Why Are You Still Playing THAT Game? 

One I feel you may have missed: Sunk Cost. "I can't stop playing this game because I've already spent all this money on this game. I can't quit now." For a while, that was part of my reason for staying with GW. Made worse by the fact that I kept spending money on it. Eventually, I was able to walk away, and now I'm looking at things like Star Grave, Frost Grave, and One Page Rules as a new way to put that investment to use.

Thanks Adam... Not wargame related but I was feeling unhappy and this video made me think and made me happier, so thanks again.

I really love how you push the mentality of just play what you think is fun. I think too many people just get caught up in wanting to play things 'right' that they forget to have fun.

My two favourite games are Middle Earth Strategy Battle Game primarily due to the game mechanics though I do enjoy the lore and miniatures too. I also enjoy 40K 2nd edition for the skirmish scale of the game and the hand to hand combat mechanic.

Many years ago we played risk. We loved the game but often it was too slow. We ammended it so it moved faster. We called it blitz risk and played that version for years. Parker Brothers, never showed up and arrested us.

Amen to One Page Rules!! It’s like a heavy yoke being lifted from your shoulders.

I don't like the war games that are regularly played at the place I played war games but I feel like I have to play those games because I wouldn't be able to find opponents for games I actually want to play.

I recently fell in love with OPR, I cannot stand what I call "Overly complex for the sake of being complex" rules. Im a lore junkie, but when it comes to games I dont have the time or even the strength to play a game that is too complex these days. Im thankful I can play all my Warhammer models in OPR, I can even use my underworlds warbands!

So glad that you mentioned ONE PAGE RULES! I don’t know if it’s getting more popular right now, but I got into it and I really enjoy it. Also the models convinced me to buy a resin printer wich arrived today. I hope this getting more and more attention, and maybe GW react with streamline there rules and come up from this „well you have to buy 4 books for 130$ to be able to play Black Templars with the actual ruleset with your 500$ Army. Cant understand how kids should come from they pocketmoney into Warhammer.

When a new edition of 40k comes out I don't like the mechanics of I just play older editions. It's not that difficult to use the core rules and create your own games tweeking parts you don't enjoy.

I love 40k for the models and lore. The rules not so much. I have been looking at One Page Rules (mostly watching battle reports) and it looks very promising. I just need to find someone to try it with.

buddy and I have been playing 40k since early 3rd edition but realised we had grown to enjoy it less and less due to wonky rules, general imbalance, and expensive books. We tried Apocalypse for a while and that was pretty good, and then made the full switch over to OPR last year and now we're having a great time. Buddy has tried to get people at his local club interested in OPR as they all seem unhappy about 40k, but I think for them it's a sunk cost fallacy; they've put so much time into it they don't want to consider another game. I see the same in the rpg community, there are literally thousands of games out there but nope everyone wants to play D&D 5E, even if they don't really like it that much.

I know this is unrelated to wargaming, but when I saw this title, I thought of my personal experiences with a small indie game called world of horror. It's a "dead" game. The dev is solo and only updates it like once a year. Why do I still play it, every day for almost two years? despite the glitches that haven't been fixed for 8 months, or the non functional features that go nowhere, the esoteric knowledge that makes no sense. so why do I play "THAT" game? I don't know, I guess I just like it, it makes me happy.

Our wargaming group has been really enjoying playing BoltAction, but using Flames of War pieces. The smaller scale, using the same distances, really feels good for the vehicles and weapon ranges. Makes transports feel useful :P

Epic because it feels like the 40k in my head canon. BFG because spaceships. Gaslands because it's cheap and fast and fun.

There's so many aspects to every game that sometimes the sum of the parts outweigh the bits you hate. For example I hate the rules and setting of AoS but love the model asthetics and painting minis enough that I have heaps of painted AoS models but haven't played a game in 6 years. My gaming group wanted to play battle-company sized fantasy battles. The middle ground was to play Saga - Age of Magic. Similarly we loved the Mordheim lore and setting but the rules hadn't aged well. When we want gang size fantasy fights we use Warcry.

I play a variety of skirmish level games… Zona Alpha, This Is Not A Test, Stargrave, Reign In Hell, Space Weirdos, Gaslands… to name a few because each one has something I like. Plus they are inexpensive miniature agnostic games. I just cannot bring myself to play most 40K games. Too Expensive. I don’t like the rules for 40K either. However, I do like the models, so I buy some of them here and there and use them in other games (the cheaper box sets). While I’m not much for lore, our little gaming group does play Stargrave in the 40K universe (of sorts), substituting a system we like for one we don’t. Tossed the rules, kept the fluff, and then play what we want because it’s our game. Personally, I just find the smaller, miniature agnostic games to be more up my alley. I want nice, tight rules, a decent campaign system if we choose to go that way, and something I can hang my imagination on. Fluff is nice and all, but in all honesty I just need enough to give me a world I can make my own.

One huge revelation for me has been that I can use an adjusted ruleset but keep the lore -- namely onepagerules. It's such a relief to not need to dive into the rulebook every couple minutes when playing old warhammer fantasy, but we still consider the game to be firmly within old world lore

As I new player I felt so overwhelmed with age of sigmar and 40k I love all the models. But I hate that some models I like are sometimes not even usable. So I started to pick up some skirmish games. I started playing brutality it’s been fun so far and I can use any model I want.

TLDR: there are no table top war gaming cops (despite what GW says)

Being able to change the rules to suit our needs is what makes PnP RPGs, miniature games, etc. so great. Or rather that's one aspect.

Love the GW minis, love the lore, *haaaaaaaate* the rules for playing 40K and AoS as of late; having players put their models into specific army formations instead of letting them just take however many points they agree on, choosing relics and traits before the game instead of just always having them on your character's profile and majorly limiting some to specific units only, things that make planning the game longer than just setting up models and terrain - I wasn't even huge on the actual gaming part before, but now it feels like I'm personally just overwhelmed by things to remember outside of the actual playing, so it's got me falling back on the collecting and headcanon fluff for my armies side more than anything. I dunno, maybe that says more about me than the actual games, but if I'm gonna play another game, I'd prefer to just get my stuff on the table without any fuss and not have to plan an army around how many specific units I need for a viable formation.

Great content as always. I think your viewpoint is something thats developed after over a decade into the hobby. My group has been playing 40k since back in 2nd ed so we're all oldy moldies like you and its funny our group has also since gone the exact path as you. Nowadays we just mostly stick to OPR and use GW models with our own fluff. Your viewpoint is definitely one of someone who has already gone through peaks and vallies of so many other major systems and now you can handpick rules to fit your group's needs.

Yep, rules are a big thing for me. That’s why I love Fantasy Battles: 9th Age. Great rules with good balance. I can use any models I want including 3D printed. It’s the rank and flank fantasy army game I love.

For smaller scale games like Kill Team, homebrewing is the way to go

I think most people play A) what the other people play And B) what’s available locally Long time ago I had discussion with a Warhammer player who said: ”It would be really cool to play a WWII game, but they don’t exist.” Yes, they did exist, but this was before FoW hit big so they weren’t carried by the local shops and consequently none of the younger players even saw them. It takes a very special dedication to get multiple armies and arrange games for rules no one would otherwise play - this virtually unheard of on the fantasy/scifi side but more common in historicals.

I can definitely sympathize with this position. I have played a bunch of different rule sets, OPR, Bolt Action, all the GW stuff, Warmachine, and SW Legion. I always come back to 40k. It's a combination of all the things you mentioned. I like the rules. I like the models and I like the lore. I just haven't been able to invest in any other games because they are always missing something.

Warhammer Fantasy Battles was what got me into wargaming. I play it because I love the massed rank and file as well as the world's lore. I also play Burrows and Badgers because my wife loves cutesy animal people and the minis were what convinced her to give wargaming a try.

“Look at your game and see if it’s giving you some stress…”, that line says it all. I might get hate for this but, if a game is causing you stress, one should ask/remind themselves why they got into in the first place. If a “game”, something we spend what little spare precious time doing, is causing stress, take a step back and remember why you got into it to begin with.

Ah, inspiring as always. Your videos are always good food for thought. ❤️

I've gotten back into the hobby thanks to OPR. Less stupidity with the Dark Angels

For me, the lore of a game exists solely to explain why different models/factions do different things in the game. I stopped playing a game I really wanted to like, because every game devolved into side conversations about the lore, and how the war 300 years ago did this thing, which caused this other thing, which is why the version of the mech that we're _not_ actually playing today has an extra machine gun in the left butt cheek... I want the 60-second discussion of "this faction is all about high-tech stuff, because they're rich, and this other faction got stranded on a lost colony for 300 years before being rediscovered, so they're not into tech, but will rip you apart with their stone knives," and that's it.

We use homebrew rules all the time, but I'll play casual narrative games only because I found out this brings me the most joy

So true. Decide what you like, go with that and don't fret about what doesn't really matter to you. Makes for stress free hobby time.

Solo gaming for me - I can pick whatever I like, plenty of intelligent rulesets that provide a challenge (I still attend clubs and events mind you).,

Reminds me of when Decipher’s Star Wars CCG lost the license and then years later they tried to reboot using the rules/mechanics but with their new IP. The comment many players had was that it was playing the old game without the soul. Sometimes rules>IP, but doesn’t work like that all the time.

I've got a mound GW stuff including pre-painted miniatures. However, if I have enough money to afford all of that, I can certainly afford a $100 box of Mantic Firefight to do something else.

I wish GW would just let an edition hang around for a while and tweak the rules they have instead of the new edition/new codex cycle every 2-3 years. I love the setting and the models but I’m tired of that cycle.

I play 40k with my buddies (and a little Battletech on the side but that's beside the point). Rarely do I play with other people in the store, even if I know them and they're really nice. It's just that it's something I enjoy more when doing it with my friends. I really dig the lore and universe, I love the models and I'm ok with the rules. I've never played competitively but I'll say this about the rules: One of my buddies plays Chaos Space marines. Undivided. From all of the (probably dozens by now) games we've played, he's beaten me once. ONCE. And more often than not it's a wipe. We plan to start a campaign now that the new rules are dropping but boy, GW needs to do something about the codex creep. Either delay the newer editions by a LOT so all the codexes come out at once, then proceed with adjustments and FAQs when the data from the tournaments comes through or something else I don't know...

Very good video. It is not something people even want to think about or consider. Keep up the good work.

Why am I still playing that game? Because it's Gorkamorka and it's great fun.

I long ago lost interest in playing games where I don't enjoy the lore. I also lost interest in playing games where I don't like the rules, or the models, or whatever. I really don't see the point in doing things I don't enjoy if someone isn't paying me for my time. And I'm getting old enough to where even that is starting to not matter much at all. Time is short and I guess I don't see the point in having hobbies you don't like.

liked it. Also like trying to not think about the "sunk cost fallacy"!

I just like the models. That's reason enough for me. If I want to play a game I actually enjoy, I just play BattleTech, problem solved.

I tried Adeptus Titanicus for the first time today, absolutely LOVED it

They play hoping the “next” rules update makes their army good again.

I'm glad we're out and about again. I gotta say, I kinda miss the fezz. But your stuff is awesome (as are you) with or without the fezz. I'm just beginning to get into AOS - mostly because I love the Sylvaneth models. I'm learning more about the lore and that's cool. But GW already came out with a new General's Handbook before I could get the plastic wrap off my old one. It never dawned on me to use my minis with a different system. I don't know why. I never bought any Citadel paints. So why did I think I had to use their rules? Thanks for this. Hindsight is 20/20. I appreciate the advice!

I’m stuck in 15mm modern because I have a huge collection. When I play most of the big game company systems now, I immediately see how they will be suckering me into another huge collection with constant purchases and painting. Then I go back to my old systems.

Wise words indeed, I think the Germageddon of the last few years has been the biggest thing that's impacted me personally, had a few kickstarters and projects all ready to go at the start of the big lockdown, but without being able to play the motivation quickly vanished, now thats seemingly a done thing I've picked up some books for a couple of systems and am mulling them over but still playing the pre-plague times games

You're a really good way to introduce new people to our hobby and community

I am fortunate that I don’t have that issue because I don’t have any time to play a game. Just a bit of time here and there to paint and watch this channel.

Popularity: the network effect

Great video, as always.

One of my FAVORITE games is malifaux. Fluff is great (breachside broadcast is awesome) and the gameplay is pretty sweet. Too bad nobody near me plays.

Dude you're read "Eisenhorn" SO many times, haven't ya! 🤘 I'm 100 on your side...for me though, "Lore" (capital L) is a jump off for my "lore" for my guys. Rules- W A I T Y O U M E A N T H A T T H E R E' S A G A M E ?!?!?!!

I’ve come to realise that I don’t like war games, I just like Warhammer. It’s like how sometimes you just want a McDonald’s burger, even though there a more a million better burger options available. It’s completely illogical I know.

40k is king locally but I’m totally off it as it’s too complex and stressful for me. Now I’m pushing Titanicus on my friends. Great points dude as I love 40k setting

Perhaps this is mentioned in the comments below but I will admit to not reading through every last one... I'm still playing "that" game (in this case, Pathfinder) because that's what the majority of the folks in the gaming group want to play. I've tried to get them to try other systems, but so far, no luck. Just a stray thought. Thank you for this video. It did make me think about some things in a way I hadn't before.

I play Kings of war, Bolt action, and D&D. I love all 3 and would only change some minor things if I could. But otherwise they're all great!

Thank you for mentioning One Page Rules. I like the concept, that if you have any miniatures, you can play this game ;)

I play Warmaster Revolution, community has done wonders for it, updated rules that are good but not overly complex and independent 3d printers create the minis better than GW ever could at a price GW can't compete with.

Food for thought...indeed. I am focused on two games...AoE and Civ4. Way too much that my chess playing went southwards. Thank you for this video!

I think one of the bigger issues is the sunk cost. I've bought this army and spent all this time building and painting it...but now I'm stuck with the rules as written unless I find someone willing to overlook something.

I needed this video a lot.

My brother and I have been talking about experimenting with Bolt Action rules for our Imperial Guard vs Tau games. We typically run mostly infantry and 40k just doesn't really have much of a tactical feel when it comes to ordinary (non-space marine) dudes running around with guns.

I have purchased Kill Team models to paint, Necromunda models to throw into a Wreck Age-esk game, War Cry models for D&D, and I am yet to play an actual wargame, Lol

This is so me. I started painting a bit over a year ago. I don't collect any one faction. I build and paint whatever strikes my fancy. I would love to play Stargrave or Silver Bayonet, but looking on FB groups and Discord, all people want to play are 40K and 5E D&D, neither of which have any appeal to me. So I keep looking.

Warmaster is my perfect game, tight rules, “large battles” but in small scale, painting them is fun, printing them is cheap (and now loads of armies are stl’s now) ….with revolution there is a community run committee to keep the rules “alive” but for the sake of them and not selling figures….got a small group locally who plays and growing

i love thursday at midnight. thanks man

all of 6th ed 40k i played a version of 5th with a mate of mine because i couldn't spare money for the core rules at the time. currently with warhammer i haven't bought any of the current ed rules after buying the core book in 2020 because i've not been in a place where i can garantee i will get in games + i still feel burned by only getting 2 games in with my sisters of battle codex before it got rendered not current by gw releasing the next sisters codex a year later

Thank you thank you as always fantastic content the content getting people to play the game even if they change the rules to make it fun for them that's the point. they're games its supposed to be FUN. im ASOIAF & im hooked

Are you saying you use AoS models as proxies for the warcry clans? That's a pretty cool idea.

I came into war gaming early (about 11 years old) via Franco-Prussian war and Axis &allies. I was given and old first addition copy of the warhammer core rules. I was amazed at the models and already loved painting and modeling so it was kismet for me. But now, decades later I find myself in a world where my warhammer has died and I need a different game in the fantasy setting (that others actually play) and it would be nice if I could still use my skaven or undead miniatures in.... any suggestions? I love warhammer lore but good rules and models are most important to me. Oh! And opponents to play with.

I decided to focus only on one system. Not because of cost or lack of interest, but lack of time - and brainpower to memorize rules when i manage to play a game once a month tops

That's why I play Star Wars Legion. I enjoy everything about it. Minis, cost, theme, rules, community, etc

Actual conversation: 'If you don't like 40K then why do you play it?' 'I don't - I swapped to One Page Rules. So has my whole group.'

I play 40k mostly because it's the most popular. And even then, it's hard to get games in. I do enjoy the game and setting a lot though.

Another thing is figure scale: if I see a 28mm figure on the table, I can only envision it as representing a single person. Similarly with a vehicle - I can't envision one tank model=3 tanks or whatever. For me, there is only one scale for Napoleonics and that is 15mm, I don't think it works in any other scale.

Another interesting subject, thank you

Uncle WarCry ♥️

What’s put me off GW are the poorly written rules. There is too much ambiguity that can be very easily solved, writing the same type of rule in the same style to avoid ambiguity is not difficult but it seems to be beyond GWs ability. When I pay a lot of money and invest time then get the basics right. I really like gw fluff and most models but I can face the battle with the rules and the discussions the surround that.

Love your content Uncle Adam. Really, actually , really curious which One Page Rules army your viewers think would fit 40k imperial Guard

Mordheim is all you need.. :)

Great stuff friend 👏 👍

Lol watching this after you released space station zero, it makes sense now why your game has BYO-Minis and very lite lore that’s make your own

For me it's both the lore and models, chiefly the lore. Especially as 9th edition 40k has evolved, I play 40k in spite of the rules. Kill team on the other hand I really enjoy and play because of the rules. Playing kill team let's me play in the 40k setting, with models I like, using a ruleset I enjoy, so I would say its my "main game". It is a lot harder to find players for it than 40k though

Recently I've had this apfinny, I lost all love for 40k, for me it's just a poorly designed game, and I now that I have stopped, I'm so much happier playing stuff like conquest, marvel crisis, 30k, etc. Diversity really adds flavor to your wargaming experience

Gates of Antares is now an independent game. Created by Rick Priestley and the best system and community out there imo

I play just deadzone.it so simple and nice to teach.

I have a ton of Warhammer fantasy models and I have never ever played the game

I keep playing 40K cause I enjoy the models and its what gets me games consistently, I do it for the human interaction more than the game itself.

Dropping a comment because Tabletop Minions content makes me happy.

So the problem of popularity of games is it goes both ways - if you completely disregard that you’ll have a tough time finding a playgroup unless you and a friend went in together on it. I own miniature games where if I want to play them I need to call exactly one of two people because we tried it together and it’s basically nonexistent here. I’m trying to avoid repeating that mistake

Enjoy the game you play. yep, that's so easy. Good video. Hi from Ukraine

I think you can have different reasons for different games. For example, I love the models and lore for 40k. But I can't stand the rules (or the company's practices.) Meanwhile, I adore the rules for Infinity, but I largely ignore the lore. I used to play 40k, and I'm trying to resist the siren song of getting back in, and I typically play Infinity at least once a week. There is one issue, though, that I see repeated in these videos. The theme of "If you don't like the rules, just change them!" only works in a dedicated group of casual friends who all can agree on it. If you're looking for games at your LGS, or trying to go to a tournament, or what have you, you can't do that. You can't just roll up to a table with a person you just met and say "Well, I don't like this rule, so let's house rule it this way" and expect them to go for it. If you could, nobody would know how to play the game. Which means that if you don't have that dedicated garagehammer group, you don't have the luxury of tossing out rules you don't like. That's a large part of the reason I quit playing 40k. I didn't like the rules, and because all of my games are played with either LGS people or folks that actually adhere to the rules because they want to go to tournaments and stuff, I was stuck with them.

I also feel called out Uncle Adam...lol

Rules from Osprey Publishing (i.e Dragon Rampant and Frostgrave) has allowed me to get back to gaming. I’m a huge Citadel fan, but can’t deal with the modern GW ecosystem.

Now I understand why you guys make a big deal out of new editions, the new players will get that. The tournaments will use the new rules which would mean that you have to start your army all over. I never played a wargame I am just around for the chills. But it always confused me as a D&D player "Why do Wargames players make a big deal out of new editions?" Little did I know it's totally a different world out there. Thank you Adam for your content.

What do you do if you really love the rules of a game, but really don’t like the setting or models? I love the rules of WarmaHorde, but the armies and lore is really not to my taste. And i can’t really expect my opponent to not bring their figures. So i continue to play AoS as the rules are mostly OK but the lore and models are great!

GURPS... nuff said.