Who Was the False Primarch? 

Before you ask, yeah I know about the chair squeaking in the background my chair got busted some how, I ordered a new one, but I had to get this video out and couldn't wait! Sorry if it's annoying!

I have a theory that the False Primarch was actually 7 Nurglings in a trench coat, but I have yet to find compelling evidence to prove this.

One of the reasons for why the high lords didn't just use the minotaurs is that they didn't exist yet since the war happened in M33 and the minotaurs are part of the cursed founding which happened in M35

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="51">0:51</a> Killing billions of people in battles, limiting intergalactic Space Marine chapters to only 1000 marines, and anything involving Warhammer pricing made me realize something: GW just doesn't understand how numbers work.

My personal headcanon is that the false primarch was a genestealer patriarch that had been able to infiltrate and infect the 11 chapters.

The False Primarch was actually Alpharius who decided to do some trolling. On a more serious note it would be an Alpha legion move to have the 5 space marine chapters destroy 11 loyalist chapters by deceiving the 11 into thinking it was a loyalist Primarch returning

I always presumed that it was just a dude who managed to abuse their power while convincing a bunch of space marines to defect from the Imperium, with the original leader became defied by the renegades, gaining the title of Primarch during the conflict before dying and having his superficial title being the only thing that remained.

It's you... You're the False Primarch.

How many war crimes do you want in your campaign? High Lords of Terra: YES

The Nova Terra Interregnum is another great example of a seemingly massive event that only ever got a tiny lore blurb. The entire thing is obviously just a tongue in cheek reference to the West-East Roman Empire divide, Nova Terra apparently also being known as 'Constantinium', but it's still crazy that their was apparently another planet able to rival Terra for power and influence and hold out against the Imperium for 900 years.

Probably a not fully completed primarch clone that fabius released for fun

Can't wait to get a book about it and at the very end when the false primarch is dying the last thing he sees is a flash of green light and a necron saying "no no no this will not do"

Another example of a tiny blurb with huge implications is the Constantinus Iconoclism, a 200+ year war between 3 chapters of marines, 12 guard regiments, and many more against various chaotic rabble led by like 3 space marines

Ch-arnel Guard are my jam. (Carnal is a word that would be appropriate for a Slaanesh Chaos War Band...a Charnel House is a place where corpses are processed)

I'm really curious about the giant freaky shark that tyberose keeps as a pet

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="498">8:18</a> fun fact about the red talons get their name comes from the flagship of a Horus heresy era captain of clan morralgul Autek mor clan morralgul was where all the extremely volatile recruits were sent and when I say Volatile I mean it because autek mor nuked a moon so hard he knocked it out of orbit then he landed a bunch of marines and auxiliaries onto a world eaters planet that had Titan legions stationed on it just to get some cryopod and then ordered a retreat right before the moon collided with the planet

CHARNEL GUARD CH CH CH Carnal Guard would be a Slaaneshi warband.

Didn't The Iron Hands try that already? Putting Ferrus Manus' severed head on a robot, i mean

I swear I am Vulcan! "You cannot be Vulcan! You look half orc!"

This reminds me of that time a blood angel thought he was Sanguinius and caused a civil war in his own chapter.

I think the point of using fear based chapters was so there tactics would break down the false primarchs' confidence

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="279">4:39</a> Um, no, the most volatile and dangerous loyalist geneseed is that of the Space Wolves.

This event is very notable for the sheer amount of time this event took. 80 years (I think) is an unusually long amount of time for something like this. Even the Heresy, or the Siege of Vracks took no more than 20 years and they were considered noteworthy

The Badab War would be great material for a book series

Bonesy, it's definitely *Ch*arnel Guard not Carnal with a hard C. 'Carnal Guard' sounds like slaaneshi sex marines lol. Dictionary pronunciation of Charnel is with a Ch/Sh sound as well.

It was a Thunder Warrior Primarch.

I like to think it was a Successor to the Blood Angel's that fell to the black rage and managed to keep their shit together long enough to be a problem.

I reckon the High Lords got the Mechanicus to try and clone/recreate a Primarch but the subject went rogue. It wouldn’t be unprecedented since the Mechanicus DID create a Primarch sized Marine during the Cursed Founding which is now in the hands of Fabius Bile.

I think itd be a good book series if the false primarch wasnt just some power hungry space marine but a non chaos corrupted renegade with good intentions, maybe even have something to do with clones or the new lore with the primarchs souls. A tragic tale because honestly, with the loyalist space marine chapters sent to deal with the renegades, they sound like villains, they being the loyalists

Food for thought "11 legions" = the 11th primarch? Or perhaps Subject-11? (or whatever it was called that eacaped the vaults of terra) Mabye, they are both the same thing

You totally forgetting that Pater Mutatis (a.k.a. uncle Fabius) cloned multiple Primarchs - and done that aaaaall the way back around time of Heresy's End/Long war's start.

Arthur so caked up he busted a chair Also CHARNEL GUARD MY BELOVED legitimately they are one of if not the coolest back ground space marine chapter and Aaron D Bowden may or may not be writting a book on them for a very cool reason you'll see in the heresy

Could have been a thunder warrior leader aka a Primarch. Yes that was their title in lore

I feel like alpharius and omegon have to have a 3rd brother. I feel like they were writting toward that. This was during the 3rd sommers brother hype in marvels comics, which it kinda seemed like they were reading overall.

i remember reading some theory that every chapter in the Pentarchy is a "secret" Nightlord succesor chapter and this was tied into the false primarch being curz related, idk how well it fits with all the chapters having a confirmed geneseed but its sounds cool

Charnal Guard = Zephons bois, deffo Blood Angels succsessors.

Plot twist images it was just two skaven in a human suit And skaven yet?

I personally hope they don't flesh this one out. Our imagination is better than the potential explanation and GW track record at the moment for lore is abysmal. There's too much vagueness, so GW would have to drip feed details like mention in passing a chapter that was expunged by the pentarchy. So they'd probably mess it up. That said, I would like a loose end tied off in Arik Taranis from the heresy. Thunder warriors commanders were known as 'primarchs' so maybe he took up the title. How he gained leadership over 11 space marine chapters though would be a truly epic story in and of itself. Maybe he got help from Fabius Bile...?

wow, i was just watching your video on the 11th legion from a year ago last night. I was left wishing for more and then i wake up today to find this new vid drop. awesome.

The theory I subscribe to with the war of the false primarch is that fabius bile did what he does and made another primarch like horus or the other one he created. If we knew which chapters defected and who they came from, we could even know why they left. Maybe 11 imperial fist successors followed the false clone of rogal dorn

God I love that art at the beginning, Hawtdawg65 did an incredible job with it.

Thank you for covering this! I'd love to see a book series come from this.

The gene blight of the emperor's children is sitting in the corner crying over not being noted among major geanseed flaws

.... ooops all primarchs? *lets myself out*

Might be a lost one or a clone. Since Primarchs have an aura that gives them some control over the Marines

The False Primarch, I think, was probably just a incredibly powerful Pysker who deluded themselves into thinking they were a primarch, but due to their such deep delusion, coupled with their incredible power, it became sort of real because they bought into their hype that much. It could have also been coupled with belief in him by others who thought he was a primarch, and leading to a sort of positive feedback loop. It could go a long way to explaining, why marines that specialize in decimating and terrorizing their enemies where chosen, since, if people were too scared to believe, they couldn't empower the false primarch.

GW has so many great stories it could tell but they're happy leaving them as footnotes in a codex right next to a blurb over the suspension of a taurox over a bumpy hill.

About the false Primarchs, the real options are: - A very convincing Omegon poser - A clone with some kind of surrogate "soul juice" - Chaos turning some marine into a prime (happened once if i'm not wrong, something related to Mephiston) In any case, those 11 chapters were chumps if those 5 did wipe them out.

I could be wrong, but to my knowledge the Blood Angels' gene-seed is the third most unstable loyalist gene-seed with the two most unstable being the Space Wolves' and the Salamanders' gene-seed

Considering that we are talking about a significant amount of chapters turned traitor, that supposed to be a hell of a space marine to lead them and impersonate a primarch. My money could be on Fabius Bile and one of his creations: it could be a clone of one of the loyal pimarch - and while that would explain the sheer size of a conflict, it could also explain why the outcome was in favor of the Imperium. It could also be a perfect opportunity for us to look at the soft "Alternate Heresy" from the perspective of a clone - how he perceve the Imperium, how he became more and more horrified at the dectruction of Emperor legacy. It wood be cool to see how desperation could eventually lead to his rebellion against the Imperium. Funny thing would be if the clone woudn't even now about his nature, thinking that he was the real thing only to get himself killed by somebody like Tyberos "The Red Wake".

Curling my toes watching this

The Charnel guard should be renamed to the Carnal guard as the implication of them guarding against their own lower nature would fit better

Malibron. Rainbow Warriors. Deathstrike Marines.

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="317">5:17</a> "Charnel" It's definitely _CHarnel_ guard, not "CARnal" guard. One's related to the term 'charnel house', the other pronunciation sounds like you're discussing something involving sexual intercourse.

I think it could have been one of Cawl's experiments gone rogue

For the first video I've seen of you I love your way of making lore videos I'm definitely gonna listen to you more

False Primarch could have been a Thunder Warrior. Physically larger than a normal Marine. They would have first/secondhand knowledge of the Emperor from Unification/Early Imperium no one else would. Not possessing any of the Astartes organs (Thunder Warriors were genetically modified similar to the Custodians but less ‘refined’), what chapters after the Heresy and disappearance/loss of the all the Primarchs would know what exactly went into their creation? Ushotan survived Mt Arrat but was killed later (with a force of Thunder Warriors and rebels) by Valdor. A Thunder Warrior helped organize a rebellion against the Emperor. Ghota survived into the Heresy and studied Marine Gene Seed to try and save himself and other Thunder Warriors from genetic degradation. During the crusade/heresy era Marines did know that the Primarch was basically a different type of Astartes (knew they had two hearts etc) but also mentioned multiple times that they had a very limited understanding of the physiology of the Primarchs when it came to trying to mend injuries/help them recover. Suddenly a huge guy with charisma (no Astartes programming + fully developed human personality) shows up talking about his adventures with the Emperor from the Crusade. Tells everyone that he knows the next move. Practically insane and gets wiped by first concentrated resistance effort by Imperium. Sound like a good way to go out in any Thunder Warriors’s book.

Probably either one of the missing primarchs (doubtful) or a space marine who got so juiced up on chaos energy that he got confused for a primarch.

Writing this before I watch, THIS IS GONNA BE SO HEAT HOLY FUCK

Well, Primarchs have an aura of warp-demigod charisma. Sending chapters that ARE ABSOLUTELY UNHINGED and scare THE LIVING FUCK out everyone... seems like a good go-to.

The false primarch can't be the 11th primarch because #11 is largely believed (based on basically no evidence) to be Subject XI that is being held in the Dark Cells on Terra

The War of the False Primarch was not retconned per se, but it was mostly abandoned because of the lore that was developed during the Horus Heresy series. Right up to Lion, Son of the Forest, much is made about the psychological affect primarchs have on the Astartes. Not just their own gene father, but any Primarch. Dante even says when he meets Lion that he knew Lion was the real deal because of the “bearing” a Primarch has, which Dante recognized from meeting Guilliman. The Imperial Fists under Courland who went to find Vulkan during the War of the Beast were in awe of Vulkan just from seeing him. Azrael knew the Lion was the Lion because his “blood was singing”. Therefore, it makes it rather hard to believe that other Space Marines were unable to recognize an imposter. It just runs counter to what we know of the effects Primarchs have on people, even if the person never met a Primarch before. More likely, this was just blatant heresy that the heretics attempted to cloak with a baseless claim. That would explain the choice of chapters sent to deal with them. It was a message to other chapters: don’t play stupid games, unless you want to win stupid prizes.

Would definitely like a book series on this event. Seems like the Scouring is probably gonna be next that the Heresy is done so maybe we'll get the False Primarch after that.

Good to see that more and more people delve into the subject, although we don't have much to read about it. For all interested, I can recommend a nice fan project about this war. The name is +Some Things Are Best Left Forgotten+

I'd watch that meta video about yt stuff affecting creators

I would kill for a book about war of the false primarch.

I always thought this bit of lore was great for homebrewing story ideas and bits of lore. For example, I made this a devastating defeat for my homebrew chapter, the Angelic Stars, who were knocked out of the war after being sent in on their own by the High Lords of Terra early on.

A super in depth video on he Pentarchy of Blood would be amazing.

I think it was just Rogal Dawn's spare hand. In a hand sized suit of armour, complete with fingy helmet that it used to do sock puppet mouth style speeches.

Chapter master of Carcharodons Tyberos the red wake is actually a substantially massive Astartes... so maybe even he learned something from that false primarch to make himself so big...

I would love to see a discussion panel with you, MajorKill, and Valrak! Could I be so lucky to have three of my favorite 40k juggernauts in one video!?

Terror tactics would probably help dispel the idea that the False Primarch was a Primarch.

Physical scars heal, but all of those worlds will have nightmares and tell stories of how the Emperor’s Angels slaughtered each other. That’s why I think they sent fear based chapters.

Maybe the false primarch was ole Constantin Valdor?

Charnel guard are one of the original successor chapters. Dominion zephon, a blood angel who served during the heresy, kicked that one off after the heresy ended and the legions were split to 1000 max. They are 200% a blood angels successor

I would definitely be interested in how the small things affect youtube

Imagine all those guys have on some sort of level of traitor geneseed

It would definitely be a fun thought experiment to lay out the War of False Primarch's plot. Who was he? Who were the chapters that sided with him? How did the war go down? Its such a neat concept that I'm genuinely surprised there's so little lore on it.

Fun fact (if no one already beat me to it lol): The Charnel Guard were founded by Dominion Zephon of the Blood Angels after the Heresy. Zephon was a pretty chill dude until i think 3 or all 4 of his limbs got taken off by Eldar, and he got sent by Sanguinius to be the BA’s primary representative on Terra. Dude was an absolute badass in helping with the War in the Webway, being a chill dude if a bit melancholic and subtly full of fuck-mad rage at his handicapped state with shitty augmetics. Man could play the harp so well it made mutants weep, comforted imperial children made into refugees by the Heresy, became buddy-cops with Arkhan Land, charged a daemon-possessed Mechancium facsimile of a primarch, and made an Imperial Knight house matriarch blush when he came to her rescue. It’s also noted that, while all blood angels have fangs, Zephon’s were distinctively long and pronounced, something which carried on to the Charnel Guard. Ngl one of my favorite characters.

Badab War is also early war. Like before the Heresy was the main focus Badab War was. The Badab War was the big plot point before Sisters of Battle existed.

Bro that Flesh Eater in the arts really living up to his name.

The reason why only 5 chapters won against 11 chapters is cause 4 of them attacked the main planet with the Primarch on it , while the Red Talons were doing the Autek Morr thing and were just throwning moons at the rest of the occupied planets.

I think the reason why they gave a bunch of chapters with a reputation for killing other Space Marines and of being able to utilize themselves as terror troops is they wanted to set an example. That example being "the Primarchs are revered as archangels in our faith, do not abuse that in order to try and secede". And personally if you view it under that context then it does make quite a bit of sense why Huron when he did what he did was so wrapped up in imperial law even after it was clear that they were just going to kill him no matter what unless he found a way to assassinate the high Lords and the elements of the Inquisition that were screwing him over

I’m not sure how canon it is and I’m pretty sure that someone has already brought this up but your idea has support from the canon. What you describe is very close to a chaos plot to corrupt the Blood Angels by causing one of their space marines to suddenly grow wings, become a lot stronger, and start thinking he was Sanguinous reborn. If it can happen to a chapter as venerable as the Blood Angels I could easily see the same happening with younger chapters more isolated from the Imperium.

The false primarch was surviving Raptor Marine librarian whose geneseed mutated in a attempt to reverse engineer his geneseed, to the point that it started replacing host cells with donor cells.

Small note - the charnel guard is definitely a blood angels successor. They were founded by dominion zephon, noted blood angels hero of the heresy. There does seem to be some conflict with their progenitors, as the blood angels do not recognise them as successors. They did show up for the big bash on baal tho.

i would love a book like you sad, and i hope for some stories from it, maby as a new porjekt!

There's always the chance that the False Primarch was one of Fabius Biles' clone Primarchs who managed to escape / was released and caused some havoc in the Imperium. It's also worth considering that those 11 chapters could have been significantly under-strength, particularly if the rise of this False Primarch figure had triggered a schism amongst them. That would explain why only 5 chapters were sent to face off against 11.

I like to think it’s a marine that had Omegons blood give him a bit of his aura to pose as a Primarch effectively allowing a single marine to destroy 10 loyal chapters and damage 5 others as part of some scheme to steal an artifact or something

Do you remember the War of the False Primarch? Pepperidge farm doesn't... heresy charges are bad news.

The False Primarch could be some abomination has the golem the Iron Hands created with the arm of ferrus manus and the keys of hel.

You know, I just hope both sides had fun

I like to believe that the false Primarch was an imperfect clone Fabius Bile much like the clone of Horus, which was killed by Abaddon. One thing to remember that the war of the false Primarch talk about 80 years. It could have been sporadic open warfare combined with guerrilla hit and run tactics

I am actually currently working on some fan books to make this war playsble with the heresy 2.0 rules set. Liber Partisan, Liber Oblitus and Liber Pentarcia Sanguis. We have already made several hundred pages.

My theory is that it was a clone of a primarch. Maybe Angron, who originally failed to conquer/lead the world he landed on unlike the rest of his brothers. As a clone maybe he had much less power than his true copy, but was still able to rally 11 chapters to his side for unknown ends.

I bet the grey knights were there too, they just couldnt be kept on record so theyd stay secret.

CHarnel Guard. I assume the name refers to a Charnal House, a building where bodily remains or bones are stored; it can also refer to a particularly violent place as well.

A little sad you didn’t mention the Charnel Guard’s founder, Dominion Zephon. The Red Talons aren’t unlike the Iron Hands at all, they’re just the most transparent about how every Son of Ferrus feels. Iron Hands always get described in other faction’s books as being Spock levels of logical/tactical, but when you actually get to an Iron Hand PoV when they’re in melee or charging they’re out there with the fury of a Black Templar. The main difference between the Xth and Templars being the Iron Hands preference for ruthlessly wiping out their enemies versus glorious and honorable combat. The Red Talons are just the only Iron Xth who use their hate of traitors to bury their hate of themselves

Did some double checking on lore (source wiki+ Echoes of Eternity so take it with a grain of salt) but I realized why the Charnel Guard would’ve been in the position they were in (having a large amount of Heresy/Unification/Crusade era armor, being competent space marine killers and effective fighters against heretics and also why they aren’t totally acknowledged by the Blood Angels). Wiki reference: Charnel Guard were a First Founding Chapter of the Blood Angels line and their first Chapter Master was Zephon (Bringer of Sorrow and Lord of the Destroyer Host). My interpretation:Zephon made war by basically shooting nuclear weapons grade material around to poison the life out of worlds (and enemy combatants). Being one of the surviving Captains from the Siege it’s easy to understand how he’d get his silver hands on some of the best gear from the Legion armory after the Siege ended. I’d assume Zephon would’ve chosen the opposite of the Marines that Amit chose when Amit formed the Flesh Tearers, Amit chose the hottest headed most angry Marines for his Chapter. Zephon would’ve chosen the cold blooded, level headed, total war killers. In Echoes of Eternity: It is mentioned that Zephon would be ‘interred in black armor’ and would ‘go into stasis throughout the ages’ and would ‘rarely but occasionally correct the legends told of Sanguinius and the Heresy/Siege’. Zephon eventually came to a point where he made peace with his own death and only wanted to try and kill as many traitors before he went down (not exactly a new idea here I get that), any Marine who fought on Terra would’ve had plenty of time to prefect the art of killing traitor Marines, and understanding the role of the Destroyer Host as mentioned before it’s easy to see how that method of war would break the back of any traitor cause even if diluted after the Scouring/First Founding. Why were the Charnel Guard kept at a distance from the rest of the bloodline? I think a big part of it was when Zephon left the legion to attend Terra after his injuries. Sanguinius himself called Zephon (and Amit) one of his ‘disappointments’ among the Legion. Sanguinius and Zephon’s former Company wanted to honor Zephon during his journey to Terra and Zephon threw that honor (a master crafted sword given as a gift and likely commissioned by Sanguinius after he gave his own sword to his chosen successor) back in their face. Not a stretch for the rest of the Legion to hold a quiet grudge against him and his chapter for their leader turning his back on his Legion brothers during his grief at his injury and the thought of his end to combat service. TL;DR: Charnel Guard have a lot of ancient/powerful Legion weapons and being descended from the Destroyer Host from the original 9th Legion. Being veterans of the Siege they would be good traitor Marine killers. The Destroyer Host lineage would be good at breaking the will of cultists/traitor humans. Zephon formed the chapter, so he and the Charnel Guard were/are quietly disliked by the rest of Legion because Zephon had been under a cloud after some political/honor faux pas.

I hate the idea that everything like this is almost always chaos. Like "And it was revealed that it was actually the changeling." Instead, i think it owykd be cool if the False Primarch was actually Alpharius, or Omegon, depending on who actually died, and he PURPOSEFULLY strategically led those 11 chaoters to their death because of some currently unkown reason. Which would be especily cool if Omegon was actually loyal pretending to be a traitor