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I remember hearing someone say that Kirby was probably one of the first characters developed for Melee, and he became a victim of power creep as more characters were added, and I think it makes sense
If that’s true, that… actually would explain a lot. Not fundamentally broken stuff like mashable throws and the stupidly weak aerial hammer, but why he’s so weak in general. Did this person have a source?
It also makes sense for Bowser, considering his popularity and fan polls wanting him in the game, I could see them starting work on him early in the process.
I love the story behind the thumbnails. In the previous video about the worst character in Melee we have Bowser picking up a flower, and on this one we see that he's giving it to Kirby, the other worst character.
The biggest advantage of playing Kirby is that every stock you somehow manage to take inches your opponent one step closer to having a stroke, which by extreme technicality counts as a win.
Fun fact: in Ultimate, where Kirby gets his Melee dash attack back (with some buffs), an in-game tip EXPLICITLY mentions that Kirby's dash attack WILL NOT go off ledges (which it won't), a nod to how it used to do this in Melee.
As someone who doesn't play Melee I was thrown off when he just fell off the stage mid-attack. Does any other dash attack in the series do that? It just looks so wrong lol.
@@TheLobsterCopter5000 While it potentially is a nod to Melee, there's also the fact that it's a dash attack where the user is airborne, so the natural assumption is that you *would* fall off ledge using it.
Does anyone know if any brawl dash attacks do this? In PM/P+, DK's dash attack goes off ledges and, unlike kirby's, it's actually not bad and you can do get some crazy followup afterwards.
Fun fact: I believe in an interview Sakurai said that Kirby being your first character in WoL isn't (entirely) bias. He said it's cause Kirby's one of the 3 characters Sakurai thinks could canonically survive Galeem's attack. The other two being Palutena and Bayo. He chose Kirby from those three because he's the most beginner friendly. (Tho it could totally still be bias lol)
Its probably a bit of bias and the fact that Kirby is a little bit easier to play. Personally I think Palutena and Bayonetta should of been characters that can be playable at the beginning as well.
@@liammclin5722 which makes sense i know Palutena is a Goddess but not much outside of that. Bayonetta has also killed a resurrected God in the first game and another God in the second.
2:56 Ive seen this clip 20+ times and I just realized Zain picks up his controller for him. That's really great sportsmanship in a moment where most could argue he didn't really need too. Good on Zain.
Don't think most people can say they'd act like that after losing a big set and the winner is screaming behind them. Not that I blame Hbox either but like, damn dude
@@retronymph Nah I do blame Hbox lmao. Screaming and jumping up like that makes sense when you're on a massive stage with hundreds of people watching and cheering, not when you're in a little room with like 6 other people, none of whom even reacted when you won lmao. He could've at LEAST shook Zain's hand before freaking out but nope. Shitty sportsmanship, zero manners, but very typical for him so.
As has been said before by a big yellow RU-vidr, Kirby in Melee is like eating a bowl of Lucky Charms with water. None of it is good, but some of it is a bit less bad.
Fun fact: If Kirby's up smash collides with a sword attack, you'll hear the same "TING" sound effect that plays when two blades collide. This also happens with Mewtwo's tail.
Well haging accurate hitboxes is really only an issue cuz hes a tiny ball with no limbs, so hitboxes arent going to be his strength anyway. But since everything about him otherwise is also shit hes just fucked
I've seen 3:03 many times, but I never noticed that Zain picked up hbox's controller and gently laid it on the chair. That's kind of beautiful to be honest.
Absolutely. My favorite creators are the ones who work hard on their videos for a long time. Their videos are almost always better, and AsumSaus is no exception.
Bad on paper good in practice, it lets him do an aerial shorthop at any time and its goot as a mixup advancing option as the slow hitbox throws a looot of people off. People dont know how to handle it man, and it can do like 15% before a followup
A true fan of the game right there. I play Bowser on Slippi (on days where everyone isn't quitting the moment they see Bowser) just to try and move as nicely as possible to make Bowser look as smooth as possible. Mostly just a lot of edge-cancelled aerials and wave movement, especially wavelands since his jump-squat takes like 2 minutes.
I remember being actually pissed that Kirby was so bad even as a kid. I tried so hard to use him anyways because I loved him. Least he's really fun in Ultimate.
Hah! You're a disgrace! I managed to beat Very Hard for each mode and also Showdown (in 2 minutes)!, IM THE BEST KIRBY PLAYER IN THE WORLD I just don't have the resources to enter any contest right now, not even a PC to connect to some private match
I do too, since smash 64 the only game i played for the smash series i always have him as my main and he´s also my favourite video game charecter... its a shame he was the worst on melee with bowser. but he became decent in the other smash games and he was soo goodand Op in smash 64.
@@TrueTrickster2016 My guy Kirby literally destroys anyone in the entire Smash cast (not just Melee) based on his canonical power, only like Pyra/Mythra and Sora have a legitimate chane of beating him, so yeah he is indeed holding back
Here are some more fun useful facts about Kirby that makes him even more.... Shit. Kirby's ub-b when used consumes all of his jumps, even if he has used only one! So if he gets hit once, even on the startup, he's dead no matter what. The same thing applies with his up throw! And it is why a lot of players only go for up throw at low percents, since it MAY lead to a tech chase on a platform, IF your opponent is drunk, or really slow. However, it can be used to Kirbycide that cannot be escaped out of.... if you roll to the back of ledge and your opponent somehow doesn't see it coming. Kirby's down throw sends at such a bad angle, Marth can immediately up-b out of it to prevent being tech chased. Not only can Marth up-b out, but puff can actually REST. Meaning if you grab puff and they know about it, they can immediately kill you with rest at 13%. Kirby rock can actually slide along ledges and is pretty funny to use on Yoshi's if someone is recovering along the side and you want to have a good chuckle. Kirby's dash attack when caped by Doc or Mario actually slide backwards, so he does his own version of the flaming moonwalk. Kirby's biggest claim to fame is the fact that his spotdodge is the fastest in the cast. Meaning when you see Kirby's just spotdodge like crazy, they're just using the only thing that makes Kirby.... Kirby. I've mained Kirby for a long time, and appreciate you reading this! :) I'd love to see if there is anything else not so commonly known about Kirby!
@@seronymus Honestly, when I started playing Melee 8 years ago, I was a Marth main and I could never beat this Shiek main. So I switched to Kirby and just had fun :)
I love the idea that Kirby, a being that kills demons straight from hell on a weekly basis and literally survived the extinction of the end of a universe, sucks at hand-to-hand combat. Guess nobody has destroyed his cake yet.
@@n.andkirby in 64, he simply saw everything as a competition and did not hold back. But in Melee and other subsequent games, he’s grown to see the other smashes as friends and thus takes it easier on them
I don't even play Smash Bros in any capacity and I've accidentally, truly accidentally, watched every single one of your videos. The way you present information pulls the viewer right in. You've trimmed all the fat and inserted just the right amount of humor. Bravo. I need more of this.
I like to think (despite validity) that Kirby is bad in Melee because he's too... normal. Many hitboxes are more realistic, and many of the better characters rely on some sort of exploit or mistake in the design. This may be an excuse, but especially with how fun he is, that's just fine with me. Edit: Another comment mentioned he may have been designed earlier than the others, and that could pair with this. They had a style, but concepts changed as the rest of the game developed. (again, more breaks and such as well)
Save for his throws, Kirby's kit in general is just underwhelming, there is no fatal flaw that ruins the character, nor a certified "melee moment™" in him, he is just plain Bad in everything
No he's just bad, even if he hits with this mediocre hit boxes he does no damage, has good but very gimpable recovery, one of the worst dash dances in the game etc, only one or two characters rely on something that isn't baked into the engine to be good
I started playing melee semi-casually a few weeks ago and always wondered why Kirby was ranked as such an incredibly bad character, because he didn't *feel* terrible when trying him out while I was figuring out which character I liked the most, so it makes sense that it seems to be mostly that his toolkit overall is just very weak when compared to other characters instead of it just being a melee moment™. Fantastic video as always. Your channel is a huge inspiration to me :]
Yeah two moments really hammered home why Kirby can seem okay at first but be so crap: Puff vs Kirby jumps: pound and airspeed completely solve horizontal recovery. That difference is massive. The joking "flowchart" moments where it's like "okay, grab leads into something if you read it and don't do a non functional throw. Up tilt into --> single aerial is your best punish" makes it really stark. As a beginner you're mostly stringing together random hits out of neutral. Every other character eventually links those hits together into a strategy. Kirby just kinda has to win neutral 100 times
Tangentially related: I was a Zelda main growing up and even casual players would ask why I didn't play Sheik. I said that Sheik was easier to pickup because of her speed, but as you got better and learned how to use Zelda's kit, Zelda was actually the better character. I was... incorrect in my assessment
@@sdw-hv5ko Weird, as a kid growing up, we gravitated towards Zelda > Sheik because her smash attacks are strong and we gravitated towards strong smash attacks. Nobody really knew how to kill with Sheik, nor could we make use of her other features.
To wall out Fox: Expertly maneuver yourself into a position just out of range of most of Fox's moves, while also maintaining range of your moves. To wall out Kirby: Press the L button.
Another few things about Kirby 1. His forward, back and up throw lose all his jumps 2. His inhale hitbox gets smaller midair compared to grounded inhale 3. There's a cool absolutely useless tech with dash attack, if you dash attack right before running off a platform, you can cancel dash attack's animation with a grab
Even at a different points during subspace, each of the Kirby characters have very important roles. Kirby escorts one of the princesses and helps save everyone in the maze, dedede is a main point of conflict for all of the cartoony characters (along with having the brooches), and meta knight literally drives the story forward by having his ship introduce the first subspace bomb and primids, as well as being a meeting point for all of the characters later on
Maybe his brain was pregnant because that’s the womb where Kirby was. Sakurai’s hand was the father for drawing him, and his brain is the mother for birthing him.
I just realized the thumbnail tells a little story. In a different video, bowser is shown picking flowers. In this one, he's shown giving the flowers to Kirby. What a nice fella.
I remember always using Kirby when I played smash at my friends house as a kid. Idc if he’s absolutely awful, he’s my guy and I’ll have dun even if he’s bad
No one really talks about Kirby in Melee. It's so underwhelming, but in a boring way. It doesn't have a glaring flaw, but just has no upside. Even other low tier characters have something they do best out of all the entire cast. Kirby has nothing.
I heard that for Ultimate, Sakurai chose Kirby for the WoL campaign starting character because of the characters that could feasibly escape Galeem(Palutena, Bayonetta, Kirby...) Kirby was the most beginner friendly.
If you really want to main an awful character -and surprise people when you rekt them because they don't know the match up,- you should use male wireframe instead.
Sadly, the "play a bad character so people don't know the matchup" niche is the personal property of Zelda, because Zelda can take a cheeky stock here and there... and then switch to a character who is actually good.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 that was probably the wrong thing to say. Anyone who's knows captain falcon's match knows what male wireframe's deal is (either then he's much worse)
'Welcome to the Salty Splatoon! How tough are ya?' 'I have climbed to the very top of a Melee tournament without a high tier' 'I see... Who is your main?' 'Kirby' 'Dear God, Errmm... Right this way you madman...'
the delivery on "so abysmally shit" genuinely had me spit my food, definitely was NOT trying to, you are wonderful and spread so much unspeakable joy into so many people's world
@@x9x9x9x9x9 i tried but its not my type of fighting game. I am very big into the Slowclap game Absolver and considered making a similar video like Asum does with Meele about all the broken moves in that game (for example there are like 10-12 moves in the game that have incorrect framedata)
@@webbowser8834 “Perfectly playable” Eh. Definitely nowhere near as bad as Melee but like… eh. He just struggles against so much of the roster that he just doesn’t feel fun to play. I’d been playing as him competitively since the beginning of Smash 4 but dropped him a few months ago in favor of Dark Pit because I dread fighting about 70% of the roster as Kirby. He gets steamrolled by speed demons, walled out by swordies and zoners, and deleted in three hits by heavies since they tend to outrange him. He’s got decent CQC but struggles to make use of it and he’s the got the low weight of a lot of high/top tiers but very little of the power and none of the speed that usually accompanies it.
Really good video and a very informative one at that. I love the placement of some of the sound effects as well, it made some parts of the video really funny.
Couple of “fun” Kirby facts. If you use dash attack as soon as you leave a platform and land on stage while holding Z, you will immediately perform a grab when the active frames end. Kirby’s down-b will not slide on the top left platform of Kongo Jungle 64. It will slide on the right platform and the bottom stage ramps, however. This fact was used by Triple R to defeat BunBun (another Kirby main) in a long ago Kirby ditto.
When Melee first came out, I had been a Kirby player in OG Smash. Coming into the game I obviously picked Kirby first, and *immediately* felt the difference. For decades I have lived with the assumption that Sakurai nerfed Kirby into the ground because of how dominant he had been in OG, and this video only solidifies that belief.
triple R has beat Kels several times with Kirby and other prominent midwest players which is for sure a bigger accomplishment than beating Blur/drunk armada
Your videos are always something I look forward to :) I'm not even a Melee player, I only played Ultimate for ~1 year Thanks for this amazing content!!
*I did not need to see a pregnant sakurai today but thank you for that* 😂 Also, I got so excited seeing this pop up in my notifications! Your videos are the best! Also also, Double Dedede at 6:44 brings me great joy
Kirby's dash attack isn't actually ALL bad. There's a really goofy little tech you can do with it where if you dash attack off of the edge of a platform, you can cancel it into a grab once you touch the ground. Look up "kirby dash attack cancel" if you want to see it ^^
True! Though it seems accidental, it always feels like Kirby in every subsequent smash game was an overcorrection for being one of the most broken characters in 64. Despite everything, he’s still fun and funny to play though!
@@maskeraider If Sakurai didn't care about looking biased or if someone else developed Smash as the leader, I'm sure Kirby would be better. Start by giving him a new moveset that represents his series better. I hope that the next smash is a reboot.
I love how people always say Kirby needs a moveset that represents his series "better"... I agree that he needs a better moveset, but outside of his Smash Attacks and Tilts...his series is pretty well represented in his moveset. There's a lot of room for improvement and just more creative abilities.
I have a vivid memory of playing a demo version of melee on a display cabinet outside of Babbage's a bit before it came out. My older brother and I picked our smash 64 mains, Samus and Kirby respectively. I lost, and remember feeling like I just couldn't accomplish anything for some reason. Even at the age of 10, with no understanding of frame data, neutral, or really anything approaching fighting game fundamentals, I could still tell that melee Kirby was trash.
I have never played Melee in my entire life and most likely will never do that in the future, but your videos are just made so fucking well, and the way you present them (editing, sound design) is just very fun to look at, and even as someone who cant really get any use of the information youre telling, its still very interesting.
I may not play much Melee anymore, but I always love seeing your videos! They're great and informative on even the smallest things, keep up the amazing work!
Sakurai decided after Kirby being a high tier in 64, he needed to screw him over in melee. Truly an act of tough love, to teach him how to lose gracefully
I always memed that Kirby is top tier, because he possessed a little bit of the best attacks from top tiers. Jigglypuff BAir Fox USmash C Falcon UAir I mean they are much weaker variants, but its a fun thought
When I was a kid, I played Melee a lot, and I *always* played as Kirby. I was pretty bad at the game, and it wasn't until many years later that I learned that Kirby was bad. My reaction was something like "oh, that explains it".
10:23 oh please keep going, it gets worse If you get hit out of Kirby's up-b, you lose all your jumps - you can actually see it in the clip shown for this too, he should've had 5 jumps left but doesn't recover to ledge bc he lost them getting hit out of up-b
That's not necessarily exclusive to Kirby, though. With Jigglypuff, Yoshi and his exception, everyone loses their double jump as soon as they Up-B (also true for a few other specials). HOWEVER Kirby only loses his jumps if he gets hit out of the uppercut portion onward of Up-B!
I main kirby in ssbu, mainly because I just really like him. but i also think it's because I want to prove something, like yes his hitboxes are short, yes he's slow, yes he's not the best, but I'm still wining with him. Even if it takes a while. And something about beating some bahemoth with this tiny little pink marshmallow is really satisfying.
Kirby's dash attack isn't all that bad. It's the only dash attack that can be canceled after the attack has come out. You have to do it off a platform and can only cancel it into a grab on the frame you land on the stage, but it's something. Also, worth noting, once Kirby has inhaled you offstage, you're better off forcing the stock trade than trying to mash out. Weird little factoid about the Kirby match-up.
That's true but it doesn't actually force the trade, if the Kirby player has good timing. There's about a two frame window between the inhaled character dying and Kirby dying, during which he can jump to recover. I used to be pretty good at it.
me and my friends play ultimate, but we still all still love watching your videos and talk abt them and the cool melee shit we learned from ur videos. you even inspired us to try melee through slippy so we could try some cool jank, i just really love and appreciate your videos and love when you upload
I like what you said at the end I use to look up top players of the lower tier characters just to see what they could do with the character it's cool to see
i play some seth in street fighter v, who has a mechanic that allows him to copy his opponent's moves and use them as a single-use consumable, and it's really fun to discover what moves each character gives him and the unique voice lines he has using them. It's disappointing that melee kirby sucks this much, i'd love to go online and meme on people with their own attacks
There's not much to it in Melee... but the Copy meta is strong in later games. Several specials are put to far better use in Kirby's moveset, or else are actually an extremely useful tool in that matchup. There are still some pretty useless ones, but there are a few matchups where if Kirby can get and keep that special, he's in a very, very strong position. I know Ridley is one of the best. Kirby uses the fireballs far better, and can be far more aggressive with them, while the move itself is hell for Ridley to try and deal with. King K.Rool as well.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 I don't really care much for the meta stuff, I just enjoy running meme stuff online and making it work, and sadly melee kirby is pretty much unworkable even if you aren't trying to meme to begin with. besides I don't even have any interest in smash ultimate online, I don't have switch online and even if I did the netcode is complete doodoo
@@fatyoshi696 Oh, Kirby vs Ridley is an absolute meme matchup. Especially once Kirby gets that Neutral Special, the game often turns into a weird staring and poking contest. Ridley completely snuffs Kirby's approach game... but Ridley legitimately has a hard time approaching Kirby, especially if Kirby has that neutral special copied. The result is a sort of awkward game of shuffling and feints, until someone gets bored and impatient, and wins or loses based entirely on twitch reactions.
I picked up Kirby and Yoshi on our primary school's N64 (that me and my friends fixed) solely because swallowing my opponents annoyed the shit out of them. Picked up Cloud two years back but those two are still my mains because you haven't seen someone angry until you drop them off a cliff for the 16th time in a round.
