I just finished Bavinck’s Wonderful Works of God and absolutely saw the orthodox yet modern approach in this succinct handbook of theology. Looking forward to reading more about these works.
"seeing the creeds as resources ... need to keep learning from the past" Agree 100%! This includes opening one's bible to the table of contents and asking who decided the New and Old Testament canons, and when did they do so? One finds that for the New Testament, one find that the late 4th century Catholic Church decided, 27 writings out of 300+ early Christian writings, Bishops meeting at Rome (382), Hippo (393), and Carthage (397). The very same Bishops said the Old Testament was 46 writings. The Council of Rome below on the Old Testament: _“The order of the Old Testament begins here: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book; Leviticus, one book; Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Joshua [Son of] Nave, one book; Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; Kings, four books [ie., 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings]; Paralipomenon [Chronicles], two books; Psalms, one book; Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book; Ecclesiastes, one book; Canticle of Canticles, one book; likewise Wisdom, one book; Ecclesiasticus [Sirach], one book. Likewise the order of the Prophets. Isaias one book, Jeremias one book,…lamentations, Ezechiel one book, Daniel one book, Osee … Nahum … Habacuc … Sophonias … Aggeus … Zacharias … Malachias … Likewise the order of the historical [books]: Job, one book; Tobit, one book; Esdras, two books [Ezra and Nehemiah]; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; Maccabees, two books.”_ Council of Rome, Decree of Pope Damasus (A.D. 382). The Synod of Hippo *_“That nothing be read in church besides the Canonical Scripture._*_ Item, that besides the Canonical Scriptures nothing be read in church under the name of divine Scripture. But the Canonical Scriptures are as follows: Genesis. Exodus. Leviticus. Numbers. Deuteronomy. Joshua the Son of Nun. The Judges. Ruth. The Kings, four books. The Chronicles, two books. Job. The Psalter. The Five books of Solomon. The Twelve Books of the Prophets. Isaiah. Jeremiah. Ezechiel. Daniel. Tobit. Judith. Esther. Ezra, two books. Macchabees, two books.”_ Council of Hippo, Canon 36 (A.D. 393). The Synod of Carthage *_“[It has been decided] that nothing except the canonical Scriptures should be read in the Church under the name of the divine Scriptures._*_ But the canonical Scriptures are: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, Paralipomenon, two books, Job, the Psalter of David, five books of Solomon [Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Wisdom, Sirach], twelve books of the Prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobit, Judith, Esther, two books of Esdras, two books of the Maccabees.”_ Council of Carthage III, Canon 397 (A.D. 397). So if one tacitly trusts in the authority of these men to have decided their New Testament, one should be consistent and defer to them for their Old Testament - and not heeding to the canon of Catholic men with no authority 1,100 plus years later. So too, one should read what else they professed and believed. As Catholic Bishops, they all believed that through their words of consecration, the bread and wine transformed into the resurrected body and blood of Christ, a means for receiving his grace. As St Athanasius - Catholic Bishop of Alexandria said, the very first person by whom we have a listing of the New Testament canon : _“You will see the Levites bringing the loaves and a cup of wine, and placing them on the table. So long as the prayers and invocations have not yet been made, it is mere bread and a mere cup. But _*_when the great and wonderous prayers [consecration by the priest] have been recited, then the bread becomes the body and the cup the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ….When the great prayers and holy supplications are sent up, the Word descends on the bread and the cup, and it becomes His body.”_* Athanasius, Sermon to the Newly Baptized, PG 26, 1325 (ante A.D. 373).
“The church no more gave us the New Testament canon than Sir Isaac Newton gave us the force of gravity. God gave us gravity, by His work of creation, and similarly He gave us the New Testament canon, by inspiring the individual books that make it up.” -J.I. Packer The Roman Catholic canonical model rejects the inherent self-authenticating and self-determining authority of scripture. The canon and the authority of holy scripture is recognized and received by the church not determined by the church. The canon of the Old Testament was received as such by the church for 1500 years before the council of Trent. These are the oracles of God not determined or externally authenticated by man no matter how great their learning or acumen may be. The church is a product of the Word and not the other way around. Sola scriptura > Sola ecclesia.
@@machen_man "The church no more gave us the New Testament canon" God works his agency through men. Jesus PROMISED that he would send the Holy Spirit, to lead his Church to ALL Truth. This includes not only what was put to writ, the inspired and inerrant Written Word, but also he guided through the Spirit, his Church to know what was inspired and not. That's precisely why the 4th c Bishops met, to decide what was, and what was not scripture, and to have this canon read when Christians met at Mass. The Liturgy of the Word followed by the Liturgy of the Eucharist. No one believed in a symbolic only Lord's Supper. They were of One Faith on the matter. *Question: can you cite the very first person to list the New Testament canon exactly as you have it? Can you then do so for the Old Testament?* "self-authenticating and self-determining authority of scripture." Book, chapter, and verse where scripture teaches exactly this? And reading the table of contents, do you consistently apply this doctrine to it? "The canon and the authority of holy scripture is recognized and received by the church" Took them a few hundred years to recognize it, exactly as you have it, at least for the New Testament. For the Old Testament, the very same Church said the Old was 46 writings, not 39. Question: Be specific as to the name of this Church? Can you name a few "pastors" who led Christian worship post the apostolic age, and who used the canon of scripture exactly as you have it? "These are the oracles of God not determined or externally authenticated by man " Do you get this from scripture? If yes, book, chapter and verse. "The church is a product of the Word " Interesting. Wondering again where scripture says just this? The WORD incarnate yet. The Written Word, no. Not one New Testament writing was put to writ until at least 50 ad, and as late - most argue - around 70 ad. Yet, the Church grew greatly. The bible itself comes from the Church, not the other way around. Jesus founded the Church. He made repeated promises: Christ is the head of his Church (Col 1: 18) Christ''s Church is the pillar of truth (1 Tim 3: 15) Christ's Church is the bulwark of truth. (1 Tim 3: 15) Christ's Church is where the manifold wisdom of God is made known. (Eph 3: 10) *Christ PROMISED to lead it to ALL Truth. (Jn 16: 13)* Christ PROMISED that he would NEVER leave it. (Mt 28: 20) Christ PROMISED that the gates of hell would not prevail (it will not teach doctrinal error) ; (Mt 16: 18)
@@TruthHasSpoken It’s not about whether or not you can trace your lineage to Peter. Being related to Peter don’t mean nothing if you are “venerating” icons and statues.
@itlupe thats still not an explanation. Jesus in John 3:5-8 limits John 3:16 only to the ones the Spirit gives the new birth to, so I still would love to hear why you think it's blasphemy. Additionally, John 3:16 is saying all the believing ones will have eternal life, not that all have the capacity to make themselves become believing ones.
@@Jondoe_04 Good grief! The Bible does not "limit" itself. All Jesus was saying is that man cannot enter heaven without birth and rebirth. One cannot be born of the Spirit unless on accepts Jesus as Savior. 3:16 compliments that by saying to be born of the Spirit one must confess Jesus as Lord. :...whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life" Exactly: WHOSOEVER...πᾶς (pas)(INDIVIDUALLY...each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone,). Calvinism is blasphemy because it distorts God's word to fit a human narrative. ANYONE that does that is committing blasphemy. Your explanation is distorting God's word to fit your narrative.
@itlupe what does Jesus say Himself, John 3:8 ESV [8] The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” So if the wind does what it wills so too does the Spirit, He gives the new birth to He wishes. Therefore, those who are born of the Spirit are done so by the will of God. Where does it say that one is born of the Spirit by saying Jesus is Lord? If I recall, it says no can say Jesus is Lord unless they are born of the Spirit, ergo prior they are born of the Spirit first not after. Every individual doing what? You didn't explain what they are doing, what is the the verb that they are doing. Every individual believing, it is not saying that all have the capacity to believe, it is merely saying of those who believe, they will have eternal life. I'm not denying that it's also saying that God so loved, that is the one doing the action their (even you should deny that as He sent His Son and so on), I was merely saying that what is the result of God's to said group, that they have everlasting life. According to Dr. Mounce he says and translates it as "Can you translate the verse without "whoever"? Sure, as long as you choose words that are not limiting. "God loved the world so he gave his only Son, that every one who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life." While he disagrees with the term limit, he makes clear that the those who have eternal life are the ones believing not all, and does not necessarily mean all have the capacity to do so. (Does John 3:16 really say whosoever if you want to look it up)
