UK Post Office Scandal: Vennells vs Beer - victim blaming is okay! 

Here here !!! Screw you Paula Vennells 😂. Ex postmistress Kathy here again. Love your take on this. I'm now living my best life and starting to enjoy my life once more. Keep up the good work mate. Xx

Dear Paul, Fantastic analysis, thank you If I may please, I would add that on the final day of Vennells questioning, Mr.Tim Moloney KC played an absolute blinder by showing her an email of her slating the SPM's, and she was not expecting it, and both her body language along with her verbal demena showed Mr.Molony in both his "gentle" mannerisms then producing that email she was totally stunned.. The POL can get lawyers to prep them all ready for the days session, but Sir Wyn, Jason Beer and core participents will always win !!

Jason Beer KC is one cool dude 👍

"I'm terribly sorry - it's all my fault!" - Words that no-one will ever utter at the PO enquiry.

Thanks Paul.. I avidly watch all the IT inquiry with Sir Wyn and his team… I love it when Mr Beer does the old side eye…. You know something is coming… all the team have and still are doing a great job to leave no stone unturned and yes I also love the team who ask the questions at the end and you see the witnesses positively squirming… and after all that it’s good to catch up with your take on it either to validate my understanding was correct or throw light on what I may have missed.👏👏👏👏

I think the system and the company that created it ARE to Blake for the 'on paper' shortages. However, Vennels and her minions hiding it from the people convinced and Parliament IS her fault 1st and spreads out going downhill from her in the Org Chart. SHE lied to them Sub Post Masters, to the PMs who questioned them in 2013 and ongoing after. Over 700 families, and all their friends, acquaintances and PO customers had their lives CHANGED drastically and in most cases irreparably. I am not a Brit. I am an American, but we have corruption and government problems here too. But hopefully these people, both sides of the pond, will get their just dues.

Imagine, at your place of work, some money goes missing. You get blamed. If you deny it you are threatened with court resulting in prison. Or if you admit it you just get a suspended sentence or community punishment. So to avoid prison you admit guilt. Over and done with you think. Then your company sues you for court costs because you were found guilty, you owe £350,000 in court costs. Your life ruined. This company is called the Post Office. Their logo is " whatever you need us for, we're here for you". They spent £100 million in expensive lawers to try to avoid paying £58 million in compensation. The class action saw the incorrectly convicted see £20,000 in compensation after court costs. The executive salaries were between £250,000 and £500,000. Post Office investigators were given bonuses for every Horizon conviction

As Sam stein Kings Council , Stated youre not stupid , She backed the system and when it started to fall apart , she doubled down yet again . She knew what she was doing and she got found out .

I think 4 topped themselves - or attempted it. Vennells reminds me of Prince Andrew being too honourable to be at fault.

Isn’t that the essence of tragedy? That a person is responsible for their own downfall? If you’re a victim of yourself, how much pity you deserve depends on the motives for your actions. When you’ve taken down thousands of innocent and powerless people with you, you’re going to need some damn good motives for what you did if you want to avoid blame. Vennells’ motives were and continue to be, entirely self-serving. She deserves to spend many years in prison.

Appreciate your analysis.

Thank God Beers was setting a trap - for a second it felt like he was letting her off.

Brilliant analysis, Paul. I enjoyed your piece on Vennells and van den Bogerd too. This whole sorry business highlights the dangers of protecting a company/brand at all costs to the detriment of the ordinary staff who work there. The well-being of the staff is viewed as being of no consequence. They are considered to be expendable and when they are harmed, this is felt to be merely collateral damage. Faceless, soulless managment at its very worst.

Another great and insightful video of undoing the wrong doers , well done Dr Duckett , this channel is compulsive viewing for those who want to see justice prevail at the end of this inquiry

Perhaps at some point the question about why governments have so resolutely sat on their hands about all this for so long until forced by the media to look at it should be asked. Who alse is hiding from accountability?

The catch 22 is this, if they had not ignored evidence of bugs in Horizon so as to protect their integrity and had properly investigated them, their integrity would still be intact. Because they ignored evidence of bugs their integrity is destroyed.

After she left the post office she got a very high up job in the NHS. When it became common knowledge that she was implicated in the post office scandal, the NHS asked her to resign from her post there. She refused, and it was only after a high ranking employee of the NHS threatened to resign that Ms vennells finally stepped down. She obviously has a very high level of confidence in herself.

I'm interested in exploring how confirmation bias played its role in the early days of the Horizon scandal. The late 1990s was a period of great transformation from paper-based systems to new whizz-bang IT systems. Back then, one of the justifications for spending these eye watering amounts of money on the new IT toys was that The Business would be able to root out fraud and theft that was probably hiding in the paper-based systems being replaced. Cut to 2 years later, the managers get to point to the 20 or 30 successful prosecutions per year, and they can say: See!! We told you the system would root out the thieves. At that stage, It would take a very special person to say, as the case-count kept rising: "Just a minute we're getting far too many cases.... something is not right"

This woman is a deeply religious person. Therefore as such. How should she react the second she heard there is a pregnant woman possibly wrongly convicted? She didn't do as we would expect a genuinely religious soul to do. Therefore is her religion a mask?

Eh, "system problem". She controlled the system. She controlled the structure. She was *paid handsomely* for the *responsibilities* she took (this is why CEOs are paid so much, after all - something they point out every time the topic of exorbitant CEO salaries comes back), exactly because if the sh hit the fan, *she* would be held *responsible* . And lo and behold - she is! What is the fuss all about?

As one of the victims I feel it is the establishment scapegoating Vennells so they can hide away in the shadows and never have the light of inquisition shone upon them. It's a little like blaming the camp commandant of Belsen for everything and then allowing the senior people in command to walk away without any stain whatsoever let alone accountability. Vennells was obeying orders given to her by senior civil servants and government ministers and in some cases we don't even know who they were! They were the ones who wrote the targets and they knew the wrongful prosecutions of Subpostmasters was happening but they ordered Vennells to carry on. We know ministers knew because Ed Davey's brother worked for cartwright king who were prosecuting subpostmasters and we know he received a lucrative 'consultancy' after he left office. The senior people are not being brought to account in any of this and are leaving others to carry the can for them.

It is not just that the Post Office blamed the sub-postmasters/sub-postmistresses but that is not the whole truth. The other half is that in British Law of the time, the records presented by a computing system were (perhaps still are) assumed to be the black-and-white truth.

Thanks for this. Really interesting. It’s such a shame that corporate greed is still alive and well as the main priority of the systems and it depresses the hell out of me because my son is working in one of them. 😢

Thank you for your analysis. I recently found your channel and it really helps me to understand what is going on during the inquiry. I am so angry at how the subpostmasters were treated and long to see justice done. Delighted that Alan Bates is now Sir Alan! Please keep your channel going. All the best.

Always be suspicious when a psychologist decides to employ an underscore...

The person at the top should be capable of stepping "outside" the system and seeing it in perspective, and not rely entirely on the next layer down,. The should be capable of seeing when things go wrong. I have worked in a large organisation fairly close to the top and there is no way that hundreds of "coal face" workers being charged with wrong doing would not be noticed and questioned. Most organisations are nothing like Vennels' Post Office was.

'I didn't ask for that strategy...however I followed it."

I saw this time and time again when I worked with the NHS - if mistakes were made, don't look for blame: it's the system, it's circumstances, it's almost anything but individual failure or fault. This is a form of insanity, and it's guaranteed never to reveal the truth, or resolve problems - "lessons have been learned", they always, and I mean ALWAYS, say; but they haven't been, because the mechanism to cause them to be learned is entirely absent.

These videos are fantastic! I'm glued to these hearings, and your analysis afterward makes it bearable emotionally.

It is always nice hear Paul's analysis of the 'Horizon scandal'. Although Paul is originally from here in the UK, it is refreshing to hear his 'outsider's', and more impartial than the various British commentators', view. Also, it makes a change to listen to the views of a psychologist on this issue - 'community psychology' sounds an interesting area of study too. On a more personal note, Paul's accent is now a lovely mix of his old British origins and his Australian home of these later years.

Victim blaming is obviously okay, the POL did just that.

Just subscribed. Two reasons, your style of presentation and the last few minutes of the video. Thank you for wanting to do all this.

Vennells: Deliberate, carefully constructed obfuscation.

The main question might be: why has this happened? What was the key pivotal reason?

That is an excellent analysis; thank you. (Despite my perhaps rather 'dodgy' channel name, I'm a retired psychotherapist) I've been looking for an analysis of Vennells' replies to the various questions. To me, she appeared to be going for the 'gullible idiot' defence - tricked and fooled by others and let down by the 'system' But, of course, she's neither, and you've demonstrated that very well.

I'd suggest "victim blaming" versus "system blaming" as described here is a false dichotomy. Systems that reward sociopathic behaviour tend to attract and reward sociopaths - or at least, individuals who are willing/able to suppress their prosocial and empathetic impulses in favour of gaining personal rewards from the system. The key dimension is power. How far does the individual have the power to resist the system? In this case, Vennells clearly had the power to reject or change how the PO prosecutorial system worked. She chose not to do so.

I like your hats! Very interesting analysys. Thanks!

Really enjoyable, it made me consider the whole of Vennell's testimony in a different light.

I agree with all you say what eventually will happen I cannot think.

Am I right to think that Vennells is being just a tiny bit duplicitous?

Excellent, please do more like this on the Inquirey. How about doing Angela Va de ??? ... or whatever the last bit of her name is .

another insightful analysis, thank you.

Great work thank you.

She is clever but not smart. I often wonder how she could fix things now. Being honest would help but would probably put her in jail. Of course, if she was actually a real Christian, that is exactly what she should do.

I really don’t see that Paula Vennells can be considered a “victim” of anything other than her own arrogance. She was CEO and thus the buck stopped with her and she should be held accountable. The only victims of this debacle and massive miscarriage of justice are the 900 or so sub postmasters who were accused of theft / false accounting. Her tears in the Enquiry were for herself, pathetic self-pity and attempting to paint herself as somehow a victim is just insulting to the sub postmasters and to us, the public.

Excellent analysis, sir.

Next ring side seat....Moya Green evidence. Hands are wringing at the prospect of throwing PV under the bus!

First video of yours I’ve seen - I like your nuanced thoughtful analysis . Subscribed !

I think your sound in this new home is very clear and has a slight sonority and tone that adds clarity -its actually quite unique or distinct…dont change it if you dont have too…sound geek here xx PS you have a lovely handsome face and a demeanor to match.

In this case bad people did bad things. The problem arises because we’re conditioned to believe that well educated, highly paid “managers” are not the bad people.

Vennells will be "found not fit to stand trial", by the time charges are brought. Even shoulder pads and a fancy brooch can only get you so far in the Public Sector.

I’m confused. We have seen that Paula Venells has worked hard to weave a story where she is a victim. However, the facts and tone of past emails show a smart, calculating leader working to lay the story that benefits her regardless of the facts. The facts point to a manipulative individual who wanted a certain image to be portrayed for her own benefit repeatedly regardless of the impact on others. Why is it so hard to expose her? Why are we so accepting of the victim portrayal?

Remember the fictional additional balance could not be linked to a single transaction. How that got to court and out the other end, is mind blowing. Many thousands of pounds but the PO couldnt explain how they got this money. It wasn't for stamps. How come they didn't ask these questions or have a modicum of doubt even though they had just one set of data without external correlation.

No contest, Beer by a knockout.

To have that many people at all ranks, indicates that certain traits such as compliance with superiors (yes men) or troublemakers with ethics, have been sought or filtered out by selection.

Thank you, that was really interesting.

Bad bad people ,,not system. Baaaaaddd .

As CEO, she and she alone was responsible for the culture and ethics within the organisation she ran. She had the power to change it yet didn't. That tells me everything I need to know about her character.

Albert Speer used this defence, I didn't know about the death camps. I should have looked deeper but I didn't look and I am therefore guilty. He escaped hanging with that tactic.

I really hate violence but PV really does have a face to slap. I trust she is looking forward to her free B&B that she so deserves courtesy of HMP

PV asked for background on complainants mental health. How did she intend to pursue this? Phone hacking, private detectives, bribery to get data? Sounds illegal to me

750;pages a middling sized book by Steven King then

Attention seeking are we. I'll just fix.

Who's in charge of the system .

Fantastic analysis.

Stumbled on your channel earlier, really enjoyed this, you have a very interesting and engaging way of breaking things down so I'm subscribed and going to go back and have a nosey through your other content. and yes Screw you PV, awful woman !! I love JB though amazing forensic mind ;-D

Thank you

The Post Office is not a sentient being - the employees were/are.

She was shafted by everyone who worked for her. She should have been aware that Horizon when selected by the Government in 1999 was never fit-for-purpose and the hope was that the Fujitso post-development would address the major flaws before anybody noticed. Being naive and too trusting she played into their hands. Then Fujitso well and truly shafted PO seeing PO as rich pickings. To note that the decade before JV was when the seed was planted and many issues stemmed from this period so those in charge at the time are equally culpable. One point not made so far is that Horizon was meant to detect genuine fraud so mind-set and all processes in place were just doing what it was meant to be doing. No one asked why it was so widespread.

Good video i enjoyed it. We change tack not tact 👍

"I didn't ask for that strategy", I just implemented it

Brilliant end summary 😂

... would they all stop blaming the Post Office.

Too trusting…typical lazy boss she hoped her Rottweilers would do her dirty work for her.

The system was to blame The system that rewards incompetence and or corruption

Thanks for this - a Stanley Milgram explanation or the public lynching of Paula?? In fact this is more like a 'cult of belief' in Horizon by Paula, Sue, Alice and Mandy. Cults of belief need sacrifices and SPMs fitted the bill. Cult members find it very difficult to realise their beliefs are erroneous. It is no coincidence that Paula has religious pretentious. Talking her out of Horizon is like trying to talk her out of Christianity.

Interesting considered analysis here after the dust has settled.

Editing your videos is a good thing. The first minute, please.🙄

I bet she needed a beer after that.

"Victim blaming" in this case would be blaming the sub post-masters, no?

A woman of the cloth, meh

Dr Todd Grande has a range of cacti arranged behind when giving his analysis, often on crimes... Just an idea anyway.

The poor woman lost all of her employment, eight years on the dole, she must have lost her house!

Yes thank you You involved in a discipline that has lost its credibility.

Whats with these PO senior women executives ... high and mighty hypocrites .. these stereotypical cruel women .. over promoted .. they escalated their commitment and doubled down instead of doing the right thing

I'm sure Vennells was intensively briefed and rehearsed before this session. However, she made a complete hash of it when faced with the actual truth. The level of cognitive dissonance was just too much for her to handle.