@@pigsfood27 Because if it's dead it can't produce anything. Without faith it's impossible to please God. Why do you think wicked devilish people can please God?
This is where the confusion lies: No one is saying Sanctification, Obedience, perseverance and surrendering to Jesus are unimportant. They are important. They are just NOT a requirement of Salvation. To be saved, you must be humble enough to admit that because you are a sinner and fall short of God's standard, there is nothing you could do on your own to earn salvation. Salvation is a free gift of God, paid in full by Christ's death on the cross. Believing on Jesus - meaning believing that he is the ONLY reason why you are justified - is what gets you to heaven. People call that "easy believism" and scoff at those who think that. But really, it takes humility to accept that there is nothing in your power to be saved. And that is why most people reject the simplicity of the Gospel. But if you say that you need to persevere, do good, turn away from sin etc. in order to be saved, that is works-based salvation. And if you want to follow that path, then you will be judged according to your works. And no one can live up to the standard of the law. "Grace" is grace because you don't deserve it. Period. Just a quick note - when the Bible uses the word "repent" in the context of salvation, it means a 'change of mind'. Every other religion says you need to be good to be saved (or get to nirvana or attain a higher caste etc). Only the Bible teaches Grace. To believe in Jesus IS repentance from your pride - thinking that you are a good person - to understanding that you need God and God alone to be made worthy. Obedience to Jesus comes as a requirement of fellowship. Perseverance, is a requirement of fellowship. As a Christian, it is in your desire to please God. So yes, turn away from sin by all means. But that is what you do because you are saved - not to get saved or to prove your saved etc. Also, another misunderstanding is the word "fruit". Because people assume that it only means "works" as evidence. However, "fruit" is also used to mean doctrine. And that is how you spot false teachers - if they are teaching the wrong doctrine, it means they are not bearing fruit.
@leadthelefthand - If a person claiming salvation has no ongoing sanctification, they are not converted, Hebrews 12:14, 2 Corinthians 3:18-4:1ff. So, yes, in a sense sanctification is a 'requirement' of salvation since it is evidence of true conversion. You need to get biblical when you're attempting to teach, you're off track.
As with all Calvinist/LS doctrine, just keep reading after whatever "proof" text they cite. Modern day pharisees, nothing more. 2 Cor 4:16, 2 Cor 5:4, 2 Cor 5:12, 2 Cor 5:17, 2 Cor 5:19, "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." 2 Cor 5:21 (KJV). All one has to do is go back to the gospel to refute LS/Cal.
@leadlefthand - That's cute. If a person has none of those things they've never been truly converted. So in that sense, you're incorrect about them not being a "requirement" -- Hebrews 12.14; John 10.27; Philippians 1:9, 2:13 respectively. Not sure what you mean by "surrendering to Jesus" but perhaps you mean they are rebellious like a goat, never bear fruit, have no evidence of conversion and that's OK too, because, you know, they said "the sinners prayer". I mean, how would one, who is truly converted by Christ, ever really want to "surrender" to Him? What an abhorrent thought!
@@birddogsforever9135 you take a simple premise and make it complicated. Can you actually divide these things I think not. Go back and give us Bible quotes and scriptures to back this up do your work before you make your statements
@Janaina Ribeiro you're wrong but I have not the energy to explain it to you read your Bible. There are so few saved as Christ has said. Deception by the Antichrist which is anybody that is not in Christ is making statements that are not biblical. Why do you use hyperbole? You don't think God has ordered everybody to be saved? Isn't it our refusal to come to Christ that dams us for eternity. You're saying that God does not request us to be saved? He's neutral on the subject? You're best for me if you are a Christian then your Works will be burned up in the fire at the bema seat. If you're not a Christian this will add to your condemnation and Hell. This is not a game people listen to this. The Bible is God's command. From the beginning to the end. People refusing to obey God's command and one of them is be saved be baptized etc etc. God is Not neutral before your salvation or after. Heretics flood these platforms because they have no knowledge of the scriptures or they are tainted by false religion which all religions are false. The church is not a building it is when two or more Christians are gathered together having the Holy Spirit. Enough said
LS is so prevalent out there in the so called churches. I was duped by it for years. Believe! That’s it. Admit you are a sinner...believe in Jesus...it’s His great gift...everything after that is service and furthering the Gospel because we love Him and it’s His command.
I got swept into Lordship salvation and it ruined my love for God. The childlike faith and joy I had in Him--which God WANTS in His people--was replaced by fear and self-righteousness. I was worrying every minute as to whether or not I was sinning, and since I was partly responsible for my keeping salvation, you bet I had every reason to boast (unlike Abraham). There was no room for praising God, since I didn't believe I was ever really saved. I wondered if I was "doing enough" to fight sin, whatever that entailed. Lordship salvationists are miserable, bound Christians, back in bondage to the Law. What brings obedience is not our effort, but our allowing God to change us everyday.
Mary Lamb you hypocrite, how can God change you everyday if you do not even listen to him? The person convicting you of sin is the HOLY SPIRIT, not yourself. How can you jump back into the dirt like a pig after being washed by the blood of Jesus ? Repent and sin no more, JESUS SAID IT, NOT ME. How in the world can you boast off of keeping Gods commandments, SPIRITUAL PRIDE WILL TAKE YOU TO HELL! ROMANS 6 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. 15 ¶ What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,fn you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
While I was never a Lordship Salvation adherent per se, I was influenced by similar ideas. It is a prison. On the one hand, you look down on others not living up to what you consider to be righteous. On the other hand, you are constantly looking at yourself knowing that you fall far from the mark. I resented God putting such a heavy burden on me, even though Jesus said that His burden is light. Now, I realize that salvation truly is free, and it has been liberating. I can pursue holiness out of love for Him and not out of fear. If only more people knew about how free God’s grace truly is for those who believe.
Totally agree 👍. It seems like 90% of all so-called churches nowadays have adopted and subscribe to L.S. or at least some parts of it in varying degrees. Lordship salvation is heresy! It is NOT just a different way of the same true gospel. [It is a works-righteousness obedience works for proof of salvation false gospel!]... read that again. Anotherwards...by working to be obedient, one thinks that, That is what Justifies them...their obedience to Christ. In a nutshell, that is Law abiding. And no one is justified by the works of the law. Not even a little bit of law abiding. I was caught up in L.S for a while, yet while I was in it. I knew that something wasn't right. I was truly saved many years before being stumbled by its false doctrine. Why?... because I started listening to Ray Comfort, who is a big Lordship salvationist; but he denies that he is. I even lost a very good friend, or what I thought was a good friend. I just thought he was a on fire christain. It took roughly 5 years (very little pieces to the puzzle, before I really realized that he was a Lordship salvationist) before we ended up getting into a pretty intense debate over the phone. That was the end of our friendship. I still am grieved over that situation. It was in 2020 when we went our separate ways as friends. He blocked me on FB. I was quite shocked, being how close we were previously before things started to really reveal themselves. There are many true born-again Christians who have been deceived by Lordship salvation, because they are not very mature in the Word; which has a lot of reasons, but one reason is because many christians read perverted bible translations. That, and they attend their local church, who the pastor is a Lordship salvationist. Lordship salvation is the falling away from the true faith, unto man's attempt to redeem himself through his own efforts and obedience. No different from the Pharisees and Judiazers of Jesus' time. That's what I call Lordship salvationist...Modern day Pharisees. They put all kinds of demands and burdens on those who have some type of relationship with them...friend, family, congregation, whomever. But they themselves don't measure up to the demands they preach. Hypocrites! Jesus was very angry regarding Hypocrites. Nothing worse than someone who thinks they are righteous by their own commitment, obedience and persevering. But puts heavy burdens on those they interact with. Whuch they themselves don't do.
@@The-GreenHornet oh myy so sorry to hear about your friendship! yes it is dividing people, I had such experience myself. Ray Comfort is totaly LS, I was very saddened to liste to one of his interviews with a young girl who told him she beleives on Jesus for her salvation at which he started “converting” with his 10 commandments gospel!! Well , there s a nee heresy invading internet and Christians around us, 3 of my Christian friends fell for it, even though they have been Christians for 30 and 40 yrs respectively ) one couple and another friend), it s called Hebrew roots, and seems even worse than LS although now when I think about it, my friends (couple) seem to have been somewhat of LS before so…. very devisive doctrine, basically now they are officially law preachers! and I dont feel close to them anymore, I feel sad about it, they have changed. I listen to Andrew Wommack a lot and Joseph Prince because they are true grace preachers! hard to find! God bless!
These theologians come up with all of these divisive terms and it causes a lot of confusion and separation. On one hand separation of the true body from the false is good. But on the other, Satan is the author of confusion so just watch out and read your Bible. KJV hopefully.
Yes, because people often backload works to salvation in one form or another. Put it this way, Jesus tells us we must enter the kingdom as a child, aka child like faith. How can anyone ever explain any type of works or standard (and nobody's standard ever is the same which is the 1st clue.. because whose standard is even correct..) to a child. Imagine trying to explain some manner of standard to a 4 or 6yr old to uphold.
@giovanni545 just because faith might be dead doesn't mean it isn't saved. Jesus died to pay for all sin and even conquered DEATH, he is the one who finishes it.
@@dindermufflin7932 Yes we are save by the mercy of God but after being saved God gave us commandments we must keep for eternal life, remember what YAHUSHA (JESUS) told the rich young ruler when He ask what must He do to have eternal life and YAHUSHA said "keep the commandments"
It should be called Lordship Sanctification. Because once you are saved/born again/believe, then the cop characteristics will be displayed in your life. Your life will reflect what you believe.
Yes!!!! James said it...Faith without works is dead. Simply put...our faith is evident by our works. It not the works that saves us, but our faith in Christ. Naturally we would want to be obedient to our Father. Jesus said be perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect. As a believer we want to share the Gospel with others. We want to serve others because of our love for humanity. Christ ate with the sinners, He came to heal the sick. Even while we were sinners, Christ died for us.
Pam C AMEN our lives should reflect what we believe period. No one can believe in something and never act it out. Believe is not believing on some facts that happened in history. Even the demons believe but they are not saved. Believing is to trust and trusting is an action. You trust with your life. Love is not something you say. It's something you prove. Jesus showed us his love when he laid his life down. And we show that we believe when we trust in Him with our lives. We're not saved by works but if we truly believe we will entrust our life to Jesus. To entrust our lives is to surrender. People may not like what I am saying but Its the truth. BELIEVING IS AN ACTION. Jesus alone saved us through what he did and just need to receive it. Oh yeah and RECEIVING IS AN ACTION. We can't save ourselves but we can receive and believe and literally right after that, the work of God in will be shining and ought to obey. Other wise we don't really believe. I believing my husband loves me because there's evidence and our faith in Jesus works the same way even If He's the one doing the work in us. He promises to complete it and He can't do it if I don't let him. I have to believe In him and me surrendering to his will is the evidence.
context, when james saiys faith without works, thats a reference to christ work on the cross, as person needs to trust in that work, christ work, thats the work part you need, james isn't saying faith without mans works is dead, its faith without christ work is dead, trusting in yourself or some religious crap is a dead faith, all religious people including demons believe that, its trusting in christ finished work, thats the living faith, when you're trusting in the living christ. your works are dead, can't save a fly let alone yourself.
not necessarily, christians are capable of some pretty bad sins like everyone else, looking to behavior is bogus as far as if someone is saved or not, unsaved people can outwardly act good just like some saved people, everyone is capable of sinning plenty and all it takes is one sin to make a person guilty, not "lifestyle of sinning"..one sin, and the bible doesn't teach saved people become more holy, a believer is as holy as they will ever be, now having christ in you does indeed cause a person to conduct themselves differently often and have a positive influence but every believer is in a different place and all are capable of being in a pig pen. the bigger problem is whether someone is truly trusting in christ finished work or not, thats the reason someone goes to hell, by adding their works to christ work, thats call unbelief or "no saving faith".
True faith to christ... Is just like trusting him of your unrighteous inperfect life.... You giving him Glory.. His death is above all... If you are repented and repenting again and again makes him a God of this momments and later and tommorow God doesnt know you the ask again forgiveness.... God is alpha and Omega God knows everything... Un assurance is spiritual blindness...
when anyone makes a true profession of faith in Jesus Christ, they have every intention of never sinning again... but its to impossible never to sin again.. we have a flesh that desperately wants to sin, and we do fall... like the Apostle Paul said.. oh wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from this body of death? thanks God for Christ Jesus our Lord.
every real believer knows they can't be be sinlessly perfect in any practical way and "trying" to be perfect isn't how we live...we live by faith not by sight.
alizarin alexander Alizarin: I agree with you that "every real believer knows they can't be be sinlessly perfect in any practical way", but Jesus didn't make only extreme demands of perfection (He made some of them as well): He said in essence "be a good child by following the golden rule" in Matt 7:12. THAT we can do, PRACTICALLY, genuinely. Jesus reduced the commandments to two -- love Him and love others as ourselves. Following THAT is VERY doable, even if we don't even do that PERFECTLY. Each time we refuse to harm another person, particularly a Christian, we fulfill that commandment, even if we sin in other ways. Thereby we honor Jesus and spare another person harm. Think how nice the world would be, and how Jesus would be honored and we would be fulfilling the Father's Will, if we SIMPLY OBEYED Matt 7:12, whatever other sins we commit.
obeying is believing in christ and his finished work..and as far as "loving your neighbor and loving God" thats still the law and you're not doing that good enough either...you don't love God with all your heart 24/7 and you don't love your neighbor 24/7 either...so you're not keeping any of the law...its not about you, you're not good, jesus never taught that man was "good"...quite the opposite...he taught you needed a perfection to get to heaven period...and so you either have his righteousness or you have nothing...the law is NOT OF FAITH the bible says it also says anything not of faith is sin...so even you loving God and people [which you fall short of every single day] is you trying to keep the law and thats not grace thats sin...someone trying to keep the law for righteousness = Damnation
alizarin alexander You are ignoring what Jesus say MANY times, as well as the moral law written on your heart. You have a ridiculous exegesis and a ridiculous methodology. Jesus NEVER implied "faith ALONE" and your own conscience tells you that. When you meet Jesus, you are going to responsible for what you believed, what you did, and what you counseled others to do.
that's all rubbish...moral law written in our heart? when the bible references "the law written in a believers heart" and that's in Hebrews, its not about lawkeeping...you're not keeping it....a believe understands the truth and purpose of the law....that's what it means...the law shows a person they cannot save themselves, it shows that God is perfect, and that man falls short...that's what its a reference to...if you want to tell me you're keeping the law, i'll just call you a liar cause you're not practically keeping it....it does need to be kept, but its by faith not by works, if you're looking to the law for your holiness you're outside of the grace of God>> Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Jesus found fault with the Pharisees not because of how they lived, but rather because they were unteachable with regard to their need for a Saviour. The tax collectors, 'sinners', publicans and prostitutes did not have a great walk either, but they found acceptance in Jesus' eyes because they knew they had a need for a Saviour. The Pharisees did not believe in the high standards demanded by the Law, but felt comfortable in lowering its standard to a level they could achieve. God bless.
Absolutely correct… I was in a system like that when I first became a Christian. I was constantly analyzing my works. It made me feel that I wasn’t good enough.
Saint Charcoal : amen. I was born again last year. I used to love my sin, plan my sin, and look forward to my sin. God changed me. He transformed me and all glory goes to Him! Because of Gods work in me, I now hate sin and hope I never sin again. It is comforting to know that according to 1 John, if we do sin that we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus. And also that if we walk according to the Spirit we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Acts 3:19 is one of my favorite verses. Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.
Yes, our actions draw our attention so easily: living by the Spirit, now, we gain and exercise Jesus' spiritual eyes, to look to him and others, for whom we live, not just ourselves anymore.
Lordship salvation/Calvinism keeps churches full of tithers and free labor, in other words, slaves. Free grace salvation keeps churches full of cheerful givers and grateful servants. Boasting is of the finished work of Jesus on the cross, not of our works. Make no mistake, the gospel is being replaced with an ancient business model created by satan himself. It is used to control, oppress and make merchandise of people. The truth shall set you free.
One of my favorite preachers (J Vernon Mcgee) referred to it as "Commitment Salvation". God asks the unsaved to do 1 thing, and that is believe in him as savior, to be saved. God does NOT ask the unsaved to do anything. He does not ask them to live a good life, because they have denied the truth. It's so clear and so simple. Salvation is first CONFESSING Jesus as Lord. LSers love using the term "Easy Believism" or "Cheap Grace". These terms have one purpose but to self-righteously push people into believing they are better than other Christians who still have problems.
OK Chad, but what did Jesus mean about "take up your cross and follow Me"? What cross is that? Apparently not doing anything different -- just "believing in Jesus" with no discernable parameters. What do all the warning verses in Paul mean? I know you're a big Paul guy, and he usually speaks of "salvation" in the future tense and has many 'if you hold fast' constructions and even says (I think) that it is possible that he himself will make shipwreck of his own salvation. You just told me that types 2-3 soils in the Sower Parable (my favorite) were unsaved. Why? How did their non-enduring faith not save them? Their faith was real, while it lasted -- or are you defining "faith" in some weird way. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, you AND YOUR HOUSEHOLD." Since you are such an expert exegete who can explain the Bible seemlessly, what gives here, on the types 2-3 soils and the "AND YOUR HOUSEHOLD" salvation plan? You've called me a Mormon, and now promoted me to a Catholic, but I'm a Lordship Salvation Trinitarian Arminian who does not believe in OSAS. I'm curious you can pick a fight with THIS heretic, even, you guys sound identical to a Lordship Salvation Trinitarian Arminian who does not believe in OSAS.
Chad Daniels We are discussing the important matter of the nature of salvation -- and I think there's a big hole in yours. I do not reject "justification by faith" but I definitely doubt "justification by faith ALONE". Do you have ANY coherent answer for my question about the blatant sinner who (really did) "give his life to Christ in college"? WHAT do you tell them, and are they unsaved "type-2" soil or not?
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. gal 2-16.. Any questions? By faith and faith alone we are justified
thelumber Jack True. But how I understand it is after we are justified by faith we also commit our lives to the Lord and allow him to live in us as according to Galatians 2:20. Christ lives in us and any changes that take place in our life, is truly performed by Christ working in us and not we ourselves. That’s where He is our Lord. So any credit and glory for our good works is given to God. We should never take credit for our good works. But the beauty of the gospel is how our lives are transformed from our old works (conduct) and now we are new creatures 1Cor. 5:17. So we are justified by Christ’s work on the cross and are sanctified as well. Our sanctification is expressed in our daily living (works). We were created for good works (Eph. 2:10). That’s how I understand the gospel message. We must overcome all sinful works in our lives as in the message to the 7 churches in Rev. Chapters 2 and 3. This theme is very clear in scripture. As long as we are trusting in our Lord and Savior Christ and His work of salvation, and not in ourselves then we are allowing Him to “save” and sanctify us every day. Otherwise we we can fall into the trap of living presumptuously in our old sinful life, stop trusting in His justification and ultimately lose our crown (Rev. 3:11). In other words, if the gospel doesn’t have power to change our lives- then where’s its saving strength? If we continue to live the same old life after conversion, then the gospel has not been effective. Not intending to be controversial, just explaining my understanding of the gospel. Thanks for listening and God bless.
If you believe in the Gospel that means you understand it which means you understand that Jesus is Lord of all and you live accordingly by doing your best to love and obey him. You pick up your cross daily (die to self) and follow him because you trust and believe. Will you sin sin? Yes, but if you are not convicted when you do that is a red flag that you need to examine yourself.
Will he sin deliberately? I hope not if he professes to know God. But and if he does, and is not overcome, let that sinner repent and confess his sin to God, who is faithful and just to forgive, and let that forgiven man henceforth moritfy the deeds of his body.
studd11 FALSE ACCUSER! James 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh NOT the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God. James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and BRIDLETH NOT HIS TONGUE, but deceiveth his own heart,THIS MAN'S RELIGION IS IN VAIN. Matthew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. James 3:6 And THE TONGUE IS A FIRE, a world of INIQUITY: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of HELL. Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it ANYTHING that DEFILETH, neither whatsoever worketh ABOMINATION, or maketh a LIE: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
studd11 Have you read your post to Mellomoon? It sounds like you are the one casting stones. Please check the log in your own eye first before condemning others to hell. The bible is very clear that is Jesus' job, not ours.
This is the big problem with the Lordship Salvationist. How many sins does it take to lose your Salvation, and how many works does it take to Maintain your Salvation. It's a dead end question cause both statements are purely fictional. It takes no sins to lose Salvation except outright rejection and disbelief of Christ. But in that case the person was never truly saved. That is what is meant by Blasphemy of the Spirit. You reject Christ altogether. Now it is clear we the believers will all be judged at the Bema seat of Christ for works done good or bad, and we will all be saved as through Fire. So if too many sins can lose your salvation, then there is no point of Bema seat of Christ, cause then Jesus doesn't have to judge us for the bad works, but only the Good. But He says we will be judged for both. Therefore even if the believer dies while living the carnal christian life, they will still be saved as through fire for works done good or bad. Works done for Christ after receiving Salvation will be rewarded by Jesus at Bema seat. Those works didn't save you, or maintain your salvation, but they may earn you Crowns by the Lord Jesus himself. We are inherently evil, all of us. We are no good and are natures are despicable before the Holy God. We sin constantly, even when we don't think we are sinning. There is no end to are sins day and night, but the believer now has the power to overcome the sins of the flesh. But whether the believer ever lives a victorious life in Christ, has nothing to do with their FREE GIFT SALVATION, but they may not receive Crown from the Lord at Bema seat of Christ, but will still be saved as through fire. The people that work and labor to earn their way to heaven through works after accepting Christ, or actually denying His free gift of Eternal life. God saved are wretched souls by His pure Grace through Jesus Christ and His blood. So let God handle the work of helping that Christian live a life of Victory in Christ. Not works deciding this Victory and Salvation, but the power of the Almighty God.
lordship salvation is a heresie. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Just so, being thus justified by faith, and the next verse completes the story, the context: "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."
Then explain to us why Corinthians was written? Did the Corinthians just just automatically do everything right? Or did they need to be taught how to put on the new man? If what you’re saying was true, we would have no need for paul to instruct us how to put on the NEW man.
You are quoting the Torah, or the law. Jesus came to fulfill the law as we are no longer under the old covenant. All you must do is believe. And it’s not easy to accept such a simple message.
@@GoyimNewsNetwork John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. ✝️ John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
This is very true, amen...faith in Christ will produce fruits. It seems you understand that the fruits that will be produced will come from Christ; working in our lives, and not from our own works. Not only is it essential it can't be separated.
Are those who believe in Lordship salvation putting themselves under the law? It seems like they are. Because they are in a sense relying on themselves and what they do for their salvation. Therefor they are not really saved. Just a thought / question.
The Jewish ceremonial law (animal sacrifices, and cleansing rituals) no longer applies to the church. But don't confuse this with God's moral law. Matthew 5:17-18 tells us that Jesus came to fulfill (i.e. take the penalty of), but not abolish God's moral law (i.e. God's holy standard for living, exemplified in the admonition to love God with all our heart, and love our neighbor as ourself, found in Mark 12:28-31 and John 15:17). Lordship salvation proponents, are not claiming that their works save them. Only belief in Jesus as Savior brings justification. However, we also see that this salvation frees us from bondage to sin into bondage to Christ (Romans 6:17-18, 6:22, 7:4-6, 14:7-8, 1 Cor. 6:19-20, John 10:29, 2 Corinthians 5:14-15, Mark 8:34-38, John 12:25-26). Note in these verses that we aren't free from bondage to sin, into some blissful do-as-you-please freedom... we are freed to serve Jesus with our lives. Obedience is concrete proof of belief.
A challenging issue: so, Jesus freed us from the condemnation due our sinfulness and we then experience his Spirit and his life each day as we walk with him by faith, don't we.
This one verse in Luke 7:50 absolutely refutes Lordship Salvation and any works based gospel. Luke 7:50 - And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath SAVED thee; go in peace. Notice Jesus did not say, “Thy faith and works saved thee.”
+J Pep Yes, even in the Old Testament people were saved by faith and not works. That's why the apostle Paul quoted Genesis 15:6 in Romans 4:2-6 in defense of the gospel.
@om04 You are conflating Jesus ministry of healing people's BODIES with his ministry of saving their SOULS. If you are going to make that connection then what about this scripture: …6 When Jesus had said this, He spat on the ground, made some mud, and applied it to the man’s eyes. 7 Then He told him, “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (which means Sent). So the man WENTand WASHED, and came back seeing. (John 9:6-7). By your hermeneutic, this man WAS saved by WORKS since he (in OBEDIENCE to Jesus' command) went and washed His eyes out before he was healed. There are more examples like this but I will not cite them here. The point is that you were using healing as a metaphor for salvation. Although His miracles revealed His Messianic office (Matthew 8:17) and through them, He invited people to have faith in Him, PHYSICAL HEALING, in an of itself, had no salvific value. What DID save was the Gospel that Jesus preached. This was the seed of life which the "Sower Sowed" and brought forth the new life. Paul said this about the Message: 6 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for SALVATION to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, then to the Greek. 17 For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that COMES BY FAITH from start to finish, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”… (Romans 1:16-17) Throughout His ministry on earth, Jesus was "reconciling the world to Himself" He did this by calling people to repent and believe in him. Those who did, received pardon and forgiveness. A cleansed heart has been made righteous and therefore acceptable to God. Jesus did not tell people to meritorious deeds to make up for their sins. What He did demand is that they cease PRACTICING as a LIFESTYLE which is the same thing as coming into OBEDIENCE. And to her [the adulterous woman] Jesus said, “Neither I do condemn you. Go and SIN NO MORE from now on.” (John 8:11) Afterward, Jesus found the man and told him, “See, you are well again. STOP SINNING or something worse may happen to you” (John 5:14-15).
Ephesians 2:8-10 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast.For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
I know one thing. Sarcasm, condescension and insults are not the Lords way. 2 Timothy 2:24-25 "And the servant of the Lord must be gentle to all men, apt to teach, patient and meek........"
Kat Henderson Hey Kat, thanks for the comment. Thanks be to our God that He is nothing like us, and His spirit is discernibly Good, full of humility and Love... Love, Lynn
This message is so true I came out from your truly John MacArthur the King of Lordship salvation he almost ruined my marriage do to the legalism that I was practicing this was do to a combination of John MacArthur's teaching and my head injury but thanks to Charles Ryrie's book so great salvation I learned or I should say relearned the real gospel is and now me and my family are doing way better and God has produced some good fruit in my life and I didn't even try lol as well as a few big trails in my life that has brought me closer to God praise the Lord I love Jesus so much more
John MacArthur does preaching for money and power over the less intelligent who fall for it and people are to stupid to see it glad you finally see the truth.
People love to make it a special club, its really pride. Only one person has the right to improve the quality of your person, only one person determines if you need change, the author and finisher.
Amen. The LS teaching brings back our dependence on obedience to God's commands and on living holy. Whereas Christ came because that method did not work. A method was needed which would de-link man's performance from obtaining salvation. Thank God, the salvation offered by grace through faith in Jesus Christ rests solely on the merits of our Saviour. We have this assurance, and totally rest on His finished work. All the work that we ever do is an offshoot of the salvation we already possess.
WITHOUT FAITH, WITHOUT OBEDIENCE, WITHOUT MAKING JESUS THE LORD OF YOUR LIFE (*I Cor. 12.3*), THERE ABSOLUTELY IS NO SALVATION. BUT WE SLIP, WE FALL, THERE IS NO SINLESS PERFECTION WHILE WE ARE ON THIS EARTH (*Psa. 37.23, 24*)- CHRIST KNEW THAT, SO HE PAID FOR HIS PEOPLE'S SINS PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE. BUT HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE, DO YO LOVE JESUS ENOUGH TO HAVE A BURNING DESIRE TO PLEASE HIM (*John 14.15*) AND DO YOU FOLLOW THE SPIRIT TO TRY AND ACCOMPLISH THAT DESIRE (*James 2.14-17* - PROOF OF SALVATION, NOT GAINING SALVATION)? WITHOUT THAT BURNING DESIRE TO PLEASE THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL, THERE AGAIN IS NO SALVATION. TRUE SAINTS WORK OUT OF LOVE, NOT OUT OF DUTY. MAY THE LORD HELP US ALL!
+Sam Abebe THANKS! BTW, YOU HAVE HURT ME TO THE QUICK - OHHHHHHHHH! ROFL! NO, Sam, I AM NOT A JEHONKERS WINKER - MY USER NAME IS A PLAY ON AN OVERLY MISUSED AND MISINTERPRETED HEBREW WORD. :^)
jehovahuponyou haha great, phew! Those guys are dangerous in deceiving people. And yea I know Jehovah is one of Gods many names such as Elohim and Yah/Jah I just had to check :) God bless you :)
Google+ has taken over RU-vid so I can't find the comment you just sent me. However, I do not necessarily "reject" Paul but I definitely have doubts about him and about how he is interpreted. --Maybe he is a false apostle who bullied his way to dominance in the early church (I don't believe this, but there is maybe a
Can you please describe what calvinists believe needs to happen for a person to be saved? And then can you please describe what you believe is the correct way? Just to mark a difference.
eliza ciopasiu Your comment - " Can you please describe what calvinists believe needs to happen for a person to be saved? And then can you please describe what you believe is the correct way? Just to mark a difference." My comment - Calvinism teaches that a person cannot believe and be saved unless God had "predestined" that person in eternity past to be saved. That is, the person has to be among the "elect chosen few" and also they believe that God has to infuse a person with the "gift of faith" enabling the person to believe the gospel. They believe that a person is not saved because the person has believed the gospel, but that the person is saved first before they can believe the gospel. They teach that "regeneration precedes faith" by way of monergistic means because they deny the free will of man. Calvinists/Lordship Salvationists teach that if a person is truly saved, that the person will show "evidence" in the form of commitment, obedience, faithfulness, and perseverance to the end of one's life and that there must be a "change" in lifestyle in habits, etc. Any person in the mind of the Calvinist/Lordship Salvationist who claims to be Christian, but then does not measure up to their "criteria" and who does not possess the above mentioned attributes are quickly dismissed and written off as "unsaved." Calvinists/Lordship Salvation breeds pride, Pharisaical self-righteousness, legalism, and judgmentalism and they are chronic works and fruits inspectors. They are quick to question a Christian's salvation if they see beer or cigarettes in a Christian's shopping cart at the supermarket. They never stop to think that maybe this Christian has beer because that Christian is making beer battered fish or chicken that particular day, or stop to think that maybe the cigarettes are for a neighbor who is handicapped or disabled. There are true Christians who smoke and drink, but that is not an indication of being "unsaved". I mean after all, C.S. Lewis was a Christian writer and a smoker. They are also quick to write off Christians as unsaved if the Christian is living in sin like sexual immorality. Samson is a true man of God, and at the same time a fornicator - Judges 16:1, then commits a simultaneous murder/suicide in Judges 16:28-30, but Samson is listed as a Godly man of faith in Hebrews 11:32. Samson would not be listed there if he was unsaved. This of course, produces uncertainty because it produces chronic introspection where Calvinists/Lordship people keep looking to their works and the works of others for assurance and as "evidence" that they're saved. Many Calvinists including the ones of yesteryear who were the Puritans had no assurance of their salvation and many were not sure if they were among the "elect chosen few". Many literally died on their deathbeds not knowing and they had to wait until AFTER they died to find out because they were never sure if they were "good" enough or did enough "works" to make it into heaven. The Bible teaches that all a person needs to do in order to be saved is to BELIEVE on the finished work of Christ that Christ has already finished at the cross - John 3:16, John 5:24, John 19:30, Acts 16:30-31, Ephesians 1:13. Eternal life is a free gift from God, but it is not an automatic guarantee that the person will be committed, obedient, faithful, and persevering.
Wow...I marvel at the power of God's word, to make manifest the thoughts and intents of the heart...the man speaking in this video speaks of God's word, and of the doctrine of Jesus Christ, and then says that in his estimation, it is legalism, and denies it completely. "I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight." "Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" "The unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God." "Sinners shall not stand in the congregation of the righteous." "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." It is nothing short of AMAZING how that reprobate men like this can speak of God's word, and then deny it in the same breath...and still imagine that they know him! Praise the Lord! \o/ !
So I was at Walmart and the manager there saw me checking out and grabbed all my stuff on the little place where the plastic bags are and viciously threw them around... probably because of my Lordship salvation stance. That my friend is the devil manifesting and if Jesus isn't Lord of your soul and body.... you will have devils in your body or soul. I was working in a crusade and Christians were being prayed for. I walked up to a young Christian lady and she started vibrating. Like small but very quick and noticeable vibrations. I asked the Lord, "Lord, what is this?" And the Spirit of God said, "It's a devil. take authority over it!" So I said, "IN the Name of Jesus Christ ... come out of her!" Her body went backward until her back was parallel to the floor and she suddenly came up and projectile vomited towards me. This was in Abilene, Texas. I've preached in South Africa and Zimbabwe and seen similar things. If a minister were to "pray without ceasing" for just 3 days straight. No TV. No talking to anyone else. Just discipline their tongue and body to seek God alone. They would start to see similar things. Even in the US. Even ministers have devils in the US. They might have the most. Whatever that does not come under Christ's Lordship is susceptible to demonic infiltration. If you do not discipline your body, you can end up with a tumor or an ulcer or a sickness or infirmity.
Bible Verses that Lordship Salvation people cannot STAND: "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8-9 "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." Galatians 2:21 "For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh..." Romans 8:3 "So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy." Romans 9:16 "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace." Romans 11:6 "You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." Galatians 5:4 "....because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction...." Romans 3:20-30 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." Romans 4:1-7 "....nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified." Galatians 2:16 "....who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity..." 2 Timothy 1:9 "....But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit..." Titus 3:4-5 "....because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20
The account of the demon possessed man in Mark 5:18-20 who was healed and SAVED by Jesus debunks Lordship Salvation's false teaching that one cannot be saved unless one makes Jesus as "Lord". Mark 5:18-20 - 18 And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil PRAYED HIM THAT HE MIGHT BE WITH HIM. 19 HOWBEIT JESUS SUFFERED HIM NOT, but saith unto him, GO HOME to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee. 20 And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel. The man who was demon possessed and healed by Jesus obviously wanted to follow Jesus as Lord as the context of verse 18 clearly indicates, BUT Jesus told him "NO", but that he should go home and tell his family and friends how God has been gracious to him. This same account is recorded in Luke 8:38-39: 38 Now the man out of whom the devils were departed BESOUGHT HIM THAT HE MIGHT BE WITH HIM, BUT JESUS SENT HIM AWAY, saying, 39 RETURN TO THINE OWN HOUSE, and shew how great things God hath done unto thee. And he went his way, and published throughout the whole city how great things Jesus had done unto him. From these 2 accounts, it is obvious that this healed man who is no doubt SAVED WANTED TO FOLLOW JESUS AND BE HIS DISCIPLE AND MAKE HIM LORD, BUT Jesus said "NO", thus debunking Lordship Salvation.
How can a false gospel have good intentions? The ONLY gospel that has good intentions is the one Jesus Christ told us about. If you believe that He is God, that He died for your sins and was resurrected 3 days later, you are saved. Any other gospel is FALSE and has NO good intentions.
+Cherubim Church If you do what Jesus said you will also obey Him. What does it mean to "believe" in Christ? It means that we also OBEY HIm! That is what truly believe in Him means.
Jimmy Bergman No it doesn't. To believe in Him, is to trust that He paid for our sins. If we had to obey Him, it would be lordship salvation, which is a works and which will land you in HELL.
Cherubim Church You will be one of those who said "Lord Lord" to Jesus but did not obeyed Him, you will go to Hell if you don't work for His kingdom. It is work based salvation that leads to heaven. And here you see evidence that believe in Him means we also Obey Him: John 3:36 English Standard Version (ESV) "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."
+Jimmy Bergman When a person first believes that Jesus Christ died on the cross for their sins and then was buried and arose on the third day and ascended into heaven, and then there becomes this hunger and then they want to read more of God's word because God presses on their heart, which eventually leads to obedience and doing what is right, but we all stumble and fall because we're not perfect, all sin and have come short of the glory of God. Thank God for sending his Son!
Kat Henderson Many believe that Jesus will cover up for all our sins - that we are all sinners and cannot stop sinning. But the Bible says that Jesus can make us free from sin. Jesus said: "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."- John 8:36 (KJV) Bible also says: "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."- Romans 6:18 (NIV) If we truly want to be free from sin, Jesus can help us. Without Jesus help you can't be free from sin. And those who willfully continue to sin, and believe that Jesus will cover up for them are on their way to hell if they do not repent. Jesus says that we must stop sinning: "Go, and sin no more."- John 8:11 (KJV) With Jesus we can do all things: "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. " - Philippians 4:13 (KJV) Willful sin leads to hell: "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," - Hebrews 10:26 (KJV) -What is willful sin? It's for example when you fornicate, when you watch a violent or other pervert movie, when you steal, when you masturbate, when you go in a bus without pay for it, when you curse etc. If you choose to sin you will go to hell and Jesus blood will NOT cover those sins. God Bless you
Derk Simon “For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”” John 6:40
Lilac Milkshake says the Bible no where. Jesus said: “If ye love me, keep my commandments.” He is not saying that that is something you will do like a robot, but he is admonishing his children to keep his commandments out of love for him. Like a father giving his children chores, and then telling them to fulfill the tasks out of love, not necessity.
@@brandontaylor2541 The word "Believe" is pistis which is much different than the English word believe John 3 16 and the verse you quoted aren't true in the English, but are fine in the Greek
What's it going to hurt to do good works? Nothing as long as you are trusting in the finished work of the corss alone for salvation, but if you are partially trusting in works for salvation (e.g. I'm going to do good works just in case faith alone is not enough), you will not be saved. And there really IS a lot of debate over this issue. What is the gospel? Is it surrender my life and never have any assurance (as was my experience) or is it faith alone in Christ alone?
Calvinism/Lordship Salvation is based on the following false teachings of man that have been handed down for centuries that have been forcibly imposed into the Bible, in seminaries and in many churches: 1) Calvin's "Institutes of the Christian Religion" 2) The Westminster Confession of Faith 3) The London Confession of Faith 4) The Canons of Dort 5) The Lambeth Articles 6) Augustine's perverse writings entitled, "The City of God" Then we have Arminian/Lordship Salvation which is based upon the following: 1) The "Remonstrance" 2) The "Opinions of the Remonstrants". It is the above 8 writings of man that has utterly perverted mainstream Christianity causing much confusion and deception and damning many souls to hell. Colossians 2:8 - Beware lest any man spoil you through PHILOSOPHY AND VAIN DECEIT, after THE TRADITION OF MEN, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
I believe it was in the book of Acts where we 1st heard the word gospel. And Paul says that we are to preach the gospel. The book of Romans does speak about the grace, and how it is given freely. He who preaches the gospel shall live by the gospel. That's faith. In the New Testament it also goes on to say that anyone who does good works to be saved is cursed for they have to do everything in the Law to be saved. Anyone who follows the law for salvation has made the Crucifixion of no effect. God bless you brothers and sisters
Faith is the sole instrument that receives justification. After people are justified, God ensures that they will be changed. They will obey God as a consequence of receiving eternal life.
Jacob Becomes Israel What role DOES obedience play in your theology? I thought even "faith alone" guys like you would agree that believers "obey God as a consequence of receiving eternal life."
The Bible does teach lordship salvation, though. The way to life is narrow, and the way to destruction is wide. You CANNOT be saved if you don't submit all of your life to Christ. You are either 100% for Christ or 0% for Him at all!
+Anthony Hong LORDSHIP SALVATION DEBUNKED. The account of the demon possessed man in Mark 5:18-20 who was healed and SAVED by Jesus debunks Lordship Salvation's false teaching that one cannot be saved unless one makes Jesus as "Lord". Mark 5:18-20 - 18 And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil PRAYED HIM THAT HE MIGHT BE WITH HIM. 19 HOWBEIT JESUS SUFFERED HIM NOT, but saith unto him, GO HOME to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee. 20 And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel. The man who was demon possessed and healed by Jesus obviously wanted to follow Jesus as Lord as the context of verse 18 clearly indicates, BUT Jesus told him "NO", but that he should go home and tell his family and friends how God has been gracious to him. This same account is recorded in Luke 8:38-39: 38 Now the man out of whom the devils were departed BESOUGHT HIM THAT HE MIGHT BE WITH HIM, BUT JESUS SENT HIM AWAY, saying, 39 RETURN TO THINE OWN HOUSE, and shew how great things God hath done unto thee. And he went his way, and published throughout the whole city how great things Jesus had done unto him. From these 2 accounts, it is obvious that this healed man who is no doubt SAVED WANTED TO FOLLOW JESUS AND BE HIS DISCIPLE AND MAKE HIM LORD, BUT Jesus said "NO", thus debunking Lordship Salvation.
Lie, a pornstar how simple believed the real truth gospel witch is, believe Jesus Christ died on the cross and ressuretion agian go to heaven Period. Stop call God a lier, you end up in hell!
Keith Clark so I guess I’ll have to bust my ass trying to follow the law, that I know for a fact leads to damnation on the other side. yeah, ok good luck with that buddy. Believing in Christ as your lord and savior and acknowledging all the things he has done for you is what saves you. Faith in Christ Jesus leads to good works. But good works alone for salvation is like a dirty rag in the eyes of God.
Hey @@kingcrashplays Sorry for the misunderstanding. You are correct, our salvation in not depended on our efforts of obeying the law. Sometimes I'm not very good at articulating things. Matt. 7 is referring to though who tried to get to Heaven based on their works. And those individuals acknowledged (not trust) Jesus as Lord. Of course, as you stated, it's not on our efforts, because Christ already took care of it. Hope that clears things up.
Thankyou for addressing this issue. I've grown to hate the expression:" If He's not Lord of all He's not Lord at all". Who comes up with these ridiculous clichés? All they do is put God's people in bondage. I agree, it is sad and drives people away from God.
Romans 16:17 Now I BESEECH YOU, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and AVOID them. 18 For they that are such SERVE NOT our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches DECEIVE the hearts of the simple. 2 Corinthians 5:15 And that HE DIED FOR ALL, that THEY which LIVE should NOT henceforth LIVE UNTO THEMSELVES, but UNTO HIM which died for them, and rose again. Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and HIM ONLY shalt thou SERVE. Matthew 6:24 No man can SERVE two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot SERVE GOD and mammon. John 12:26 If any man SERVE ME, let him FOLLOW ME; and where I am, there shall also MY SERVANT be: if any man SERVE ME, him will my Father honour. Colossians 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye SERVE the Lord Christ. Hebrews 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may SERVE God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: 29 For our God [is] a consuming fire. This man is his own god!! He doesn't believe that he is to live in OBEDIENCE unto our LORD and Saviour!!!! 1 Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be DISOBEDIENT, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being DISOBEDIENT: whereunto also they were appointed. Titus 1:16 They PROFESS that they know God; but in WORKS they DENY him, being abominable, and DISOBEDIENT, and unto every GOOD WORK reprobate.
studd11 You are a false accuser. Please, tell me of any SERVANT of a KING that did not serve his king, and did not suffer for such DISOBEDIENCE. Jesus Christ is the Lord, maybe not of your life, but that does not change that HE IS KING and Lord and he will judge YOU according to your WORKS. Whether they be of RIGHTEOUSNESS or of INIQUITY. What kind of FRUIT do your WORKS produce?? Luke 12:46 The lord of that SERVANT will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion WITH THE UNBELIEVERS. (in HELL) Matthew 22:13 Then said the KING to the SERVANTS, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. HUMBLE YOURSELF before the Lord. Hebrews 6:12 That ye BE NOT SLOTHFUL, but followers of them who through FAITH and PATIENCE inherit the promises. Matthew 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou WICKED and SLOTHFUL SERVANT, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and DO not the things which I say? Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven. I am aware that salvation does not come from "works". Salvation comes from the blood that was shed for us. 1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. 1 Corinthians 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the SERVANTS of men. Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. 1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man DEFILE the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple YE ARE. 1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and YE ARE NOT YOUR OWN? Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth FROM THE HEART; and they defile the man. Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall DENY me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in WORKS they DENY him, being abominable, and DISOBEDIENT, and unto every GOOD WORK reprobate. Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should LIVE soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Acts 3:19 REPENT ye therefore, and be CONVERTED, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; Matthew 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for THE TREE IS KNOWN BY HIS FRUIT. Matthew 7:20 " Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." ~Jesus
Mellomoon Haze We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall, and our sins sweep us away like the wind. ISAIH 64:6.....GOD saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God: Ephisians 2:8.......because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.....Romans 10:9.........For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.…Ephisians 2:8................Do you get it bro, your Salavtion is PURELY BY GOD'S GRACE THROUGH YOUR FAITH. Just because you pay tithes and another Christian doesn't, at this point in their walk with Christ, does not mean they lose Salvation, otherwise Salvation becomes a work that requires merit to be saved.... Look buddy, you are a sinner through in through. You sin constantly and when you don't even know it. Your entire fleshly Mindset is sin. Only righteousness in you is Jesus Christ. So you can't say you are more worthy of HEAVEN than another brother just cause you in your opinion don't think he's as spiritually mature as you. We you think like that, you have already sinned in your heart against the brother and God..... Romans 7:14-25 he says, For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.For that which I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not wish to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that it is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which indwells me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the wishing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish. But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. .
Bema Seat of Christ is where we are judged for works good or bad, but still saved as through fire. Unsaved judged at Great White Throne Judgement. I know people like you Pharisee......You are probably an ugly homely no girl skinny little bitter no attention loser. So you use your Christian Faith to make yourself feel better than others, instead of trying to help them. Like the guy who buys a PIT BULL cause he is too weak to intimidate people on his own, and need a tough dog to do it. You use Christianity to elevate yourself to super prideful levels, then you can go around telling other Christians how evil and sinful they are, and how they lost salvation. You are worse than the satanic anti-christ Pope. At least we know where he stands, but you hide yourself among Christians, then lash out at them telling them how bad they are to make yourself feel good. I know you are just a dork with no friends, no girl, and no attention but the mirror you look at ever day you get up. You need to repent and humble yourself before the Lord Jesus, or God will do it for you, and the Lord's chastisement isn't the most pleasant either, but necessary for people like yourself.
studd11 Your wrath towards me is from the pit of your heart. Dark and ugly, convicted of your sins that I do not know of, nor have i ever accused you of. All I did was post SCRIPTURES!!!! Blind man, your own conscience condemns you yet you struggle to justify your sin by clinging to only half the scriptures. I forgot about abiding by this verse.... Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. I have no more to post to you demon. I rebuke you in Jesus' name!
Wrong. There is no such thing as a "true saving faith". You are backloading faith by saying there MUST be works attached. There is either faith in Christ, or there isn't. Most people do not have faith in Christ because they think their works are related to their salvation. You can not believe in Christ and your own works just like you can not believe in Christ and Vishnu.
This is why dispensationalism is of utmost importance. People think it's not doctrine, yet it's directly mentioned in Ephesians 3:2 that there is a dispensation of the grace of God. When someone understands dispensation, they will understand it's faith and faith alone for salvation. They will understand when they see the term "faith without works is dead" is James speaking to people whom are already saved, not people who are not saved, that's key. They will understand when gentiles are being spoken to vs Jews, vs the body of Christ. If people don't understand (or reject) dispensationalism, they essentially take all of scripture and toss it in a blender and make it apply to everybody. One cannot do this. All of the Bible is for the believer but all the Bible is *not* about the Believer. Those who think it's about the believer as well assume all scripture is just referring to them and that is a huge issue.
John in 1 John 3:8-10 clarified this plainly 8 𝗛𝗘 𝗪𝗛𝗢 𝗦𝗜𝗡𝗦 𝗜𝗦 𝗢𝗙 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗗𝗘𝗩𝗜𝗟, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 𝗪𝗛𝗢𝗘𝗩𝗘𝗥 𝗛𝗔𝗦 𝗕𝗘𝗘𝗡 𝗕𝗢𝗥𝗡 𝗢𝗙 𝗚𝗢𝗗 𝗗𝗢𝗘𝗦 𝗡𝗢𝗧 𝗦𝗜𝗡, for His seed remains in him; and 𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗢𝗧 𝗦𝗜𝗡, because he has been born of God. 10 𝗜𝗡 𝗧𝗛𝗜𝗦 the 𝗖𝗛𝗜𝗟𝗗𝗥𝗘𝗡 𝗢𝗙 𝗚𝗢𝗗 and the 𝗖𝗛𝗜𝗟𝗗𝗥𝗘𝗡 𝗢𝗙 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗗𝗘𝗩𝗜𝗟 are 𝗠𝗔𝗡𝗜𝗙𝗘𝗦𝗧: Whoever does not practice righteousness 𝗜𝗦 𝗡𝗢𝗧 𝗢𝗙 𝗚𝗢𝗗 Is it hard to understand? Yes, for those who love their sin more than God, like Paul says in 2 Timothy 3:4 "lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God" God said: "be holy for I am holy" and "without holiness NO ONE will see the Lord" , It is simple message, only wicked people will twist the scripture to make doctrines of demons that itch their ears to their own destruction just like Peter said in his letter and finally: MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE AND THEY FOLLOW ME, You don't follow - you are NOT His sheep, simply How can you be saved and rebel against Jesus own words? Ridiculous...
Im new to all of this debate. The first ive heard of this was yesterday. Quite frankly it seems silly to me that a debate exists. The bible says i show you my faith through my works and faith without works is dead. Someone says a prayer and calls jesus his homeboy but has a heart longing for the world was never saved. God says we are a new creation. How can someone claim to be saved while having no moral dilema in hosting orgies at their house? Its not that commitment, perserverance, etc make you saved but that one who is saved will be committed and perservere (those who perservere till the end shall be saved).
Why do you call me Lord and do not the things I tell you? Luke 6:46. If you love me, keep my commandments John 14:15. Jesus says we must follow Him, Matthew 16:24 We must persevere in our obedience to Christ in order to make it to heaven according to Jesus in Revelation 2:11. Revelation 22:14 says we only have legal right to enter heaven if we obey Jesus. So if you hate Jesus, you will disobey Him, just like Lucifer did. "For if we sin willfully after having knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins," Hebrews 10:26.
Cleveland Street Preachers The Bible way to heaven man is a sinner in Gods eyes we deserve punishment but because God loves us he gave his only begotten son Jesus to die for our sins do you believe that Jesus Christ paid for ALL sins yes or no
Cleveland Street Preachers you took Hebrew 10:26 out of context. He’s speaking to Jews who were still about the animal sacrifice system. Every Christian has sinned willfully after being born again. And if you won’t admit that then your doing yourself a disservice.
Acts 16:30-31 KJV And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? [31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
we don't need to make Jesus our Lord in order to be saved but seeing him as our Lord and beginning to obey him as such is a consequence of being saved. If someone is resisting his Lordship then how can they be claiming to trust him? in a sense the first step in the gospel is to recognize the need of a saviour what follows next is a lifetime of recognizing that saviour as the Lord - and not always getting this right but repenting and confessing each time we get it wrong and praising him when we find ourselves getting it right - because it is not us but the Holy Spirit in us who is leading our obedience to the King.
How I interpret both Lordship salvation: I am saved because Jesus Christ died for me and I accept Him as my Savior and repent of my sins. I turn from wickedness and desire Him and love Him and want to be closer to Him and do not want Him to see me in sin and unclean, even though I know I can never be clean while on this earth I want to follow Him and turn from all sin and never sin again. If I do sin I feel bad because I have sinned against my eternal God and ask Him for forgiveness, and He will always forgive me when I stumble. There is evidence that I am saved through "by their fruits you will know them". It does not mean that the fruit I produce gives me salvation, it is the fruit that I produce is evidence of my salvation. I cannot work my way into heaven, and there is no sin God will not forgive me of if I commit, but that is not an excuse to sin my guts out. Free grace: I accept Jesus died for me and I am saved because it is a free gift. I can do whatever I want now and nobody can take my salvation away from me. If I want to be a fornicator, liar, thief, homosexual and sleep with 100 different people then its all good because I accepted Jesus. If I turn away from my sins and "repent" then that means I am doing a work to be saved, and the bible says "we are saved through faith lest any man boast". So there you have it. I am saved and there is nothing I can ever do that will take it away from me. Many will say Lord Lord and claim to knew Him and will be sent to hell. God isn't going to send someone to hell because they decided to repent of their sins and follow God and do His will. To believe such a thing is satanic. There are pastors who claim if you repent of your sins then you are going to hell. Really? Loving God so much that you decide to turn away from wickedness is going to land you in hell? Its the other way around, loving wickedness so much that you rather live in sin then to turn from it and follow Jesus who died for you that is going to land you in hell. King David committed murder and adultery. Just remember it was such a bad thing, that God sent a prophet to David and David REPENTED of his sins. God forgave David, but its clear repentance is extremely important. Can you imagine committing a sin so terrible that God sends you a PROPHET just so that you would repent??????????? WAKE UP PEOPLE By their fruits you will know them. Do not be deceived, no fornicator will enter the kingdom. All Christians should 1. Accept Jesus as their Savior, believe in Him that he died for them and rose again so that they could be saved. 2. Desire to know Him and love Him and to do His will (Which is why we repent of our wicked ways and try our best to stay out of sin, even though we fail)
Salvation is free all sin is paid yes people can live how they want get the hell over it. And yes no lordshipers are saved they claim faith in Christ but think if they dont live right they arnt saved therefore trusting in there own works why is that so hard for you dumbasses to understand.
Amen, John in 1 John 3:8-10 clarified this plainly 8 𝗛𝗘 𝗪𝗛𝗢 𝗦𝗜𝗡𝗦 𝗜𝗦 𝗢𝗙 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗗𝗘𝗩𝗜𝗟, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 𝗪𝗛𝗢𝗘𝗩𝗘𝗥 𝗛𝗔𝗦 𝗕𝗘𝗘𝗡 𝗕𝗢𝗥𝗡 𝗢𝗙 𝗚𝗢𝗗 𝗗𝗢𝗘𝗦 𝗡𝗢𝗧 𝗦𝗜𝗡, for His seed remains in him; and 𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗢𝗧 𝗦𝗜𝗡, because he has been born of God. 10 𝗜𝗡 𝗧𝗛𝗜𝗦 the 𝗖𝗛𝗜𝗟𝗗𝗥𝗘𝗡 𝗢𝗙 𝗚𝗢𝗗 and the 𝗖𝗛𝗜𝗟𝗗𝗥𝗘𝗡 𝗢𝗙 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗗𝗘𝗩𝗜𝗟 are 𝗠𝗔𝗡𝗜𝗙𝗘𝗦𝗧: Whoever does not practice righteousness 𝗜𝗦 𝗡𝗢𝗧 𝗢𝗙 𝗚𝗢𝗗 Is it hard to understand? Yes, for those who love their sin more than God, like Paul says in 2 Timothy 3:4 "lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God" God said: be holy for I am holy It is simple message, only wicked people will twist the scripture to their own destruction like Peter said and finally: MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE AND THEY FOLLOW ME, You don't follow - you are NOT His sheep, simply How can you be saved and rebel against Jesus own words? Ridiculous...
If salvation doesn't include repentence and obedience then how can you know if someone is saved? How do you know that practicing homosexuals aren't saved?
Derek Birmingham I was saved by grace through faith and I was a homosexual, a drug addict, a thief a liar and a whole lot of other things, but when I was born again Jesus became lord, I was born of the spirit, then I recieved the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I'm none of those things anymore. He washed me, he cleansed me, he clothed me with his righteousness. There's a righteousness that comes by faith. And when we recieve that righteousness, we start being righteous. Not self righteous, but christ righteous. Then we are sanctified, which takes us our lifetime, as christ is being formed in us. Salvation is a free gift, I couldn't have done any of this on my own. All I had to do was get buried with christ at calvary and come up in newness of life. I did backslide for a while, but the holy spirit drew me back to the Lord and right back to Calvary... I keep my faith in Jesus Christ and what he did for me at Calvary and I walk in freedom. I haven't reached sinless perfection, but when I have a sinful thought I confess it right there and he forgives me and I walk in continual communication with him... I love Jesus. It's awesome that he created us simply to have a relationship with him. He's my Lord and Savior. He's my lily of the valley. I love him so much and therefore want to be obedient to him, not out of law but out of gratitude!
This is a worldly perspective. And I say this in all humbleness. But someone mentioned where Grace doesn’t undermine sanctification. Sanctification is akin to surrendering to the Holy Spirit; meaning we have to want to be made anew (by the Spirit).
LOL what is lordship salvation? A cult.. Notice how he never said a word about belief. Is it good for Christians to sin? no. But can any Christian lose their salvation because of sin? no.. You want to be saved read the gospel and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved... According to Peter who walked with Jesus that is all you have to do..
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. ~James 2:14-24 44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things. ~Luke 24:44-48 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. 12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. 13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true. ~John 8:11-13 King James Version (KJV) 13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: 18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. ~I Peter 1:13-25 18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. 19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: 20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. 21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. ~Acts 26:18-21 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. 19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. 20 And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus. 21 And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord. ~Acts 11:18-21 ~Repentance is not a work, but a sacrifice. It means that you change your mind about who God is. You cannot separate faith and repentance. And by your own logic, why will you teach to turn only from the sin of unbelief to have salvation? What about turning from all sin like the Bible actually teaches. ~ May God bless
Brit Lynn the bible says salvation is not of works lest any man should boast once saved always saved is true because Jesus says if you believe on me hath EVERLASTING life and EVERLASTING means forever which means you cannot lose it.
AMEN! Why do some not understand this? How do people suppose that Jesus will turn to them and say "Well done" when they never even turned away from sin? I don't get it it. All those goats that Christ will turn to and say, "Depart from me I never knew you" BELIEVED in Jesus!
Ray Shade salvation does not require works period, when repentence is used as a turn from sin context then it becomes works and negates God's grace. However it simply means to turn from whatever your trusting in and trust in Christ's SACRIFICE alone for salvation. Not keeping the law for justification.
It is works. Why do people think works is a bad thing. It’s all in the Bible where Jesus tells us to bring forth fruit. Don’t let the devil deceive you. Repentance is to turn your back on sin.
Amen , God doesn't see Commitment or non commitment, Obedient or non obedient or Perseverance or non perseverance. He sees only believers in the finished work of Christ . The rest are non- believers. John 3:18, 36.
i would never use the term "born again" if i didn't agree with the meaning. before i was "saved" i was a completely different person because of the sins i was in.. and i just don't think that if you are --living in-- the same sins (that doesn't mean people don't stumble and fall, and cannot "pick up the cross" again) then how can you be "born again"? if you can't look in the mirror and say Jesus has changed me completely because of the sins you were in and now are set free from, then are you really "born again"?
When you are saved you obey Jesus commands, obeying is NOT works but true faith and love for Jesus and his sacrifice on the cross. And yes you can lose your salvation if you fall away from the faith, which is very rare if you have the holy spirit in you.
He says only those who persevere will be saved. I believe the Bible says he who ENDURES to the end will be saved. Some people claim Lordship Salvation and not at all sinless perfection. Others believe it encompasses sinless perfection. However Jesus does not require sinlessness, but He does demand perfect obedience. Only he who does the will of My Father will enter heaven. And if we fall, 1 John 2:1 is for you. My friends I am sick to think of the evil in churches today as a result of easy believism. If your saved, you'll want to obey Jesus with all you have and will hate the slavery of sin. Jesus laws are freedom not bondage! This is good news! I pray that you seek the new covenant!
Joey Doherty See you did the same thing you said God does not require sinlessness but perfect obedience; that's a contradiction. And you are saying that people who believe the gospel by faith, not of works condone sin. Paul the apostle already answered you Shall we continue in sin so grace shall abound; god forbid
***** How many really believe we must not continue in sin. Churches don't preach God forbid, but rather, God forgives. As I said it's freedom! Why don't so called Christians want to be free? Because they'd rather sit in front of the TV, or hang out with worldly people, or anything other than getting on your face and crying out to God against what is contrary to Him. And yet they say He's the love of they're life. Obedience is NOT required for salvation, however we must repent unto salvation. Don't just turn from your sin, turn to Jesus and He will give you life. God demands perfect obedience, but as I said 1 John 2:1 is for us IF we are to fall. But if your truly born again, grief over your sin will way very heavy on your heart. God bless you.
Joey Doherty I don't understand what you are trying to say in the last post, it sounds like you are accusing people of wanting to live a life of sin. What do you mean by repentance? Are you saying that faith alone does not save? Or are you saying obedience saves? The term grieve over sin sounds very dramatic. We are to repent when we sin, which means feels remorse and conviction. To grieve is something different. Who said that Christians are not to feel bad for their sins? By saying that; you are insinuating that someone said something to the contrary. Who said that?
Joey Doherty How many really believe we must not continue in sin. So you are saying that there are people who call themselves christians who are really not because they really want to revel in sin. This is a good example of how Lordship Salvationists accuse those who believe the gospel which is saved by grace through faith, of preaching this, because they really want to revel in sin, and they don't love God. That's the spirit behind those who preach the lodship salvation stuff. And you are not like all the so called christians because you hate sin more than everyone else because you are so righteous. You grieve and weep over your sinful self. this type of attitude comes from the T in calvinism, Total depravity. Then you say false christians really don't love God because if they did they would get all dramatic like paul washer and cry, and just feel totally depraved and just weep on the floor at what a wretch you are. Just like that guy the calvinist calls his show Wretched - Todd friel Calvinism is a cult- a heresy
***** You're twisting my words. I don't hate my sins because I'm righteous, but because I love God. I didn't say Christians love they're sin, I said they're not serious about it. If we spent less time entertaining ourselves in the flesh and more time seeking God, I think we'd find it more and more difficult to sin. It's all about our love for Christ my friend.
What is 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 saying though. The bible confuses me because it says that fornicators and homosexuals etc won't inherit the kingdom but grace means we don't have to repent
In the same way that Jesus confronted the Pharisees so powerfully, the author of Hebrews absolutely dismantles the idea of us contributing to our salvation with works. it’s glorious. Once you understand the difference between the old and new covenants, everything starts making sense. “So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.” Hebrews 4:9-11 “For men swear by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute. In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath, so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us.” Hebrews 6:16-18 “Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, “THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,” He then says, “AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.” Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.” Hebrews 10:11-18
He is correct. Lordship Salvationist are the biggest liars and sinners on earth. Jesus will say, depart from me, I never new you. Cause they trusted merit, not Jesus for salvation.
October31st1517 it’s a lie and should not be taught. That literally encourages people to not have remorse or be convicted. Sin is wrong. It hurts people. We are here to love people and teach them how to stop sinning. We can’t do that if we think it’s ok to sin.
You also misunderstand and not one passage of Scripture do you use. Did I say evidence is greater than God's Word? But what does the Word say, not you? Now, Paul also must have major theological problems -- 'examine YOURSELVES whether you're in the faith, or whether you're reprobates' 2 Cor. 13:5. YOURSELVES. See that? He didn't say look to the cross. It couldn't be any more clear that we are to look to ourselves. Peter also must have had the same theological problems; 2 Peter 1:10 and the context is FRUIT and EVIDENCE, 'make your calling and election sure' and the context again is fruit, evidence, looking at self, not just the cross. Hebrews 6 also talks about evidence, 'bearing thorns, thistles' showing a lost state...or rather 'things that ACCOMPANY salvation' i.e. good fruit, showing regeneration/rebirth. They are the fruit/evidence and a picture of self. The entirety of 1 John gives us examples of evidence whether we are 'of God' or 'not of God'. It is looking at the evidence in the life. Evidence means someone has been 'to the cross' or regenerated, born from above. I'm in good company of those you say have major theological problems.
You think? He is showing what evidence and fruit looks like. That's why I used the text to refute your foolishness. He also says examine yourselves which is what I set out to prove against your tirade. Funny how you easy-believism fellows are so against evidence, looking at ones works as proof, and mock all who believe good works (as Scripture proves) accompanies salvation and then twist everything said in truth as if the one who says it is making works save a person. Put an end to your misconstruing what is said. It all reminds me of Matthew 7:23 where they were all words 'Lord Lord' but had no evidence to back up their claims, because they lived without law, or in their sins, in iniquity because they were not born from above. I know, you'll see that as 'you're saying you have to do good works to save yourself!' because you lack understanding and insight. It's called EVIDENCE, not the cause. Regeneration caused these works, Php. 2:13. Read it in light of 2:12 and try to understand it. You better look now and make certain because it will be too late on the other side.
***** You're out of control. I'd say if anyone needs to focus and examine himself it's YOU looking at your mouthy behavior here. Do you run your mouth like that publicly, Christian? Since your clueless as to how examination works and can only come up with mockery of the Word as to how it's done then you need to spend some more time being taught and less time instructing others. You've not questioned ME nor mocked ME you've mocked His Word. Not one person here has said 'do good works to be saved' but you. No one who is LS even remotely believes that. That you misunderstand and misconstrue all of that shows you're even more clueless than I thought. And it's not performance based either which shows you have a profound lack of understanding in NT theology and soteriology. There is the new creature, 2 Cor. 5:17, Galatians 6:15 and if there is no change there is no regeneration. You need to go spend some time in the Word and have someone interpret for you. Obviously you don't because you're out of control and use no Scripture whatsoever.
***** You're still out of control. Did I say it was literal? That's right, I didn't. So now name calling from you? Tell you what, the fruit you are bearing here is questionable. Or is it telltale? It is examining the fruit using metaphors in the text. If bearing thorns, thistles is your life, you're not saved. Does a human bear thorns and thistles? Of course not. But that is all you have, accusations, ad hominem, name calling, outbursts of anger, works of the flesh, because you don't have sound doctrinal defense. I've shown how the authors of Scripture also are in my company and defend examination, something you mock. I have shown you your foolish error in mocking this NT teaching. The text in Hebrews 6 talks of looking for things that accompany salvation, something obviously you need to look for.
Rob Gunn Time to put you on ignore Romans Galatians. I'm not going to give you fodder on here any longer so you can color yourself (a professing Christian) a fool. I hope you take an inward look because the outward evidence is troubling.
I know that salvation is not based on works … no question about it. BUT … why in the world is it a problem to: Commit Obey Persevere ? Is it a problem that the new creature I’ve become desires to serve the Lord? I know I can’t be perfect, but I don’t see the harm in doing the best I can.
I agree with the principle of Christian living as a product of being born again. It produces fruit and which is evidence of a spirit led life. One only has to read and understand the parable of the sower to see this.
It's works salvation and if you're honest with yourself and you believe in lordship you'll be constantly tormented with the fact that you aren't good enough and you're going to hell or if you're self righteous and you believe in lordship you begin to look down on everyone and judge all but yourself. Both are terrible places to be, lordship is heresey and it can't save anyone. He that believeth on the son hath everlasting life
It is James who said this. James 2 14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds?(U) Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food.(V) 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?(W) 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.(X) 18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds,(Y) and I will show you my faith(Z) by my deeds.(AA) 19 You believe that there is one God.(AB) Good! Even the demons believe that(AC)-and shudder. 20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]?(AD) 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?(AE) 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together,(AF) and his faith was made complete by what he did.(AG) 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e](AH) and he was called God’s friend.(AI) 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
Is James contradicting Paul? No way, since Gods word is inerrant. Both are right. No one saves but Jesus. Nothing we can do or boast. A saved person will bear fruit since the Holy Spirit enters his life. A new heart and transformed person is created through genuine faith. We change through the grace of God. If you say "I'm saved" and your sin doesn't bother you then you should test your heart.
This video needs more views. Lordship salvation is a rapidly spreading cancer in Christendom. Some blatantly preaching it while others give mixed messages. They'll claim grace and faith alone then spout mumbo jumbo about having to repent of sin and making Jesus Lord of your life in order to be saved.
Nero Lucille Christ be with you Sorry all are the same in Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3:28-29) It's really interesting St Paul agrees with St James, we must obey Christs law if we want eternal life. Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. For every man shall bear his own burden. Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. (Gal 6:2-9) You should read more God bless you
There is a raging battle in theological circles today over the issue of LORDSHIP SALVATION, i.e., the false teaching that a sinner MUST forsake their actual sins to be saved. No such hellish doctrine is taught in the Word of God. Proponents of this heresy pervert the Biblical meaning of the Word "repent." Whereas the Greek meaning of the word "repent" is METANOIA, meaning "to change one's mind"; Lordship Salvationists claim that it means "to forsake your sins." Even without looking at the Greek, the Bible even in English has no such teaching. The Bible always speaks of repentance TOWARDS GOD, and not from sin. Acts 20:21 says, "Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." Lordship Salvationists DON'T allow for a Christian to backslide. As far as they're concerning, a backslidden believer is no believer at all. This is adamantly refuted in the Word of God by numerous references to heroes of the faith who backslide into horrible sin (such as king David who committed adultery and murder). The foolish doctrine of Lordship Salvation leaves absolutely no allowance for a believer to backslide. Like it or not, there is an ongoing raging battle in EVERY believer between the sinful flesh and the Spirit of God (Romans 7:22,23; James 4:1). Even the Apostle Paul said in Romans 7:19, "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do." Now why would the Apostle Paul DO EVIL if Jesus were his Lord and Master? Hmmm? This Scripture alone proves the willing ignorance and hypocrisy of the proponents of the Lordship Salvation heresy. Even the best of Christians, such as the Apostle Paul, commit sin.
Was Christ being legalistic when He said to strive to enter? Or for us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling? No. He was being loving. He said to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. And I try. Not to earn anything, but because I love Him.
Strive to Enter, Luke 13:24 - Bob Wilkin ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rVghW8xSLfA.html What Did Paul Mean by "Work Out Your Own Salvation in Fear and Trembling"? - Phi 2:12 - Bob Wilkin ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-CkE4SYwQKUc.html
I have just finished reading The Welsh Revival: Its Origin and Development by Thomas Philips. The writer explains how this mighty movement of God's Spirit upon the hearts and minds of men commenced through the instrumentality of Humphrey Jones, a Wesleyan preacher , and David Morgan, a Calvinistic Methodist and spread like a wild fire from one district to another, resulting in numerous prayer meetings among peoples of various religious affiliations--Independents, Baptists, Wesleyans and Calvinistic Methodists (over 3000 converts were added to the Calvinistic Methodists alone). The writer, who is is as familiar with the various religious sectors of the Christian church in Wales as he is the entire principality of Wales--who even visited scenes of the revival, notes carefully about the nature of the revival that "On every occasion care is taken to instruct the people in the true and unchangeable principles of religion. They are cautioned against resting in mere outward profession. They are told that excitement is not conversion, that an awakening of the conscience to a sense of guilt and danger does not always result in a change of heart. It is strongly and constantly urged that whatever hope or confidence they may have in their own minds as to having 'passed from death unto life' ; it is a mistake, a delusion, unless it is accompanied by hatred of sin and , and a renunciation of it in every shape and form; love to holiness, and a practical discharge of every moral duty. In short, they are exhorted to seek a thorough change of heart and to furnish evidence thereof in holiness of life." The writer carefully notes that thing that characterized all the reports of revival in various areas was a wide array of public prayer meetings springing up in many different places in response to other prayer meetings. . Many public places of ill repute became places for prayer meetings and the spirit and power of prayer accompanied the preaching of the Gospel throughout the revival. Thomas Phillips points out: "This revival has had no Luther or Calvin, Whitefield or Wesley, Rowlands or Harries; and the absence of great names, while at the same time a mighty and spiritual work has been done, will the more effectually secure the gory to Him who alone gives the increase"/ He further states: "In a recent Welsh newspaper, there is an excellent letter from" a clergyman , in which he says, "What is the revival? Repentance for sin, faith in the only Savior, peace with God, joy in the Holy Ghost , and newness of life". So, why did I write all this? Because I, like many others, am tired of all the stupid and ridiculous posts I see on the internet that not only criticize and attack the biblical Doctrines of Grace (what is biblical Calvinism, not hyper-Calvinism) but even claim that Calvinists are not saved--and at the heart of much of the controversy is the question of Lordship salvation. Yes, when I was saved (over 41 years ago) I looked in Spirit-wrought repentance and faith to Jesus Christ (John --3:14---16) and trusted Him alone --in His finished work (His death and resurrection)-- to save me from sin. And, may I add my conversion to Christ included all of the above "Repentance for sin, faith in the only Savior , peace with God, joy in the Holy Ghost and newness of live "( Acts 16:31; Acts 11:18; 2 Corinthians 5:17, etc. I confess I did not know anything about Lordship salvation at that time, but I do know that my heart and life was spiritually transformed from the inside out though the mighty working of God's Spirit and faith in Jesus Christ. I have met many other Christians whose life of obedience and faith in Christ attests to their genuine conversion, who also never even heard of Lordship salvation when they were saved, but just as I received Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior, as scripture intimates: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved" (Acts 16:31) , "If you will confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God had raised Him from the dead, you will be saved" (Romans 10:9), I know they also received Him as their personal Lord and Savior from sin. Since I have been saved, I have read much on the question of Lordship salvation--both pros and cons, good and bad. . And yes, I do believe we must accept Christ as both Lord and Savior from sin if we are truly saved or converted. We do not make Him Lord. He already is Lord. We receive Him as He is in salvation--in His Person and work of redemption--namely, Lord and Savior, but I caution against reading into that, as some do, far more than what scripture says, even claiming that Lordship salvation is really a works-righteousness belief system. No, it is not. God bless.
Salvation is simple: 1. We as sinners cannot save ourselves. 2. Jesus did everything necessary for our salvation on the cross. 3. This gift of grace is 100% free of charge to the believer. Men: 4. Are you living up to a Godly life? Are you doing enough? You don't look Christian enough! Are you sure you are saved? Have you really repented of every sin? Are you sure your salvation is secure when you watched that bad movie last month?
Its the bible that raises the standard's .. !! You on the other hand are lowering the standars !! 1 Peter 4: 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 16Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. Moins
Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the GIFT of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. THAT SAYS IT ALL!
What is Repentance? Why is Repentance Important? - Bob Wilkin ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-SJdBunghxvc.html Bob Wilkin of the Grace Evangelical Society answers the following questions: What is Repentance? Is repentance a requirement for salvation? Why Is Repentance important in the life of a believer? Turn or Burn? - Do I Need to Repent of My Sins to Be Saved? - Bob Wilkin ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-R7ojRyeD0DM.html Have you ever been told that you need to turn from your sins or you will burn in hell? Have you ever been told that you need to repent of your sins for salvation? Dr. Bob Wilkin looks at what one needs to do in order to receive everlasting life, and whether repentance is needed in in addition to believing in Jesus for everlasting life.
@@GESvids Repentance is a central theme for the teaching of Jesus, Peter and Paul, often accompanying the Gospel message. In fact "repent" is the very first recorded word out of Jesus's mouth when he began teaching (Matthew 4:17). The reason for this is that the recognition of sin and its consequences reveals to the sinner his insufficiency and need for a Savior. You might say that repentance prepares the heart for faith. Consider the converse... if someone is unaware of sin or unrepentant from sin, then why would they want a Savior from it? 1 John 1:8-10 shows that everyone needs repentance, and equates lack of repentance with lack of belief. We see though from the example of Judas in Matthew 27:3-5, and also verses in Luke 3:2-3, 6-8, 12-14 and Acts 26:17-20, that repentance is more than simply acknowledging sin, or feeling sorrow for sin. In these passages Godly repentance involves recognition of sin, sorrow for sin, and a turning away from sin. This definition of repentance would have been very familiar to the 1st century Jewish audience (see Psalm 51 and 32 , Jonah 3, Isaiah 1:16-17 and Isaiah 55:6-7). For more on the nature of repentance see 2 Corinthians 7:10-11 and James 4:8-10. Free grace theology proponents worry that 'turning away from sin', used as a prerequisite for salvation, adds human works to the Gospel message (thus contradicting Ephesians 2:8-9). On this basis they question whether repentance has anything to do with salvation. However, a yielding of the heart and intent are no more meritorious human works than choosing to believe in Jesus as Savior. In fact, Acts 11:18 and 2 Timothy 2:25-26 suggest that repentance itself is granted by God (perhaps through His work which enables and prepares our hearts to repent). Please understand that teaching a message of repentance is not "frontloading the gospel", (i.e. getting your life straight before coming to faith in Jesus). That would be an impossible task. This is rather coming to view one's sin as God does, and a determination to stop. Others have suggested for similar reasons that, because some verses about saving 'belief' are silent on repentance (e.g. John 3:16), then the message of repentance is somehow ancillary or optional. However, arguments from silence fail where contradictory evidence abounds. Many verses throughout New Testament show that a message of repentance was intertwined with presentations of the Gospel message (e.g. Acts 20:21, Acts 3:19, Luke 24:46-47, Mark 1:14-15). Our teaching should mirror this.
IT'S ONLY AFTER RECEIVING GRACE AND GOD'S LOVE AND HOLY SPIRIT THAT CAUSES US. TO WANT AND DESIRE TO FOLLOW GOD AND TO PLEASE HIM. RIGHT, OUR "WORK'S" DON'T GET US RIGHT WITH GOD, IT'S OUR "FAITH" IN CHRIST FINISHED WORK! OUR JOB AFTER RECEIVING HIM, IS TO FOLLOW AND OBEY HIM AND LOVE HIM WITH ALL OF OUR HEARTS AND TO LOVE OUR NEIGHBOR ((ALL PEOPLE)) AS WE DO OURSELVES!
9 Questions that Lordship/Works Salvationists CANNOT answer: 1. How do you know when you've really believed? Since your idea of "genuine faith" must be proved by works and obedience, how do you know your faith qualifies as the real thing, since you can always do and obey more? What is it that really saves you anyway, your faith, or Jesus who is the object of your faith? How can your faith be validated by subjective introspection when your feelings and experiences fluctuate? And if the object of your faith, the Lord Jesus Christ, saves you, shouldn't you validate your faith only by whether it rests in Him? 2. How do you know when you've thoroughly repented? Since you are not conscious of every sin (cf. Lev. 4:2; 5:15), what if some sins are overlooked and not repented of? At what point do you think you've adequately repented: When your attitude changes about the sin? When you resolve to change your conduct? When your conduct actually changes? When you make restitution or ask for forgiveness? Or when you are sure that there will be no repetition of the sin? And if repentance is not just a change of attitude but a turning from sins and a change in conduct, then why does Jesus tell people to "bear fruits worthy of repentance" (Luke 3:8)? 3. How do you know when you're completely committed to Christ's Lordship? How much commitment is enough to secure your salvation? Is the willingness to commit enough, or must you actually commit everything? And how would you know what everything involves, especially as an unbeliever? Since you believe the commitments required for discipleship are also commitments needed for salvation, and they are ongoing (e.g., deny yourself, take up your cross daily, follow Jesus, abide in God's Word, love Christ supremely, etc.), how do you know when you have fulfilled them? 4. How can you expect an unbeliever to make spiritual decisions that reflect spiritual maturity and an understanding of God's will? Aren't you getting the cart before the horse? If an unbeliever is dead in sin, how can that unbeliever know and desire what God wants him or her to do and obey? Isn't knowing and obeying God's will the essence of the Christian's life after one believes? 5. Have you remained completely committed to Christ's lordship? If you haven't, isn't that an indication that you were never fully committed? And wouldn't that mean you were never really saved? Or is it an admission to the reality and power of sin, a reality that would make it impossible for anyone to make the full commitment demanded by your view of salvation? 6. Which sins disqualify a person as a true believer? Again, is there a list of certain sins that prove one is not saved? What about King David's sins of murder and adultery? Since he was surely saved, do sins have to be worse than his to prove one is unsaved? How much sin is a Christian capable of? Since you undoubtedly agree that Christians do sin, how much is too much before you deny he or she is a true Christian? Where do you draw the line? Why does the Bible instruct church discipline for Christians who sin? 7. If salvation depends on your perseverance in faithfulness and good works, how can you know for sure you are saved? Though you may be living faithfully now, how do you know what tests or temptations you will face tomorrow? If you can not predict the future, isn't there a chance you could sin and die before you repent? As long as that is possible, how can you say with certainty that you are a true Christian and that you have any assurance of eternal life? How could you honestly give assurance of salvation to anyone who says he or she believes the Gospel? 8. Where is there room to grow? If your saving faith included obedience, forsaking all sins, a committed life, and a guarantee of faithfulness, what is left to do? Why are there so many ethical demands in the Bible addressed to Christians? Aren't they unnecessary if a godly life is inevitable? 9. Did the apostle John preach a false Gospel? Since the Gospel of John does not mention repentance, or submission, or commitment to Jesus as Lord as conditions for salvation, but does mention believe as the condition for salvation 98 times, would you call that "easy believism?" Do you think John was ignorant or irresponsible (But I know you believe that is impossible since this is God's inspired Word)? Since his is the only book of the Bible that claims it was written to tell people how to be saved (John 20:31), shouldn't it determine what you believe about the condition for salvation?
I think lordship salvation came about from turning grace into lascivious behavior. That people who are saved, can still live in the worst sins. Really, you cannot have lordship without antinomians. The truth however is in the center. We are saved by faith, but as the Bible states, we must test our faith and the spirits that we follow. It the fruit of the spirit does not produce the deeds of righteousness, as Christ is living through us, and we are no longer living to ourselves. The other problem with the more extreme LS group is that they redefine sin to deceive themselves that they are living completely free of sin, to fulfill 1 John 5:18.
There is such a discussion here in the comments. I would suggest to anybody to just forget everything you (think to) know and simply read the New Testament from Matthew 1 to Revelation 22 and not impose any of your interpretations unto the text, neither listen to any person who tries to "explain what a passage really means". Just read it and let God's Word teach you instead of the other way around. Instead of preassuming that you must be correct and everything you know is the truth, simply read what the Bible says and do not ignore anything but simply ask yourself, what is this text really telling me (and also pray about it, ask God for wisdom and understanding and let the Holy Spirit teach you what is the Truth while reading) ... and you will know the truth! God bless you all!
D. L. Starkey : I am kind of the opposite. I believed and still believe that salvation comes from grace alone thru faith. However, Before I was born again, I thought I was saved and could keep on in my sinful lifestyle as long as it wasnt too bad. After being born again, the Spirit leads me away from sin. I used to love and plan my sin in advance. Now I hate it and make plans to avoid it.
This is precisely why the law of God must be preached before the gospel is preached to show people that you cannot gain righteousness or become born again by keeping the laws of God.... the law makes everybody guilty before God and it is only the gospel that justifies.... and when people get this they will stop trying to make Jesus their lord in order to be saved....
