The supposed QA playtester leak has been circulated a lot, but I, and a few other prominent dataminers I've discussed it with, are all pretty skeptical of it. One of the most telling faults is that it claims Gundyr was once called Oceiros and was housed in the boss room that Oceiros is in now. It's true that Gundyr was once in that boss room, but not only is Gundyr's AI reference name "Gunda", his param data is called Gundyr, other Pus of Man enemies are referred to with _Gunda or _Gundyr in their data, and even the boss room is called the Gundyr room. This is part of what makes it seem like the leak was just going off known info, the screenshot of Gundyr in the boss room, and then fabricating something that they thought made sense, the supposed name change. The verifiable information included in the leak is all things that had been shown by dataminers like myself or Lance before the leak was published, but nothing new it put forward seems to have anything backing it up.
@@Garl_Vinland It's just one of several things about the leak that don't make sense. The development history of Dark Souls III was very much assets first, story later. The idea these significant story and name changes were being done partway through doesn't match up with the timeline. One other particularly suspicious aspect of the leak is that, not only have none of its major claims been confirmed to be true, several major discoveries have been made that the leak didn't include. You'd think, if it were legitimate, it would have mentioned any of several other verifiable things that were found after it was published. It also claims Oceiros was added late in development, but Lance has confirmed he's even in early alpha builds.
@@ZullietheWitch Could it be that the Gundyr was always going to be the king, and Oceiros was later changed to be the king of Lothric? It makes more sense for the Boss room to be called Gundyr that way. So instead of names being swapped around, it is the boss wholesale?
I, legitimately, did not realize these were giant versions of the Batwing Demon until you made the direct comparison. I just thought they were generic demons! Makes sense that the gate to the oldest town is blocked by the oldest guardians of said gate.
I don't know that it makes that much sense- presumably they lived in Izalith for most of their existence before Lorian fought them. They ended up in the Dreg Heap because a lot of things ended up in the Dreg Heap.
Wait! I thought they were the last two demons. Isn't that why one of them turns into the demon prince? But then right after the boss fight, little bat demons carry you off to the ringed city.
@@gunide Well, either the whole "last demon" thing wasn't true or the bat demons aren't actually demons. The latter makes more sense to me as they don't seem to be affected by the waning chaos flame like the other demons. I kinda wonder if what we're seeing is actually that the 2 bat demons Lorian fought died and returned as unkindled ones. It also makes Lorian's story more ironic/pathetic. Dude fought some regular old bat demons and barely lived to talk about it. Then they came back as bad ass bosses who he wouldn't have stood a chance against. Who knows, seems like there's a lot of conflicting narratives there. Good job catching that.
I always thought it was weird how the Old Demon King fight, representing the last of the great demons, was introduced with so little fanfare, even before the main demon ruins area. And it also seemed weird that, after this battle against the king, which is clearly supposed to represent the 'end' of the demons as a threat, you just find some more demons in the dlc. So if your telling me you were supposed to fight the Bat Demon first, then progress through the Ruins and finally face the King, that would make a lot more sense to me.
Pretty sure the Demon Prince is technically dead already by the events of Dark Souls 3. Its stated by the description of Lorian’s sword that prince Lorian killed it. I’m pretty sure the only reason we fight it at the end of the Dreg Heap is because the fading of the fire has made time and space convoluted.
Well as far as the "end of demons", from the lore as I understand it the Demon King was the last original demon. He was the last one to have been born from the original Chaos flame and the last to remember how it burned. All others were derived from other sources, presumably through either reawakenings of the chaos like we see in DS2 or perhaps through the reckless pursuit of Pyromancy. Either way, he was the end of the old demons, but a few would exist beyond him. The two demons you fight in the DLC are the true final throes of the demon race. My understanding is that the title of "demon prince" is analogous to "lord of cinder" in that any individual demon with enough power could inherit the lingering chaos flame of demonkind and use it as their strength. By killing the demon prince, we finally end the demon's cycle of flame and in turn end their world, much like how in the Ringed City DLC we end the illusion holding the city in place and see the true end of our own world, beyond the endless linking, seeing a world made only of ash and the vague memories of times gone by.
Whether it was real or not, how cool would it have been to aim the ballista to shoot down a demon flying around the Smoldering Lake, that would be dope. Knocking it down could potentially trigger a boss fight with it, reminiscent to Gough shooting down Kalameet in DS1.
@@ronniewhitedx ds1 boss room design was awesome. Undead asylum really nailed it, being able to see not only the asylum demon but the trapped demon right off the bat looming/marching around was awesome
While very cool, it would have made the fight be very gimmicky, in short instead of having the cool, life draining, hard boss fight we have noww, you would've got a version that would most likely be like the one from Demon's souls
It always felt to me that the dreg heap area from the ringed city, was comprised of ideas they wanted to do in the base game but was cut for time. The fact that the kiln of the first flame in vanilla is just a few warp points (complete with an excessive amount of bonfires for an area you don’t fight any enemies in) and a short walk to the boss arena. The idea of traveling through the ruins of the eras to get back to the ruins of ds1’s fire link shrine always felt like it would have been more appropriate for the main game than the dlc.
To be fair, the dreg heap is basically a bunch of thrown together stuff from various times, making the implementation of cut content and abandoned ideas pretty fitting actually.
I always figured that the events of the ringed city are in the same time frame as the soul of cinder fight, even farther into the future than the rest of the game (with the firekeeper's ritual moving you forwards in time)
@@TheStraightestWhitest I kind of feel the same for the Lothric castle theme. Originally there used to be constant music. It could’ve been like in botw where the entire game is quite but then the finale is loud and epic. The unused castle ost also has a soul of cinder leitmotif so that would be even more fitting (I always felt like the SoC theme was kind of random)
@@gosucab944 while yes, freide did do it before him, I still think the prince's resurrection is just cooler overall as he erupts into flames with that menacing screem that echos through the arena.
@@TheDungeonDive Ds 3 really over used that didn't it. The first time is cool. The seventh time it feels like the game is stretching out the fight for the sake of stretching it out.
@@shinysnivy6604 Speak for yourself, I think DS3's second phases made the fights feel really dynamic and unique, even if they didn't change much in the fight. The Pilgrim Butterflies in Dragonslayer Armour's fight, for example, made the second phase feel so much more climactic and intense than if you just fought the DS Armor the same way the whole fight.
I always thought it was awesome how their fight took place in the remnants of the Fire Link Shrine. Perhaps the Demon Prince represents an attempt of Demonkind to utilize the First Flame for themselves, since their species was already well into decline. That might also help explain why Prince Lorian had to battle him, to preserve the first flame for Lothric. Edit: just another thought I had was that the Demon Prince himself even appears like an "embered" form of the twin demons, so maybe there's something to that as well.
The demons did rely on the chaos flame to stay alive. It makes sense to assume that one would get the idea of using the first flame to fuel their species after the Witch of Izalith's death. I'm sure all the followers of Gywn did not take kindly to a potential usurper. Nice observation.
@Michael Smith bc fromsoft makes good games despite their tight deadlines. Look at ds2, Most companies would fold if they had a year to make a game and they had to scrap it half way through.
This is why I love when games get DLC's. Because there's a chance that they'll reintroduce previously cut content that they couldn't add in due to time constraints.
Not including the big crossbow in a bossfight is another understandable change. The demons have suffered enough, they don't deserve to get the Pursuer treatment on top of everything else. Heh.
It probably would of been more similar to Kalameet if I had to guess. Wings and ranged attacks essentially win you a fight if your foe can't force you to land. Idk why the drakes land to be honest. Maybe they can't fly for long? Seems unlikely.
@@TheNeoVlad it would have been much cooler to be able to actually use the ballista after all the work it takes to get up there, instead of just pressing the off button. I doubt anyone would want to deal with *both* a flying demon bombing you with fireballs and a ballista at the same time, though
@@moonlightning8269 Once you run across the field the ballista is unable to shoot you. The land where the ballista is placed does seem like it would have something land there to attack you so maybe it would defend the ballista to keep you from shooting it.
This fight remains my favourite fight in the entire Soulsborne series. The music, the location, the fkin transformation into a Balrog of Mordor. What an amazing introduction into the last DLC
Zullie, do you know if there are bosses in DS1 who have being-plunging-attacked animations who could not normally be plunging attacked since there's no high point in their arena?
I loved the fight with the Demon Prince and his retinue in 3. It was a fun challenge to overcome to FINALLY get to this beautiful sunlit ringed city, and the soundtrack piece worked so well for the fight too.
The Great Bat is almost certainly a reference to the Crimson Bat in Glorantha, a giant monster used by the Lunar Empire to defeat armies, with the ability to eat souls. We know Miyazaki has some knowledge of Glorantha, through the old Dragon Pass boardgame he keeps in his office.
I mean it's a skippable zone within an optionnal zone as you can just go right off to the Demon Kings arena and skip everything else if you don't play as a pyromancer as you need to get the tome of Izalith and Quelana
Same here Demon Prince and Gael are the hardest bosses for me I think partially because they both have large health bars so just simply spending more time in the fight makes me more liable to make mistakes.
Reminds me when I did a Chaos play-through and had to fight the Demon Prince, literally was almost impossible lmfao And yes, Old Demon King was hard too, but no where near as bad 😂
yep. I think It would be the only interesting theme in this game, but this dumbass miyazaki just threw it away, the most fitting theme from the game just to put another generic ds3 soundtrack that brings nothing new to the table
@@waltersullivan2727 yeah, maybe its very epic, but aren't all of the ds3's soundtracks like that? Epic choirs and Orchestra. No storytelling, no emotions. When I listened to Crimson bat ost while fighting demon prince I really felt like killing the last remaining demon in the world, destroying the whole species that wanted no more than peace. That is very good storytelling. But why Brother when you can make epic orchiestra music with choirs for the 50th time, right? Look at the Ds1 soundtrack and how they handled the music. Every ost is different and tells different story
@@faraam7111 No story telling no emotion? You listen to Abyss Watchers or Twin Princess OST and tell me you don’t get emotion out of that? Crimson Bat OST isn’t bad at all but I just think Demon Prince fits better. That transition from phase 1 to Phase 2 is a gradual bellow. Coupled with the Demon Prince rising from the ashes fits very well. The theme also low-key gives me Demon of Hatred vibes which I love. “Wanted no more than peace” thats a stretch lol
Zullie you are the best current content creator for anything Souls related! Hell, you're my favorite content creator in general right now. Thank you for the consistency! I look forward to your upload time daily
I absolutely love behind-the-scenes stuff like this. It's just so fascinating to see the devs thoughts and plans and ideas evidenced by half-finished or semi-deleted content like this. Keep up the great work, Zullie!
Uploaded less than 10 mins ago and already has almost 3k views! It’s great to see your channel really taking off Zullie, you have most certainly put in the work and make consistently engaging and thought provoking videos. What an amazing asset to the Souls community you have created with your work! Absolutely crushing it.
@@timelessdust3001 no, like he just said, twin demons where do you come out of nowhere "really not Gael or pontiff?" Derp Derp. Did anywhere in his comment he type Gael or pontiff? He clearly clearly clearly said twin demon no one care about your favorites cause no one asked. So dont go pushing your favorites "no Gael or pontiff Derp?" Really you mean your favorite isn't dancer or yhorm? I mean really who likes pontiff? Easier than most bosses in the game easier to parry than Iudex gundyr. Next time domt comment
This was way more enlightening for me than I thought it'd be, since I've always been interested in the cut Great Bat ever since the cut music tracks were discovered and one was theorized to be the Bat's theme Excellent work as always, Zullie! :>
i sure did pick a weirdly perfect time to go back through all the Soulsbornes this last year. so SO many relevant videos popping up at the perfect time. like i JUST got done beating the Demon Prince early about 2 days ago and now this video pops up. and to think all started because of you and Illusory Wall's videos that made me just want to go back and play all 4 of the games and ive mostly had a blast. i say mostly as im getting at least 1 of every item in the games and DS1 is FAR easier to do that in compared to DS2 & 3 as those 2 have either abysmal drop rates for very specific covenant items or have online required to even get the items. im still trying to figure something out for DS3's "concord well kept" item, but thankfully i got some help easily for DS2's absurd requirement for 2 certain rings.
@Zullie the Witch Very intriguing how you educate us on this legendary games development and secrets! It's like watching the in between moments of an art piece being drawn and I love it!!! Please keep it up!!! *Bows*
the shit you find just for the hell of it blow my mind, idk if you'll ever see this but every time i come home drunk I watch like 20 of your videos and just gawk at how much went into these games truly youre a madman but this world is better for you being here k thanx
I actually really like that they completed cut content, refined it, and put in DLC--think of all the times we saw cut content that we all wished was finished and in the game! FROM has a history of quality and making things worth the price, so I'm completely fine with this.
No need to take screenshots of the video, I have something much better: twitter.com/ZullieTheWitch/status/1466663349312102400 twitter.com/ZullieTheWitch/status/1466664962881953794
Even if it's fake it would have made a lot of sense to get to the ballista to access the Bat fight, similar to Kalameet in DS1. I always felt like the Lake made no sense, as you have to progress through this enormous maze just to get to the top of the mountain and then... nothing. There's nothing there. The only thing you can do is disable the ballista, which makes zero sense since it only shoots an area you have thoroughly explored by then. Now, if you are presented with the boss room first BUT you need to get to the ballista to actually get into the fight... now that would make a lot more sense. I remember how I didn't even go to the Demon ruins in my first playthrough because I didn't even find it. I got to the lake, found the fog wall, fought the boss and upon seeing there was no clear place to continue I just teleported out.
It's a shame the demons got shafted in terms of representation in all three games. Given how berserk heavy the souls universe is you would have thought demons would have had a bigger impact, especially with the civil war of demons vs Gwyn, Chaos vs Light
The story of the demons in all 3 games is being shafted. In the first game, they’ve been beaten down by Gwyn. Then a random undead comes along and destroys their birth flame, leaving them in permanent decline. In 2, you kill one of their kings. Then in 3, the Ashen One comes along and murders the last of their race. At no point are they really a large scale threat.
@@Fireclaws10 to be honest it us implied that the war with the demons is what started the decline of the age of fire. Gwyn may have ended up winning but the huge losses inflicted upon his forces led to the weakening of his age, the rise of the undead curse and power of the dark souls emerging. Which led Gwyn sacrifice himself in order to preserve the age of fire.
You do know The age of fire was in decline even bafore the demons got to exist right? they were created by a failed attempt to recreate the first flame by the Witch of Izalith known as chaos flame which all the demons share
I'd love if Zullie did a video like this for the cut bosses of Bloodborne too. I know they've been revealed already but i'd love more info on like The Great One Beast for example. This video completely intrigued me :D
I just recently played through DS3 for the second time, this time with a guide and my experience was much less negative than the first time, so the timing for this one is perfect for me.
I also had seen that Carthus Sandworm & Crimson Bat were originally going to be a duo boss fight according to healthbars indication (I think @AesirAesthetics said that)
it having it´s brains out is kind of graphic for some reason I realized ingame that it´s head must be damaged due to the flaps hanging down from it but I never noticed that the skull is just open like that
I've always wondered, Zullie, do you ever plan on covering any other FROM Soft series? Like King's Field etc? Or are there any other games that fascinate you the same way that you'd like to cover?
Gotta be one my favorite fights in that entire game. Gank boss done right. Also sidenote, the music in this video is very unsettling and I kinda want to cry now because of it, but like.. in a good way
I either never noticed or had forgotten that the Old Demon King's room is full of petrified dead demons. Tis a cool detail. From loves its piles of petrified/burned corpses melded together. They even make some enemies out of them.
When I first saw the batwing demons I instantly thought of night gaunts from the H.P. Lovecraft mythos. I don’t doubt their description in “The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath” inspired the design of the batwings from ds1
Huh...man that would make the Demon Prince model pretty old, wouldn't it? The DLC came out some time later, the Ringed City DLC later still. It's really cool that Fromsoftware uses stuff like that, and yet magically makes it fit the scenario they have it in.
Kalameet, Chester and Artorias had concept art long before Dark Souls 1 even came out. They worked them out in the DLC. Brume Tower DLC in Dark Souls 2 used a lot of assets or ideas from the early version of Iron Keep. And yeah the Bat Demon was earlier than the DLC. A lot of armors that were in the DLC were already existing in the files in Dark Souls 3 before they were released. Unfortunately the coolest one called the Burial Knight set was never released
The Demon Prince fight we have is awesome and cool and all... but I love the concept of having to climb to the balista to shoot the demon down and then fight it. A bit better concept than that of Kalameet in my opinion
Always thought the smouldering lake wand demon ruins were not enough impressive. The idea of adding the crimson bat as a mid boss of the area would've been beautiful
Yo Zullie, I know it may be too much work but can you may create playlist of your videos sorted by game? That would be great to see specifict thing about one of the games instead of having a mixed playlist.
The dreg heap looks so much like the area surrounding the final boss arena I have to assume that it was at some point meant to be a lead up to that battle.
It's weird because the "shooting down the bat" idea almost seems plausible. It would explain why the boss room is just kind of right there, accessible just by crossing the lake section without needing to properly traverse the bulk of the level. If one needed to get all the way to the ballista to shoot the bat out of the sky, causing it to land in its boss room a-la Kalameet, that would kind of tie it all together. Alas, I guess it was just a well thought out lie.
