UNDER THE BANNER OF HEAVEN - What it's about and why everyone should watch it! 

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"Owned" you? Sheesh! I'm sorry you had to deal with that garbage.

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None deserve to be owned. Every religions has s**** that can't be support this days.

I understand exactly we're your coming from I'm a man in the Mormon church but I was raised in it as kid. I truly disliked how my mother and us kids were treated growing up. I think the who benefitted from it was my father because the rest of us sure didn't.

Sadly, domestic abuse is very common among the LDS church behind closed doors. I love how they’re accurately depicting how the priesthood and patriarchy in the church is abusive against the women and girls in it that they have to “honor the priesthood/priesthood holders”. My older brother teases the missionaries that he’ll start taking lessons again and return to church when his daughter (my niece) can carry the priesthood herself someday. They always reply back that it probably will never happen and he just tells them, “They said the same thing about black people. I’ll wait.” Lol.

@Tara Mama agreed. The men in the Mormon Church are taught they are superior to women and it shows in how they abuse and demean women. I am sorry you went through abuse. And there are so many women who have suffered at the hands of Mormon Priesthood holders and still suffering today.

Is the book of the same name?

@@AmbyJeans yes the book by John Krakauer is called “Under the Banner of Heaven” and there is another really good book called “Secret Lives of Saints” by Daphne Bramham that is also very good. They are both journalists.

This is either a lie or the act of people who are NOT members of the LDS church in good standing. If you know anything about these people (names for example) I encourage you to go to the authrities.

Yes, this is a crime and should be reported. It is an independent issue from anything with the church.

I’m sorry but this is total BS. You are either extremely gullible or a liar.

@@briddle1978 🤔

@@briddle1978By your refusal to even consider that this could have happened within LDS 100 years ago is an clear and convincing argument that the described events aren’t only entirely plausible, but are confidently possible. Your assertive and overreaching refusal that this could not have happened by LDS “in good standing”🙄 proves the absolute refusal of the church in general to err on the side to believe or even investigate these claims. That’s a truly sick position to defend.

Live to serve 🥰🙌🏻

@nuancehoe: humilityhoe! :)

Was he arrested? Or was he allowed to go on his mission?

@@Silver-zc1tb Went on his mission

Ted Garrison not surprising unfortunately. Hopefully his mission was more miserable than prison would’ve been. SA is rampant in the LDS church and virtually no one is punished or ex communicated.

@@Silver-zc1tb Well aware, I worked for the cult for three years after I retired as a cop protecting their property and their apostles.

@@Silver-zc1tb lol. Rampant? Where are you getting this info. Load. Let’s look at all the sexual assault that happens in other religions let alone the catholic church.

Completely agree

@@lq6424 so glad that you and your family managed to get out. The proselytising is just so predatory, and the fallout of finding the truth seems devastating. In seeing everyone's stories I'm so greatful to have been raised agnostic.

@@lq6424 that's amazing!

@L: Glad to hear you guys got out! **virtual hugs**

Sounds like they are trying extremely hard to main mainstream lds as these two psychos. Which I think is pretty ridiculous considering they belonged to a fundamentalist group who even the group kicked these two psychos out.

They didn’t portray mainstream Mormons very realistically at all. It makes it easy for “the real” Mormons to point and say, “so glad our brand of Mormonism is so normal” and that the Laffertys were outliers. And they were, but they were born of and created by the mainstream church. I look at the FLDS (Jeffries) and think, “that is the Mormon church without the proclamation which saved them from themselves.”

10-15 years later there will be a Netflix/Hulu on Chad and Lori.

@Maizzy Agreed. Religions that teach people it is okay to murder someone if your leader, or "God" tells you to do it are inspiring people to murder others. The Mormon Church inspired these murders by claiming The Book of Mormon is the Word of God and the "most correct book" on earth. In the opening pages of The Book of Mormon Nephi murders a man named Laban because he is sure God is telling him to murder him. God then rewards Nephi by making him Prophet over all the people. Do you think the murderers were inspired by the example of Nephi committing murder? The Mormon Church sure holds him up as THE HERO, when he is a murderer.

Same, I was so shocked to see JS with his face in a hat! But I'm glad they show that cuz so many ppl both in and out of the religion have no idea about it. I didn't until years after my departure from the faith.

@@sydneychristensen2058 Good for you for having the courage to leave!

@@sydneychristensen2058 so you chose the devil,shame on you .

Shouldn't we have laws about people who lead armed insurrections against the federal government not being allowed to run for office? If the Bundys were black they would have been shot down years ago. They owed the government millions of dollars in grazing fees for running cattle on land they DO NOT OWN and refused to pay permits on. Instead of paying the fines, they ran more cattle, completely ruining the local ecology. When BLM agents tried to step in and do something about it, they were met with an armed militia that had snipers training their weapons on federal agents' heads from the freeway overpasses. Somehow, the government stood down and let them walk... complete bullshit. The Bundys are dangerous lunatics.

You sound like a leftist loon.

Any cult leader will never be a president thank actual God

Can you explain what that is?

@@vfxtutswithdan1893 Brigham Young taught that Christ atonement did not cover eternal sin. And one is allowed to kill another to cover the eternal sin

Thiiiiiissss. That case is WILD and intrinsically tied up with the LDS church. If it gains more mainstream attention... yeah. The LDS church is going to be in even more of a world of hurt public opinion-wise.

Vallow and Daybell, again, are not LDS. They were excommunicated for their beliefs in literally those things they did.

@@briddle1978 please stop defending Mormons, the doctrine is the root of the problem and it's rotten!

@@briddle1978 exactly what an idiot apologist would say

I agree. It's so much more sinister and psychologically damaging

So you were invited to participate in a sealing (marriage) in the temple? That is what the new and everlasting covenant is. If this isn't the case, you don't know what you are talking about.

@@briddle1978 Maybe you could ask them instead of assuming?

@@choosethewright7652 my thoughts exactly. Talking about wanting to hear an ex-Mormon vs actually active Mormon. Lol. It’s almost a fact that most ex Mormons always seem to have the biggest chip on their shoulders. But I guess you would have to, to leave the church in the first place. If someone wants to leave the church then by all means. I won’t judge for that one but because I myself have some SERIOUS questions the last three + years on history and inconsistencies. But one thing I won’t do is try to paint all Mormons as these two crazy guys. Most lds members are just normal good people trying to do their best. Know who the real culprits are here peeps.

@@choosethewright7652 because I’m extremely against fundamentalist religious groups and cults, including Mormonism, and I don’t really want to hear from people who are still brainwashed and indoctrinated.

@@GMoney-B I have no interest right now in hearing from people who are still in the religion. I am not religious and I’m extremely against fundamentalist religious groups. I like to hear from the people who escaped from it.

@@natalierose13 well, what’s the point in listening to one side only unless you just want confirmation bias to make yourself feel more validated? You can’t really have a grasp on things if you don’t listen to all the many different sides of an issue. Not always just two sides either as in this case. There are ex Mormons, Mormon fundamentalists and modern day Mormons that I spoke of, as well as many other types of Mormons too if you want to get specific.

@@choosethewright7652 I honestly think you put this better than anyone else has in comments about the church / as well as modern day Mormons. I still have yet to watch the show. I’m waiting till all the episodes are out so I can binge it and save some money verses keeping it for a bunch of months. From what I am hearing and have been reading in the history of the church is that the show creators are going off of things that the church used to do early early on in church history. One thing I wish this show and others would realize though is that even though some of the things were done(to an extent) is that that does not reflect what the church is today and who the leaders and members are today. Many people think they have it so right about what se believe but they have no idea and most couldn’t have a more distorted view of what we teach and believe on Sunday’s. Lol. Thanks for sharing and putting it into words more eloquently than I have been able to and could.

People can say all they want about things being weird or inconsistent in the church. I get that completely. But one thing that the church and its members have never been are violent, apart from some few like these guys in the story who went awol from the church. They belonged to a fundamentalist group that even the people in that group didn’t approve of what they wanted to do and were kicked out. I don’t know where people are getting this other info.

@@GMoney-B Sorry GBDude, but if you will search History you will find that both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were murderers and violent. Do you not know about Orrin Porter Rockwell and the Danites? The Danites were Joseph Smith’s special band of assassins. These men were devout Mormons. Rockwell was right-hand man to Joseph Smith, and the bodyguard of Brigham Young. He killed many people. The Mormon Church has its beginnings in extreme violence. Men, women, and children were intentionally murdered. Have you read the book “Massacre at Mountain Meadows” by William Wise?

@@GMoney-B you need to do your research, you clearly don't know your religion. Ever hear about the mountain meadows massacre? The Mormon church, regardless of the sect, is a cult. Joseph Smith was an evil man and a false prophet.

@@srso4660 Not even talking about joseph smith in my comment. So you're saying that because of, let's say a dozen people who went all lafferty on the world, that that makes all members violent? That's what I was trying to say. You can't judge a massive group of people only by the actions of a few. Otherwise let's pull up some dirt on every other religion and call them a cult because some like to put demographics in neat little boxes to make them feel better or more of an authority on a subject.

@@GMoney-B Hahahha very well said. I find it laughable that people will take one story or even a dozen stories and try to say that the church invites violence through its teachings or other bs like that hahaha like they’re really reaching so hard to try and make it sound like a cult

Fundamentalism isn't "driving the faith," since they have no influence on LDS church doctrine. Further, what can "Mormons" do about fundamentalists living next to them? Drive them out of their homes? Out of the state?

@@briddle1978 I think Mormons are no different than fundamentalists.Fundamentalists just stand out and regular Mormons hide their fundamentalism in the temple and in their church meetings.

I have been reading bs biased judgement all and completely inaccurate comments regarding mainstream lds religion on a number of videos about the show. Finally a fact that someone is actually getting right! Kudos!

@Kenneth D.: "by at least 100 years." I like that: "What's their truth speed?" (i.e., how long do they lie?) "Oh, about a hundred years." :)

So this show is based on true events?

@@beboystyle620 Yes!

@@beboystyle620 absolutely yes!

The Temple endowment was changed around 1991, so what you see in the series is what the endowment ceremony and initiation were like from the 1930s and until 1991. So, it’s not your current ceremony, so you shouldn’t be bothered by it. Before 1991, every person getting married or endowed was required to make the gestures of disemboweling themselves and also of slitting their own throats. This is the violence that leads to murder, which is the very murder The Book of Mormon promotes. So, as long as the Church promotes the Book of Mormon as the Word of God then we have a problem.

​@@KidsandKittens217 Dude, these two guys were psychopaths, completely devoid of remorse when questioned for years after. Nephi as depicted in the BOM felt tremendous question and remorse/hesitation. You can't say it leads to murder when this is a one of instance with the lafferty brothers with the (disembroiling gesture specifically). I am questioning a lot of things about the church as well the last few years, but as a member my entire life in it's current form. The church teaches nothing of violence, murder or anything like that like so many people try to still say about current church teachings or members/leaders. While it sounds exciting to some with conspiracies behind closed doors and all that, nothing at least in current day is taught of that nature, at least now. What I'm worried about from discussion is that of harmful or judgmental discussion towards current leaders and members especially from this show, is that most people are just good people trying to do their best. By all means go after church history and the massive inconsistencies(which I am wanting to look into and know for myself), but just treat current members and their current beliefs with respect. It means a lot to them(current teachings) even if it doesn't to you. I agree with everything else being talked about though that people should know for themselves and not just blindly follow.

What about the, on average, 20 murders in Chicago that occur every weekend? You never give that issue a second look, but when some rando you don't know goes crazy (literally in the medical sense) in the name of a religion you are unfamiliar with, you seem to judge members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints as lumped in with their ilk. That kind of selective attention is destructive to good people's lives.

@@briddle1978 I do not accept the premise that I am not bothered by the carnage that is happening in Chicago or even, say Texas, or the other states that have higher murder rates than the atrocious numbers in Chicago. Your premise is faulty. I care about all of it. Don’t you?

Hi, I'm in New Zealand and watched it on Disney plus.

I was 21 when I walked away. How old were you?

Lol. Thank you for being the first comment on this biased chicks video that isn’t complete bs. EDIT: and that is also hilarious.

To be fair, Jeb Pyre is only a fictional invention for dramatic purposes. He's almost too good and pure to be real. So kind of like Andrew Garfield. lol

@@presentfuture7563 True. Andrew Garfield is just too good and pure for this world. Lol. Minus his streaking in that one social media movie(not the social network). Lol.

@@GMoney-B Mainstream? He can play a bad boy when need be (see also Under The Silver Lake) but he's 99% cinnamon

@@presentfuture7563lol

ummm no. They stole the endowment from masonry anyway. It would be difficult to claim rights on a stolen ritual.?

@@terrillmel You are right, Joseph Smith stole a lot of stuff from the Free masons.

sue on what grounds? we have a first amendment in the USA. You can never be sued for telling the truth

@@grantbeck9228 I wish there were main stream movies that showed what really happens and what people wear at Sealing marriage ceremonies in the Temple.

Same, I learned of the stone hat thing three years ago at 59 years old. Pretending to slit my throat, heart, and bowels at age 19 was strange, rites of passage were exciting to me, but there were so many strange parts that kept me from really wanting to return very much. And can we just admit, the endowment is about as boring as it gets. A sleeper, literally, all those dead people that didn’t experience the entire endowment because I fell asleep over and over. Darn

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supposedly the Joseph Morris to George Williams is the true prophetic line of the church but this is all past now and the Saints of the most high stopped meeting on August 9th 1969. There is a little woodem Temple that they built for the return of Jesus (as High Priest) visible from I-90 near Deer Lodge, and on that day that's when Dr.. Jensen entered the old Montana prison and had a Angelic visitation according to prophecy!! Name! Date! Address and Missions!! 🤩🤩🎺🎺🌴🌹

@Erin Thomas Yes, you are correct. I call it the Iron Curtain over their minds. Have you read the book "The True Believer"? It's by Eric Hoffer. It's a classic. Explains the reason these brainwashed people behave like they do and have to attack people who try to wake them up.

Too bad the book has such a bias. There's probably a better source for a true crime story than what they used.

@@vfxtutswithdan1893 Would you commit murder if the leader of the Church told you to do it? Be honest. You know, as well as I do, what the Church teaches. The Church has always taught that you must obey even if it is wrong. When the Book of Mormon tells us the man Nephi was blessed by God for committing murder by murdering the man Laban and deceiving his household and stealing his property, then we know that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints tells its followers that murder is okay when it is ordered by God. This series is showing what that thinking leads to. Can't you see that?

Lol

@Divided Wefall: Kay Burningham's "American Fraud" might be of interest :)

It’s uneven, but has brilliant, tense, dramatic moments. Give it your full attention and it will surprise you.

Ask them what the difference is besides polygamy.

Except they were both excommunicated before the murders were committed. They are crazy murderers. What they did doesn't reflect at all what Mormons are about or what they believe.I reject the bias in the book that this series is based on. They actually planned other murders of faithful Mormons they felt had wronged them. The Laffertys were bad people and had a violent home life growing up. People should go back to personal responsibility. Blaming a religion for acts like this is weak.

@@vfxtutswithdan1893 But wait! The Book of Mormon teaches Murder is good if God tells you to do it. Nephi said God told him to murder Laban and God blessed him for committing the murder and robbery. God elevated Nephi to status as Prophet and Leader for committing murder. Murder is glorified, as is the murderer, in The Book of Mormon. This is Fundamental to the LDS faith, which is the faith the Laffertys adhered to.

@@vfxtutswithdan1893 don’t waste time trying to talk sense into these angry biased people. For one explanation they will dream up another five questions and accusations of things that are not the case of being relevant or true.

@@KidsandKittens217 did you even read VFX tuts with Dan? They broke away from the church. Not only that but the fundamentalist group they belonged to didn’t even want them and kicked them out when they started proposing that he was now the leader of that FLDS group and wanting to murder people. Dude was crazy and that doesn’t mean that he was following the instruction/teachings of the ACTUAL lds church, if he was and he was not a psychopath, these murders would not have happened.

How is that interview disturbing? I watched it and it seemed completely chill and reasonable. Or were you saying the interactions between the the murderer and the officer was disturbing?

@@GMoney-B Sorry, I didn't make it clear. I was talking about the guys who actually committed the murders , they are disturbing. The interview was interesting.

@@kaylaly7811 Gotchya. Same here.

Well it was made primarily for entertainment so inaccuracies are to be expected. I will say that a friend of mine who grew up in Utah in the 70’s and 80’s says that the way they talk is how she remembers it.

@@morganfreeman6957 writes: “it was made primarily for entertainment so inaccuracies are to be expected.” Which makes it cringy for many of us to watch. Krakauer’s book was not written primarily for entertainment, but rather to document what happened in 1984 Utah and the with Laffertys unlike the series based on the book, I guess. It’s still cringy for a former Mormon, BYU grad, RM with pioneer heritage to watch “the liberties” that were taken for the sake of “entertainment.” If it was for entertainment sake that they series creators made Utah County Mormons seems like Lancaster County Amish, they failed IMO.

Yah, it was appalling to symbolically enact slitting my own throat or disemboweling myself if I ever revealed the contents of the Temple ceremony to an outsider. Gross. The only thing stopping me from running out was that I’d been brought there and was sitting with my parents, and all the church leaders I’d grown up respecting and trusting. I thought to myself, “Okay, mom and dad are here, the Bishop and his wife are here, there’s my young women’s counselor, etc., and if they think this is okay, I guess I’ll stick it out and see.” Talk about coercive - waiting until you’re inside and the ceremony has begun and your support group is there and invested in your participation AND THEN tell you that you can leave if you don’t want to proceed BEFORE you know what you’re getting yourself into.