Understanding Mesopotamian Civilization. 

"Assyria were the nazis of the ancient world" **Dies by an alliance of 3 states ganging up on it**

When the world needed him the most, he returned.

You make a really good point of how old the ancient civilizations are and a lot of the time this isn’t really emphasized. Nowadays, many people think events like the American Civil war are old. However, the time gap between that and WWII is nearly the same as WWII to us today. These modern events are much more clustered together than these ancient civilizations and events that happened thousands of years apart.

You commented early in the video about how the fear-based religions resemble something you’d expect from a victim of severe child abuse. That reminds me of some material I read from scholars studying what they called psychohistory. Their fundamental premise is that you can trace how civilization has developed based on the history of childhood. I think you might enjoy their discussions.

One very interesting thing about Summer is the fact they wrote the history of their own destruction. As the cities were conquered one by one they wrote a cry song for each city and her people. Also the way how Summer was discovered is incredible. The historians pulled Sherlock Holmes on that one.

Despite being an alternate history channel, I like how you talk about real history. You approach topics in a different way to most mainstream RU-vidrs.

There are a few non-trival mistakes/misconceptions here. -There was no major 'Sumerian' revolt against Assyrian Empire at any period. The old and middle iterations never controlled southern Mesopotamia, and by the era of the Neo-Assyrian Empire, Sumerian had been extinct as a (living) language or polity *for nearly 1000 years*. -The Assyrian homeland *did* have relatively favourable geography, at least compared to the south, being located on the Jazirah steppe, where dependence on irrigation for farming was less absolute, gradating to defensible foothills and uplands. -Assyria was never conquered by Syrian (Aramaen) peoples at any point, though they did later grow to a demographic majority in the original Assyrian homeland, but this happened due to the Assyrian Empire's own policy of mass-deportations, and the increasing adoption of the Aramaic language (only distantly related to native Assyrian dialect of Akkadian) due to its far superior writing system. -The Mitanni have *not* been proven to be an Indo-European people, their language Hurrian is still considered an isolate due to lack of data. -Not really a mistake, but you could have mentioned the Neo-Babylonian Empire itself was ruled by an elite of foreign descent, the Chaldeans (we only know they came from the Zagros moutains, so they could have been IE, but nobody knows). -Mesopotamian society withering away *without a fight* under the Achaemenids is rather an oversimplification.. there were several Babylonian revolts against the Persians, the last one being a contemporary of Alexander the Great... more than 2 centuries after Cyrus conquered the region. It could* be argued that Mesopotamian culture was essentially Syriac/Phoenician by this time, but that's another topic. -The 'least innovative of all major civilisations'? Granted, it's certainly near the bottom-tier, but I'd argue that Egyptian Civilisation was considerably more static and conservative, the evidence leaves practically no close competitor for this 'prize'. -The banking system of Mesopotamian religion was actually considerably enlightened, all debts were periodically wiped clean by royal/priestly decree in regular intervals, to prevent the destruction of the independent landed-peasant class, who formed the core of Sumerian, early Babylonian and Neo-Assyrian armies. I'd recommend reading Michael Hudson's "Privatization in the Ancient Near East and Classical World" for an introduction to this topic.

Take into account that area of the world during that time was not vast deserts, it was vast plains.

You have tremendous skill minimizing "nuance loss" when presenting complex ideas. Thanks for doing the work! Much appreciated.

Find someone who loves you as much as Whatifalthist hates lil pump

Most excellent reference to the Greeks camping in the ruins of Nineveh in Xenophon’s Anabasis, the story of ten thousand Greek mercenaries that found themselves on the wrong side of a civil war and their long journey back home against all odds. I too was entirely blown away by that story and highly recommend Anabasis for anyone looking for an incredible read that is becoming increasingly obscure.

I'm a simple man, I see a new whatifalthist video and I press like, now I'll watch the video.

I’m upset and I can’t sleep, but here you are to cheer me up. By the way, you have inspired my senior thesis. I’d love to speak with you about it if you would be willing.

Me: procrastinating at 2 am Whatifalthist: gotchu fam

10:50 “Mesopotamian society had no conception of history...” 12:30 “[The priests] were often the biggest land owners, as well as being the historians...”

Sorry but the ancient Mesopotamians were the first to do so many things, I cannot understand how you could call them "uncreative". They invented many of the things that would be perfected by the ancient Phoenicians, Egyptians, Persian/Medes, Greeks, etc. "And while copper counts among the few metals that can be used (to some degree) in its natural form, as opposed to extraction from ore, its full-scale usage in a fabricated form was probably kick-started by the Sumerians, around 5,000 years ago." "However archaeological evidence of the world’s first free spinning wheel actually pertains to the potter’s variety, with the oldest surviving specimen being found in the southern Mesopotamian city of Ur, dating from circa 3100 BC." "But while the spoken language was probably in use by 35,000 BC, its fully developed written form (as opposed to proto-writing) only made the ‘debut’ during the latter part of the 4th millennium BC (circa 3500-3100 BC) in Sumer, southern Mesopotamia. This form of early cursive writing is known as the cuneiform" "Pertaining to one of the major Mesopotamian inventions - cursive writing, the development of literature was a direct effect of written language, an achievement generally attributed to the Sumerians circa 3400 BC. And while these ‘written’ cuneiform texts, inscribed on clay tablets and reliefs, started out as recording devices for administrative purposes, over time Sumerians also copied literature pieces that presented tales, myths, and essays." "Simply put, the ancient Mesopotamian artifact is the world’s oldest known payslip that rather hints at how the hierarchical system of workers and employers existed even five millenniums ago - and they were connected by the exchange of beer (as payment)." "Quite intriguingly, the first known description of urban planning was found in the Epic of Gilgamesh (which alludes to this scope being one of the Mesopotamian inventions)" "The oldest known archaeological evidence of a board game comes from 49 small carved painted stones that were discovered inside a burial mound at Başur Höyük, in southeast Turkey (traditionally, the northern extent of Mesopotamia), dated from circa 5000 BC." "So we must attribute the honor of inventing soap to their culturally-linked brethren - the Sumerians, who held sway over Mesopotamia for most of 3rd millennium BC (which makes soap one of the incredible Mesopotamian inventions)." "cartography as a scientific pursuit with accurate surveying techniques, was developed in Mesopotamia, which hints at it being one of the Mesopotamian inventions. One example would pertain to the Nuzi map, dated from circa 2360-2180 BC " " In any case, both of these sets of laws are Sumerian in origin, thus counting as one of the major Mesopotamian inventions. Moreover, many scholars have also put forth their views regarding an even older law code encompassing the legal reforms of Urukagina, the king of city-state Lagash in Mesopotamia, from circa 24th century BC" "One pertinent example comes from the Tablet 63 of the renowned Enūma Anu Enlil texts (compiled during 1595-1157 BC), also known as the Venus tablet of Ammi-saduqa, which tabulates the first and last visible risings of Venus over a period of about 21 years." "In fact, ancient Sumerians are known to have devised the earliest forms of written mathematics, including the system of metrology (dating from 3000 BC) and multiplication tables (dating from 2500 BC) - thus alluding to the scope of Mesopotamian inventions in this vast field. "

As a Chaldean this is vary interesting to learn about my roots I know that most Chaldeans including me are now catholic and can still speak Aramaic

Man, I love your videos. I have mild ASD and the way you edit and narrate your videos are so conducive to my sensibilities, it’s almost like I made them myself!!!!

While archery always existed, the immense contributing factor to the rise of the last Babylonian empire is the mega ass use of archery. While it has been used, the Babylonians used it basically on a industrial level scale. Which had a immense advantage to the javelin throwers and sling tossers, Especially some of the arrows that had iron tips. Even if it didn't kill a soldier it help the Babylonians by injuries which soldiers might die days later of injuries. It's possible some of those archers are Arab mercenaries giving the Babylonians said manpower source for archers.

I wish Spengler and Toynbee had more knowledge of Mesopotamian culture when they wrote their books. Unfortunately, there was little by way of written and archeological record at the time they wrote their respective studies. Mesopotamia is, perhaps, the high culture I find to be the most alluring from a knowledge point of view.

15:48 An interesting summary. I've heard the hypothesis that gunpowder making castles obsolete did a great deal to unify Europe, turning it from hundreds of small fiefdoms into a few large empires. Always been sympathetic to that idea and here you take it a lot further. Oddly, it makes me think of the pro-gun people in the US, insisting that by disarming the populace the state will inevitably become more authoritarian and people will lose their freedoms. Maybe they have a point? Also makes me wonder for the future. If wars could be fought mostly by robots/drone (presumably manufactured and controlled by large central governments) with little need for human labor then that could tilt the balance back in favor of a more stratified, authoritarian society?

History channels like fall of civilization and Oversimplified are really good because of their presentation style in storytelling or animation. In my opinion you fit in the list of the best history RU-vidrs because of the higher level of questions you ask yourself and the rich amount of greatly unknown but important historical facts. Keep on going man!

What I find most interesting is that advanced ancient civilizations such as Mesopotamia are backward war-ridden regions today while cannibalistic paint-wearing savages became modern Britain. I wonder what this means for America in the future...

Those palaces and clothing are so cool, I wish there was more Mesopotamia inspired art

As far as i know Egypt survived the bronze age colaps, they never recovered fully or was considered a great ever again but they did survive. Also they hired and relocated some of the groups of people they fought in the last battle vs the sea people. Shortly after they lost most of their territory, only holding on to the heathland around the nile and the delta area. But saying they didnt survive the colaps is plain wrong.

Ancient - medieval - modern scheme is bunk. History is instead the timeless tale of the rise and fall of high cultures, each which have their own lifespans.

You inspired me to start a historical RU-vid channel, thanks!

Since you mentioned time perception, you should’ve mentioned how old Mesopotamian Sumer was even compared to other ancient civilizations. It’s the oldest of all the world’s cradles of civilizations, at least 4000 BC. Egypt, India (Harappan), & Peru (Caral) developed urban societies around 500-700 years later, or 3500-3200 BC. The first in China (Erlitou), Mexico (Olmec), & Greece (Mycenaean) around two thousand years after Sumer, around 2000 BC. Absolutely incredible when you realize the vast majority of the world did live in these types of complex societies until the last few hundred years.

yes ancient world is so old. the events of early civillization and bronze/iron age were history to the Greeks. Crazy that Greeks stumbled upon nineveh 200 years after fall of assyrian empire.

Its such a shame that there's so little record of the time between the end of the ice age and the birth of large cities. This was a time of great transition that hugely interests me, but we don't know much about what happened. I imagine that there are so many epic tales that we just don't know about because we didn't have writing.

It is theorized that the garden of eden was where the Persian gulf is now. But over time the sea levels rose and flooded it over.

As a history nerd I really appretiate your videos. You have this very nuanced big picture approach about how events are interconnected and how history mostly falls into reoccurring patterns.

"Assyrians were wiped from the face of the Earth" *Me, an Assyrian* : "lol ok."

Videos are getting better and better each time. How great can you be?

Wow, This is my favorite history channel so far.

I studied (almost completed) Assyriology (studies of corpus written in cuneiform etc) there are some small annoying mistakes (correct me if I didn't get something correctly in your video) like: centralization was possible due to the wartime usage of horses - horses were used specially for warring purposes mainly starting from the iron age by Assyrians, introduced by the Medes. Earlier Ancient Mesopotamian militaries didn't ride horses, there are letters about this fact even during the Old Babylonian period (in the Mari letters). The image of the Standard of Ur you showed with nice litte bald Sumerians, on the image there are onagers, they are slow and can't be easily maneuvered like horses. I like to think of centralization is Ancient Mesopotaima like a wave-pattern. There were centralized periods and "chaos" periods with competing city-states, and again from the beginning, you told something similar in the video. Horses and chariots were still used during the Neo-Assyrian period while new siege engines were introduced. The dean of my University published a book about the Neo-Assyrian military, I can send the title if you are interested. One of the reasons the the (1st) Babylonian empire fell was due to the Hittites (as an empire) overthrowing Babylon. Then the Kassite people came, who had completly different language and culture, they ruled Southern Mesopotamia almost till the iron age, but they were assimilated to the Mesopotamian culture well. One of the Mesopotamian civilization's main strengh was really to assimilate almost any foreign, migrating, moving etc tribes or peoples to their culture. And the culture only slightly changed during the course of ca. 3000 (or so) years. But you showed me a new point and I like that. You made the conclusion that Mesopotamia had no intellectual golden age (did I get right?) and you might be right. This culture was extremly conservative in many ways, maybe it's one of the reasons the culture didn't change much during the millenias and many aspects of it were adopted outside of Mesopotamia as well. One more important reason might be that Ancient Mesopotaima produced most of the grain in the surrounding area, so they had plenty of food. So why didn't they have an intellectual period? You said in Egypt they didn't have such era either, I really don't know. But you might get the point that whatever was art or science in Ancient Mesopotamia, it was of the state, and it served political purposes. It maybe always had. All other information I didn't mention are mostly correct! Great work. And I love your videos.

Been waiting for a new vid for a month and I get it at midnight before I have to work at 5AM. Figures😂 thanks for your amazing content!

I only discovered you last week, saw you hadn’t made a video recently. Good to see you back your my new favourite RU-vidr these are the best kind of videos I love them so much

The Prussians were brilliant at diplomacy until Wilhelm II took over (and Bismarck was gone). They were still pretty good at it but they failed to protect themselves enough against a Franco-Russian alliance. All the rest is projection in your behalf.

I would be extremely interested if you put out some content about Ancient Egypt. A coherent civilization which went through several cycles of decline and rebirth to be snuffed out by the Greeks, surviving as a sort of brand. As in, if you dressed up like Hammurabi at a halloween party no one would recognize you, but if you dressed up like Cleopatra (not the historic Cleopatra, who would have been dressed as a Greek, but the Cleopatra of myth, of wigs and eyeliner), people would get it immediately. When I first read Exodus, I thought the claim was, "we were SLAVES in Egypt!" After reading a bit about the glamor and charisma of Egypt in the ancient world, I started to think that the message was "We were slaves in EGYPT!" As in, the France of its day, something an upstart tribe of religious rabble-rousers would want to affiliate with. One thing that always perturbed me is how cuneiform and hieroglyphic literature didn't survive Hellenism and the Roman period. How is it that the capital of Greek civilization for several centuries was Alexandria, but there was only marginal knowledge of the land where this city was founded? I had originally attributed it to some kind of cultural chauvanism or cultural genocide. However, what you suggest is something a bit more subtle. That the high cultures of Egypt and Mesopotamia had become so disconnected from the post-Axial age mindset of the times that they just had no appeal for people. Indeed, one of the things I find fascinating about Egyptian hieroglyphics is how people thought of them as sort of this mystical thought-language, disconnected from human language. When they were deciphered, it turns out that no, they displayed the behavior of any written language. However, this idea came from late Egypt. Hieroglyphics had become very obscurantist and pun-ish and implicatory. People were losing touch with the elite, and vice-versa.

I always wondered what a fear based modern society would look like. Unless someone can enlighten me this is my best reference now!

its a good day when Whatifalthist posts

cudowny odcinek bratku dziekuje bardzo 😊

Great work! Next I would like to see a video about the Scythian peoples and their history since there isn't that much information around about them. Could you make a video about the Scythian people? Would be appreciated! 😇

Dan Carlin splits history up into the modern world, the old world (medieval), the very old world (Greece/Persia to Rome), and the very, very old world (basically, the Bronze Age from Egypt to the fall of Assyria). Me rambling just because I want to (don’t read if easily bored): Good history splits are: Modern (age of discovery 1492 to now), medieval (476-1492), antiquity (615 BCE-476), Bronze/Iron Ages (615-3100 BCE), Neolithic/Agricultural Age (3100-10,000 BCE), Stone Age (10,000+). Stone Age breaks down into Last Ice Age/Homo Sapien Age (30,000-10,000 BCE when modern humans became the only human species), the Great Migration Age (30,000-60,000 when humans left Africa and migrated to all parts of Afro-Eurasia), and the African Period (250,000-60,000 when modern humans were all in Africa and were developing still). Neolithic Age kind of has a first half and second half, with the split around 5-6,000 BCE with the domestication of horses and the first conflicts between horse nomads and farmers aka the rise of the Indo Europeans; it was also around this time that agriculture was introduced to Europe). Antiquity can be divided into Early (Persians/Greeks to Alexander the Great), High (Hellenization of Middle East to fall of Roman Republic), and Late (Roman Empire 27 BCE to Rome’s fall in 476). Middle Ages are usually divided into Early (Dark), High, and Late also. Early/Dark Middle Ages from 476 to about 1000 or 1066. High Middle Ages from 1000 to about 1250 when the crusades and mongols were finishing up. Late Middle Ages from about 1250 to 1492. Modern Age can likewise be split into Early (1492-1776, the age of revolutions), High/Age of Industrialization (1776-1914, rise of nation states and industrialization), and Contemporary (modern history, from WWI 1914 to today, with further splits for World War Era 1914-1948, Post/Cold War 1948-1989, and modern history from 1989 to today, Age of Information).

in Arabic we say "women are more turbulent than the tigris" now I understand why.

Egypt also survived the Bronze Age collapse and iron was used by the Hittites before Assyria.

You are the best! Cant wait for more episodes!

If y'all want to learn more about the ancient civilizations discussed here. I reccomend you look up Epimetheus. He's made some very informative and enjoyable videos on this region and its history.

This is such a great summary on Mesopotamian civilizations, the first place in the world to develop civilization. It was also a sad story of how the cradle of civilization stagnated for so long to the point where it no longer exists, unlike China or India. How many people here are Babylonian, Kassite, or Sumerian? It should be noted that Assyrians still exist today, but they are now Aramaic-speaking and Christian. You also nailed the ending with Americans framing the Iraq war as a "war for civilization in the birthplace of civilization". Lastly, please cite your sources Whatifalthist.

You said that Mesopotamian civilization had no sense of history, but I remember listening to Dan Carlin’s King of Kings series and he talks about how there was a Babylonian king who did archaeological digs to find stuff from older dynasties. Granted this I think was in the last century or so of traditional Mesopotamian civilization, but still.

Excellent video, am looking forward for the next world civilizations' analysis to come!

I hope you made more videos on pre-history and what we found thanks to ancient artifacts, genetics and proto-writing. I love how you explain things.

Another great video. Ancient history is amazing

So happy there's a new video. Keep it up!

Glad your back bro!!

23:30 I swear, I can just picture Dan Carlin saying this line. Your content reminds me of his so much that I listen and enjoy you both equally.

Not even school can stop me from spending 30 minutes watching a whatifalthist upload.

Wonderful video! The quality of this channel keeps improving. Well done.

So amusing that few hours i checked back on your channel to see did my feed miss the latest upload ? It didn't cause every video I have watched atleast 5 times ended up watching 1st two uploads. Thankyou

Dude 21:45-21:51 "60% of the soil was too salty to farm....sounds like a lot of Reddit threads to me" Wow that's Bane breaking Batman's back brutal. I haven't stopped geeking out yet, and I'm completely sober. Ouch!

4:05 we were on verge of greatness. We were this close

My favorite youtube channel. Keep it coming whatifalthist.

Wow. So much packed into 30 min. Great job

Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis and the rise of the sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of. And unto this, Conan, destined to wear the jeweled crown of Aquilonia upon a troubled brow. It is I, his chronicler, who alone can tell thee of his saga. Love the video tag line.

ISIS destroying Nineveh treasures is painful.

I love your videos its getting better and better every time its like a present from heaven when you upload :D

28:20 oh boy did i fricking love hearing this

Mesopotamia: Look Daddy! Look what I made! (Shows writing system) Nature gods: Did I catch you trying to invent a standard and legible system of communication? (*SMAK*) Mesopotamia: Daddy, I made you a present! (Steak dinner) Nature gods: Are you trying to appease me for something? HUH??? (*SMAK*)

0:35 Mandatory mention that this map is wrong, and Ur used to be a coastal city. People traveled down the river, along the sea, up the other river from Babylon to Susa.

probably the best video of yours I've seen after having watched you the last 4 or 5 years

Yesterday I was wondering "hey, I wonder when whatifalthist will post." AND HERE HE IS!

Hey I love your content, but please don’t let this be where you go away for over a month but then upload like 3 videos. Still my favorite RU-vidr!!

Have you done any research on Gobekli Tepe in Turkey? Neolithic site so large it must have necessitated a civilization to build it. Site has been carbon dated to 12,000 years ago.

I loved all the vintage illustrations. Very cool! 👍

Thanks for all the info on the Assyrians and the lesson of Time passing. Favorite RU-vidr by far

The two month drought is over, ALL HAIL THE BOAT

I think the Sassanian empire might be an interesting topic to cover because in many ways they were the first feudal state and I’m pretty sure they were also the first absolute monarchy.

Love this kind of video, you really show off your skills here.

Nicest promo, dude. A free month of knowledge and only 50 pesos a month! This is the first RU-vidr advertisement to hit the nail with me. Oh, and as always: awesome video.

The society of Ur, where 90% of the population lived in the metropolis of Ur itself, makes me think Mesopotamian civilisation is a good model for how civilisation would develop on a spaceship travelling for thousands of years to reach a distant planet as Earth nears the end of it's life, like in Hollywood sci-fi.

Finally something about my country 🇮🇶

This video got me points on my AP World Midterm and I’ve never been more thankful for watching a video that was thousands of years out of time zone instead of watching relevant curriculum. I just went blank during the midterm and thought about Mesopotamia, and started writing and it was beautiful.

Thanks for the video!

Finally, he has returned

24:19 Egypt didn't join the alliance to destroy Assyria. On the contrary, they were on the side of the Assyrians because they Egyptian government at the time were basically appointed by the Assyrians. There was even a battle (Carchemish, 605 BC) between the remnants of Assyria with Egypt against the Medo-Babylonians which the Assyrian side lost

Amazing video, such a pleasure to have in depth content like this; Keep it up !

bro thanks for the interesting videos, i learn a lot from them

“Mesopotamian society had no conception of history...” Anyone have any sources to support or explain this claim ?

Please, do the same for Egypt. Her civilisation is the symmetrical opposite of Mesopotamia.

I've been waiting for a new upload and it's 30 minutes, let's go!

BRO POST MORE!!! Love your content!!!

Fun fact : whatifalthist is hide the pain harold's illegitimate son.

What if mithridates was successful? What if Japan conquered korea in the 16th century?

I've never noticed the connection between agricultural revolution and genocide. This guy fr the goat of youtube. I hope this guy goes on to do great things...this guy truly feels like a world leader

Lol I follow no one else or any content similar to u yet you might be my favourite youtuber. Congrats on your success broski

I haven't watched the video yet, but I'm excited to hear your take on the Ancient Near East. It's my most favorite time period of history and geographic region to learn about, and I am fascinated by your opinions. Also, you posted on my birthday, so perfect timing!

I would like to clarify: we know so much about Babylon, because they kept records on Clay Tablets, which last forever. We do not know much about other place, because they kept records on papyrus, which only lasts a few hundred years. This is important, because there could have been a civilization that did great things 8,000 years ago, but it didn't make a mark on the world, or someone else destroyed all of it's marks, and we have no memory of it except in legends which are interpretable.

Great stuff man

YESSSSSS Whatifalthist video!!!!!