When beliefs become identities, truth-seeking becomes hard 

Pierogies

Everyone that I've known imagines that they are truth seekers and that they care about truth, so it might have been good to mention here that Julia defines truth seeking and the scout mindset in terms of concrete concepts such as Baysian reasoning and the like. So her recommendation is distinctly different from the sentiment of wanting truth that most people hold. The book helps enlighten the reader to where they fail as truth seekers and how to improve.

Wait a sec. Are you the safety in AI guy?

@@conorhealy2763 Ha! I was thinking of asking the same question. He sounds just like him. Robert Miles, right?

What about ravioli?

I’m voting vegan next elections bruh

@@tomdagan9878 Like Todd said : " I don't want any damn vegetables"

Democrats hate the right wing, Republicans hate the left wing and Vegans hate the chicken wing.

Damn vegans! They ruined Vegas!

Kinda reminds me of self-fulfilling prophecy- if you believe that you are a failure that can do nothing, you become a failure that can do nothing. The odd thing about this is that, even if you happen to be right in your assessment if being a failure that can do nothing, you have to delude yourself into believing that you’re not to be able to do anything. Basically, you know how those extreme Democrats, Republicans, and Vegans believe in things so hard that they attempt to unify with them and actually twist the world to obey them? Do that. (Note: The Republicans are actually a “good” example of this- they managed to overturn abortion in the states they dominate in. While I don’t agree with it, it’s still impressive.)

And the realization that I will always want health and happyness for myself and my loved ones is also an important one, many beliefs are not debatable but rather sacred.

That seems to have been the loss which has made such a hash of discourse on the web and in the world. You must be respectful if you wish to convince someone to change their mind. Yet so much of discourse is not about changing minds, but preforming an expression of identity via opposition. An activity that is enjoyable to the one doing it (at least in theory) but accomplishes no good for the others involved.

While true. It's also true that insulting them might convince someone else. "Anti vaxxer" being made synonymous with "idiot" has probably saved a lot of lives.

Yes yes, but, is it _reality_ or just our _observation of reality_. But in that case, there is no clear right or wrong and more data is needed.

​@@charksey it's not always necessary to warp reality in our minds and stay unsure. Yes, most of our views, as humans, are subjective until they're tried and practiced multiple times to be proven objective, like science. But most of the time, reality is obvious and evident, we just like to dismiss it for the sake of incongruous ambiguity or just to not offend other people's beliefs, which the guy had just established as things that merge with our identities that make us more defensive for them.

Done. I definitely need more information about belief and pitfalls of strongly identifying with them.

I agree

Almost to 20k now what was it at when you posted this

I forgot but my gut tells me around or below 10k

Why did I read that as "Submissives"?

The Trots have been being told this for the past 90 years and they just split the party whenever it comes up again

This is exactly wrong. There are mountains and mountains of evidence that anti-truth-seeking behavior is more common, or even arguably fundamental, on the right wing. Failing to point that out is the great mistake of this video, and your comment proves how harmful that is and how easily a viewer (e.g. you) can misapply this video to reconfirm your own pre-existing "anti-politics" bias, which is an inherently anti-truth-seeking framework.

@@EASYANSWERS if you equate the broad identity label of "right wing politicians" with the broad wing identity label "anti-truth seeking behavior" i feel like you missed the whole point of the video... "What is truth" is a different question from "what is right or left wing politics". Sure, conservative individuals might be less open to new ideas (by definition), but If truth is the goal, you have to ask yourself "which solutions get you closer to the truth" If you think "identifying with left wing politics" is one of those solutions, i challenge you to find a more procedural solution, rather than one based on an identity label.

@@oliver_siegel yeah no, this just tells me you lack a nuanced political analysis and don't really understand what these terms mean lol. they're not "identity terms," they have specific ideological and moral content that dictates the kinds of procedures and tactics they use to achieve their ends.

@@EASYANSWERS do you believe political views are accurately categorizable within a 1 dimensional spectrum? Left to right?

Claiming an identity and defending it is the essence of the soldier identity. The way to identify a true scout is that they only loosely hold on to their identity and are willing to doubt it, question it or change it, or ignore it in favor of talking about the topic of discussion.

This is a solution intended to move the absolutest towards including evaluating evidence in their reasoning once again if they've decided there is no more need to attend to evidence at all (or simply filter evidence according to what they already decided the "truth" is, ignoring all else). If someone is already absolute in their belief they will always be a staunch defender of their position (identity) regardless of the "truth". For me the term "truth" lends itself too easily to absolutist positions because it implies we can know something for certain. What we get to know in practice is an assessment of some claim made about the world being consistent with the model we have of the world. The greater the inconsistency the more pressure there is to change the model to accommodate the inconsistency so that it "makes sense" within the model. This can, from time to time, mean a radical change to the model of the world in use. Obviously not to be undertaken lightly as such a change requires a reevaluation of all other claims made, i.e. what some evidence means with respect to the model of the world in general and whether it's still consistent with the model of the world you have. It's easy to get into the position where we don't see value in changing the model of the world any more and thereby the usefulness of evidence drops to zero.

​@@rivetace interesting is when what is said isn't what's done.

Nah. The real problem is the obsession of having an identity in the first place. Having such a strong urge to the point where you absolutely HAVE TO partake in it is nothing short of a giant red flag for emotional & mental immaturity.

LOL 😆

If only you were funny 😅

Cool word play

That's actually a good point! Our beliefs form our identity, and people who have a strong sense of self, or EGO are often prone to being stubborn... Learning how to hack your identity at the core level is key... We wanna be sovereign individuals with free will, and not be pushovers, but we have to balance it with the needs and desires of others. Then of course we end up with Karl Popper's "Paradox of tolerance" which states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant.

sex

Yeah, same here! Let's come up with some sort of name for ourselves so we can more easily refer to people with the same beliefs as us, and by doing so make it easier for people with opposing ideologies to mock us without engaging with our ideology!

@@rivetace How about something like 'the ironics' sounds strong like iron.

Hmm then how about you share this video subscribe and like every video the guy has

Unfortunately RU-vid channels are quite grabby 😅

GET OUT XD

Why be a scout or soldier when you can be an engineer.

@@seldomstudios6351 Or a Demo

It's not a paradox per se, but it can happen. It's the ego of not having an ego and it's a trap some people definitely fall into. The trick is to be fully transparent with yourself, self reflect and improve your skill at recognizing your inner feelings/thoughts. The detail is to notice when you feel superior. So by noticing it you can notice when you're using your identity of not having an identity in a bad way. Ultimately you must not feel superior to anyone, even if they identify strongly with something you consider bad. But that's much easier said than done. Old habits die hard so just learning about identities and how they can be harmful isn't enough to dissolve a habit. That stuff takes time and effort.

Well I think it would only become a problem in the real world if you let your scout identity prevent you from engaging with soldiers. Once you take the mindset of its pointless to talk with someone who will never change their mind this becomes a self fulfilling profacy. People can change their mind no matter how deep in they've gotten. It takes a lot of patience and time with people that don't belittle you. Even if you won't change someone's mind engage any way. Get their point of view, give them yours, understand them. Even if you don't feel like they've made any progress you've made progress by getting a more accurate and complete view of a person with this beliefs

@@IamJenJen101 Very well put.

@@Alexman208GR thank you!

@@Alexman208GR “It’s the ego of not having an ego and it’s a trap some people definitely fall into.” * slams desk *, THANK YOU ! This is the quintessential trap for/characteristic to the Centrists; those at the NOT-forefront of battlefield, fence-sitting, that sort of general thing, with many differences & non-negligible gross details Most of the people in this video’s comment are susceptible Analogically, the flaw of the Left would be, uuuh, the implementation of their ideals through censorship, force, neglect, depriorization of more important emergencies, selfish dehumanization; and all of that enabled and having come about from the social media and mainstream support, copying the same general ideas fundamental to the movement (at least those best suited to be copied like that, whether or not they’re a better version or not) into as many of the connected (and possibly already primed, through different/unrelated reasons) minds of the very liberal AND (nor or, there’s a starch distinction) moderately leftist zeitgeist; like an unregulated and overkill super-growth of your crops to cover and clutter every nook & cranny of sunlight with foliage, and adding little germinating plants where nothing’s grown yet, and leaving no room for anything new to come in, whether if that change is needed or not And then, the problem of the Right is them, like “reacting” to the Left, moreso then defending their own ideas, you know ? And reacting to the Left so passive-aggressively, arrogantly, antagonizingly, in their unique way that keeps everything so bottled up because they never let it out into the streets like BLM or Antifa, barring the Capitol disaster With all their smug, insufferable, arrogant tones in their shitty videos just as pedantic and agenda’d & laser-focused dribble & videos compiling SJW fails or letting their dark, *fuming* , *FOAMING* rage they have for all those people; I mean, it’s its own thing than the The Young Turks & HasanAbi, and don’t have at least the MSM media’s apathy & greed motive preventing from even hating on the conservative counterparts that they negatively paint; and like, they won’t shut up about “facts & logic” and shit, and how the entire battle is about those who believing the correct right & wrong and those who don’t (while also letting their own members think what they want to or have arrived at, which coincides, to most of these therefore pretending idiots, with their own conclusions; as long as it’s not a liberal belief or a pro-Establishment position, since, for most of them, and with how low & unspecific they are with that bar of standards for what determines valid & excusable self-determination, is somehow the “wrong opinion” for most of them - but not all, like Shane “pro-vaxx” Killian -) I mean, the premise of the mode of thought that’s seemingly so much less inquisitive of their own member’s correct mode of thought & belief lies on the expectation of the complete opposite : Resting on the luck that the general population that they were inherited with already had the convictions needed so that they wouldn’t to force them to change their minds at all in order to get them to be so libertarian & independent… they’re one of the most hypocritical of the bunch, and Boomers are certainly a main aspect of it, but there’re plenty of newer branches very different to them in many key points and subjects of interest To them, there’s no difference between being fundamentally wrong and not having properly argued or explained the idea itself in their presence, and they can keep on with that flaw and do things with that misconception And it seems like it’s only THEY have this problem, while the Left seems to more have aggression issues & polarization problems : They seem to _run_ on ad hominems; if you act like a psycho, then it rubs off on your ideology too, like it’s some sort of counter-argument; they just don’t consider it, not as much as if you seemed to have been “elevated” somehow by that belief alone despite all the shit they could’ve said in retort and no matter how shit their delivery of those retorts was

Let the West be a lesson. They won't stop pushing the line.

@@chrimony What do you mean with "They won't stop pushing the line" Do you mean the conservatives try harder and harder to remove the rights of people?

@@spliter88 When they have men in dresses and clown makeup reading to children you'll know what I mean.

​@@chrimony Yeah I know what you mean, and it's a shame people like you are so entrenched in their identity politics that they refuse to connect to people different from yourself on a human level.

@@spliter88 It's a shame that people like you let predators prey on children in the name of tolerance.

I agree. I'm autistic and thus can't stay neutral because, as you mentioned, I would have gotten killed by extremists like the Nazis. There also is still hostility within society in the form of misunderstanding or outright mockery (like "autist" as an insult or many things denoted as "cringe" being in connection to autistic behaviors) as well as bullying. And - of course - who can forget the complicated societal systems that are even worse for someone autistic. Even though I'm comparatively in a good place, my life still once went downhill due to those to the point that I seriously considered suicide. (luckily I'm better off now) If you have the freedom to consider every opinion, be aware that not everyone is so lucky.

I suggest Combat Liberalism by Mao, it's really just a detail breakdown of rooting out this stuff in an organization

I’m gonna use this.

@@fudgen.a1249 I've been thinking about writing a book with the techniques and tricks I've tried over the years. Maybe it's time to stop thinking about it and actually do it.

@@DeMonSpencerI wish you luck with your endeavors then!

@@fudgen.a1249 Thanks. I really appreciate that.

What insight?

I'm hoping to let my child watch these videos when they are older. They resonate with my way of thinking. It's not easy to hold one's identity 'lightly' especially when you need at least SOME grounding in reality. Otherwise one just floats and does not really--contribute or create in any way. And I feel humanity is at its best when they are out there creating something. :)

@@thedivineshinsoo9771 yes thank you. Identity is foundational to our cores. We can't go to the extreme of not having identity... But good on you and anyone else raising kids that are secure enough and flexible enough that they can adapt to new information that may challenge some of their beliefs over lifetime. 👍

Awareness is already something. It's enough for the attachment to drop over time as you start to be more aware of it.

If one has the truth, should they not defend it?

@@notyetdeleted6319 The issue with that is the assumption that one has “the truth”. This is a lot more difficult than it sounds. We live in a chaotic world (literally a world with topological mixing within periodic orbits with high sensitivity to initial conditions), which makes true knowledge difficult to obtain. Furthermore, there are numerous epistemological problems that need to be overcome including but not limited to: The problem of induction, the second problem of induction, paradigmatic bias, personal bias, and political and values bias (particularly left-wing bias in the social sciences, as has been noted in several articles). In conclusion, one should be very self-skeptical about having knowledge.

@@adammyers3453 well said

I was once told the truth is like a lion, it but needs to be set free to defend itself. But with mental gymnastics being the most popular sport in my country, most would ignore it until it's on their turn. I'm all for setting it free, and keeping it from being locked up. But a LOT of people are using this armchair philosophy to confirm their own bias instead of reflect like this video was trying to suggest.

People already looking me weird or laughing out for not liking or listening to 1 or 2 songs

half of philosophers are realist about aesthetics and believe there is indeed objective aesthetic value so yeah... I don't think it's that straightforward

objective : survive

Well, it depends on how that belief hurts others. Whether it's a "I must hurt people who don't have this belief" or a "I feel hurt because of that person's belief"

If moral realism is false then it has the consequence that all forms of morality is opinion. I and many others wish to life in a world in which people care for each other but for such a world to exist we have to pretend that the life of a human has a moral value. The pragmatic has it easy, he does not have any problem to believe in something as long as it is useful to guide action even if it does not correspond to reality. But for realists like me it is hard to accept, I can only hope that I find a good reason to believe in moral realism and end my inner conflict.

@@plantae420 While all forms of morality might be an opinion, not all opinions are equally valid or result equally beneficial laws and rules for people to follow. Human life doesn't need to have an absolute moral value for humans to value their own lives. Most people value their own life and that most people also care about other people than themselves (friends, family, their community, or a more general caring for people), then it's in everyone's best interest to create a society where no matter who you are you have a baseline of respect, and where the society you create is fair to everyone, because if it can be unfair to anyone, then it can be unfair towards you and people you care about. Even a perfectly rational selfish person, will still want a fair society, while at the same time will try to subvert it for its own benefit, but a perfectly rational selfish being would also try to make sure that others don't subvert it for their own benefit. However humans are neither perfectly rational nor are they perfectly selfish, which is why it's possible to create a society that overall values people more, though with pockets of unfairness and abuse. In a fair society the people that don't value other people's lives and attack other people's rights, would have their own rights removed to prevent them from doing so. Therefore you don't need for human life to have any absolute value, all you need is each human to have their own values and have to live together with other humans.

I suggest a series of videos called "the alt-right playbook" for trying to communicate for those on the start of the dunning-krueger effect bell curve that are Americans with conservative beliefs. Be warned that most of them are just looking to *feel* right and like they are winning not be correct. No matter if it's not something even close to ever being correct even, they are closer to flat earthers that politicly informed rational individuals.

@@chey7691 oh yes, 100%. and you already know your boy's an innuendo studio fan. Honestly that series and everything they do has been so insightful, cant get enough. With that woman I was talking about in my OP, The more I think about it the more I think she was kind of an outlier in terms of how she contextualized and how she rationalized her belief structure. I really don't like saying this, as much as I have a habit of using insults involving a persons intelligence when fucking with right wingers on twatter or whatever, I started thinking she was perhaps on the spectrum, or suffered from some learning disability. I say that because it was really fascinating to me how she allowed, or even wanted to spend a huge amount of time with me talking about politics. I can not begin to explain to you the detail I would go in when explaining shit that I might barely have the most basic level of knowledge about, for hours and hours and hours. Sometimes through texting, sometimes through phone calls and even in person sometimes. But getting her to start to even just try to understand something that wasn't already framed in a right wing perspective could take fucking hours dude. And I really, honestly try in all aspects of my life to be a kind, creative, and very importantly patient person when I feel someone wants me to share my knowledge with. I love learning, and I love being wrong because I love displacing old bad info with better info, but god fucking damn, when you're literally spending hours, HOURS trying to be like "OK carrie, yes lets try to break that down and explore that idea, tell me about what makes you believe that fauci is an evil communist, working for the elites, who's used tax payer money to fund research that intends to depopulate certain populations for political gain?" And it's like, how, you know, how the fuck can you even start with that? How unfamiliar with essentially every aspect of a logical reality that sets your brain up to accept that kinda of thing? the fucking amount of times I had to say "lets remember though, the vast majority of the worlds problems are quite complex, there isn't usually obvious black and white answers to this big societal problems" is probably burned into my phone because I said it so much. I'm not even scratching the surface, I'm telling you it was probably 1000's of hours of texts, calls, talks were I would try 10 ways to at least get her to back off of her golden retriever confidence on anything. She was not willing to budge on fucking anything. And if basicaly after hours going over maybe 4 sentences of an idea, she would seem like she was like ok hm that makes sense, she would forget it like hours after that, I had to start over 100 times. We talked about which groups in the US commit more political violence SO MANY TIMES and she would not budge. No data, numbers, news, articles, videos, her own fucking eyes, even just common sense thought exercises, the next day she'd be like "well I didn't think of this, all the plants at the capital were actually leftists, and the (whatever non affiliated group) has been using that to fudge the numbers and blah blah" endless, just, never could just have a fucking grown up adult talk, she's telling me antifa is sitting at MSNBC literally investing fake news stories about trump that are flat out lies and people are accepting it. lol I just, it hurts my brain. BRO I'm sorry for fucking rambling, I eventually told her that I felt I was putting in legitimate effort to engage by like, reading articles she wanted, or watching this youtube channel or that one, or investigate a person or idea or you get it. I would spend lots of time, on lots of shit, so I could earnestly have a conversation but she'd ALWAYS handwave, think I must SOMEHOW be wrong so it didn't matter that she had no way to counter the factual information I worked to bring her, every time. Then, I would ask her to do the smallest thing like read a fucking Wikipedia about personal bias or something and she couldn't ever find the time so I said you know what, fuck this. but I really still do believe that she wasn't like "oh well I'm gonna make him do all this stuff than ignore it and be intellectually dishonest, or I'm gonna argue in bad faith cause I'm here to troll" or whatever. She really just maybe had really terrible memory, very likely ADHD, a hard time listening and processing and just she felt that "just because you bring up bullet proof, empirical evidence doesn't mean I can't find SOME crank who knows how to prove you wrong and will just tell me I'm right, and that's easier/less stressful/current worldview confirming" with zero critical thinking skills, just none. FUCK thanks for letting me vent, it probably sounds like Im a nutjob but it was just surreal, such a bizarre person and experience. cheer bro