Two small subs or One large sub? 

All day long!! Lol

With subs it's like engines.... No replacement for displacement. Big subs, large motors, giant amps, big batteries and massive wire. ....runs two twelves in a small sealed box.....

😄

100th like

hell yes!!

Buy one jl audio w7-8. Best small sub there is imo.

@@jondoe6618 If I was gonna use one small sub the 8W7 would be the one.

Really sad if you think this was a proper answer..

@@niro56 be

@@dednside5229 Did I miss something? I can't read the entire response. Every time I hit "read", I only get the option to reply. Plus, I see a dollar sign next to it. I don't know what that's all about.

Folded horns have the best fidelity and have the fastest transient response, then sealed are second. I find ported are slow and blur the transient resulting in a less realistic result tending to every track having the same boomy characteristics.

​@@brentlaube568have to click on it just right.

@Fish Chris does it matter the sub to match a passive radiator in sealed box? Like say one 15 pair with two 12 inch passive radiators?

@@430Xsidian_Lexus I'm not an expert, but from what I've read, you should use double the cone area... so one 15" sub would do best with two 15" PR's. And honestly, my two 15" PR's are pretty much maxed out. In retrospect, I should have followed this advice and went with two 18" PR's. You can use different sized PR's though, than your sub(s) like I did. You should just stick to close to double the surface area. I've considered adding one more 15" PR to my same enclosure. Wouldn't sound any different, it would just take some of the load off of my two current PR's.

Hey man any way you could make a video of your setup?? I’m considering doing something similar

takes too long to say the word subwoofer :P

2-6" subs or 1 foot long?

That's the weed talking.

If you want really good bass you'll have to calculate box and port sizes and stuff, luckily there is software to do this for you.

Lol

@@amusicmorning9190 what software

Jokes aside, the Math would actually help with the bass that you want. I’ll admit that it’s not simple Math (and I say that as someone who loves it), but the trade off is that you can become more efficient if you know the right Math and science. For example, if you’re just wanting bass in general then the right Math can get that achieved via 2 8 inch subs when you thought you needed 2 15s.

@@MannuhFestIt 2 - 8" 😂☠ Do all the math in the world & it wouldn't come close to 2-15" subwoofers 🤦🏻‍♂️

Lower group delay on sealed enclosures: media.discordapp.net/attachments/341540422566281216/632789649449943042/2.PNG?width=939&height=554 Also no phase flipping: media.discordapp.net/attachments/341540422566281216/632789655347134465/1.PNG?width=932&height=553

There's no practical difference, but if you imagine a box with a wall in the middle, it acts like good bracing. Also, if one driver blows the other one will continue working as if nothing happened.

Thanks !

I would of gone with 4 12s and double the power. 🤑

18s for the lower frequency. Good call!

@@Quest4Unknown 4 12s>

Every watt is a watt, but home audio always gets its rated voltage, when generally car amps want 14.4v, the lower the voltage the lower the current, and the lower the power. Since cars are small, it doesn't take a ton of power to get loud, which I think is why there are so many "6000 mega watt" car amps, because they're loud enough even though they're 200w RMS, but it really depends on brand. Good car audio brands do their power and more, eg. sundowns new salt-12 is a 12k amp which does 20,000 watts RMS at 1% THD. Another thing to factor in is efficiency, powerful car amps are class D, where as often powerful home audio amps, especially older ones, are class AB. Class AB amps draw more current for the same output.

could it be possible that the 50 pound denon amp was a "true analog" amp (transistors/mosfets, big ass heatsinks 'n' stuff) and the 5 pound car amp was a Class D ? word on the street (and in marketing material) is that class D amps are crazy efficient (like they can push 120+++ Watts to the speaker while sucking only 75 watts outta the mains socket)

@@KenjiUmino yeah, the denon could be a class A, which essentially turns all power which doesn't go to the speaker into heat, so at low volumes they can be super inefficient, as for class D they're typically 80-90% efficient, so take in 110 watts and output 100 watts, turning only 10 into heat. The denon could be turning 300w into heat for comparison.

Better to have them on different amplifiers, if the 4x40w amp can be bridged to give the 8" 80w even better!

@@Dakoustics how do I know it can?

JL have some of the highest quality car audio subs. From what you're describing you're best off going with a subwoofer with a Qts ranging from 0.6 to 0.7. Most subwoofers tend to have a Qts from 0.3 to 0.5, so might require some hunting, though in essence since the enclosure is so large its not providing much damping on the driver, so its up to the drivers suspension to do it itself. High excursion is ideal, as once again with low damping the driver tends to move quite a bit at low frequencies. So low profile might not be ideal. The shallow mount driver you linked wouldn't do too bad a job, but its Qts is a tad lower than ideal at 0.45. I can't think of an ideal driver off the top of my head, though I'll do a quick bit of research and come back if I find anything decent.

I had a quick look, I found the Dayton Ultimax 12" seems to have decent specs, and should sound good. It is quite deep though. www.daytonaudio.com/product/1118/um12-22-12-ultimax-dvc-subwoofer-2-ohm-per-coil

If you're looking for shallow mount, Rockford Fosgate has a shallow 12" with Qts of 0.66 which should do quite well www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/details/r2sd2-12/

Hope you went with the 8"

Well it depends on you . Id build a larger sub enclosure 🤠👍

@@bobcat3653 plan to and custom to my trunk.

Not necessarily true.

Vibrating is a result of bad adjustments mostly higher gain, lot of guys don't know that amp's knobs complement each other, if you add something, you might wanna reduce the other. Fact is you need to understand what responce you get from turning each amp knobs clockwise or anti-clockwise, ironically the knob's numbers aren't important since how good it sounds depends on the subwoofer's response. This is a complex skill but your can achieve through experimenting and that takes time period. There's all kinds of info on audio but it a complete story as soon you have everything connected and running

Once you understand the feedback of amps knobs and adjusting; assuming you built a right box with reliable components you can safely push any subwoofer close to it's limit without distorting. I'm currently running 1 good 12'' for a reason but has experimented with many subs, 2 10's, 12's and 15's and most people think I'm running 2x12" and they are even SHOCKED to see how low I have my gain set

A 12" sub doesn't actually have 12" diameter of cone area though. On average most subs tend to have about 70% of their actual size-diameter as cone area. So a 10" sub for example would have an effective 7" diameter of cone. And a 7" cone has 38.5 sq inches of area, NOT 78.54.

Also i should add, when measuring the cone diameter, you should account for 1/3rd of the surround on both sides.

Yeah I have one 15" now in 4.23 cubic feet ported. Thinking about getting 4 10s ported instead.

@@Luminous.Dynamics Those 4 10"s would hit hard.

@@lloydhudson6463 I wanna do that but already bought a ZV5 15, and Im not sure how much louder 4 Sundown U10s might be. If noticeably louder on same 5K amp, maybe it's worth it huh ?

@@Luminous.Dynamics Well, if you already bought the 15, just add another one, lol

very cool drivers, I wasn't originally a fan of square drivers due to extra stress in the corners 2 8's look like they'll get louder around the 50-60Hz mark, though don't go as low, so it's up to you

Dakoustics , can you tune a 8 down to 33hz in a ported box would you happen to know the size of the box cheers Great job on your videos actually explaining everything in fantastic detail

It does depend on the box a bit, but in general, yes. The single 18 on more power will do much better than 2 12s on half its power total. Similarly, 2 12s may use a 2 cu ft box, and 1 18 more like a 4 cu ft box. The 2 12s compared with 1 10 gets a bit hairy. It should end up being around 3-4dB less efficient, but its also on 3-4dB more power, so should be similar depending on tuning etc. If it's 2 shallow 12s in a small box compared with a single 10", high excursion big motor sub in its perfect box, it could be above the 12s by 3dB or more.

Dakoustics that was fast man thanks. I was meaning 1 8 inch like one single hi excursion hi power 8inch vs those shallow low power 12s but I think it’s the same as you were saying with 1 hi output 10 vs 2 low watt 12’s. Thank you so much man I appreciate it

@@jesp5842 Yeah, its more or less the same, tricky though to get it quite right. At that high wattage, subs often need small boxes to control their excursion, though small boxes tend to be less efficient. You'd need a mighty 8" sub. Could also consider something like a 6th order to get the most out of it. 6dB less efficient, 3dB more power if at 1k, so 6th order might be required to get that extra 3dB on top to come out equal. Box will still be smaller than the 2 12s.

3dB per doubling of driver count, so for 3 total drivers its more like 4.8 dB more. Still very similar to the 6dB I'm guessing you used, but its not like 100 8" subs are over 300dB. Also when you consider power consumption, 3 8" 250w subs are way louder than one 12" 250w sub. Should kick ass, especially when its behind the seat

Hard to describe, I'll make a video on how to design a box eventially, but for now there should be other peoples videos with good information.

@Mr. Happy can you tell me more details about what you're trying to do because I still have this crazy idea of installing a single 18 in my Honda Accord but my idea was to fire the sub down towards the spare wheel well, port to the side. (Spare tire well which of course wouldn't have the spare in it) Currently just have a single 15 on 2K but a single 18 interests me

in a large ported box

@@lorenzo42p 6th order and you can have what you desire.

Probably not, but check WinISD. Higher QTS often means bigger box, 0.391 is low-ish.

If built correctly... the amount of wood and trail/error isn't worth it unless you have money to burn.

A nice tline is almost as easy to build as any nowadays. Hornresponce, thx to Mr David Mcbean

No one has enough space in a car to build a TL around a big subwoofer.

If you don't have the space I recommend using a smaller driver T lines are amazing and well worth the effort I was on the fence about them too until I build one all low frequency that comes out of the box is clean crisp and amazing people are blowing away when I tell them that I have just one 12 there's no more of that one hit wonder frequency they all hit good and clean and hard it's not a power-hungry design box which makes it even better

Foodhates, dont waste wood, simulate first. Adrei, 40x18x16, isnt too big? Theres two 570cm2 faced 12s in that space tuned in the Low 30s. Taper your line.

Your advice is also over-generalized. The difference between different drivers is greater than the difference between different sizes. People just like to talk about size because it's easy to understand, just like power ratings are. People will walk away when you start talking about how many Tesla*meters the motor generates and how electromechanical underdamping leads to narrow peaks in response before roll-off measured full width at half maximum around resonance derived from the system transfer function and so on. Loud, low, and small is possible but the tradeoff is much lower efficiency. Just like loud and low with few watts is possible but the tradeoff is huge woofers and boxes. The simplest advice is that bigger is always better and more is also always better, within reason, so however much space you're willing to give up, use it all and just model various drivers until you get the best predicted response.

I not a professional but Ain't it the difference in speed of speaker eg fast bass for smaller subs and slow heavy bass for bigger subs But then comes the box not to mention the amp This video actually put it in better perspective nice video😃😃😃

@@davey2k12 No differences in speed of movement. That's all dependent on the subwoofer motor structures and how the sub is built.

@@davey2k12 that's a old myth. When you size up the magnet and coils also size up. it would only matter if you used a terrible driver

@@FSXgta oh I see lol 😁

There is no such thing as fast or slow subs baised on size. Even though the cone is heavier, it only moves half as far. In boxes designed to the same QTS, they sound the same, even in fast music.

Ah a regular! Cheers for contributing to my view counter, and in turn my bottom line.

sell those and buy one jl audio w7-8. I bet its louder and cleaner and hit really low.

@@jondoe6618 not enough room. Standard cab toyota truck

@@A8vscRrabbit Ah I hear ya there.

I have mine in 1.30 cubes pr . Hits down to 30 befor it bottoms out

@@jondoe6618 no disrespect but jl is way over priced.

I don't really know of any, there are channels which make decaf, some remixes are still detected but i suppose with proper crediting you'd be able to use a small producer, also if you get their permission, the hunt could be irritating though

@@Dakoustics I think RU-vid has some "stock" music I can use. I'll do some Googling to find it.

@@stevenon5664 there is NCS, or non-copyright songs, not sure if they've got much bass bass though

@@Dakoustics I just found this: ru-vid.commusic?ar=1571502060021&nv=1

A whole video dedicated to what you’re trying to achieve complete with them lows 😁 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rZRSNduLRV8.html

This one is 2 drivers parallel, I'll do 2 drivers series soon as I'm on break from uni.

Thank you, you are great ! :d

WinISD: www.linearteam.org/

Dual subs is almost always better than one big one. Running dual subs will reduce peaks and nulls, localisation smoother bass respond more head room. So you’re wrong when you say ‘quality over quantity’ Have you had a listen to one bigger sub vs smaller dual subs? There definitely are pros and cons but believe me running dual is a much better experience it’s directional you can place the subs in different areas where one big sub you can’t

@@amin4006 Depends on the sub(s) man.

@@sagered8007 that’s true, you need to compare apples with apples. Lets say dual 10” rel vs one 12” rel you will get a better experience with the dual 10” Im currently running dual svs sb1000pro and I can tell you it’s a far better experience than one sb2000pro

@@amin4006 I don't doubt dual 10" is better than a single 12". But i bet that dual 5" isn't better than a single 10". And when i made this comment i was talking about having multiple drivers in a single box. Just realized that could cause confusion. Look at the thumbnail of the vid.

@@sagered8007 Fair enough man, in that case I would rather one big driver in a single box too

Sound localization is done through Time Differences (phase shift - frequency arives at one ear slightly earlier than on the other one) and Level Differences (volume - frequency arrives at one ear slightly louder than on the other) So, i'm Just sayin, for human hearing frequencies below 800 Hz already get difficult to locate since below that only time differences get recognized. Level differences are difflicult to detect and get even more difficult to detect the lower you go. Anything below 80 Hz of frequency is next to impossible to locate since both time differences aswell as level differences can't be detected properly anymore. Same as above, the lower the frequency the harder it gets. Thats why next to no one bothers playing with more than one sub and why subs are placed basically "wherever is proper space". So doing stereo separation for subs is rather unnecessary unless the crossover frequency is higher than, lets say 80Hz and your hearing is prime. But 2 subs are always better than 1 in terms of power and fun :)

Knowledge came from studying, books, websites, mucking around in winISD, also even highschool and uni physics. A big source too of general knowledge came from youtube, there are nuggests around and if you watch enough. Guys like HexiBase and EMF audio have some great videos. WinISD can get things wrong, often it'll output super peaky results for high Q low vas drivers. I'd say it's accurate for a specific middle range of drivers, but yeah no way a 6.5 should be in a 2 cube box. That's what I put 12's in. Also how did you use the DATS v2? thinking of getting one, did you use added mass, or specific airspace?

@@Dakoustics On the 2cuft box those were the parameters that came with the woofers, and I used DATS to get the real parameters. On DATS its petty easy plug it into a pc then hook it up to the speaker and use the software to do frequency sweep and you get all the info on the driver. Its a nice little tool and will soon pay for its self in time saved. They current have V3 of DATS either shipping or will be soon. Tho it did go up $20 for V3. I'm still fairy new to working out the magic of Thiele-small parameters, HexiBase has been a big help in working out where I went wrong with the 6.5 inch woofers. That being said, in the past winISD has done very good on some 10 inch and 12 inch sub boxes. I have also found that with most builds (not all) you can get better bass with polyfill in most sealed and some ported boxes. The stuff sold as filling for art projects seems to work just as good as the high dollar stuff you can get from places like Parts Express. Here is the video on DATS this is the V1 and the V2, V3 are most just more robust with added accuracy. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-dARRX-tZpg4.html

@@99Duds V3 looks good, I'll get it if it gets a good review. I'm currently building a sealed box for a mate, and didn't put polyfil in it before essentially glueing the sub in, but due to its geometry it doesn't seem to have any higher resonance, at least not at the woofer frequencies. The horn however has an awful resonance at around 200Hz due to the driver being mounted into essentially an echo chamber. Geometry matters. Also I'll do a Thiele-Small video at some point,

Yes, extra motor force per area manifests itself as the driver being able to overcome the higher pressures of a smaller enclosure. Trying to minimise diaphragm mass is a battle, especially considering higher power voice coils, and optimising parameters for smaller enclosures. Also, in regards to the edge lagging behind, the ribs/concentric circles seen in the cones of some PA speakers and guitar speakers are designed to do exactly that. Low frequencies make their way outward, maximising area, though high frequencies don't. This avoids the issue of "beaming", where high frequencies are only audible directly in front of the cone. Adding the ripples improves midrange of such speakers.

1 big better lmao

@@Dakoustics thanks ;

WinISD is the box modelling program he used

He's using Win ISD. I'm going to try and find it now.

Thanks

You can’t understand Australian, Kiwi or South African. Sounds like South African to me. I could be wrong and have deeply offended the narrator. Please accept my apology, if I did offend you.

Can't understand an Australian man?

very true

Smaller cone - higher Fs, and higher rolloff, doesn’t dig as low as loud, very precise cone control and therefore bass Bigger cone - lower Fs, much smaller low end rolloff, digs low loud, utilizes a larger and heavier cone resulting in less precise bass and muddier higher bass. I prefer both. 2 SA6.5’s, 1 SA12 classic. Matching sundown amps relative to each’s RMS, Spec built boxes. I’m more than happy, setup for SQ.

Box was probably just tuned high to enhance the kick drum frequency

@@jase1911 how would you do that? He had a sealed box. It could've been a 12' or 15' it wasn't that big but it was a monster !

4 12's if space is not an issue... more surface area

I'd say 2 15s in a huge box opposed to 4 12s, but if you've got a ton of space to give them all enough room I guess 4 12s might be better. But most of the time I'd say 2 15s will be the better choice.

@Uncle Scam not necessarily, you could get lower with 2 15s in a huge box. 4 12s would require more space to get the right box volume.

@Uncle Scam it makes perfect sense.

@Uncle Scam but it's all relative to the equipment and the vehicle. So either could end up sounding better. Most people would be more impressed with 2 15s with a lot of volume though. But if you've got the space 4 12s would sound great too. It's all relative. On average I'm more impressed with a couple larger woofers. But that's just my opinion man.

I don't know what you are trying to say

@@Luminous.Dynamics its a old comment allot has changed i wasn't exactly experienced yet but i was referring to liking my sq build over a few spl builds my friends had at the time i personally don't care anymore about what you run as long as it properly powered not starving for watts hopefully that clears that up man

Thats funny you say this. I have a Kicker Comp Rt 12 Encloser W passive radiator and a 1 10 Comp Vr sealed. its slamming

Yes