There's actually a little known Easter egg in the game, where if you hold shine while a projectile is heading towards you, it will get reflected the other way
Shine is used to: Gimp, combo, kill, recover, move out of shield, and as shield pressure. Reflecting is its least used application, what it was intended to do.
Isn't it funny that most of of Melee's popularity (and with it, the competitive Smash community as a whole) comes from its unbalaced movesets and insane combo potential, even though this is something that was never really intended to be implemented in the first place and only ended up being a thing because the game was rushed so it could be the release title for the Gamecube? In short, competitive Smash was created by accident.
There's _another_ reason Shine is dumb: It's an electric attack, which in Melee means its hitlag is multiplied by 1.5x, but only for the defender. This makes it significantly easier to chase the foe and follow up.
And don't forget about the set knockback, making it incredible for combos. Falco is the second best character due to those classic Shine + D-air combos.
Unfortunately the smash i play (SSF2,yeah,i don't have any money) the shine is not that great,like,you can still jump cancel and multishine but...that's it,not much of it
@@taskreloaded7263 ok but that is for FALCO,fox's shine is not that great (the most useful thing you can do with shine is shine spike characters with bad recoveries)
These videos always seem genuine to me. Excellent but not flashy editing, and a voiceover that feels more like a conversation than a speech. Looking forward for more of these to come out. Not to mention the on point sound effects. Like, jesus.
Agreed. I'd rather watch a channel that only makes good content no matter the time. Than a channel that just pumps out daily garbage that makes you loose the intention to keep watching.
as a resident of washington, that tournament panel is heavily memed in our state "haha we talk about the 7 bayos and 1 ness but have you heard about the washington split between puff and peach, and one sheik??"
Because a lot of characters dont have the speed or jump height to do anything other than try to shine gimp (if they get fox's shine). Fox has the speed on the ground to chase his shine's horizontal knockback, and falco has the huge fast vertical movement to keep up with his shine's vertical knockback via jump. The people who act like shine gimp is some unstoppable tool don't play fox and/or don't know how to edgeguard with their own character. This is why marth players have such annoying foxes. They act like it's super easy to play fox while only doing the most simple, uninspired options over and over.
come and punish me i say! i'll be waitin' ya with a frame of the ol' 20XX. i'm a grim shiny sparkle, with an uncancelleable bloody angle! *Marth, falco and sheik get spiked by the shine mine*
Given that it can't be canceled after successfully reflecting something, my guess is that they did intend to make it cancelable so that you don't get fully exposed for that huge long to attacks in case you miss a reflection / pull it by accident
As someone who only watches and never plays, this is the most informing vid on shine mechanics, well written, and no lame jokes or forced comedy and all in 5 min. Thankyou!
I've tried playing Melee competitively when I was in college, but I don't understand how people can chain multiple frame-perfect inputs multiple times in a row and just fly across the map. Probably one of the most frustrating competitive games I've ever played.
@@d0943 Right but people talk about it like the move is in its own league. Shine is just one of the insane moves that Melee's insane characters have, albeit one of the most significant ones
@@Ldevos0 That's because the move IS in its own league. Remove shine and you vastly change the entire character. It is quite literally central to his optimal playstyle.
I love this new style of content, please keep it up. It's a great way to introduce newer players to the game while entertaining those of us who have been around for a while.
Thanks for making this video, very helpful. I knew almost all of this but when my friends asked me about melee spacies I couldn't explain anything without having a panic attack.
Idk why, but that transition from the Viridian City music to the Bianco Hills music is so satisfying to me. It just fits the tone of the video so perfectly
I read “Triple shine (anything past here tends to just be called a multishine)” As “Triple shine (anything past here tends to just be called a mistake)” lol
@@dude99121 No, no it literally isn't. Portland is still an amazing place to live. Makes me wish the PNW wasn't connected to the rest of this shitty country.
This is Fox’s Reflector. If you’re familiar at all with competitive smash, it’s probably one of the first things you think of when you hear the word Melee. And if you actually play Melee, this light blue, flashing hexagon has been burned into your mind forever at this point. The notoriety of Melee’s iteration of the reflector, or “Shine” as it’s called in the community, is no doubt indebted to the fact that it’s attached to two of Melee’s best and most popular characters; Fox and Falco. Not to mention it’s also one of, if not THE best move in the entire game. But, have you ever thought about what makes it so good? Shine has a lot of things going for it. It comes out on frame 1, the fastest a move can possibly become active, It gives Fox and Falco full intangibility for its first frame, it’s a solid kill option for both spacies, it’s a huge part of both of their combo games, it halts your vertical momentum for a bit, and of course, it reflects projectiles. But what if I told you none of those things are what makes shine so good, what if I told you [that] the best part of shine is ending it. For frames 4 through 21, you can cancel Fox and Falco’s shine by jumping. With this as a possibility, shine essentially changes from a very laggy, relatively niche 39-frame move with only a single frame of an active hitbox, to the deadly, multi-purpose killer the community knows so well that, at its fastest, is only 4 frames long. Raw speed isn’t the only benefit of being able to cancel shine by jumping out of it too. By inputting certain moves in what’s called “jumpsquat”, the frames before you leave the ground after inputting a jump, you can perform a few grounded moves immediately out of shine. This is called jump-canceling, and it’s where things get a little wild. Shine, jump-cancel, grab, or simply Shine grab, is one of the best options on shield in the game. You can Shine, Jump-cancel, Upsmash, if you’re feeling extra cool. And, last but not least, you can pseudo-jump-cancel a shine into another shine, which is fittingly called a double shine. What do I mean by pseudo-jump-cancel, though? Well, it’s the same idea as a regular jump-cancel, but since you can't actually perform shine during jumpsquat, like grab and upsmash, you input shine on the first frame you’re airborne after jumpsquat. After your double shine, you can jump-cancel yet again into another shine to perform a triple shine. Jump-cancel shine out of that to perform a quadruple shine, and when you’re technical enough; *shine-shine-shine-shine-shine-shine-shine-shine-shine-shine (breaks shield)* *23 shines in a row* But, that’s all, right? It doesn’t get any better tha- No! There’s more. Because you can jump out of shine, you can also perform Melee’s quintessential tech out of it, the wavedash, which is performed by jumping, and then airdodging diagonally into the ground. This combination of moves, shine into wavedash, is called a waveshine, and it’s pivotal for Fox and Falco players to master. Technically proficient Fox players can perform a pseudo-infinite on certain characters by waveshining their opponent across the stage. Though with DI and smash DI, you can escape. Waveshining is also what turns reflector into a solid combo tool and kill confirm by way of waveshine-upsmash. For Falco, waveshining is much the same in that it’s a huge combo tool, finisher, and kill confirm. But unlike Fox, Falco sadly has no infinite he can perform.
@@krooked7631 Yeah but that's not the most optimal application for shine. You're supposed to turnaround before the down special. Being able to turn around during shine is more of a safety net for if you messed up the turnaround, especially because it temporarily disables jump canceling (which is the only reason you would even want to turnaround)
hope you give the game a try someday! it's truly an incredible game with a lot of care and love put into it by its creators and community, despite them often getting a bad rap.
Dude your new style of video has taken you from a Top Tier Melee content creator to the clear best Melee content creator in the community. Keep up the good work, my friend.
I don't care much for Melee but I love learning about it, and damn you are clear and direct. Love the content, hope to see this channel grow over time!
Thank you for making this kinda content - I really do not like Melee and have no attachment to it, but I'm a person who has a lot of interest in gaming (and competitive gaming) cultures like Melee's, and just learning more about the game's mechanics and oddities is always enjoyable. Congrats on your channel becoming blessed, keep up the consistent content/growth!
There's more... You can turn around in the shine animation. Which means you can grab ledge quickly by (Dash>Shine>TurnAround>WaveDash) or (Dash off ledge>Shine>TurnAround>Jump>UpB) to ledge. You can also use it to counter recovery because Fox's shine is a semi-spike and can kill at low percentages. Falco can recovery from Dair endlag because shine reduces falling speed. Shine is fast, intangible, reflects, Combos, Kill Options, EdgeGuarding, Recover, Shield Pressure, etc. It can do everything
Honestly I think it fits in just fine. It doesn't really break the game as a whole in anyway imo. I'm play falco sometimes but im mainly a falcon player. Playing foxes and falcos really doesn't bother me in anyway. I don't think it's broken at all. Unintended feature at best lol.
It's balanced relative to the other high tiers. There's nothing wrong with having a strong option if it makes the character more viable, fun, and technical to play. Without shine, Fox/Falco would have nothing strong to compete with the other high tiers.
This vid is awesome, but the ssbm competitive community would still prosper with combo games. Captain Falcon, Marth, Sheik, and Pikachu are all really fun to watch and don't have shine. The comp scene would absolutely be different, sure, but not dead.
