Valorant's Map Design NEEDS TO CHANGE! 

abyss looks like it wasn't designed for this game

Riot was not happy with the awful mid from icebox and pearl, and decided to create an even worse version with abyss

You can kill pearl b site but you can never kill the idea of pearl b site

riot saw vertigo and somehow made it worse

This looks like a "ranked" map. It makes attacking easier as there's no need for comms or anything. You just silently group up at the entrance of a site and giggle when someone falls of the map.

You should make a Valorant map tier list to show what maps do right/wrong.

i feel like abyss has played too much into its niche aspect, i feel like one of the design members went 'hmm what about a map where you can fall off' and then they just decided to make the maximum amount of areas where thats possible even if it doesnt improve the map in anyway

this shit is a tdm map

also the other thing is the paper thin walls which are becoming a common theme in maps along with post plant spams.

Pretty sure they laid off all their map designers. There’s no way people with a CS background would design a map like this. It’s literally a map to prove they’re not good at their job, they can’t think of creative ways to implement sites. Worst map yet, worse than Breeze or Icebox.

I don't know why but my two cents on this debauchery is that this massive of a flaw in abyss' design cannot be just a plain oversight. The more I think about it, the more intentional the design of the map appears to me. Knowing riot, they surely cannot be this naive and ignorant to design such an awful map and have ZERO purpose or reasoning behind it (prolly wishful thinking I know but still I believe). All the problems you've listed: mid providing little to no value, rotations that feel like walking on sage slows, exec-heavy and 5-stacking sites, playing stupid postplant, etc... those are arguably the recipe to an IRON-LOBBY RANKED game. So perhaps, they're pushing the boundaries of pro play for it to simulate lower ranked antics? I honestly don't know what they were smoking but one thing's for sure: there has to be a reason. Maybe they're trying to make barrier sentinels meta, or they're looking for a more chaotic and less strategic gameplay overall like where the defending team literally becomes the attacking team and floods main after the spike gets planted or whatever. Only time can tell.

Valorant has a really weird aversion from 3 lane maps. For some reason I feel like in their heads, they think that they're played out even though there are so many unexplored designs, and they provenly work. Four lane maps are cool but are notoriously hard to balance.

Abyss is wide. Which doesn't sound too different than it being simply big, but you can go into the enemies spawn so fast on this map. There's not a ton of multi-man flanking in higher levels of Valorant, but herding the attackers like this will probably become the norm on Abyss, especially to counter passive post plants. This is also a reason why attackers would want to show presence mid, because the defense can push it so quickly, sometimes even before the spike is down.

I actually like abyss but its not really suitable for anything other than unrated 😂 interesting but horrible for how the game actually plays

Going on a rant?... A Valo-rant? 😎

i like making valorant minimaps for a hobby and im pretty sure by now that its not that difficult making a map not have main pointing straight to 70% percent of a site, or even better just make main not have alot of 50/50s when being pushed from site

I think the problem comes from a mix of things, one of which being that defensive util has gotten nerfed pretty hard. There's not the same stopping power available that was present during the astra viper meta or a chamber with an insane get out of jail free card. Trying to hold onto a site against a hit is often times worse than just leaving and playing retake because you get util dumped and your util just isn't enough the majority of the time

balls

Bring back fracture so we can see active and interesting plays please

Its interesting for the "Post plant spam" i think would just be fixed if they made the plant site just...further in the site. Like it doesn't seem THAT crazy to think of you know...making the attack really have to work to get the optimal plant lol and like I think Abyss's mid is so interesting but the way the sites themselves are do have little reason to explore it (though I think the A side does warrant pushing it a bit more than B).

from those first 3 minutes of clips alone, wow, there's gonna be a lot of goofy deaths on this map lol

I think the biggest failure is too much experimentation with a map design. The first three maps( Bind, Split, Haven) all had a small twist. Most of these weren't game changing, so they worked. Riot likely assumed that larger twist could work, but they don't work. Lotus doesn't work as a three site map because B is a full site where Haven's b is more of a mid that you can plant. Riot just needs to drop a standard 4-sqaure map design. The main reason I don't like Abyss is because it is a map designed for one-trick ponies. the fact that you can launch people off the edge is only cool for the first week. Afterwards, it is an annoying play. The wingman parkour is only funny the first 5 times. larger twist could work, but it is a gamble official maps shouldn't take.

I remember when FNS and balla said that valo map need to be bigger since there so much util dump I wonder how they think about it now

Yeah a match 5 fall deaths lol

They should allow the community to design maps with the best one getting added every year or something

Do you feel like the issue might be partially a problem with the agent meta and not just the maps themselves? As you said, split used to be a map that wasn’t played in this problematic way and now it is. The map itself didn’t change that much. Maybe it’s partially a shift in mentality or agent power?

With the mid issue, i think a lot of the problem comes down to stopping/entry power. Split actually seems to have a well designed layout, narrow chokes at both sites that (theoretically) should be able to be stalled efficiently by defenders with utility in time for defenders to rotate to. I don’t see another way of making the site harder to entry other than adding more angles to clear (which clearly isn’t a good solution given icebox and now abyss reputation) Mid offers a great solution for both sites granting angles capable of clearing lots of angles on site which are much harder to clear from main. The problem is (as GenG showed) even the most coordinated high level players cannot stop a well timed well executed main push, even with narrow chokes and multiple angle elevations. It is likely the best solution is to make entries harder or defending easier, either by slightly nerfing movement/flash utility or buffing molly/decay stalling power. That being said, either of these changes would be catastrophic in ranked where coordinated executes are basically non existent for 95% of the player base. The change would heavily favour defenders in basically every rank of the game. This is why having lots of gameplay mechanics and different utility is an absolute nightmare to balance for any fps game. Balancing the ranked and competitive sides of the game is near impossible. With that being said, it doesn’t change the fact that pretty much every other mid other than split and havens is designed awfully. Even ascents mid is now losing its relevancy as execs become better. It feels like valorant is slowly moving into a heavy game of just execs and retakes at the higher level, where defenders are probably less favoured to win rounds on almost every map. The solution might even lie in developing offensive and defensive specific utility for each agent in order to balance retaking and executing in a more dynamic way. Long story short, i don’t believe it is a valid solution to just ‘make a better map’ every valorant map is slowly being taken apart in front of our eyes with clear cut meta comps and strategies. more dynamics in utility and agents is also needed to balance

its on every map no matter how big or small. You should sunset as an example and you can even do this on split if you plant the bomb right, tbh I think you can do it on every map. tbh its giving when gekko came out and everyone was saying gekko is a bad design and breaks the game cause wingman can plant bomb

It's just logical thinking, in a competitive match this isn't the way to go. But just playing with casuals and to have fun, this map isn't to bad

the biggest thing i don't like about abyss is that it's too big

I'm happy for Abyss's existence. Can't wait for pro play.

Maybe the devs should have stakes when they're testing new maps. Like they actually compete for money or something. Maybe that would flush out some of the broken stuff more.

the funniest part to me is the fact that there are objects near default that allow for invisible Nanoswarms like the map doesn't scream "sage wall, sage plant, spam spike, win" paired with the fact that you can wallbang default with med pen from nest for some reason (?)

I swear I saw a ghastly face press against the window behind you.

The counter to the sit back and spam post-plant is multi-person flanks, so you pinch on the area they are spamming from. This is easy to do on sunset, lotus, and abyss, but very difficult on pearl. Mid is useful on this map for the defenders to push up and flank. If the attackers plant A, the b defenders use mid to wrap around. I think that they made mid intentionally hard to push to encourage defenders to take the space.

I've said it before this map came out, and I know it hurts some lower elos who don't want to communicate verbally, but pings need to be turned off the second a plant goes down. Would eliminate so many spams (would still happen but would take more thought under pressure)

It's funny when you start comparing how easy it is to enter a bombsite in the last 2 new maps against the old maps. In the new maps you mostly have choke points that lead immediately to the plant area while in ascent for example you have to pass the main choke and go through a few more chokes and then you get to the plant area (B)...or you can plant on A but you have little to no space for spamming

about the issue with sunset b post plant, would making the box in main wall bangable and the corner shorter fix it? i feel like that's a good way to funnel the attackers to the other side, which would make the spam post plant difficult

Yeah, this is probably my biggest complaint with valorant map design, mid barely ever matters. Like of all the maps theres like 3 where playing mid is actually a good strategy most of the time. Bind: No mid Split: sort of, mid to a is mostly a meme though. You can technically put pressure on a via mid, but youre usually not gonna actually execute an a split. B is fine, but not good, and is usually more trouble than its worth Haven: c split is fine, but otherwise your dont really care about taking mid, which is a glorified b main anyway Ascent: one of the only maps where mid really actually matters. Defenders need mid control so attackeds xant just solit the map, and attackers need it so that defenders font have fast rotates/flanks. Icebox: Bad, a split doesnt exist and b split is way more tesources than jts worth, especially after the changes (i think i have the 2 sites correct) Pearl: I like this one, an a-split is actually viable, and lurking through mid to b is actually threatening, not to mention thay retakes though mid are generally easier than mains (since theyre so long) Fracture: no mid Sunset: A split as you said doesnt exist and b split is like barely worth it unless they have like double sentinel on b or something Lotus: no mid Breeze: Taking b smthrough mid is literally never worth it, the b split is through elbow, barring getting shot in the back from a connector, the rest of mid barely matters in terms of b site. A split is technically viable, but its generally better to split through tube if anything, and even that often feels like a gimmick.

Funny you mention harbor for needing big maps, because maybe I'm just bad at harbor but B (I think, the one with the cliff jump) feels like it forgot harbor exists when designed. The wall can't reach anywhere useful from anywhere safe, so you have to push up without your (main) wall just to be able to set it up

Somehow someway a worse old Vertigo

RANTMV LES GO

You can actually spam the default plant on B all the way from behind the spawn barriers

Abyss needs a TP/zipline

I don't know why riot still employs "SalGarozzo - Volcano" to be the map layout designer. his layout design is very mediocre. Without FMPONE he can't create a de_cache. All he does is create square objects and combine them one by one into a map layout.

The fact that you can plant on the bridge is crazy

thinking man loves man valorant

The easy fix for sunset is to limit the plant area to backsite I suppose. With abyss, I think it’s to give defenders more area to work with on one site, and a harder to defend post plant site for the other. That way there’s always a balance between taking an easier plant that leads to a less odd of conversion or needing to outplay the defense while attacking for a significantly better post plant.

4:30 luckily, this postplant spam meta is really easy to fix, just make the walls unbangable

id love to see a comparison of valorant maps with maps from other tac shooters like cs and what they could learn from them

The flank out of mid is really really quick for the defenders. Yeah the attackers won’t really use mid but the defender’s definitely will. I don’t think Plant and spam is as viable a strat as you think it will be.

yeah i get that last premier my team found out its way easier to just go a, do the plant on gen white sage wall and just play with shock dart and kj/viper molly

There are certain agents that we don’t see used very often that will counter the post plant spam Harbor, Sage, and Astra will be very popular agents post plant spam, with harbor cove, sage wall, and Astra ultimate. Other agents like Sova, Gekko, Viper, Killjoy, and other agents with mollies could also be viable for plant denial, but I doubt thay would work as icebox is a smaller map and the post plant denial utility can come a lot faster in icebox than abyss.

This problem was persistent even in the dark ages of valorant, just look at Haven 100T vs Gambit (2021) where Steel found a cheeky wallbang spot in A sewer to spam the spike on B.

I feel like deadlock's gonna get play with the insane post plant stuns that are hidden behind walls, under the map, etc too lol

TMVs cam being mirrored out of nowhere caught me mega off guard wtf

They took away split to add another icebox but bigger into the comp pool

Just feels like riot goes: “ooga booga add a niche” when designing new maps.

I've played this game since release, and never once has there been a map that doesn't get bitched out. The only map that i haven't seen that many people bitching about is ascent.

1:16 Yoo thats me!

Abyss B site is literally Pearl B site but more broken. A main is like a rehashed version of Breeze A main.

I think they should make the walls in B window high pen

I genuinely just want to see what happens when you give the valoramt engine a csgo map. Just give us dust 2 or mirage or smthn.

my biggest problem with the map is how anti yoru it feels. you can still cut some space with him safely onto sites playing off teammate util but I only found 2 or 3 tp lineups that could be decent. mid catwalk stairs to b tower, b heaven(outside tower) to b lobby which will almost certainly be heard from b main and nest where people will be playing after planting, and b main to outer b site. no spawn tps, rotate tps get cut off halfway or even sooner than that. and you can't even wait in defender spawn to send a tp right before round start to cut more space in your rotate because if you do that you start the round too far back. sending a tp any sooner just cuts into your window for rotating on defense. too many bad angles for sending tps and too many objects in the way. not to mention the potential for tps to fall off. L yoru map

Maps solved like this are related to a thing in league where teams will just go for late game scaling champs because early game champs can be pretty much countered by playing safe not allowing the early game comp to snowball. Obviously fixing this issue is a bit easier than valorant due to the deep champ pool in league although power creep is slowly ruining league (Ksante, aphelion, zeri, gwen at one point) and the champ diversity in pro play is slowly thinning.

get FMPone on the case. Really dumb that Riot doesn't contract the better CS map makers for suggestions.

finally people re waking up i called this since the first time they showed us the map

spike planted on a narrow brigde means gg. Not even spam is the issue. You tap defuse, enemy peeks, "you cant move. you cant jiggle." The only way to win there is to clear every corner before tap. which is losing for out of time lol. 1v1 or 1v2 clutch on defense means round lost guaranteed.

This could have been a really great map, they just needed shrink mid or even make it a small site like Lotus B

I quit Valorant about a year ago and map design was by far the biggest reason why. Riot is incapable of making a good mid on a map.

playing TC got me on a TMV video, I am happy abyss exists xD

I like abyss. Makes the game play differently

I don’t really agree with the « mid is useless in the meta » thinh. GenG really plays for mid depending on the prep (as we can see in pacific stage 2) and for Sunset it’s the same thing, many teams habe a strong mid control plan and other less it really depend on the comps / team preps

Smokes are intended to be the fix to spam through smoke meta but they dont really work. So instead of reworking all of the maps with this issue a possible change may be that shooting through smokes does 10% less dmg. This adds to the amount of luck needed to win from spam through smokes and maybe push teams away from this idea as they know its less reliable. But the issue with mid on most maps being useless needs to be addressed with map changes imo.

8:14 thats me over there :D

Clearly None of the map testers ever tried to play smokes OR sentinels on abyss before they released it

If only at some point we had post-plant meta in which people figured out how to deal with post-plant utility and spamming If only we had maps like Icebox where people have been able to sit back and spam bomb, so we know how to play around it If only we had ever had something that would have taught us that when you have a site that is difficult to retake you stack players on it and or maybe taught people that flanking in post plants is a good idea. Wait a minute?

Post Plant spam and shit is the most boring thing. Icebox A site, Pearl entirely, Sunset B site, Lotus C and A site, Haven C site, Bind both sites (cause lineups). Like, it's just such a huge issue. I understand teams can counter it by pushing them back, but if you burn the CT util as a good offense, it makes it nearly impossible to push them back. Mids are useless, I've always said this. And I think that's a HUGE problem. Splits should be possible on every map, and feasible to do for any given round. But they're not worth it.

I dont understand why they want to make such huge maps when they know how terrible the viewing experience is for spam post plants

Im gonna be honest when i saw this map dropped I haven’t even hopped on since.

Idk why val keeps adding maps where the plant site has direct sightlines through the choke. Yes good mids make this design less bad, but I feel like only the 3-site currently do it well enough for it to be acceptable There's these sights that have no safe angles to hold on-sight, and then a straight-shot from a cubby and its like they want spam

It's almost like they took the worst aspects of breeze and icebox and stuck them together

Ah yes, never play a game for fun, always play serious. It is illegal to have fun in online games nowadays... Unless you win that is! Also FPX vs TH, why the FUCK is harbor without his shield when they want to retake? On pistol it is easy to block off so many shots, but i guess they didn't try hard enough :)

Maybe it is time to increase sentinel stopping power, maybe

what worries me even more is there has been a positive reaction to every single one of their map releases. But it was so obvious here that this map is gonna have some insane issues that are gonna make playing it insufferable in ranked and pro play. Even on sunset it wasnt even like this, where everyone thought the b postplant would be normal. But here its so glaringly obvious what is the best postplant, its something weve never seen before. And I dont think its good.

Can’t wait for this spam meta to take over in haven b & c 💀

Last time i played abyss in SR And i am shocked that just to go from a site to another site i needed 30sec almost as far as i remember Also its look a battle royal map instead of competitive 5 v5 shooter game map

I love this map, the only design that is missing from a map is just very flat with lots and lots of cover, i really want a new map where there's close to no elevation but lots of cover so it pushes towards initiator usage

all im saying is i think someone at riot lied on their resume

my issue is, why would you introduce a new map like this in comp? let it be in swift and unrated or pro play, most of my matches on this have been surrenders or lop sided wins or losses. terrible map in general, it feels like there is a mid site missing. what happened to the the 2 level underground map? the falling off is just dumb.. lets give breech the ability to wipe a team with 1 button

abyss looks like a cs themed map made in tf2

It’s too bad too cause I really like the idea of adding drops and parkour to

Idk id the map is good for comp but its a ton of fun in swift

abyss mid would be super cool in a tdm map

Abyss is abysmal.

Do you think this is an inherent problem with valorant and the abilities everyone has? Or is it something that could be fixed with better maps?

abyss is by far my new faveorite map, its good IMO

I agree with every word

Neon Omen yoru and double senti is gonna be meta

Valorant should really just hire you at this point TMV 😂 to give them a perspective on things that they clearly dont have. because honestly as soon as I saw how large the map was as a Fade enjoyer I just sighed and said "oh boy another Sova map"