Top Things Mormon Missionaries WON'T TELL YOU about Joseph Smith PART 2 (convert edition!) 

I am currently a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am fresh out of High School, and my natural desire to search for the truth has directed me to almost all of the gospel topics essays you have referenced. Admittedly, this is a HUGE challenge to anyone's faith in Joseph Smith as a prophet. I feel inspired by you to critically evaluate all of the points you brought up. I've already started studying what you labeled as the 'apologist's' defense for the Book of Mormon and the "weak" arguments... But anyway, I do think it is very important that people know the truth about Joseph Smith, so it is good you are bringing light to it. Although it is obvious that you have clear resentment toward the religion, you are presenting it in a mostly unbiased fashion, even using Church sanctioned articles, and I respect that. Thanks again

The exmo community is unlike anything I ever experienced as a true believer, these are my people ♥️

It’s wild to me that my English teacher in grade 11 let my classmate bring in missionaries and bear her testimony as her final presentation. As a queer student dealing with my own religious trauma being forced to sit in that classroom was wildly uncomfortable. I transferred to a public school to get away from religious indoctrination and suddenly I’m once again sitting through that bullshit. In hindsight I definitely should have reported my teacher for that.

Carah, you have the best expressions and you provide such a good interaction with John. You are a star! 🌟

36:00 I didn’t know about garments until the Mike Wallace interview with Gordon B. Hinckley and I was like “wth”?

So informative thank you love from Canada 🇨🇦 ❤

Carah you clean up good. Looking dressed up and nice hair. Keep up the colorful tops and clean flowing hair do! Looking good babe !!

A curious Thing : There is a hill called Cumorah , where there was a fight or a big battle …. In Spanish , there is a word called “camorra” , and it means having a fight or a battle … There seems to be an interesting or clever transliteration by a profesional CON man .

In my mind there are only TWO logical options when you start researching Mormon history: 1. The entire thing is a fraud. 2. Taylor Drake's model of Mormonism is correct That's it. It's not possible to believe the modern LDS church is "true" while also acknowledging these factual historical issues. Those are the only options that are acceptable (while not looking like an idiot)

Lol John is a vibe on your set 😂 Nice to see him chillin 😎 Does he drive a fiat? Can he rap?

It's hard to explain away the anachronisms of the BM, lack of DNA for ancient Israelites in America, lack of artifacts in Mormon geography, and lack of use of the plates even for the translation. Why did all those prophets die for in the name of their faith to write down records if they were not even used by JS to translate the BM?

he is way more of a creep than i ever thought holy sh*t

It’s amazing coming across this, how will you feel realizing you have helped people lose faith?

So- that’s kind of a big jump from a few archeological items that aren’t what your expectations thought they should be. Have you read the Book of Mormon? It is a super complex and robust book with teachings and history that are very detailed. Are you sure you want to throw all that out because some archeological items are not what you expect they should be. I just recently watched an episode of Aerial America and they talked about the area where the battle of big horn happened. In that episode they said that the memorial is the only evidence that that battle ever happened. That battle just happened 200-300 years ago- I am not an expert but it seems like the earth, growth, rust, etc. Over time the war evidence doesn’t really hold up. I’m no expert, just some thoughts that come to mind.. I believe in the Book of Mormon as a Book that provides teachings that help me learn and also that strengthen my faith in God and Jesus daily.

I bet John's trying to nail all the Mormonstories girls.

Onlyfans?

I’ve worked at places where every time someone left the company, they changed the security codes. Weird that The handshakes are exactly the same.

This was crazy. I was born and raised in the church, mission, temple marriage, and all the check marks. My wife and I left about 4 year ago. I’ve never heard some of these things. Won’t be going to bed anytime soon as I read about the Kirtland Safety Society and the 1800s temperance movement.

Just discovering this channel while I'm working the night shift, ironically, at my job on BYU campus😅... Great conversations, simply great. You guys sound more real and genuine than any church leader I've listened to. I feel somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place, however, trying to weigh the costs and benefits of leaving the church. It would devastate my parents, my mom in particular. Social life outside the church here in Provo is hard to come by, haha. It's really hard for me to see a life outside the church. The church really does set you up for a hard, hard fall should you leave. The all or nothing mentality is what keeps so many from leaving I imagine. Even just entertaining the thought that the church might not be true was incredibly difficult for me. I thought there could be no meaning in life if it wasn't. Seeing people like you guys gives me hope that life can be good, even if I don't believe in Kolob, lol.

I love these, keep them coming whenever you can I can't believe that African investigators aren't being informed about the racist policies of the church

Fun fact: I had been thinking about going my own way for months and months before quitting Mormon Stories and finally am close to making a living doing my own content, working for myself on Patreon and YT so support me over there if you have a few bucks to spare! I love how supportive all the ex-tithe payers are! Every dollar adds up and helps a ton! PLUS exclusive content I don't post anywhere else. Support me on Patreon and come be my hoes. It would mean the world. www.patreon.com/nuancehoe

john is precious i see him as my favorite exmo uncle

I would love to see "top things" people aren't told about Emma Smith. The evolution of how Emma is perceived by the LDS church members and those who are "leaders" - vs. how she is STILL perceived as being by FLDS and other fundamental circles.

I'm was a convert. All the elders that I talked to didn't know about the facts either. They were just kids. And it's forbidden to look at any information that isn't from the church. Now it's really easier to get to information . Love your videos. I also watch Zelf on the shelf and Mormon podcast. You guys helped me leave.

"Line upon line, precept on precept" ... aka poisoned by degrees.

I was baptized at age 8 with mom. In 1978, at age 19, I went on my mission to Michigan. At the time we were expected to memorize each discusión verbatam. We were told that the discussusions were inspired and that we should never veer of topic and avoid any discussion that could be considered deep doctrine. The church whole policy has always been to keep new converts away from any from any church doctrine or history that could be considered problematic.

As a member I was told that the bank just happened to fail, and then people got mad. The people aren't perfect Such misrepresentation

Thank you ,you three for having enough spine to share your research with us. It helps cement what I sensed already as an adolecant and young adult. I'm in my 70's, quit attending at 18 yrs old.

Missionaries won’t tell because they’ll get scolded by their Mission Leaders.

I am really loving these collabs. You three bring great ideas and energy together!👍🏻

I just watched the documentary series on warren jeffs on Netflix and I was thinking the exact same - he was basically doing what Joseph smith and Brigham Young were doing and preaching…

Excellent discourse that dove into meaningful aspects and concepts about historicity combined with the emotional collateral discordance required to deny facts. Truly enjoyed your camaraderie when delving into individual and shared experiences, plus fascinating insights into social/tribe behavioral factors. Looking forward to part Three M

More interpretive hymns-dances please ❤😂😊

I saw how uninformed and un educated missionaries are when I had 2 show up at my door when I lived in arizona. I told them I knew all about their culty religion because I grew up in southern Idaho. The missionary then proceeded to tell me that there weren't any Mormons in idaho so I had to be mistaken. I just stood there with my mouth open. I asked if he'd never heard of byu Idaho to which he said byu was in Utah. Now I don't know if he truly didn't know that Idaho is the state above Utah and southern Idaho is essentially little Utah or if he really didn't know that Idaho exists or if he didn't know what to say so he just denied everything. To this day, I can't believe he would be that uninformed.

Great job guys; great episode, lots of fun... very spot-on. marcus

Nobody could loan John a midriff top?

47:12 heck, the missionaries didn’t even tell its past racist history to Latinos in both the U.S. and in Latin America. Didn’t know about the priesthood ban as a kid until I spoke with an ex-Mormon.

Awesome trio! Good to see y'all! Yeehaw! I'm diving in for a listen....🐬♥️

So friggin informative, great stuff 👌🏼👌🏼😊great trio!!! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

There are some similarities in this discussion with Jehovah's Witnesses and Mega Christian churches (like Hillsong).

these little edits are so funny XD LOVE this content. All my favorite peeps

Recently, I heard the following in a rap song: (Spoiler: It's a chiasmus!!!) I got My money On My mind and My mind on My Money Yo... That's when I knew that at least one of the Three Nephites is starting to make moves in the rap scene. Nothing else could explain that kind of Semitic complexity.

Im not even Moron and this shiz is fascinating. I have a couple good Moron friends - über intelligent, educated and otherwise-reasonable dudes - and am just BAFFLED at how they can believe that obvious fraud. Baffled. It’s clearly psycho-emotional and cultural. Still - baffling.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, the quote is: "Slavery is ordained of God." - Brigham Young. Then he made Utah a semi slave state. I mean, YES there was slavery but not as bad as in the deep south. (As if that makes SLAVERY okay) This was a big deal for me and I don't get why it doesn't get talked about more.

There were a series of cartoons that I remember seeing as a child that showed us many of these details with the propaganda spin that they are talking about. Anyone remember those cartoons, or have them on VHS (I don't know if they really lasted past that point of technology)?

I still remember back in the 1990s a newly released bishop and his newly returned RM daughter spoke at my ward. The daughter gave a decent talk about her mission and the gospel. The father however gave a talk that the elders and bishopric were not happy with. They had seven investigators in the pews that day. The ex-bishop proceeded to tell everyone about facts of the early LDS church. His topics included the Smith family history of treasure digging, the failed Kirtland Bank, the fact that Joseph Smith spoke often about how men lived on the moon, Brigham Young's Adam-God theory, high levels of apostasy in the Kirtland period, and links between the Book of Mormon and stories of early American settlers coming by boat (divergent history).

Most of them won't tell you because they don't even know.

I vote it’s a fraud

Thanks for the shoutout, Carah. Really good stuff!

Samantha said how she wasted six years of her life .. but no she didn’t ! Look at how much she has gained because of it. The knowledge to share on a social platform which goes out to countless individuals, saving the ones who haven’t yet been drawn into a damaging cult and also helps those having gone through a faith crisis of their own not to feel isolated or shameful in the eyes of family and friends who may be judgmental and alienating towards them. I often have felt two thirds of my life was stolen from me, and will still likely experience the replications to the end of my mortality. But then .. I think about how my character, empathy, and compassion has developed exponentially throughout my challenging years. My immediate family will most likely never go beyond where they are at in terms of inner growth and awareness. But damn .. sometimes it hurts .. it hurts a lot .. mostly because of my now grown children who see me in a tainted light… because of their father and righteous stepmother in Rexburg.. ahh ! Yes.. my ex is employed by none other than BYUI as an instructor. And yet .. I was the one who gave up my degree, and devoted my entire life to my young family. I held huge callings outside of Utah, was the one who built pinewood derbies, and huge platters of homemade goodies for church events, breastfed all seven of them lol, and never did their dad lift a finger to help with the domestic chores or babies while we were married. I gave birth to a baby one Friday .. and Monday .. after being up all night .. got up to get the other 4 in school ready .. drive them to school .. and hoped the newborn and toddler wouldn’t wake up while I did so.. as my priesthood holder husband was snoring away .. I looked at him that morning and flipped him off lol.. resolving to somehow dissolve the marriage. He was also extremely verbally and physically abusive with the kids at the time. One evening as he came out of his office on the computer.. where he promptly retreated to after work each evening .. he scolded me for not praying twenty minutes a day .. I was running around like a chicken with my head cut off.. after making a homemade dinner, and juggling homework, and two in diapers, etc. That was one more thing on my wobbly shelf .. I told him that I think God can see that what I am doing is the Lords work and he would be patient with me regarding an exact twenty minute prayer ugh. He said .. his goal was to see angels .. and some dude who wrote a church book .. George W. Pace .. said praying twenty minutes a day on our knees would be the only way.. Well.. what my ex doesn’t know is that I had angels guiding me every moment .. and still do. And why is it that he started to provide and stop the child abuse after I dumped his ass .. and he’s the perfect husband and father now? He came home drunk one night when the kids were tiny .. and put wine coolers in the fridge. My four year old got into the fridge and started drinking one lol.. I was so Mormon then .. I mean LDS .. sorry Rusty. But I got angry and told him I would end the marriage if he ever brought alcohol in the house again.. Ahhh the irony .. and now .. I’m the rebel mom .. the lost soul drinking a Jack and coke at a sports bar.. and a fridge full of Mike’s hard lemonade lol.. hmm 🧐. Oops I wrote a novel .. no one will even read this lol.. but it helped me process a few things 😊.

54:20 I was BIC and the story of Joseph Smith and his leg was part of a whitewashed book for children to learn about the founder. That book definitely didn’t cover his polygamy. Lol

This whole series has been one "Holy shit" moment after another. I knew that the mormons were shady, simply from the people trying to convert me over the years, but damn!

Polygamy reminds me of Alpha males in nature who have "harems". The bigger the harem, the stronger the alpha male. "Hear me roar".

That thing where you start noticing folks who drive the same car is called the Baader-Meinhoff phenomenon or more simply thee Frequency Illusion. Everyone knows what it is, but they don't all know the weird German name for it. Ha!

Very interesting. I've been a member of the church since October of 2019. I've learned alot about the early days of joey. When I joined the church, I had a dream that the church went "dark side"...and that's why I joined it. When I first saw and heard him speak, I saw a darkness around the "prophet"...profit? Welp anywho, glad I found your channel miss. Gonna subscribe!

So many excellent points in this podcast. The church is so manipulative with investigators (and really with missionaries too). It's sickening.

A girl missionary told me if I read the book of morman my eye sight will b healed. . I tried and all I can say is liars and cons all mormans

Old king cole was a very good soul and a very good soul was he😁chiasmus

Love this discussion!

Totally agree with the point that reading the D&C (really reading it) is a good way to lose one's testimony. I mean one section is about how God is commanding the members of the church to build a nice house for Joseph Smith. Another one is about God telling Joe and some guys to go to Salem, Massachusetts on a treasure hunt for gold and silver and promising that they would find it. (Spoiler: They didn't find anything.) Then there's a section about how you can test whether an entity appearing to you is demonic or divine, by offering to shake the entity's hand. If the entity agrees to shake your hand but you don't feel any hand, that means it's a demonic entity. There's no evidence that this very important section of one of the key books of Mormon scripture has ever been useful even once in the entire history of the church. Basically, the entire D&C is just a collection of convenient "revelations" that Joe got basically saying in effect: "Hey, God told me to tell you that God wants you to do this thing for me...and if you don't' do this thing for me God will be unhappy."

Gaslighting when you are discovering things in history for the first time. Like the seer stone and top hat when you were taught another form of BM translation.

You guys nailed it. I escaped the Baptist cult which like the Mormon cult is all about dependence on authority rather than trusting your own heart and mind.

If I had been Joseph Smith and God "suggested" to me that smoking, alcohol and coffee/tea were bad in his sight, I believe I would have treated that "suggestion" as a Commandment right from the get-go!

John as “roast material”, that was good!

21:38 That also reminds me of the relevance of the papyrus under the catalyst theory in light of just how much money it took to pay for the mummies and papyrus. $2,400 seems like a nice chunk of money today, but if you look up a U.S. inflation calculator and input $2,400, just in 1913 that's equivalent to $70k! So you KNOW Joseph Smith was crowd funding the equivalent of over six figures in today's value for the purchase of these mummies and papyri. There's no way Joseph didn't believe they were the literal, original documents of Biblical people (or at least pretended to believe). _Because you don't pay over six figures for a catalyst!_

The explanation I got for the anachronisms like horses in the book of mormon was that either horses were there but went extinct in the Americas before Europeans first showed up or smith was trying to describe some other animal that he didn't have a word for, so he translated it as horses. Kind of like when the Spanish showed up with horses, the indigenous people started using their word for deer to describe them, as they didn't have a word for horse at the time. That's the thing with trying to debunk Mormonism by pointing out mistakes like that. There's always some way to rationalize them. You'd think the fact that there are so many things they have to explain away like that, it'd make more of them suspicious.

"Join my bank, or we're done" lol

I love it when Nuancehoe uses Simpsons references. It’s my favorite!

I have had these questions about most organized religions since I was 13. Crisis of faith? No, finding connections to people and nature. No god for me but I honor what most others believe, but I keep a wide berth.

Add this to the. BOM Claim. OK, Moroni took the plates back. So we don't have the plates, but the stone box that the plates were in should still be there. Where is the stone box as evidence? Been to Cummorah twice, no rock box is there that they were in, or in the Church archives.

Deutero-Isaiah references in the BOM makes as much sense as an “autonomous collective”in Middle Age England. I desire all to watch: Monty Python’s Holy Grail.

Oh, they know. Why else would they have forced John to be excommunicated

Samantha gave some really good analysis/comparisons she needs to come on again!

Just a point that men do still have a good chance at getting UTI even if it is reduced in comparison to women. The risk though reduced also often leads to further complications as well. No one wants to be getting those uti from a garment :P

That was my first temple experience.! 🤣 I went through once and never went back.

Love this video! The inclusion of clips was distracting at times (maybe limit it to 2 or 3), but other than that it was spot on!

Honestly, I don’t see a God who would want his people to do these things in his temples. I feel like religion is a man made thing.

One the Anti-banking con, JS also put dirt in the bottom of the money containers to make them appear more full to his investors.

Cara may want to interview this X christian guy at Bustin Jest youtube video: "The Story of Bustin Jest." His goal is to share some of the historical, Biblical and logical reasons he left Christianity and the Bible

Temple recommends at 53:17. Today many bishops will not give a recommend to a member who is less active in the church. There are no questions in the current interview about church attendance but some bishops are still using it as a requirement to get the temple recommend.

I totally didn't realize that was John! He looks like a hipster. 😂

37:11

John looks so young and hip !

1:11:00😂😂 Abso-🚚-lutely And so say all of us. However you need to be at least 17 to realise that!

Only caviat: it has now with creadible evidence been determined that Karesh ordered the compound to be set on fire after dosing it with gasoline

Good stuff, gang!

Non-Mormon here, but hasn’t the horse/chariot excuse been debunked?

I learned so much. Thank you

So NHM automatically equals Nahom of Book of Mormon fame because...what?? Vanna White?? Message to Mopologists: The producers of Wheel of Fortune called and they want their vowels back.

‘Mom’s cult radar went off’…should have listened😉

every little piece of info john drops blows my mind a tiny bit more

Spiritual experiences exist the way spiritual powers exist. Not in any demonstrable way.

The talk about not connecting to the BOM is so validating. Born and raised and I just couldn't focus or get anything out of it. And I love to read!

This is off topic from this video- but could be a great topic to cover for the coming Independence Day holiday-. Could you dive in to the obsession that is infiltrated with the founding fathers in the Mormon church? Apparently all the founding fathers have been baptized (for the dead?) and all my super Mormon friends have a painting of George Washington on their wall- surrounded by the constitution, etc. Perhaps a very niche topic- but would love a deep dive on that topic. Thanks for making this content! Love your perspective.

I would say, for me, the strongest argument of the BOM is that weird South American tablet they found that the church claims depicts Lehi's Dream. Not gonna lie, even now, years later, it totally does look like Lehi's Dream. It's actually kinda uncanny. Unless the tablet has been proved to be a forgery or something.

6:45 quick correction; Indigenous Americans actually have pre-Columbian genetic lineages from 3 distinct sources; the northwestern land bridge known as Beringia, the South Western pacific island hopping by those sometimes called Polynesians who then came up to America from the pacific up through South America, and the Solutrean culture which crossed the Atlantic by using boats to ride close to the edges of the ice sheets and walking across those same ice sheets if there were animals on them to kill for food, eventually landing on the east coast with a lot of their sites having been found in Delaware and Maryland. The Solutrean tool making evolved into the Clovis tool making over time, which was used far more broadly across North America by the natives than Solutrean tools had been previously. The natives Americans are ALL of these lineages(proven repeatedly through genetic testing), interwoven through marriages, through tribes joining up together to defend themselves and for darker reasons I don’t care to bring up here, but the Natives WERE the mound builders, it’s just difficult to determine which lineage built them because the dating is all over the place on them.

My 3 favorite exmo RU-vidrs! Love y'all

Great episode! Can’t wait for part 3

Oh my gosh.. what a polarizing stance from oaks

NuanceHoe is a hottie