Was MODOK Ruined? (And Other Quantumania Questions) 

Another problem with Kang, is that every time he is introduced, it’s a new Kang. A different Kang, with a different look, and with a different motivation, just the same name. So if they keep killing him off in every movie, then it’s no different than marvel villain of the week. It’s just a whole nothing burfer

A Kang solo movie, showing him as an anti-hero before his turn to evil, would be an amazing way to introduce the next MCU big bad. Marvel just seem to be afraid to experiment and take risks, they’ve become complacent in their success. This is how franchises fall.

Kang's role in this movie should have been like Thanos' role in Guardians of the Galaxy, that way they could have also avoided making Kang look like a loser.

MODOK’s redemption was such a joke. -Helps oppress the quantum realm -Tries killing Cassie and Scott -Gets one pep talk from Cassie -Attacks his master who he has devoted his life to -dies

the idea of Darren thinking he can die a hero falls apart even further when you realize that Yellow Jacket was shrunk down to the quantum realm in the first Ant-Man movie; BEFORE he even became an avenger, meaning Darren wouldn't make that kind of connection to the avengers at all. Not unless he watches the movies too.

One of the huge issues I don't see people talking about is how much they dumbed down Hank. He went from brilliant scientist to goofy grandpa

Y'know whats even more of a missed opportunity with the "At least I died an Avenger" line? Had they made MODOK the main villain and kept Kang as the surprise final villain, they could've had a line or a flashback between Darren and Hope where Darren initially made the schematics for the Yellowjacket suit because he wanted to try and become a hero like Hank was to win his approval before Hank started shutting Darren out in Ant Man 1. They could've shown/mentioned Darren training with Hope before he started losing his mind by discovering the Yellowjacket formula. It would explain why Hope was even on his team in the first place, why Darren was already so good with the Yellowjacket suit in Ant Man 1 and makes Darren an even more tragic character as the Avenger that never was.

Darren is such a weird character in the MCU, he was a real Ant-man villain in the comics and was adapted to the movie but he showed up as Yellowjacket which was one of Hank pym’s alter egos when he was a superhero, and now he’s back but as MODOK so he just becomes this weird amalgam of different Marvel characters, most of which don’t have much a relation with one another.

Having Michael Peña join them, become a rebellion fighter and decide to stay with goo guy and the rest of the gang at the end would’ve been awesome. Sure, it’s a trope, but one that works, and at least some of the humor would’ve landed having him there.

I didn't get to say this in your other Ant-Man video, but I think the biggest disappointment for me is that Peyton Reed said Ant-Man and the Wasp would partially be a rom com and it barely felt that way. Considering how he made successful rom coms in the past and I wouldn't have minded the movie being part heist movie, part rom com. So to hear that The Wasp herself is barely relevant in this movie, along with other gripes, is just depressing. Here's hoping Scott's memoir will be great. I already pre-ordered it and I'm hoping he talked with Doctor Strange about how they were the only Avengers who traveled the Quantum Realm before Endgame.

MODOK is supposed to be a human super computer. It is what makes his origin make sense. I don't even know why Kang would wast a the resources keeping MODOK alive in the movie.

Jonathan Major's is the only reason why there's a debate to whether Quantumania is a good movie

Kang didn't need an army when he was conquering before but suddenly he needs to take an army with him. He is depicted as selfish but doesn't immediately try to escape by himself

everything you've said captures what I felt about this film. This film washed over me and left no imprint whatsoever. The ants made majors kang a joke for me and took away any notion that he could be a threat

Im noticing a real lack of story building as well, it went into the story beats at a pretty fast pace

I can’t help but think back to ant man’s introduction in the beginning of endgame. Honestly if they just gave Paul Rudd an entire movie more in line with that kind of character work, he would become an extremely valuable and popular leading character in the MCU. I think he can carry a lot of weight, they just aren’t letting him.

What’s weirder with the absence of the rest of the heist gang is that David Dasmalcian voices one of the quantum creatures in this. I feel like they missed a great chance to at least have all of that gang voice those characters in a Wizard of OZ-Esque move.

I would have loved if like, Luis got lost in the quantum realm for a bit and then the mid-credit scene was Luis telling a story like normal but it's some wild quantum-realm stuff and then whoever he's telling it to is like "I didn't understand any of that"

Can we also talk about how Hank Pym went from a fairly interesting character in the other movies to "guy who really likes ants" in Quantumania?

It would have been better if Modok was phase 5's Loki. Same movie but replace Kang with Modok and let the viewers see how different and bitter Modok was to the Ant family. And in the end, instead of defeating Modok, Kang would appear saving him, beating the ant family in the process. You know, just to show how powerful the next set of villains are. To add some flare, maybe Kang would kidnap Cassie and transport the Ant family back to normal earth so they can feel what the consequence is for facing Kang. This would then make Scott bitter setting him up for the next movies ahead.

The leaked Edgar Wright Ant-man test footage is way better than any minute of Antman quantumania.

Kang was the best part

I wonder how the movie would be received if they stuck with the original ending where Kang wins

Its amazing how the entirety of youtube can fix marvels problems but they higher R&M writers. I think everyone agrees that Modok should be the main villain and be deformed but the point where he puts strain on Janet and Hanks relationship is a great addition.

Damn bro, that line about a little jerk party with my special friends really caught me off guard 😂😂😂

It honestly felt like a massive Rick and morty episode

10:10 “The best scene in the movie is the heist” ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH THIS! That scene’s creativity and emotional depth alone made up for a lot of the bad in the movie for me

Why couldn't Kang escape the Quantum universe himself? Good review!

Damn that idea of Darren being introduced at the beginning is fucking good, I have no idea what that Kang intro adds to the movie, that would add so much to MODOK’s appearance later

Wow, I have not thought about that. You're right. MODOK being the real villain would make more sense and Kang could be alive.

Agreed! I feel like MODOK should have been the main antagonist, maybe he leads AIM from inside the Quantum Realm since that what MODOK is known for and he didn’t do it!

Everything was heading towards INFINITY WAR and ENDGAME Now the MCU became one big bubble, ready to burst

From phase 4 to present, MCU stopped having true sequels to their previous films. Now, they’re sequels to unrelated Disney+ series. (Doctor Strange 2 is a sequel to WandaVision and Aut-Man 3 is a sequel to Loki, instead of, their proceeding films)

After seeing it myself with friends, talking with them about it, and listening to extensive online reviews to hear a lot I discussion on the movie, I get the sense that anybody who has watched Rick and Morty seems to hate this movie, probably because they’ve “been there, done that”. I haven’t watched that show, and am objectively critical. I enjoyed this movie. I also go into these with a blank slate (no expectations). I notice that people who go in expecting greatness are always disappointed no matter what.

Getting out of the theater a week ago I thought it was the best Ant-Man movie, but upon further thought, your video and the fact that they recast Cassie from Endgame without telling her and just to have a bigger name makes me sad

The Ant-Man Quantumania I have in my head based on the few clips I've seen and the trailer is so much better than the actual movie that I don't even wanna see it tbh. I'll just pretend Scott was still a good father and he fought Kang to the death infront of the portal while going from Giant-Man to Ant-Man to try to get the upperhand and eventually trapping them both (just Kang and Scott) in the Quantum Realm.

It was definitely underwhelming especially when Janet was shown to be extremely afraid of kang but then his defeat was stupid. I would have preferred one of the heroes to die to show why kang is terrifying

Also, I feel like they threw Chiddy (don’t remember his real name) as fan service and to get him out of the way so we can’t ask for him as Mr. Fantastic anymore

I do mind that MODOK is silly. People seem to forget that, although he looks kind of silly, he’e actually very menacing in the comics. You can look at his depiction in the Avengers video game, where he’s the main villain. He’s vicious. MODOK was one of the villains I’ve been waiting on for a long time, like the Leader and Red Hulk, and he was treated like garbage. Unbelievable. Between this and the Hulu show, he’s a complete joke now. And if they really wanted him in this movie, they should have made him 100% robotic with a consciousness like Arnim Zola. Not like this man, my god…

I will never ever understand why the writers decided to make MODOK the same person as Yellowjacket. That seems like the most abhorrent decision ever made in the MCU.

Funny because Wakanda Forever looks fucking horrible too lmfao

*Spoilers* Speaking of Rick and Morty. They have a council of kangs 😂

The intro after two minutes was perfect

I kind of would have liked for Modok to be a phase villain along with the resurgence of A.I.M with Either Modok leading it or co-leading it with some like Monica Rappucini (Just cuz I kinda like the whole scientist supreme thing). Plus it could have introduced the cosmic cube

honest question -- was Crystal Skull really the first movie to do the "because they weren't you" line? because of course I noticed this lift immediately, but then I was wondering if it was any more of a common thing than I'd believed.

When I saw the film the moment M.O.D.O.K took off his helmet to reveal Darren Cross someone got up and left.

I would have started off this movie by showing Darren’s painful perspective of shrinking down to the quantum realm. Set a different tone, a serious painful tone. Darren is modok form is about to die before Kang shows up. Kang should know about Darren, he should know that Darren is a scientist type figure who worked for Pym industries on shrinking tech.

I mentioned before how I thought Scott's mian motivation of traveling into the Quantum Realm should've been to save Darren because of his belief in 2nd chances. Why would he take so long, because it would only recently be brought to his attention that Darren might still be alive, and stranded. Adding in the dynamic of Darren bonding with Hank's wife makes it even better.

I agree MODOK should've been the villain. There actually was no need for Kang in this film. It's only because of his history with the Quantum Realm in the comics that he was put into this and even that doesn't make sense because in the comics the only reason he has a connection to the realm is because thats where his wife Rovanna Renslayer is from. And in the MCU she isn't so his connection to it is meaningless. I think they were doing fine using Kang in the Loki show to build him up and it should've stayed there. MODOK is exactly the kind of silly villain that would've given Ant-Man the comedy element it needed and it even makes perfect sense, you could have Darren go to the Quantum Realm exactly the same way as before and had Janet find him and help him only for him to betray her and become a tyrant same as they had Kang do.

10:04 you know this came up but someone was against it because “how would they know it’s an ant man movie?”

I'm mostly mad about how they shafted him during his death. They played it off as a joke and as soon as he passed they moved on like it was nothing.

Watching the trailers, and even certain parts of the movie, it feels like the creators of this movie wanted to make something different, but the higher-ups at Marvel/Disney wouldn’t let them.

MODOK should have been an Ironman movie villain.

I appreciate this video, it expresses the way I feel about the movie in a way I cannot. My entire friend group thoroughly enjoyed the movie and I find myself in a position of not wanting to be “that guy” with my contradictory opinion. The only part of the movie I really enjoyed was whenever Jonathan Majors was on screen

Seriously tho who’s idea was it to put Kang in an Ant-Man movie out of ALL characters man

We have two new versions of the sky beam: wacky cgi mindfuck worlds and a final battle between two cgi armies.

"We aren't given cause to like or dislike him." That was but one variant of Kang. Just a little taste before we dive into the Dynasty

Before going in to see the movie, we knew that Kang had to be done 'smart', anything less than that was going to be an immediate failure. There was so much wrong with this movie, it hurt, and if the writer is going to be working on Kang Dynasty, Marvel is DOOMED. M.O.D.O.K. was un-freaking-believable how they trashed that character. It would have been easy to overlook how terrible he looked if he were written well, but we got NOTHING good in this movie at all.

10:42 Hey that's true haha, totally forgot those lines from the trailers... kinda sucked that I went to the bathroom before the heist scene and by the time I got back to my seat felt i didn't miss a thing...

7:57 was that guy in the back added in by full fat or was that genuine

Kang had absolutely no connection with Ant Man, at all. Janet Van Dyne should have been the main character of this movie.

Totally agree MODOKand Aim should have been the villains. Kang is too big to have been the main villain in the movie. Ideally if he was going to show up, it would be one of the more minor variants if at all. I feel MODOK was treated more as a joke which he shouldn't have been. Had it been done serious it would have been more tragic. VFX artists need to start work on the next MCU movie and start a strike in the middle of CGI production.

Rewatching some of the 2000s marvel movies and the x men film, I really miss the tone of those film, yeah they can be goofy like the fantastic four and ghost rider but there's still that tone of talking the situation very serious. I like to know what's your opinion on Nicholas Cage's ghost rider, do you think he should return or is Nicholas Cage a good ghost rider and what do you think of his black skull appearance in spirit of vengeance

Even more Star Wars + Rick and Morty than I expected. It even had the Citadel of Ricks at the end. Also agree about Kang. He's appeared twice now and been killed twice. So how is he scary?

Ehhhh. I wouldn’t call Ant Man the worst trilogy. To me it was obvious that this film wasn’t going to measure up to expectations because of the addition of Kang. Seeing there’s only 1 writer credited to this movie already gave me a lot of doubts that it wasn’t going to match the same tone as the previous installments. While I liked the idea that we’re going to see the Quantum Realm, I was disappointed that there wasn’t more opportunities to explore it. It’s clear that this movie should’ve been a 2 parter. Quantumania part 1 could’ve had MODOK as the villain & then part 2 could set up Kang

Personally it should have been about modok freeing kang from the quantum realm. And the pyms trying to stop him but failing and taking heavy losses.

I really have to agree with you :D This movie is just so uneventful and packed with uninteresting characters and half-assed plot points. I especially hated the thing with the advanced ants (advants? 😆) being the Get out of Jail free card.

This film was a shame, as it abandoned many elements that I found enjoyable in the previous Ant-Man outings. So, after the fact, of course, here are my belated suggestions! It absolutely required a first act set more thoroughly on Earth, in which we see more interaction with Cassie and the forgotten supporting cast from the previous films. My suggestion would be a sequence in which a character with a suit using Pym particles is engaged in protecting people or a place - guided by the guys from X-Con over ear pieces - only to find themselves confronting police officers, who consider their actions not conducive to public order... or plain just don't agree with the cause involved and want to arrest them rather than solve a systemic problem in society. This is when it is revealed that it is Cassie, not Scott Lang, who has ‘borrowed’ his suit. I liked the idea behind their slight difference of opinion (its made clear how good their relationship is by the fact that they never truly argue about it - Cassie is just so inspired by Scott that it worries him as a father) over whether Scott could do more with his abilities or has become too focused upon making up for lost time with his family. However, I think that we needed to see Cassie act in a way that shows not tells this - as well as providing some of the lost cast something to do. If the rest of the Quantum Realm idea is retained, I might adapt a few elements. First, bring the X-Con team, Cassie's mother and her step-father there too, to take part in a rebellion against the big villain. This provides opportunities for them all to demonstrate that they do live up to Cassie's expectations - that they care about people and are willing to take risks, as they all did in previous films. They also thus get to see Cassie come into her own and appreciate her, instead of this being assumed in a hasty end scene that is more focused on Scott's internal monologue. Second, make MODOK not a villain but a hero in the Quantum Realm. I have always found him to be a silly-looking, megalomaniac-for-the-sake-of-it character in comics, so I was pleasantly surprised to enjoy the film playing up to this comedic quality and making a connection to the earlier films and the characters. So, why not? I think they should have built upon the idea that he, as Darren, actually is pleased to see Cassie, and cannot for the life of him bring himself to hurt someone he remembers as a child. He was selfish and ambitious, and having a nervous breakdown at the time, but not a deliberate child-killer. Third, I like the idea of it being him that Janet helped, and that initially they worked as a team to help build a society in the Quantum Realm for the benefit of all - and Darren somewhat believed in it himself. He likes her and contrasts it with his feelings of betrayal by his mentor Hank. I would also keep the ants. I know, but they're cute! Janet had a few crawling on her suit when she initially shrank herself into the Quantum Realm. Maybe they helped build their egalitarian society there with her and Darren? Fourth, I think that - if he must be included to introduce him for future projects - this is where Kang the Conqueror might be introduced. He arrives in the Quantum Realm, and tries to charm Janet and Darren, offering his own technology for his liberty to return to the external world. But while Janet is taken in, it is Darren who is suspicious -using his enhanced computational brain to suspect an ulterior motive or notice his multiversal nature and doing some investigating. Kang makes his play to take over the Quantum Realm, and at some point Janet is brought back to San Francisco - leaving Darren to lead a resistance against the Conqueror. He forms MODOK - Mass Opposition Determined to Overthrow Kang. "Technically, that's MODTOK?" Maybe, he's upset that Janet disappeared, much as Bill Murray's pointless character was (who I would remove) - and Janet feels guilty for abandoning him involuntarily but also out of fear - but they overcome this as they realise that Kang has forced the ants to pervert their once-fabulous city into a huge time-and-space travelling machine. Have Cassie and Hank recognise this, thanks in part to their work with their ant colony back on Earth. The dramatic conflict of Janet's temptation to accept a deal from Kang to go back in time is given instead to more of the characters - in return for handing over Darren, whose mental powers are what is required to handle the computations. Go back in time and never make the mistakes that sent them to prison; that led to them being lost in the Quantum Realm; that led them to lose so much time either physically or emotionally with their daughter or parent. Everyone reasons themselves into rejecting Kang's offer - except for Scott, who seemingly falls for it. Perhaps Darren refuses to help Kang, but Kang threatens that Cassie could be used as a replacement with fatal consequences, until Scott agrees to betray them all. Cassie is outraged. For the first time, she feels that he has let her down, and betrayed his principles. She determines to continue the resistance, even if she must fight her own father. She shows her independence and ability to fight for others even at risk to her own life. Hank persuades the ants to rebel/frees them to add to their resistance. I like the idea of him keeping the ability to talk to them. Of course, it’s a trick. Darren has done a Dr Strange and worked out that this is their best chance to prevent an even greater threat: the unleashing of a multiverse of Kangs that Darren predicts might exist. Plug me in to Kang’s machine, he begs, and I will sacrifice my life to sabotage the calculations, sending him back instead unceremoniously to the assembly of Kangs to be dealt with. The effort kills him, but Darren still gets his moment to, genuinely, have acted like an Avenger. Cassie understands that her father is and always was an Avenger, willing to stand up for the little guy. The ominous ending has Darren’s plan having a fatal flaw: in sending the Conqueror back to the other Kang’s, he inadvertently alerted them to the existence of their dimension. They trace it back to the Quantum Realm, and then through the connection to Cassie’s device… We start in the same place, and reach the same end, but it was more fun along the way! What do you think? :-)

The first half of this movie i was kinda confused as to why people were saying it was so bad because it was just kinda meh but then i got to the second half and i was just "ah i see now"

Kang should have been curb-stomping every movie he saunters into in Phase 5. Shouldn't even be a fight for him.

THANK YOU for pointing out that the trailers clickbaited us on essentially a different premise for the movies. The one thing I hate the most about this movies is the flashbacks. When MODOK first appeared in the movie, both scott and cassie mentioned his name and referenced that he was yellow jacket in the 1st movie. There was literally no need for a flashback. The only ppl who would watched this movie are the ppl who were already invested in antman movies before. The one takeaway i had after watching the movie that it felt like a kid movie

08:48 I mean, there's a WAR fight going on around them and Cassie finds it comfortable enough to smile silly at her dad, nothing of this makes sense, she's about 18 years old she should be terrified

Totally agree with your feelings on this subject. I assume your familiar with GameTheory/FilmTheory? So Matt just released a video on Quantum Mania and I think you would find it interesting.

Marvel Studios can just use the George Tarleton version of M.O.D.O.K. in the Young Avengers Disney Plus series if they want to.

one thing's for sure. kang shouldve won, antman shouldve died, cassie with a bittersweet start of becoming a hero

I'm sincerely just hoping they get things back on track. I want to love these movies- I just think they need to take more risks as it's not even that the movies are bad imo They are just uninteresting? I've felt unmotivated to watch anything marvel and star wars lately as it sucks as I fucking ADORE those worlds. Yet, everything coming out just feels fine? Like even if it they were outright bad at least it'd be more interesting then just pretty samey predictable stories. I will just say, doubly so hope they get the MCU back on track. As the physicality of Kang when he's using his powers was great- Giving he's just firing off invisible laser beams on set, the way Jonathan Majors moves his body so aggressively was hella cool. He definitely could be an amazing villain as long as they actually start taking risks and doing something interesting with him.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to think that MODOK should've been the main villain.

When I saw it, at the moment Bill Murray took his hood off to reveal he was Bill Murray, a teenager started laughing. He hadn't even said anything yet. It was like "lol I know who that is"

“How can I show clips of an unreleased movie…?” Well, you could ask Odin’s lost son for help: Tor.

When you are more interested in imagining a movie about the ants evolution…

weirdly quite enjoyed the movie and MODOK was one of my favourite parts, found him menacing at times, loveable at others and really fun- for everything ive heard, all of his jokes landed for me and the theatre i was in

*not proud* nHaven't been to an opening premire to ANY film in Phase 4, I actually watched both BP2 and ANTMAN 3 online, I'll be waiting for it on D+ soon, but might actually go to cinemas to watch it in 3-D due to the wacky visuals which are pleasing to look at. Even in its dark, grainy version.

Just imagine all the death and destruction that could've been prevented if only the Avengers had Cassie around to tell Thanos to stop being a dick.

Mediocre like MoM ? Dude that movie was abysmal and no where near Mediocre 😂

I think it was perfectly fair for me to expect more from Peyton for this one after he brought back Luke Skywalker in Mando season 2 last year and gave us a great action scene with him. Tsk 😶

I thought the cgi in Wakanda Forever was crap I haven’t seen Ant Man yet but if it’s true about the cgi team dedicated their time to that I assume it’s going to look incredibly bad

No MODOK should’ve NEVER been in Antman 3, idk why they thought it was a “good” idea to bring Darren back a character literally no one likes bc he’s so forgettable, all they did was scratch out his face like Mr. Electric from Shark Boy and Lava Girl and that’s NOT what MODOK is plus he is associated with an organization called AIM so why tf is he Kang’s bitch?

You are one of the first person to bring up the fact that kang has no build up/backstory. They don't SHOW anything about what happened/how. Like you said they should have SHOWN how the Council of Kangs caught him, maybe show a battle between them at the beginning to establish how much of a threat he is, but he gets defeated at the end of it and banished , vowing to escape with revenge. That would have helped at least. Yes I know they exposition dump about his conquering and stuff later in the movie but they should have shown this in the beginning to build him up, then the fight with the council, then he gets banished, and then the rest of the plot begins

The main reason I liked MODOK is he reminded me this was an Antman film and he really is not that serious of a character in the MCU... Having said that, I hope we see MODOK again, a really REALLY evil & better written version of him, in the future but for more MCU characters..

This is a Hot Take. MODOK was unironically the best part of Quantumania

MODOK should have been the main villain! Im glad I’m not the only one who thinks that.

I fell asleep during the end so i can't really comment on some things but i did find it refreshing that Kang was a bad guy just because, not everything needs to be grey. He can just be a cunt, if they need to expand it later they can. Also, why is cassie a genius? If she came from the pym side of the family it would make sense.

If they changed the "AND I. AM NOT. A DICK!" line to "AND I. AM NOT. A WEAPON!" it could've been a great ending for him.

“ I will not pretend 2 like it becuz it will satisfy ur fanboy rage” I love this guy already I’m new here.

I could let the effects slide if they used him well and not they dropped the evil criminal egg.

They should have used elvis modok design

This movie should’ve been named “Ants, man”

Do a video on how you would fix the MCU

Does anyone bother to do a redesign live-action Sonic challenge to M.O.D.O.K!?

Agreed. There is no build up and too much of Kang and too early. Cassie is hella annoying. CGI is sloppy, Story is just bad and Hank does little to nothing. I wonder why the last movies and shows are so utterly bad. I am really starting to tune out of marvel for good.