What If The Vikings Stayed In America? | Alternate History 

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Leif Erikson Day would be one of our national holidays.

To summarize the European colonist's first contact with the American Vikings: OH SHIT!! NOT YOU AGAIN!!!!

So wait... You’re telling me, that this alternate history gives us Vikings with guns? I think we were born in the wrong world.

I feel colonialism would also slow greatly, over four centuries-agricultural and metalworking techniques from the Norse making their way into native hands is inevitable. North American tribes would likely be similar to that of the Germanic tribes, resistant to diseases, farming and perhaps even utilising horses brought over by the Norse. A nightmare for France and Britain for sure.

Just the thought of a viking Florida man sounds like the most intimidating thing to ever exist

Me: "oh, this video seems cool. ima watch it" Mike Bloomberg: *Allow me to introduce myself*

I think the later colonists would have one major advantage over the Norse colony...gunpowder. Even though firearms were primitive in 1492, they would gradually improve over the coming centuries. That would make them a game-changer in this Euro-Norse War. Also, I think the Viking colony might have inadvertently made it harder for the later Europeans to colonize elsewhere. The Vikings would bring with them European diseases much earlier than in OTL. That might give the natives a chance to build up an immunity to them as well as allowing them a few centuries to repopulate after the initial outbreak. Thus, the Spanish and Portuguese would have a much harder time conquering South America and the English and French would have a much more difficult time in the North.

European Settlers: arrive on North America Viking Americans: Who the hell are you guys? European Settlers: How the hell did you guys not die yet?

Since the Norse were literate, knew "the secret of steel" and in many ways equal or superior in technology to their Europeans of the day, I say it would be a hard time to beat them if they really managed to make a foothold and grow in population. No, the Norse wouldn't have had firearms, but just like the Japanese, it would take them a few years to replicate and even improve.

In my observation, the Norse are very good at inserting themselves into an already exsisting government structure and often does well where they're the minority. They assimilate and unite the different cultures as they have no preconception of each cultures. The Ruriks united various Slavic Tribes, the Normans assimilating to the French customs and assimilate the different groups of Southern Italy. They inserted themselves into the Byzantine Nobility and go on Crusading and establish Crusader States.

Long Live Vinland (When you're watching Monsieur Z videos and a new one comes out "5 minutes ago.")

The pledge of allegiance on this timeline: “...one nation under ODÍN…”

A couple of days ago I started an EU4 campaign just like this. Its 1444 and the last group of Norse Pagan warriors decide to flee Christian Europe and roll the dice on this new land they have heard about from Legend. They started with 1 territory and a small population. One day they will bring Odin back to the Land of Ice and Snow...

The mayflower land in America: Wonderful a new land- *Sounds of barbaric shouting are heard coming from the distance* Settlers: Why do I hear boss music.

Imagine the British coming only to meet the Vikings again

Person: hello Viking Viking: where is your beard and where is your axe!

I think the European conquest would’ve been harder and more natives would’ve survived, mostly because disease would have spread enough for a few hundred years that the remaining natives would’ve built up a immunity to it and build up their numbers again, as well as Viking weapons would’ve inevitably falling in the hands of some native tribes and would’ve spread

But the real question is what about the horses they theoretically brought over? and whats that effect on the surrounding cultures

That would have actually been kinda cool.

This is my favorite EU4 custom faction to play. The Vinlandian Empire

Imagine the Vikings actually getting to Minnesota

What if Visogothic Kingdom never fell to the moors?

Always love learning about my Ancestors

There are 492 years between Leif Erikson's discovery of Vinland and Columbus discovering the West Indies. In contrast, Jamestown was only settled 413 years ago. It was noticeable that once established English settlements in America would double in population every generation due to the plentiful farmland for new families even if immigration was subtracted. So any viable settlement would be an expanding settlement with a growing population spreading exponentially across America. Once they have a population big enough for full-sized armies no native resistance would stand a chance and Norse farms would spread across all of North America by the time of Columbus. Viking longboats would already be raiding the Aztecs and Caribbean for gold and conquest. Vinlanders may continue trading with the old world bringing back technology so they might already have Viking tall ships.

Cool. I live in Newfoundland and I've always wondered about this. Mostly I like the idea of earlier settlement efforts working the land for an extra 500+ years so we could grow more of our own food.

I could also imagine a scenario where Erik the Heathen decides to pull stakes and head to the west rather than fight a losing war at home.

As always it ends right before the most interesting part. :(

American Vikings would be interesting. For them to have a Viking/European heritage would be something.

Wait so the norse had a 2nd ammendment type tradition?

I could see tribes like the cree and the Iroquois enduring raids from the Norse and having some of their people sold at slave market. That means there could be a decent number of natives who also speak Old Norse. This might lead to the rise of what the Spanish called the mestizo population essentially the people children of indigenous and European parents

What if Germany kept its Pacific protectorates

What if the CCP fell during a Korean War where the US wins (no stalemate)?

This video could really use a part two if you ask me:)

It's been two years and I still wish this had a part 2.

I wonder what the modern world would look like if the Vikings stayed in America. Would it be more advanced? Less? Better than the states we know today?

We could arguably see something similar to the Kievan Rus develop in the Missisipi basin, with ultimate trading targets in the more developed cultures of Mesoamerica in place of the Byzantines and the Arabs. Arguably the influence of a consistent Norse colony would spread well beyond their would be meager territory in the north east. The advance of metal working technology, horses and European germs into the heartland of North America - again, through the easily navigable Missisipi - would transform the local people. By the time Cortes reaches Mesoamerica, it's societies would be largely innoculated from European diseases, would arguably have metal weapons and even cavalry, presenting a much tougher nut for the Spanish to crack. How that would turn out - and in the case of Cortes failing, would Pizzaro even attempt the conquest of the Inca - is certainly a fascinating topic of discussion.

I kinda wish this was the true History, who else wish so ?

What if The Man in the High Castle was a reality? You inspired me to become a alternate history fanatic btw

What if the japan decided to colonize America after they got into contact with Portugal and the Netherlands.

What if the Kingdom of Soissons survived? Basically the Soissons was a rump state and it was disconnected from the rest of the Western Roman Empire. Eventually when Western Rome fell, the Soissons held out. It would be interesting to see if they actually survived more than they did.

Not sure if you'll see this, but I have a proposal: What if the US never left the Moon(as in, they didn't stop sending people to the Moon after 1972)?

What if Tecumseh's resistance succeeded?

"Ah shit here we go again" - a european explorer seeing a viking in america probably

Interestingly, despite impact of Norse settling being minor, it's believed to have initiated the Anishinaabe Migration, created many tribes that exist today

Consider also that the Norse would have brought several of the plagues that decimated the Americas centuries later in the real timeline. So though they might face initial difficulties, as smallpox and other diseases ravaged the local populations, the Norse would benefit by less competition.

I cannot believe you don’t even have 100k subscribers. All of your content is so professional and amazing. Keep up the good work

This could do with a part 2. I would like to know if our Skyrim would retake Scandinavia?

We want a part 2 of this, for sure

*captures Chicago five times

Will you be making a part two for this scenario?

The most interesting part of this to me is how the early introduction of domesticated animals to the americas as a result of this would effect the native americans

Part two??? Please this is so saucey I love it

Was just thinking about Vinland today so i was

As a 22nd Generation NorseMan I am proud of my Heritage we made it to the new world.

I'm new to your channel and I don't know if you return to these scenarios, but I really hope you come back to this one. I binged watched a lot of these, and I find this one to be the most interesting idea, I think it would be interesting to see how you would have things progress from the end of this on.

For April Fool's please make What if Joshua Norton became emperor of the USA, it is time for the US to show the UK who is the real empire.

Finally some quality videos

Just thought of an interesting idea that the St Lawrence river would be name the Heimdall river as Heimdall was the protector and keeper of the rainbow bridge that connected the nine realms and the St Lawrence river connects to the Great Lakes I think it fits pretty well.

What if Wilhelm let Leopold take the spanish throne in 1870 and was actually on time for the coronation

One of your best!

The greatest effect would be the illness inflicted on the Mayas and Aztecs by the Vikings, perhaps preparing them to an European invasion.

This video was awesome!

To answer what if vikings stayed in America: video starts at 12:57

North America would definitely have history of epic warriors with swords.

New England would’ve been an entirely different ballgame if there were a bordering nation of Vikings thumbing around to the north. Stay well out there everybody, and Jesus Christ be with you friends.😊

nice work

Honestly quite incredible

Notification Squad anyone?

i like this video it gaves me a game idea for ck2 to eu4 kudos bro

States resulting from intermixing between Natives and Norse would have also existed. Not to mention, through interactions with the Norse, some Natives night have acquired knowledge about metallurgy, domesticated animals and some resistance to diseases, which would allow them to expand south.

Please make a part 2!

What if the Norse kindoms never forgot about their expats, but continued trade routes with Norse America?

For the next part of this growing series. What if the Norse did integrate their communities with the natives? (The starts of the republic of Vinland). And then European colonial efforts had to come in conflict with an organized Vinland and a native population that had, had their immune systems introduced to the European biomes before.

I just finished Vinland Saga S1, so finding this video was perfect timing

There is a possibility that these Vikings and natives would see their mutual interest in combine defense against the incoming invaders the old saying they hang together or hang separately.

Frankly, I think something like this would have happened except for, The Little Ice Age in which, the Greenland colony perished and the Iceland colony barely survived. Absent the The Little Ice Age caused by the corresponding Grand Solar Minimum, your scenario or something similar probably would have happened. Humans have always been subject to the weather derived from what the Sun does. And, lest any mistake, that subjectivity HAS NOT changed.

"Norse--americans" I like that😊😊😊

Very good

What if Charlemagne was a pagan and never converted the Frank's to christianity?

You should expand on some of these

the Flag for this episode is nothing short of Genius!

Yo, how do you make your maps? They are really cool looking!

Can you pls make a part 2 of this.

Was a little sad when you mentioned the interactions with other cultures there was no mention of the norse interactions with the sami people, as the sami and natives in north america do have a fair few similarities in terms of both having shamanism and some other things. Though the main positive interaction between the sami and the norse was the sami building them boats so maybe it isn't really important

I sometimes wish your videos had part 2s.

What if Monsieur Z did a playthrough of a Paradox game?

Awesome video; I wonder how much exploration the Vikings would have done. If, after the settlement of the northern part of America, maybe they still water a better environment so they could have possibly coasted south and perhaps found new tropical places and cultures.

I see this going vaguely as follows: 5 to 15 thousand norsemen arrive over a 20 year span to preserve the old ways. By the 50th year after their first settler fleet they have lost at least a third of their population to small diseases, conflict with the local tribe, one or two small Norwegian invasions, famine, etc. The following century sees general growth as they dominate the surrounding half dozen or more native tribes that were crippled by disease and lacked the technology to make up for it but still aggressively defended their territory. Some tribes become trading partners that likely even join the Norse in wars against old rival tribes. The Norse adjacent tribes are converted to a hybrid culture heavily influenced by Nordic belief, tradition, and technology, they utilise Viking livestock and craftsmanship to expand their own territory alongside the Norse. Maybe these Norsemen and their allies have collectively secured more land than all of Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, and the British isles by the 200 year mark following the first settlement. By such a time the majority of that land is Norse controlled with their farming, fort towns, horses, literacy, and Nordic industry allowing them to rapidly grow into the ethnic majority by far for this loose and inconsistent alliance that is now expanded to the Great Lakes and well into Canada and the warm coast southeast of the Appalachians. By the 3rd century they have annexed those allies and formed something like the Kievan Rus around their true holdings. Taking over nobility in many tribes and often converting most of their people to Norse, the tribe gaining the lands of any neighbour that hadn’t submitted, joining a greater trade system as a largely autonomous territory that, along side many others, fuels the wealth, trade, development and overall power of the norsemen. This Kievan Rus 2.0 operating as a secure trade system to work with the wealthy city states and empires of Central America. The central area covering the Great Lakes, much of Ontario eastwards, and south along the Appalachian into the Carolinas of out timeline is all majority Norse culturally, religiously and ethnically. The lands spanning as far as Texas and into the Great Plains now broken into hundreds of native majority states, the closer to the Norse, the more developed, more culturally and linguistically Nordic, and higher amount of still low Norse minorities. The further away the more autonomous but militaristic with soldiers from the inner regions often on the outskirts to maintain security for trade and cultural assimilation. This system being the one present by the arrival of iberians in the Americas. European arrival would allow the Norse leadership to push hate towards the Christian invaders as the true enemy to divert the discontent and rebelliousness of many tribes and any unhappy norsemen. The colonial powers working as a scapegoat for further unification of many highly assimilated tribes and record level centralisation of the core kingdom. The Norse will likely lose control west of the southern majority of the Louisiana river as enemy groups of natives join with Europeans to tear away any Norse presence/influence there and secure everything to the south for colonial growth. While the iberians likely see them as a mere inhibitor of further expansion that needs to be dislocated from the more controllable majority of the Americas, following powers like Britain, france, and the Dutch would have a more vested interest in weakening what they’d see as the remnant of the Vikings, their old enemies. The Norse would have comparable industry, shipbuilding and weapons to these powers by the time they can make a genuine effort in attacks, due to the Norse having generations to replicate the advances of the Spanish enough that reverse engineering British technology in subsequent conflicts would take very minimal time. I think by the time they stop losing any land to the European powers, the Norse would have lost parts of Florida, any remaining control over the Caribbean and west of the Louisiana, but been too strong and self sustaining to lose anything else as they only get stronger and more advanced with every year of contact with Europe. They may even push through the northeast at some point to secure the west coast from around Oregon northwards to cut off any orthodox Russians and reduce catholic expansion northward by an at that time independent Mexico. The wars against europeans would have caused drastic changes to the Norse nation, masses of native Americans from anywhere north of Yucatan immigrating away from the imperialists to join the war against such forces. The internal territories far more centralised, possibly into something close to a collection of states with the Nordic rules and ethnically dominant ones making up the slight majority of the land and the others working as locations to direct native immigrants and Europeans escaping their overseas governments for whatever reason. These “states” would likely split off once the colonial threat is no longer imminent, breaking away into a small southern native country and comparable nations in the northwest and west, the 60% or greater remaining land including all the most developed, centralised, militarised, and majority Norse, newly reformed and refined nation. Subsequent wars may be enacted by this loose union of religiously pagan states against Mexico and to take islands in the Caribbean. By 1850 the Nordic country likely has annexed most of the small breakaways to hold northern and eastern North America and absorbed most of the Americas into a sphere of influence with the core goal of anti foreign sentiment, anti Christian, and long term increased unification of the Americas under their leadership, language, religion, and alphabet. Interesting thinking where such an Americas plays into international politics following 1800, especially with how the British refocus their expansions in other directions far earlier on, and how this may change World War One and everyone from the 20th century onwards at such extreme levels. Given the extreme anti colonial sentiment, it’s possible they would be open to a Germanic alliance with the German empire for ww1 depending what the Germans are willing to agree to, otherwise the Americas would surely be neutral. So many things in this to explore and so many infinite, highly intriguing divergence points constantly from their settlement onwards.

North America? I think you mean... Norse America

European armies when vikings on moose come charging from the forest: "Time to abandon colony."

What if Harold Godwinson somehow defeated the Norman invasion and what would the future of England would look like after the events of 2 invasions on the isle?

I need to make Beyond Vinland. The ultimate Caribbean Viking and Island Management simulator.

What if FDR survived to serve his 4th term?

Could you please make a sequal to this video, picking up where you left off here, to show what moght have happend in the longrun?

"king of the wood" by john maddox roberts is an excellent novel on the subject

Yay! The Minnesota Runic Stone would be genuine then!

This would set the natives in a far better position further down the line.

You missed a detail. After centuries of European diseases sweeping through the Americas like wildfire, the native tribes and empires would develop immunities to many of them, making later colonization take on a very different charecter. For one thing, healthier natives post contact means less need for Spain and Portugal to bring in African slaves. Caribbean ethnic and cultural history takes on a MUCH different trajectory just due to that. Fewer natives dieing of smallpox also means a higher Indian to White ratio in the western hemisphere.

This would be a great historical fiction novel /movie.