going to do something similar - but since I’m just learning to straight razor shave I’m going to have to omit that test. :-) Likely will rely on visuals from my 60x loop and use a set of Tojiro steak knives as my test samples so that I can run things a bit in parallel. In particular I am looking to see how a hard Ark might fit into the progression).
I think the challenge with most synthetic stones that aren’t made by either Naniwa or Shapton is that they’re intended for knives more or less I believe. I picked up a couple of Suehiro Cerax combo stones to play with and they just weren’t ideal after some hone time IMO. I mean they were ok on a couple of blades but not so great on others...
Nice Video really enjoyed it but have some confusing on King G1 and Kitayama you say to soak for around 30 Minutes as far as i am aware these are Splash and Go not Waterstones ?
The term Waterstone means it's not an oil stone - that it is designed to be used with water only as a honing medium; they can be splash and go or a soaker. Some stones sold as splash and go, such as Naniwa Chosera / Professional series, perform better with a short soak. Same for Shapton Pro stones; mind you, Shapton will simultaneously tell you to not soak the stone, and then tell you it's ok to soak it for a short while. I usually dunk them for a couple/few minutes. The Kit and King 8k stones performed better with longer soak times. Many other sharpeners have found the same, although the soak times might vary from person to person. I found 30 minutes to produce the best results.
Great video from start to finish. Hypothetically, Could one expect a similar quality positioning of Naniwa's 10&12K? Or without going through another scientific experiment, have you encountered any 10/12K that stand out
Do you have any theories as to why Snow White tends to craze? I personally have no idea. Something in tap water or drying them off too fast/slow, or improper storage?
Without having hard data to support the claim, I would not agree that SW 'tends' to craze. Some of them did. What the percentage of those that crazed vs how many did not, I don't know. There are a lot of theories out there, but Naniwa has never made an official statement on the issue .
I am glad I have stopped buying stones as I might be tempted to buy a Snow White, which I have been very curious about for a long time. I have the Shapton Pro's from 1-12k, as well as a Sigma 10 and 13k, but I like the Shapton's better. If I was to buy more stones, they would be Jnats, since I bought an Ozuku Asagi, I really only want to try more Jnats, (even though I have lots of stones from other places) but the madness has to stop somewhere. You have found a way to keep the madness going and not break the bank balance, well it is probably increasing, good for you. I am like you and just love honing, I don't know why though. Thanks.
@@KeithVJohnson1 There is something rewarding about it, but I cant put my finger on it. I just caught the wife opening a package with one of my razors, and said what are you using that for, she said it was just like a knife, so I used it. I was pretty thankful really, after I explained why she shouldn't use one for such things. I needed an excuse to re-hone it as everything is already sharp, and my itchy honing fingers needed scratching.
Damn.... killer video! Came at the right time. Got it down to the SW, Fuji, Shapton Pro(Kuromaku). Almost forgot the Kitayama too. Keith didn't you review the Hayabusa 4000? Can't find it! Thanks for you time and devotion! Greg B.
Hey Greg, thanks for watching and commenting! I have not given the Hayabusa 4000 a real video review, but I have mentioned it a few times in a few videos. There is a page about it on my website - tinyurl.com/y8yjnsko
I use a Schneider and/or Fujifilm 4x photo loupe. Both are out of production, have to be found on the used market. And thank you for watching and commenting! Happy Honing!
@@KeithVJohnson1 Keith...you've helped create a "monster," as I am now haunted by honing ^.^ thanks for the feedback....and if I get too bored during pandemics, I'll just re-watch the video.
I really like the shapton pro 8k, is the 12k equivalent? (for razor finish, i can't afford a 30k). i like them much more than the naniwa SS, as they load too fast and dish too fast. It sounded like you really didn't like the king, why did it make your top 8?
Hello Keith, Just a small question (because i'm french and my english not very perfect) : the new Snow White is the same of the old one or not ? Thanks for the stupid question and great video !
There is no 'New' Snow White. You can buy one new, but it is the same stone that has been manufactured since it first came out. There are two sizes, so two part numbers. I only know one of the two numbers - IF-0001. There is another 8k stone, that is white, it is part of the newer 'Traditional Series' but it is not, was not supposed to be, and never will be - a 'new' Snow White'.
Brother, I thoroughly enjoy your videos, you and Lynn Abrams are BY FAR, the most knowledgeable on hones and Straights. I think I've watched all of your videos within, the past 2-3 weeks. What's your email Keith? I have a few questions about JNATS and cotis.
Thanks Keith, that's a lot of sub standard shaves to endure. I love my gouken 4K and 8k, I shave of the 8k occasionally just to see where my game is at. But usually is is the jump point to go to JNats.
Hey Neal, yeah, it was a bit much.... next time I'll do the top 5.... lol. Glad that's over..finally. Good to hear you're working with the Fuji and Falcon - great stones!
Great video. I am new at razor hobby (sharpening knifes for years!). Kindly suggest what kind of stones I need to sharp the razors. Kindly write down exactly what to buy(best model+ grid) in order to have all restoration/ maintenance set and not to waist money for serching. Thanks a lot!
Hello and thank you! I do not make specific stone recommendations; the discussion would be endless, there are just too many choices and possibilities. But if you watch more of my videos you will see the various stones I use to hone razors.
I am understand,but I'll really appreciate suggestion. About 8k I already understand. What about lower and higher grid stones. For flattering I already have 140 and 400 Atoma.
Unfortunately, there are too many choices, I do not have the time to review them all. Ty. But - you might want to consider joiining my Facebook group - Tomo Nagura - you can get a lot of advice there.
FWIW, I use the kitayama as a splash and go, and never soak it. I have the one with the base. While I haven't seen the chipping, I am using a vintage German made razor. Also I hone at an angle so all the blade stays in contact the whole time. I heard this also helps avoid chipping.
Not sure what you mean by ‘always in contact’ - but, when honing a razor, the spine and edge are always supposed to be on the stone, that’s how we maintain the bevel’s angle. Has nothing to do with chipping though. That stone is supposed to be soaked actually, so there’s that.
@@KeithVJohnson1 By "always in contact" I keep both ends of the edge and most of the spine on the stone, nothing hangs over the edge of the stone. I haven't had to use any "X" strokes this way. For the razor, I primarily use the Shapton pro's 2K/5K/8K/12K. I find carbon steel is very happy on it. Then strop with very fine particle crox, this gives me arm hair splitting sharpness. The Kitayama I have only used once on the razor, just to see what it was like. I mainly use it on kitchen knives. FWIW I sharpen about 100 knives per month (mine plus a community center kitchen in town).
Honing razors in what we refer to as 'head on' or 1/2 strokes (blade always in contact) has always proven itself to be unfavorable when used on stones finer than say, 3k. That's for me when honing razors, for cutlery, I choose sharpening style based on profile and steel type and I do use 'full contact' strokes often. Objectively, X strokes do not cause chipping, they actually help prevent chipping. Arm hair splitting sharpness should be happening shortly after or during bevel set at 1k and most definitely by 5/8k - if you need Crox after the 12k then something is definitely askew...
@@KeithVJohnson1 Thanks for that. After bevel is set (which I only have done this once), I just flip it on the spine, what I would call stropping strokes, edge leading. I never bothered to check sharpness on hair till I was all done, I'll give that a try next time. Early on, I used a jeweler's loupe prior to each stone to make sure the scratches have been dealt with by the current stone. Anymore, for me it's mainly a feel thing... it changes once the stone has done it's job polishing the scratches. Anyway, my thinking behind staying away from "X" strokes was that I wouldn't have the edge in contact the same amount at the toe and heal compared to the middle, I didn't want to create a frown. I suspect this is where slight torque comes into play to overcome this. I'm going to go back and watch another one of your video's and redo this from the ground up, seeing if I can't get the hang of the "X" strokes, loupe in hand checking each step. One thing I will say, is I love the feel of a straight razor compared to my safety razor (with Wilkinson Sword blades)
You should be able to manage a shave off your bevel setter - each following step should improve that shave. You can wear the toe/heel more with x strokes, sure. You would possible get a smile, not a frown. But unless you sharpen the razor obsessively, you probably won't see that happen. And a smiling edge can be a good thing. I go by feel mostly, I will use a loupe to check too, but it's always feel that tells me to move on.
Thanks for investing all that time, great information. And personal justification for issues with the edge off my King 8k. For clarification did you strop before your shave tests? I guess we’ll have to wait a year for the 12k review. 😁
Great to hear your honest insights... This helps noobs like me get some kind of a footing. Would a Jnat work after the Snow White? and would the Gouken Hayabusa work with the Snow White? Sorry in advance hope you dont mind, would love to get Ur insights... I don't have a microscope nor any of these hones but am really interested to get into this hobby. Terrified by the vast options. Thanks Keith.
It is possible to set the bevel on Botan, so yes - it is possible to go 1k, Botan - but your skills have to be on point and it is very possible for new users to 'miss' using that technique. I usually tell people starting out to start Botan after 5k or 8k and then work backwards to figure out the jump.
The Snow is legendary for straight and knives and I’m wondering if the fuji is as fantastic with knives as it is straights. I know this question can be arrogant because I’m looking for a black and white answer and yada yada I understand the fuji would probably work, but I sharpen knives, and I need an 8k. I’m eventually moving into straight when I fucking grow hair (still waiting for them wiskars) so I’d like something to work with both
I don't do much commenting on knife sharpening, I try to stay focused on straight razors to avoid confusion. I also don't usually use an 8k when sharpening knives, so there's that.
Wow! Bro! Long video hahahaha! Great info for all and i am grateful for your research and info! I have only worked with some of those 10 and my favorites are in order ... Fuji(still use alot) Superstone Shapton pro King Did not like at all Norton! Almost felt bad to sell it ... didn’t want anybody to use it! Hehehe
Yah - it's a bit long, had to do it though, no way around it. I almost made it a two parter, the top 5 and the bottom 5 but that would have been harder to do and I don't think it would have helped...lol. I am going to sell my Norton, I choose to believe that it'll find its way to the right home...(fingers crossed).
Keith V. Johnson hehe! Its all good! It took me a couple of sessions to watch the whole thing but its great info! So we stay glued! Hahaha! I think Nortons might have a place in kitchen and pocket knife world... dunno
@@KeithVJohnson1 Ohhhh me stupid🤦♂️ Im sorry.. I wanted to ask about snow white cause i want to buy it but some people had developed cracks.. Did it last you?
Greetings from Mexico, just starting. Any thoughts in the suehiro W8 and G8?. I´m using a naniwa ss 4000 and making a big jump to a CBN 12k, then finishing with a natural construction slate mined in México called "laja Negra Mixteca" with decent results, but i have to spend lot of time with de 12k, i think i could use an 8k. Great no bull shit video as always.
Naniwa Super Stones come in 3000 or 5000, no 4000 there. Not sure what a CBN 12k is, unless you mean the Chinese Hone of Undetermined Grit (Chug), which are more like a 7k most days. The W8/G8 stones are not in the "Top 10" list so they're another topic for another day.
@@KeithVJohnson1 acording to the seller, is an 4k off speck stone, you´re right, the 12 k is a Chinese diamod - resin, adevertised as 12 k, thanks for your quick response, i might go with the shapton or the fuji. i made the mistake o buying cheap stones al first.
Hmmmm...? great video as always (seriously). I wonder how our grand fathers, great grand fathers and our great great grand fathers and the barbers of those days got their razors sharp and I would bet as sharp as we get then today with stones that we would never consider using today compared with the the stones we have today. As Murray Carter and I believe Kieth would also say it's 90% technique. A skilled/experienced person could hone a razor on a very cheap hone to an incredible edge as some average Joe could with the most expensive stone.
I would not say honing is 90% skill. I would be more inclined to say that honing relies upon a type of balance that is closer to the duality of Yin & Yang. The hones our great great great grandfathers used to sharpen razors are still popular, sought after, and in use today. The only real change in hone-history is with synthetics; they didn't show up until 1890 or so. Finer grit synthetic stones were not readily available until the 1960s.
Wow! What a thorough review! Fantastic as always, Keith. The straight razor shaving community is better for your efforts. I wondered what all slightly used 8K’s were doing up on your Etsy store!!
As a newbie. If I want to touch up a blade could I do a few laps on an 8k? Or should I really do 1k 3k and 8k? Truth be told I’m on a budget so probably can afford one stone per month for next few months lol. Should I buy 8k first and use for touch ups?
A 'touch up' depends on the stone the blade was finished on initially. If your razor was honed to - say, 12k - then a touch up would be done on a 12k. You shouldn't need to go lower than 12k unless you put too much wear on it - in which case you'd start on 8k, then finish on 12k.
Never watched this guy till now but if i didnt like the way he talked i wouldn't have listened for 90 minutes. Im a knife collector and free hand sharpener and a NANIWA lover as i have all the choseras, aramusha, kuroto, green brick, ect and a couple kitayama,s. But out of all i have i do not like that 8k kitayama that much. I always thought about going with snow white and i am ordering it right now.
Wow. This video was made for me! You have put so much effort in this video sir..... thank you! As you may know I have recently placed my order for my first straight blade. Like everything I do I always put the effort in understanding the “things” make up .... construction and ways in which to look after them. It’s all part of the fun I find ( just like my archery and my pipes too). I do want to invest in three stones. I may have to do one stone a month ( gotta pay the mortgage first ;-). A few questions if I may. Please excuse my ignorance! Ordering off your Etsy. Am new at this. Does this mean the item I order from you comes from the States? Unfortunately Her Majesty’s Royal Mail (UK) are the first to charge such a fine gent as myself almost 100% import duties/tax. Or does Etsy mean you get a small commission and the item might be dispatched from EU or U.K.? Again excuse my ignorance..... I spent most my childhood up a tree in South Africa lol Secondly. Getting a new blade from Dovo. Will I have to hone it before use? I have only ordered a Strop with my straight blade. Thanks again and look forward to the comms! Ah yes. Do you have an email address I can email you on? Or a Facebook page?
Hello and thank you for watching! I do not know if your razor will be honed, I would check with the seller. Everything in my Etsy shop is located in the USA, but I do not ship internationally.
